Should football be cancelled If too many players test positive for colds and flu?

[HelenaHandBasket]

I think people are missing the big picture. No one wants young adults to die or be sick, and the numbers tell us that young adults are pretty safe in the big picture. But the more of these young adults that become infected increases the chance of community spread to groups that are not as lucky. A large portion of people want to fallback to the death rate as being low, but with more infections, even a low death rate means more death. So this is less about a 21 year old that caught the virus playing football and more about where that same 21 year old could spread the virus. This is why a vaccine, even if it is only 15% effective, is important, because it is another measure that can be taken to help those that would be most effected, and that could mean the difference between life and death.

 

[WaGriz4life]

I think people are missing the big picture. No one wants young adults to die or be sick, and the numbers tell us that young adults are pretty safe in the big picture. But the more of these young adults that become infected increases the chance of community spread to groups that are not as lucky. A large portion of people want to fallback to the death rate as being low, but with more infections, even a low death rate means more death. So this is less about a 21 year old that caught the virus playing football and more about where that same 21 year old could spread the virus. This is why a vaccine, even if it is only 15% effective, is important, because it is another measure that can be taken to help those that would be most effected, and that could mean the difference between life and death.

Jury is still out on how infectious asymptomatic carriers are. People under 50 have a greater chance of dying driving to work then they do contracting COVID and dying from it. No data to support any lockdowns or restrictions now. Masks don’t work either, zero scientific data to support that they do. Surgeons wear masks so they don’t sneeze on patients, has nothing to do with breathing.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

I think people are missing the big picture. No one wants young adults to die or be sick, and the numbers tell us that young adults are pretty safe in the big picture. But the more of these young adults that become infected increases the chance of community spread to groups that are not as lucky. A large portion of people want to fallback to the death rate as being low, but with more infections, even a low death rate means more death. So this is less about a 21 year old that caught the virus playing football and more about where that same 21 year old could spread the virus. This is why a vaccine, even if it is only 15% effective, is important, because it is another measure that can be taken to help those that would be most effected, and that could mean the difference between life and death.

Jury is still out on how infectious asymptomatic carriers are. People under 50 have a greater chance of dying driving to work then they do contracting COVID and dying from it. No data to support any lockdowns or restrictions now. Masks don’t work either, zero scientific data to support that they do. Surgeons wear masks so they don’t sneeze on patients, has nothing to do with breathing.

Guess you have never heard the term "droplet precautions"? Or you never spit when talking. I am also sick and tired of the "more die from car accidents". It is a lame attempt to minimize something that isn't even similar.

 

[reinell30]

Why is it with the Virus, that people say you will get it if you gather in large groups? I mean, how does a football team contract the virus anymore by being together on the field then if they are alone at home. If you got the virus, don't go to the field. Don't go to practice. 55 guys in a locker room who do not have the virus will not all of a sudden become infected. Now if someone has the virus, well like I said, stay away.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Why is it with the Virus, that people say you will get it if you gather in large groups? I mean, how does a football team contract the virus anymore by being together on the field then if they are alone at home. If you got the virus, don't go to the field. Don't go to practice. 55 guys in a locker room who do not have the virus will not all of a sudden become infected. Now if someone has the virus, well like I said, stay away.

When a person is asymptomatic, they might not know. This is why the testing will be very important, but testing is far from 100%.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

This is hogwash....but speculate away.

According to Dr. Michael Osterholm, the infectious disease expert and advisor to all the presidents after Reagen until Trump, how they test the effectiveness of the flu vaccine is very flawed. The real number is it only works about 15% of the time on a good year. 5% on a normal year.

A vaccine is not going to save us, and we aren’t getting one anytime soon.

I knew this pathetic effectiveness but just wanted to see which knee-jerk reactionist responded first when using the CDC's estimated numbers. Overall the flu vaccines prevent panic, but really not disease. We have a damn flu "season" every year, for "rice" sakes!

 

[ilovethecats]

Jury is still out on how infectious asymptomatic carriers are. People under 50 have a greater chance of dying driving to work then they do contracting COVID and dying from it. No data to support any lockdowns or restrictions now. Masks don’t work either, zero scientific data to support that they do. Surgeons wear masks so they don’t sneeze on patients, has nothing to do with breathing.

Guess you have never heard the term "droplet precautions"? Or you never spit when talking. I am also sick and tired of the "more die from car accidents". It is a lame attempt to minimize something that isn't even similar.

