Question regarding Fall Schedule

[PlayerRep]

I don't think people without proof of the vaccine should be allowed in stadiums and arenas.

Don’t be that guy.

Show me ze papers!!!!

UM needs to figure out a way to get a significant number of fans in the stadium, and to keep them there.

What's safe? What will the county health department allow? What will attract more fans?

What will withstand the test of time over the season? Obviously, a break out of covid cases from a game would cause the fans to get reduced or shut out for future games.

Only some people have gotten the vaccines. Not the middle aged or younger crowd yet. The vaccines are very protective against bad covid, hospitalization or death, amongst the people who got the shots. It's not yet known whether vaccinated people with mild cases or who are asymptomatic can transit the covid to others. Studies are being done now, and this should be known in a few months.

Should older more vulnerable people, without shots, be allowed in, and allowed to mingle? I say they should be strongly encouraged to get a shot. At this point, some people aren't eligible yet.

To me, at this point, the shots are like speed limits, seatbelts, motorcycle helmets, dui laws, etc. They protect the person, speed limits and dui laws protect others, and they all decrease the costs of healthcare, law enforcement, etc.

Perhaps the stadium should be divided between people who's had the vaccine, on one side, and people who haven't on the other side.

As more vaccines are administered, and the US and MT get closer to herd immunity, this analysis will keep evolving.

My initial view, which was partly serious and party not, was geared more to the current situation. By fall, perhaps the covid will be largely gone or controlled and the situation will be different.

Also, I didn't address masking up at games. That's another discussion.

In addition, MT's and Missoula county's rules on crowd size will come into play.

 

[tourist]

:lol: If I made the rules, I'd allocate a small number of seats in the South End Zone, for the fraidy cats and fill the rest of WGS to the max, No masks allowed. And, for those that don't like it, enact more restrictions on people for, say political affiliation, or other such freedom crushing reasons.

In your initial quote, you clearly advocated Internal Passports. "Your papers, please." You can see what Missoula County has done. Handful of petty pissant low level bureaucrats controlling the lives 100,000+ people. Willing to give up that control? No. Would residents of Phillips County put up with that. No. Health Dept. or county officials would be found out in a ditch somewhere.

This started across this country as a way to 'flatten the curve' of hospital admissions, early last spring. Look what this has evolved into. Whole damn country on the brink of ruin. People out of work, alcohol and drug abuse at all time highs. Let's not forget suicides, depression, and the effect of kids on remote learning.

This has morphed into a gigantic power grab by the looney left. Red China calls it's latest power grab 'Social Credit' system. Control, all about control. Wake up, Sheeple.

 

[ilovethecats]

:lol: If I made the rules, I'd allocate a small number of seats in the South End Zone, for the fraidy cats and fill the rest of WGS to the max, No masks allowed. And, for those that don't like it, enact more restrictions on people for, say political affiliation, or other such freedom crushing reasons.

In your initial quote, you clearly advocated Internal Passports. "Your papers, please." You can see what Missoula County has done. Handful of petty pissant low level bureaucrats controlling the lives 100,000+ people. Willing to give up that control? No. Would residents of Phillips County put up with that. No. Health Dept. or county officials would be found out in a ditch somewhere.

This started across this country as a way to 'flatten the curve' of hospital admissions, early last spring. Look what this has evolved into. Whole damn country on the brink of ruin. People out of work, alcohol and drug abuse at all time highs. Let's not forget suicides, depression, and the effect of kids on remote learning.

This has morphed into a gigantic power grab by the looney left. Red China calls it's latest power grab 'Social Credit' system. Control, all about control. Wake up, Sheeple.

I'm with you.

Remember in the beginning it was to save lives. Millions of Americans could die if we don't lock down. It's about saving lives. Respect for your neighbor!

Then as the numbers became clearer some of us we like, isn't it like a tiny percent of people dying? And of those aren't they the older and vulnerable and those with existing conditions? All of a sudden we were told, "It's not just about the deaths!". Of course not. We were told it was so we didn't overwhelm hospitals. Deaths were just part of the factor. Not overwhelming hospitals was most important.

Did some hospitals in hot spots struggle at times? Sure they did. Are they still being overrun now? Not to my knowledge. So if it's not the deaths. And it's not the hospitals. And it's a virus as of yesterday 92% of people tested in the US were negative. And of those less than 2% die.....what are we doing? Why aren't my kids going to school every day?

