Who's with me?

[grizindabox]

You don't know shit. My point is that Hospitalizations are what direct policy, on the steps to combat Covid and that if deaths is the driving factor, then policy is being made too late. No one likes to see deaths increase, but it is not the number to watch if you want to bitch about steps being taken.

Hey, we get it. New cases is the only one that fits your narrative.

Not looking to dictate a narrative. But if you want to determine everything by the deaths, you are being reactive as opposed to proactive. But it is great how many keep trying to put words in my mouth just so they can bang on their ol' manboobs like an aging Tarzan.

 

[MikeyGriz]

Elective procedures being back is bittersweet. I had a vasectomy strategically scheduled for the Thursday morning of March Madness so I could watch 50+ hours of basketball without anyone questioning it. Obviously, none of that happened.

Now, although I can get the procedure, it seems like a waste. Also, does anyone know if they take your balls completely off? If so, do you get to keep them?

Have them bronzed and mount them under your truck! :lol:

 

[AZGrizFan]

And almost without exception COVID-related hospital stays are being noted as shorter, with milder symptoms, fewer intubations, and ultimately fewer deaths when compared to late March, early April. Yes, some hospitals are running near “capacity”, but thats where they LIKE to run, given that empty beds don’t pay the bills. Plus, they have reinstituted non-COVID elective procedures that are taking up a good portion of the ICU beds as well....again, because empty beds don’t pay the bills. All the hysteria (not necessarily from you, Box) about “Erhmegerd! ICU’s are nearing capacity in some hot spots!” Is BY DESIGN.....the administrators are trying to make up for lost revenue from March, April and May when they had to freaking lay off staff because there were no patients.

And to add, the national number isn't the number that people should dwell on, it is the numbers with smaller scopes, the states, counties, and cities. The virus is at different phases every where and the hot spots are the most important, especially without a National plan in place. The biggest thing going forward is if cases, hospitalizations, spike in new areas due to people that left an area because of steps taken because of the virus to another state, county, or city that currently is not taking the same precautions to have a great 4th of July holiday.

The issue here is that even the hotspots that the media is focusing on (Houston, Miami, to name a couple) are NOT having issues. Blaring headlines today that Miami-Dade County is at 84% of capacity in ICU!!! Oh no’s! Again, empty beds don’t pay the bills....so that’s by design. Not to mention the fact every hospital can flex rooms/floors to increase # of ICU beds in an ACTUAL emergency....This fear/pandering to the public is really pathetic if it weren’t so damaging to the country.

 

[grizindabox]

And to add, the national number isn't the number that people should dwell on, it is the numbers with smaller scopes, the states, counties, and cities. The virus is at different phases every where and the hot spots are the most important, especially without a National plan in place. The biggest thing going forward is if cases, hospitalizations, spike in new areas due to people that left an area because of steps taken because of the virus to another state, county, or city that currently is not taking the same precautions to have a great 4th of July holiday.

The issue here is that even the hotspots that the media is focusing on (Houston, Miami, to name a couple) are NOT having issues. Blaring headlines today that Miami-Dade County is at 84% of capacity in ICU!!! Oh no’s! Again, empty beds don’t pay the bills....so that’s by design. Not to mention the fact every hospital can flex rooms/floors to increase # of ICU beds in an ACTUAL emergency....This fear/pandering to the public is really pathetic if it weren’t so damaging to the country.

AZ, I am not arguing numbers, just what to watch. I will also add that not all ICU beds are equal. so the general number might not tell the whole story. A facility can have 100 ICU beds, but only 40 are prepared for treatment of covid patients due to the requirements. They might have open beds in the 60 bed section but need more than 40 to accommodate covid patients. The thing about all this is that no one makes those numbers easy to access, so people only have the at-large numbers.

 

[AZGrizFan]

The issue here is that even the hotspots that the media is focusing on (Houston, Miami, to name a couple) are NOT having issues. Blaring headlines today that Miami-Dade County is at 84% of capacity in ICU!!! Oh no’s! Again, empty beds don’t pay the bills....so that’s by design. Not to mention the fact every hospital can flex rooms/floors to increase # of ICU beds in an ACTUAL emergency....This fear/pandering to the public is really pathetic if it weren’t so damaging to the country.

AZ, I am not arguing numbers, just what to watch. I will also add that not all ICU beds are equal. so the general number might not tell the whole story. A facility can have 100 ICU beds, but only 40 are prepared for treatment of covid patients due to the requirements. They might have open beds in the 60 bed section but need more than 40 to accommodate covid patients. The thing about all this is that no one makes those numbers easy to access, so people only have the at-large numbers.

Agreed. The other thing that no one seems to want to talk about is “what did the capacity numbers look like LAST year? And in many, many cases, they look very similar to what hospitals are seeing now....but for some reason the media chooses to make THIS year sound like a crisis, when it’s how they operate normally.