And people such as myself are also sick and tired of acting like bringing up other forms of death is so out of bounds in this discussion. I'm not minimizing anything. Lives are lives. But the truth is that more people WILL die on highways this year than covid. Just like every year. Just like more will die from a plethora of reasons than they will codid. Why is that so taboo? If we're minimizing it by comparing covid deaths to others, aren't you on your side maximizing the importance of these deaths?

Lives are lives my friend. In a perfect world no one would die ever, from anything. That's not happening. So when people die, from anything, it's a loss. Why do we need to pretend that these covid circumstances are any more dire than people fighting for their lives because of anything else?

 

[Copper Griz]

According to Dr. Michael Osterholm, the infectious disease expert and advisor to all the presidents after Reagen until Trump, how they test the effectiveness of the flu vaccine is very flawed. The real number is it only works about 15% of the time on a good year. 5% on a normal year.

A vaccine is not going to save us, and we aren’t getting one anytime soon.

I knew this pathetic effectiveness but just wanted to see which knee-jerk reactionist responded first when using the CDC's estimated numbers. Overall the flu vaccines prevent panic, but really not disease. We have a damn flu "season" every year, for "rice" sakes!

Tell that to the hospital administrators in New York City or the people operating the morgues. Flu vaccine prevents the situation that happened this year with Covid. You are way off with minimizing this.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Guess you have never heard the term "droplet precautions"? Or you never spit when talking. I am also sick and tired of the "more die from car accidents". It is a lame attempt to minimize something that isn't even similar.

And people such as myself are also sick and tired of acting like bringing up other forms of death is so out of bounds in this discussion. I'm not minimizing anything. Lives are lives. But the truth is that more people WILL die on highways this year than covid. Just like every year. Just like more will die from a plethora of reasons than they will codid. Why is that so taboo? If we're minimizing it by comparing covid deaths to others, aren't you on your side maximizing the importance of these deaths?

Lives are lives my friend. In a perfect world no one would die ever, from anything. That's not happening. So when people die, from anything, it's a loss. Why do we need to pretend that these covid circumstances are any more dire than people fighting for their lives because of anything else?

How do you prevent or minimize highways deaths? Now, how do you prevent or minimize deaths from the normal flu? Now, how do you prevent or minimize deaths from Coronavirus?

 

[ilovethecats]

And people such as myself are also sick and tired of acting like bringing up other forms of death is so out of bounds in this discussion. I'm not minimizing anything. Lives are lives. But the truth is that more people WILL die on highways this year than covid. Just like every year. Just like more will die from a plethora of reasons than they will codid. Why is that so taboo? If we're minimizing it by comparing covid deaths to others, aren't you on your side maximizing the importance of these deaths?

Lives are lives my friend. In a perfect world no one would die ever, from anything. That's not happening. So when people die, from anything, it's a loss. Why do we need to pretend that these covid circumstances are any more dire than people fighting for their lives because of anything else?

How do you prevent or minimize highways deaths? Now, how do you prevent or minimize deaths from the normal flu? Now, how do you prevent or minimize deaths from Coronavirus?

I guess I don't see what you're asking? But I guess I can take a stab at it. We took extreme measures to prevent covid deaths, would you not agree? Completely shutting down the economy and schools? Requiring masks in many areas? So I think I could find lots of ways to minimize other deaths if it's really just for the sake of saving lives.

Don't give out licenses until people are 25 or older. Make the testing for driving way more intense. Require everyone renew licenses every year. Put a cap on how many vehicles can be on certain highways at once. Have multiple checkpoints on all highways to ensure no one is driving impaired. Be WAY more strict on drunk driving offenses. Throw the book at them. Put curfews on night driving. I'm sure there are way more.

For the regular flu, we could start with what we're doing right now. Require every person to wear masks everywhere they go. No exceptions. This will save thousands of lives every year. basically, follow the exact same measures we have for covid and I think it would minimize deaths from the regular flu.

I don't know that you'd find anyone who would dispute that masks, closures, social distancing, etc. will save lives. That is ALWAYS the case. Hell, we could really get wild and enforce mandatory lockdowns all the time and require all kids to school at home and probably save millions. Why stop at just this virus if it's really just the older lives we're trying to protect?

 

[fanofzoo]

Maybe you might have heard of this saying " the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

I've asked others this as well, but based on some of your comments you appear to be a perfect person to ask as well. Will you be wearing masks from here on out? For the rest of your life regardless of when this particular virus ends? Because it's proven that masks will ALWAYS play a part in saving lives. Or is it just this one virus in which people are selfish if they don't wear them? If it's REALLY about doing what is best for others, and REALLY about saving lives, then all of the people grandstanding about masks all of a sudden in 2020 should be more than happy to wear them forever.