I'm sure Faucci and others will go back and forth a few more times, but as of last week they said by early summer the vaccine should be available to every single person in the country. Why on earth, more than SIX months from now, with vaccines available to anyone who wants one, fighting a virus you have a 9/10 chance of NEVER getting, would we still have limitations on football games amongst other things?!

I think those that rushed the capital building were idiots. But if come September my kids are still being fucked over, and I can't watch my Cats on Saturdays like normal, I may consider rioting....

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I don't know the science, because I think I'm the only remaining person in the US who didn't become an expert scientist/physician in the last 12 months. I do know, however, that I will never trust a man who does this:

Unacceptable. I stopped listening to him after that, and I'm not even kidding.

 

[ilovethecats]

I don't know the science, because I think I'm the only remaining person in the US who didn't become an expert scientist/physician in the last 12 months. I do know, however, that I will never trust a man who does this:

Unacceptable. I stopped listening to him after that, and I'm not even kidding.

This is a reasonable take

 

[MikeyGriz]

I'm sure Faucci and others will go back and forth a few more times, but as of last week they said by early summer the vaccine should be available to every single person in the country. Why on earth, more than SIX months from now, with vaccines available to anyone who wants one, fighting a virus you have a 9/10 chance of NEVER getting, would we still have limitations on football games amongst other things?!

I think those that rushed the capital building were idiots. But if come September my kids are still being f###[#] over, and I can't watch my Cats on Saturdays like normal, I may consider rioting....

And 98+/100 chance of not dying from!

 

[tourist]

:lol: If I made the rules, I'd allocate a small number of seats in the South End Zone, for the fraidy cats and fill the rest of WGS to the max, No masks allowed. And, for those that don't like it, enact more restrictions on people for, say political affiliation, or other such freedom crushing reasons.

In your initial quote, you clearly advocated Internal Passports. "Your papers, please." You can see what Missoula County has done. Handful of petty pissant low level bureaucrats controlling the lives 100,000+ people. Willing to give up that control? No. Would residents of Phillips County put up with that. No. Health Dept. or county officials would be found out in a ditch somewhere.

This started across this country as a way to 'flatten the curve' of hospital admissions, early last spring. Look what this has evolved into. Whole damn country on the brink of ruin. People out of work, alcohol and drug abuse at all time highs. Let's not forget suicides, depression, and the effect of kids on remote learning.

This has morphed into a gigantic power grab by the looney left. Red China calls it's latest power grab 'Social Credit' system. Control, all about control. Wake up, Sheeple.

I'm with you.

Remember in the beginning it was to save lives. Millions of Americans could die if we don't lock down. It's about saving lives. Respect for your neighbor!

Then as the numbers became clearer some of us we like, isn't it like a tiny percent of people dying? And of those aren't they the older and vulnerable and those with existing conditions? All of a sudden we were told, "It's not just about the deaths!". Of course not. We were told it was so we didn't overwhelm hospitals. Deaths were just part of the factor. Not overwhelming hospitals was most important.

Did some hospitals in hot spots struggle at times? Sure they did. Are they still being overrun now? Not to my knowledge. So if it's not the deaths. And it's not the hospitals. And it's a virus as of yesterday 92% of people tested in the US were negative. And of those less than 2% die.....what are we doing? Why aren't my kids going to school every day?

I'm sure Faucci and others will go back and forth a few more times, but as of last week they said by early summer the vaccine should be available to every single person in the country. Why on earth, more than SIX months from now, with vaccines available to anyone who wants one, fighting a virus you have a 9/10 chance of NEVER getting, would we still have limitations on football games amongst other things?!

I think those that rushed the capital building were idiots. But if come September my kids are still being f###[#] over, and I can't watch my Cats on Saturdays like normal, I may consider rioting....