 

[Grizzoola]

As to doctors, hospitals, etc., liking to fill beds, why then on national TV are doctors preaching continuously to follow rules to avoid the pandemic? Seems if they wanted more patients, they'd be silent. Or, do you think that what they say on TV is just PR?

 

[MikeyGriz]

I did see at least 3 hospital directors from the Houston area on tv saying that although their ICU beds were 85-90% full, 85% of those were non-Covid cases and that they did have the capacity to repurpose additional beds/floors to ICU if the need arose. In other words, take a deep breath.

 

[ilovethecats]

Hey, we get it. New cases is the only one that fits your narrative.

Not looking to dictate a narrative. But if you want to determine everything by the deaths, you are being reactive as opposed to proactive. But it is great how many keep trying to put words in my mouth just so they can bang on their ol' manboobs like an aging Tarzan.

Your point is obviously correct. Though you have to understand where many of us are coming from. In March the only thing we heard about was how 3-5 million Americans could DIE from this virus. In order to show just how serious it was, DEATHS were the deciding factor.

How do you think people would have reacted had they said from the beginning; hey, probably 10-15 million of you Americans will get the virus, but almost none of you will be hospitalized and only a fraction of a percent of you will likely die.

The fact is, in early March it was deaths that was the driving factor. Then it became not overwhelming hospitals. And now, because deaths have dropped every week for nearly three months, and other than some hotspots nearly every hospital in the nation is fine, NOW all of a sudden the most important number is simply the number of new cases. And we always need to "wait a couple more weeks and see" to really understand how deadly this thing can be.

Personally, I don't see how deaths shouldn't be the main factor in all this Covid stuff. I wouldn't care if 290 million Americans got the virus if very few were hospitalized and a tiny fraction died. But that's just my opinion.

 

[EverettGriz]

I can state without reservation that here in the PNW, where we had the first outbreak of Covid, the conversation regarding flattening the curve was never directly about preventing deaths. It was ALWAYS about maintaining capacity in the health care system. Certainly fewer deaths would result, but I never heard that as a stated goal.

 

[grizindabox]

Not looking to dictate a narrative. But if you want to determine everything by the deaths, you are being reactive as opposed to proactive. But it is great how many keep trying to put words in my mouth just so they can bang on their ol' manboobs like an aging Tarzan.

Your point is obviously correct. Though you have to understand where many of us are coming from. In March the only thing we heard about was how 3-5 million Americans could DIE from this virus. In order to show just how serious it was, DEATHS were the deciding factor.

How do you think people would have reacted had they said from the beginning; hey, probably 10-15 million of you Americans will get the virus, but almost none of you will be hospitalized and only a fraction of a percent of you will likely die.

The fact is, in early March it was deaths that was the driving factor. Then it became not overwhelming hospitals. And now, because deaths have dropped every week for nearly three months, and other than some hotspots nearly every hospital in the nation is fine, NOW all of a sudden the most important number is simply the number of new cases. And we always need to "wait a couple more weeks and see" to really understand how deadly this thing can be.

Personally, I don't see how deaths shouldn't be the main factor in all this Covid stuff. I wouldn't care if 290 million Americans got the virus if very few were hospitalized and a tiny fraction died. But that's just my opinion.

Hospitalizations is the main, because if they can control the hospitalizations they have a better chance at minimizing the deaths. As for the total number of positives, it is a hollow number, the % of positives is more telling.

 

[grizindabox]

I can state without reservation that here in the PNW, where we had the first outbreak of Covid, the conversation regarding flattening the curve was never directly about preventing deaths. It was ALWAYS about maintaining capacity in the health care system. Certainly fewer deaths would result, but I never heard that as a stated goal.

This is still the main goal.

 

[ilovethecats]

I can state without reservation that here in the PNW, where we had the first outbreak of Covid, the conversation regarding flattening the curve was never directly about preventing deaths. It was ALWAYS about maintaining capacity in the health care system. Certainly fewer deaths would result, but I never heard that as a stated goal.

This is still the main goal.

Then why would they even mention a predicted number of deaths? And why would there be a "death ticker" on every news outlet for over two months? It seems that people were most certainly concerned with deaths.

And if what you say is true, then that is GREAT news for Montana especially and almost every other state. Because even after our economy opened back up a couple months ago, and our "peaking cases", even our "hotspot of Bozeman has zero hospitalizations. I could be wrong but I think our peak hospitalizations was around 10 people. Makes the current measures even crazier in my opinion.

I'd love to see some data of how many hospitals in the country are overwhelmed or even on the verge of being overwhelmed. Based on everything I've seen it appears that nearly all of them are totally fine. If anyone has that data I'd love to read it. I just may even change my view!

 

[AZGrizFan]

I did see at least 3 hospital directors from the Houston area on tv saying that although their ICU beds were 85-90% full, 85% of those were non-Covid cases and that they did have the capacity to repurpose additional beds/floors to ICU if the need arose. In other words, take a deep breath.