Gone when the CDC or a vaccine comes out. I will do my part to slow the spread, other people not so much.

 

[fanofzoo]

Maybe you might have heard of this saying " the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

99% of people will NOT die from this virus so obviously they are the "many" you speak of which means their need to work and function in society is greater than the 1% right to stay alive.... Yet I think you were trying to make the opposite point so hmm... Besides which, I actually said (later in the same paragraph) that one's actions can have consequences for others so we should all be considerate in specific ways such as self quarantining when sick.

Good but what happens between the time you get it and the time you get sick.

 

[ilovethecats]

I've asked others this as well, but based on some of your comments you appear to be a perfect person to ask as well. Will you be wearing masks from here on out? For the rest of your life regardless of when this particular virus ends? Because it's proven that masks will ALWAYS play a part in saving lives. Or is it just this one virus in which people are selfish if they don't wear them? If it's REALLY about doing what is best for others, and REALLY about saving lives, then all of the people grandstanding about masks all of a sudden in 2020 should be more than happy to wear them forever.

Gone when the CDC or a vaccine comes out. I will do my part to slow the spread, other people not so much.

You're saying your mask will be gone when a vaccine comes out? What about all the lives you could help save by ALWAYS wearing a mask?

I think others ARE doing their part by missing the last 3 months of school. Or not working for months. Or missing their graduations or proms. Or by not attending the funeral of a loved one. Or by putting off medical procedures because they weren't available or because there weren't enough doctors to preform them. Or by skipping all family events. Or not going into the delivery room when their child was born because it wasn't permitted. Or business owners giving staff bonuses and raises because their staff was forced to stop working. Or landlords forgiving back rent because their tenants had no way to pay. Or maintaining appropriate distance from others because of common courtesy. Or working day in and day out, subjecting yourself to illness because you work in an essential business. Unless you found a way to get your essentials delivered by robots, you're doing just as much to put others in harm as anyone else.

Lets stop pretending that the simple act of wearing a mask is the be all end all of selflessness in this ordeal. Many people are doing their part, regardless of their feelings about it.

 

[fanofzoo]

Gone when the CDC or a vaccine comes out. I will do my part to slow the spread, other people not so much.

You're saying your mask will be gone when a vaccine comes out? What about all the lives you could help save by ALWAYS wearing a mask?

I think others ARE doing their part by missing the last 3 months of school. Or not working for months. Or missing their graduations or proms. Or by not attending the funeral of a loved one. Or by putting off medical procedures because they weren't available or because there weren't enough doctors to preform them. Or by skipping all family events. Or not going into the delivery room when their child was born because it wasn't permitted. Or business owners giving staff bonuses and raises because their staff was forced to stop working. Or landlords forgiving back rent because their tenants had no way to pay. Or maintaining appropriate distance from others because of common courtesy. Or working day in and day out, subjecting yourself to illness because you work in an essential business. Unless you found a way to get your essentials delivered by robots, you're doing just as much to put others in harm as anyone else.

Lets stop pretending that the simple act of wearing a mask is the be all end all of selflessness in this ordeal. Many people are doing their part, regardless of their feelings about it.

Who said it was an end all, simply wearing one says you care about other people but you are free do what ever.

 

[ilovethecats]

You're saying your mask will be gone when a vaccine comes out? What about all the lives you could help save by ALWAYS wearing a mask?

I think others ARE doing their part by missing the last 3 months of school. Or not working for months. Or missing their graduations or proms. Or by not attending the funeral of a loved one. Or by putting off medical procedures because they weren't available or because there weren't enough doctors to preform them. Or by skipping all family events. Or not going into the delivery room when their child was born because it wasn't permitted. Or business owners giving staff bonuses and raises because their staff was forced to stop working. Or landlords forgiving back rent because their tenants had no way to pay. Or maintaining appropriate distance from others because of common courtesy. Or working day in and day out, subjecting yourself to illness because you work in an essential business. Unless you found a way to get your essentials delivered by robots, you're doing just as much to put others in harm as anyone else.

Lets stop pretending that the simple act of wearing a mask is the be all end all of selflessness in this ordeal. Many people are doing their part, regardless of their feelings about it.

Who said it was an end all, simply wearing one says you care about other people but you are free do what ever.

And I appreciate that take. Allowing people to do whatever they want is good sometimes.