As this is a football forum, let me inject this football qualifier: the goal posts keep getting moved, so they NEVER get reached.
That f*cking Fauci is a flip flopping fool tool. Makes $400,000+ per year for his revered experience and advice. His true colors came shining through, he is a swamp creature like all the rest, and will do as he is told, to preserve his, and their, positions of power. To hell with everyone else. Fauci has done a 180 degree turn, from no need for those silly damn masks or shutdowns, to DOUBLE masks and shutdowns forever. Lots of people need to be fired over this shit, #1 being Fauci. The Washington, DC REAL riot can wait a while. IF needed, local riots may be first, starting at the Missoula County Health Dept. if they don't end their shit now.

 

[ilovethecats]

As this is a football forum, let me inject this football qualifier: the goal posts keep getting moved, so they NEVER get reached.
That f*cking Fauci is a flip flopping fool tool. Makes $400,000+ per year for his revered experience and advice. His true colors came shining through, he is a swamp creature like all the rest, and will do as he is told, to preserve his, and their, positions of power. To hell with everyone else. Fauci has done a 180 degree turn, from no need for those silly damn masks or shutdowns, to DOUBLE masks and shutdowns forever. Lots of people need to be fired over this shit, #1 being Fauci. The Washington, DC REAL riot can wait a while. IF needed, local riots may be first, starting at the Missoula County Health Dept. if they don't end their shit now.

To be fair, I don't put much of the blame on Faucci. He's a scientist and the virus is science. Ever-changing. I get that. I think he's made some mistakes, far from perfect, and more or less relaying the info as it stands at that time. I can make peace with that.

I don't even fully fault our local health officials as they are basically doing the same thing. Though I haven't agreed with many of the steps as they don't always seem to make sense.

My issue is more the numbers themselves, and what the hell are we waiting for to get back to normal. The stats are what they are. In Montana we've conducted 1,052,733 tests. Of those, 99,040 were positive cases. This is just a hair over 9%. So if you get tested, you are more than 90% likely to not be positive! Currently we have less than 2,000 active cases in the entire state. That's .18% of our population. Sadly, 1,346 Montanans have died with Covid. That is .13% of our population. Barely one tenth of one percent of our population have succumbed with Covid.

So my question has always been, what number are we looking for?! What is safe? If those crazy lower numbers aren't deemed safe enough to resume normal activity....what is? When are we going to allow people to get their lives back? When are we going to stop restricting businesses? When are we going to stop stifling our kids educations? How about masks? If it's not safe to go without masks now when 91% of our state has never had the virus over the last year; what number is safe?

This doesn't even touch on the vaccines available. If they work like they say, and we're fighting a disease we already beat 91% of the time, for the life of me I can't wrap my head around why we couldn't have full football stadiums six months from now. Wowsa. :roll:

 

[MikeyGriz]

As this is a football forum, let me inject this football qualifier: the goal posts keep getting moved, so they NEVER get reached.
That f*cking Fauci is a flip flopping fool tool. Makes $400,000+ per year for his revered experience and advice. His true colors came shining through, he is a swamp creature like all the rest, and will do as he is told, to preserve his, and their, positions of power. To hell with everyone else. Fauci has done a 180 degree turn, from no need for those silly damn masks or shutdowns, to DOUBLE masks and shutdowns forever. Lots of people need to be fired over this shit, #1 being Fauci. The Washington, DC REAL riot can wait a while. IF needed, local riots may be first, starting at the Missoula County Health Dept. if they don't end their shit now.

To be fair, I don't put much of the blame on Faucci. He's a scientist and the virus is science. Ever-changing. I get that. I think he's made some mistakes, far from perfect, and more or less relaying the info as it stands at that time. I can make peace with that.

I don't even fully fault our local health officials as they are basically doing the same thing. Though I haven't agreed with many of the steps as they don't always seem to make sense.

My issue is more the numbers themselves, and what the hell are we waiting for to get back to normal. The stats are what they are. In Montana we've conducted 1,052,733 tests. Of those, 99,040 were positive cases. This is just a hair over 9%. So if you get tested, you are more than 90% likely to not be positive! Currently we have less than 2,000 active cases in the entire state. That's .18% of our population. Sadly, 1,346 Montanans have died with Covid. That is .13% of our population. Barely one tenth of one percent of our population have succumbed with Covid.

So my question has always been, what number are we looking for?! What is safe? If those crazy lower numbers aren't deemed safe enough to resume normal activity....what is? When are we going to allow people to get their lives back? When are we going to stop restricting businesses? When are we going to stop stifling our kids educations? How about masks? If it's not safe to go without masks now when 91% of our state has never had the virus over the last year; what number is safe?

This doesn't even touch on the vaccines available. If they work like they say, and we're fighting a disease we already beat 91% of the time, for the life of me I can't wrap my head around why we couldn't have full football stadiums six months from now. Wowsa. :roll:

And remember, that those tested were either symptomatic our supposedly exposed to the virus. Joe public couldn't just walk in to get tested if they so desired.

I'm with you, what numbers are the magic that will allow us to go back to the old "normal"?

 

[PlayerRep]

I don't think people without proof of the vaccine should be allowed in stadiums and arenas.

Don’t be that guy.

Show me ze papers!!!!

Shot records are required for kids to attend schools, subject to certain exceptions, like religions, in some states.

Shot records are required to get kids into man daycares.

Shot records are required to get pets into many pet babysitters.

Shots are required to enter, or maybe return from, certain countries. I think.

 

[ilovethecats]

To be fair, I don't put much of the blame on Faucci. He's a scientist and the virus is science. Ever-changing. I get that. I think he's made some mistakes, far from perfect, and more or less relaying the info as it stands at that time. I can make peace with that.

I don't even fully fault our local health officials as they are basically doing the same thing. Though I haven't agreed with many of the steps as they don't always seem to make sense.

My issue is more the numbers themselves, and what the hell are we waiting for to get back to normal. The stats are what they are. In Montana we've conducted 1,052,733 tests. Of those, 99,040 were positive cases. This is just a hair over 9%. So if you get tested, you are more than 90% likely to not be positive! Currently we have less than 2,000 active cases in the entire state. That's .18% of our population. Sadly, 1,346 Montanans have died with Covid. That is .13% of our population. Barely one tenth of one percent of our population have succumbed with Covid.

So my question has always been, what number are we looking for?! What is safe? If those crazy lower numbers aren't deemed safe enough to resume normal activity....what is? When are we going to allow people to get their lives back? When are we going to stop restricting businesses? When are we going to stop stifling our kids educations? How about masks? If it's not safe to go without masks now when 91% of our state has never had the virus over the last year; what number is safe?

This doesn't even touch on the vaccines available. If they work like they say, and we're fighting a disease we already beat 91% of the time, for the life of me I can't wrap my head around why we couldn't have full football stadiums six months from now. Wowsa. :roll:

And remember, that those tested were either symptomatic our supposedly exposed to the virus. Joe public couldn't just walk in to get tested if they so desired.

I'm with you, what numbers are the magic that will allow us to go back to the old "normal"?

Exactly.

And on the flipside, let's say there was way more people who had the virus that never got tested. They were just wandering around willy nilly. Doesn't that just make the hospitalization and death numbers even smaller than the fraction of a percent they currently show?

I know MSU is planning on going ahead like this fall will be a regular season. I can't speak to where they'll land on masks, but I know they are planning on regular capacity with season ticket holders in their regular seats. And my understanding (without direct knowledge) is that they're willing to fight whoever they have to to make this a reality.

I'm currently CAUTIOUSLY optimistic. :thumb:

 

[tourist]

These 'experts' problem is they have changed their story so many times they are beyond belief. Why would I trust anything any of them now say?

Prokofiev put to music in 'Peter and the Wolf.'

 

[alabamagrizzly]

Don’t be that guy.

Show me ze papers!!!!

Shot records are required for kids to attend schools, subject to certain exceptions, like religions, in some states.

Shot records are required to get kids into man daycares.

Shot records are required to get pets into many pet babysitters.

Shots are required to enter, or maybe return from, certain countries. I think.

Answer me this please. Are the vaccinated not safe from the unvaccinated?

 

[PlayerRep]

These 'experts' problem is they have changed their story so many times they are beyond belief. Why would I trust anything any of the now say?

Prokofiev put to music in 'Peter and the Wolf.'

I agree with you, but note that knowledge regarding the virus also changed over time and as more research was done and more data was gained. That explains some of the seeming flip flops.

 

[PlayerRep]

Shot records are required for kids to attend schools, subject to certain exceptions, like religions, in some states.

Shot records are required to get kids into man daycares.

Shot records are required to get pets into many pet babysitters.

Shots are required to enter, or maybe return from, certain countries. I think.