My point is that if wearing one says you care about other people, than not wearing one all the time must mean that you don't care about other people. I don't personally agree with that, but that's the only way I can wrap my head around interpreting it. Because wearing masks will ALWAYS contribute to saving lives. No matter what. No matter when. Not just with this one, very specific virus that we are currently dealing with.

But I'm in agreement with you. You're not comfortable right now and don't plan to attend games. Totally your choice and hopefully you remain safe.

 

[fanofzoo]

Who said it was an end all, simply wearing one says you care about other people but you are free do what ever.

And I appreciate that take. Allowing people to do whatever they want is good sometimes.

My point is that if wearing one says you care about other people, than not wearing one all the time must mean that you don't care about other people. I don't personally agree with that, but that's the only way I can wrap my head around interpreting it. Because wearing masks will ALWAYS contribute to saving lives. No matter what. No matter when. Not just with this one, very specific virus that we are currently dealing with.

But I'm in agreement with you. You're not comfortable right now and don't plan to attend games. Totally your choice and hopefully you remain safe.

Go GRIZ

 

[ilovethecats]

And I appreciate that take. Allowing people to do whatever they want is good sometimes.

My point is that if wearing one says you care about other people, than not wearing one all the time must mean that you don't care about other people. I don't personally agree with that, but that's the only way I can wrap my head around interpreting it. Because wearing masks will ALWAYS contribute to saving lives. No matter what. No matter when. Not just with this one, very specific virus that we are currently dealing with.

But I'm in agreement with you. You're not comfortable right now and don't plan to attend games. Totally your choice and hopefully you remain safe.

Go GRIZ

:lol: :thumb:

 

[WaGriz4life]

We have 17 hospitalizations in the whole state right now. That doesn’t alarm me at all.

 

[MikeyGriz]

And neither are the number of positives vs. the number of tests being performed.

The percentage of positives has meaning, but the raw numbers can be misleading.

Agreed, but they are not mutually exclusive. I also think the number of deaths number is misleading.

 

[MikeyGriz]

I don’t have an answer, but I don’t make light of a situation where people are on their death bed. If your family member was fighting for their life some of you might not have such cavalier attitudes.

I don't disagree with this at all. And while some may not be taking this seriously at all, I don't think that is the case with everyone. At least not me. I don't deny the virus is out there. I don't deny if you're older or have health issues it could be scarier than it is for me. But the stats are the stats. You're very unlikely to get this thing. You're very unlikely to be hospitalized if you do. And you're even less likely to die. And of those tiny numbers, as of yesterday the death rates are this:

younger than 35 - 0.8%
35-44 - 1.7%
45-54 - 4.8%
55-64 - 12%
65-74 - 20.8%
75-84 - 26.8%
older than 85 - 33.1%

So you have to see why many people just aren't so sure that shutting down the economy and closing schools was so wise. Why people putting off medical procedures wasn't a good thing. Why having to spend trillions of dollars like it's Monopoly money could really hurt us. It's why some, myself included, feel the cure may be worse than the cause?

I totally agree that if you had a family member fighting for their life you'd have a different attitude. Or at least a different experience. My point is that isn't this how it should be with every life, all of the time? If you had a daughter pass away and weren't allowed to have a funeral for her because it was "against the rules" would that change your perspective at all? How about when you weren't allowed to have a funeral but you saw rallies and parades? Or you couldn't have a funeral but there was a line wrapped around Walmart because that was deemed "essential" while your daughters life was not?

How about if you lost a brother or father to suicide? Would that not change your views on mental health? Or at least make you more aware of mental health issues than maybe you were previously? It might make you advocate for changes in mental healthcare. Would that make those that didn't lose a family member to suicide more selfish than you? I don't think so.

I don't have an issue with people being fearful of this virus. What I don't appreciate is being told I'm selfish or that I have no clue just how scary this virus is because I'm not as afraid of others. If you're afraid of getting this virus, by all means do everything in your power to avoid this virus. Don't go out, unless absolutely necessary. Definitely don't go to events like a football game. But why the need to tell me I should feel the same way? If you wear a mask and don't go out, you'll likely not be effected. If I go out all over the place and never wear a mask, I'll only effect those who decide to be in contact with me. The only way they'll do that is if they're going out!

Sometimes I just feel like people are talking about two completely different issues regarding this topic. And most likely not to change their minds. But I think the name calling and finger pointing when someone doesn't agree with your personal take isn't helping. Not you specifically, but just everyone. It's obviously one of the biggest topics of our lives though so I get it.

Would you stop posting sensible rants like this? It makes it hard to get a good night's sleep when you agree with a cat fan!