Answer me this please. Are the vaccinated not safe from the unvaccinated?

Yes, but only to the extent the vaccine is effective. The so-called “efficacy” rates vary. Moderna and Pfizer were up around 95% in their early studies, which were before the several new emerging and troublesome variants. Johnson & Johnson, approved today in US, is around 65%. AstraZeneca, not yet approved in US, was about 70% in its earlier studies. All have been very effective against serious illness, hospitalization and death.

 

[alabamagrizzly]

Answer me this please. Are the vaccinated not safe from the unvaccinated?

Yes, but only to the extent the vaccine is effective. The so-called “efficacy” rates vary. Moderna and Pfizer were up around 95% in their early studies, which were before the several new emerging and troublesome variants. Johnson & Johnson, approved today in US, is around 65%. AstraZeneca, not yet approved in US, was about 70% in its earlier studies. All have been very effective against serious illness, hospitalization and death.

Except when the vaccine has caused the death. Almost a 1,000 to date. Sure that’s under a .2% death rate vs a less then 1% death rate from covid itself. That’s if you believe they’ve been 100% honest with the cause of death. And as you say, the vaccines can’t keep up with the variations anyway, much like the flu which isn’t, and never will be controlled. The CDC itself says the country only needs a 75% vaccination rate to keep any virus at bay. That means 25% of us should be allowed to have the freedom of choice on not injecting toxins into our body if we do choose not to. To bar people from public events w/out proof of vaccines is a ridiculous stance. As for schools and stuff, there are easy loopholes around those which we are currently exercising with our own daughter.

 

[PlayerRep]

Yes, but only to the extent the vaccine is effective. The so-called “efficacy” rates vary. Moderna and Pfizer were up around 95% in their early studies, which were before the several new emerging and troublesome variants. Johnson & Johnson, approved today in US, is around 65%. AstraZeneca, not yet approved in US, was about 70% in its earlier studies. All have been very effective against serious illness, hospitalization and death.

Except when the vaccine has caused the death. Almost a 1,000 to date. Sure that’s under a .2% death rate vs a less then 1% death rate from covid itself. That’s if you believe they’ve been 100% honest with the cause of death. And as you say, the vaccines can’t keep up with the variations anyway, much like the flu which isn’t, and never will be controlled. The CDC itself says the country only needs a 75% vaccination rate to keep any virus at bay. That means 25% of us should be allowed to have the freedom of choice on not injecting toxins into our body if we do choose not to. To bar people from public events w/out proof of vaccines is a ridiculous stance. As for schools and stuff, there are easy loopholes around those which we are currently exercising with our own daughter.

I don't think the leading US vaccines have caused any deaths. Feel free to provide your links to the contrary.

 

[MikeyGriz]

Don’t be that guy.

Show me ze papers!!!!

Shot records are required for kids to attend schools, subject to certain exceptions, like religions, in some states.
What if I've already been infected? Don't need the shot.

Shot records are required to get kids into man daycares.
Same as above, plus only applies to state licensed and regulated daycares.

Shot records are required to get pets into many pet babysitters.
Who cares ? Doesn't apply, or what else do you want to follow that pet babysitters do?

Shots are required to enter, or maybe return from, certain countries. I think.
Other countries don't allow many freedom of choices that we do.

Measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc. vs covid. Difference between bacterial vs viral.

 

[PlayerRep]

Shot records are required for kids to attend schools, subject to certain exceptions, like religions, in some states.
What if I've already been infected? Don't need the shot.

Shot records are required to get kids into man daycares.
Same as above, plus only applies to state licensed and regulated daycares.

Shot records are required to get pets into many pet babysitters.
Who cares ? Doesn't apply, or what else do you want to follow that pet babysitters do?

Shots are required to enter, or maybe return from, certain countries. I think.
Other countries don't allow many freedom of choices that we do.

Measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc. vs covid. Difference between bacterial vs viral.

You don't know what you're talking about. Measles, mumps and chicken pox are viruses. Covid is a virus too.

 

[Jesse]

Measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc. vs covid. Difference between bacterial vs viral.

You don't know what you're talking about. Measles, mumps and chicken pox are viruses. Covid is a virus too.

But it sounds good and fits their narrative. Lol