And that capability exists in virtually every major metropolitan hot spot. :thumb: :thumb:

Take a deep breath is right. Preferably without a mask on, amirite?

 

[EverettGriz]

Then why would they even mention a predicted number of deaths? And why would there be a "death ticker" on every news outlet for over two months? It seems that people were most certainly concerned with deaths.

You...you think people shouldn't be concerned with the death totals? Seems a rather important detail.

I'd love to see some data of how many hospitals in the country are overwhelmed or even on the verge of being overwhelmed.

Simply bing "hospitals at ICU capacity". There are over 50 hospitals in Florida ALONE who have no (ZERO) ICU beds, and dozens more at 90%. And for anyone who says that's SOP, read what the hospital administrators are saying. They wouldn't be sounding the alarm if it was "normal procedure" (it isn't) to run anywhere near that level of capacity.

At least Florida doesn't have a population susceptible to things like heart attacks, strokes, diabetes and other conditions which could put them in need of an ICU bed....

 

[PlayerRep]

"Nearly 84% of Florida's ICU beds are filled"

"As the number of coronavirus cases continue to rise in Florida, the state is facing a shortage of available ICU beds. On Tuesday, when there were more than 7,300 new cases of the coronavirus reported, officials also reported that out of the state's 5,023 ICU beds in the state, just 962 are still available.

Out of Florida's 67 counties, 25 have at least one hospital with no ICU beds available as of Tuesday. Ten counties have less than 10% of their ICU beds available, and two counties have completely run out of adult ICU beds.

In Miami-Dade County, which accounts for the majority of the state's cases with more than 51,000, nine hospitals have run out of ICU beds. Jackson Memorial Hospital has less than 9% of its 185 ICU beds available, and some patients have had to wait up to 24 hours to get one of the remaining beds. The hospital is also facing staffing shortages.

Arizona is also running low on hospital beds, and health care workers in the state are once again running low on PPE. Hospitalizations have soared to 90% in California. Texas officials have also expressed fear that they could join Florida, California, and other states in running out of room in its hospitals."

https://news.yahoo.com/nearly-84-floridas-icu-beds-035228614.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9zZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tL3NlYXJjaD9laT11dGYtOCZmcj1hYXBsdyZwPWZsb3JpZGEraG9zcGl0YWwrYmVkcw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGrJp-T0OLzFomhO2vvoSslITF8eoRUuyd5fm5PtUZpNYp43Vu3BrcFDnAuTXkV_YN-RvVtcswSxK54HPF7logyDdRbPHNl6KkfIhkv3zlE88Vo2LvT4DtfUpg0g242WhIiZbiGpHnARaGyLKa-3L91Cnr-KLyAIX4AHjmdY0NnT

 

[PlayerRep]

Then why would they even mention a predicted number of deaths? And why would there be a "death ticker" on every news outlet for over two months? It seems that people were most certainly concerned with deaths.

You...you think people shouldn't be concerned with the death totals? Seems a rather important detail.

I'd love to see some data of how many hospitals in the country are overwhelmed or even on the verge of being overwhelmed.

Simply bing "hospitals at ICU capacity". There are over 50 hospitals in Florida ALONE who have no (ZERO) ICU beds, and dozens more at 90%. And for anyone who says that's SOP, read what the hospital administrators are saying. They wouldn't be sounding the alarm if it was "normal procedure" (it isn't) to run anywhere near that level of capacity.

At least Florida doesn't have a population susceptible to things like heart attacks, strokes, diabetes and other conditions which could put them in need of an ICU bed....

Where are you getting the 50 bed stat from? I didn't look for it, just read the above article.

 

[EverettGriz]

Not beds, fifty hospitals. Just grabbed the first link that came up. There are dozens from multiple sources.

https://www.newsweek.com/56-florida-icu-beds-are-full-dozens-more-over-90-percent-capacity-1516054

 

[ilovethecats]

You...you think people shouldn't be concerned with the death totals? Seems a rather important detail.

No EG, I think people should be MOST concerned with deaths. Like that's all that matters. But because the deaths are no where near what was predicted (thanks solely to the lockdown I know), then people need to hang their hats on why else this is so serious.

You say from the very beginning, the most important concern from everyone was overwhelming hospitals. While I disagree, I'll say that you are right on that. But then a ton of hospitals start closing departments and furloughing employees. Millions of dollars of equipment brought in went unused. So now, it appears in way more cases than not, it's not about overwhelming the hospitals either.

I don't disagree that there are likely a lot of spots in Florida right now maxing out their beds. Just like at a time they were in New York. Then New Orleans. And now Houston. You won't get an argument from me there.

 

[MikeyGriz]

I did see at least 3 hospital directors from the Houston area on tv saying that although their ICU beds were 85-90% full, 85% of those were non-Covid cases and that they did have the capacity to repurpose additional beds/floors to ICU if the need arose. In other words, take a deep breath.

And that capability exists in virtually every major metropolitan hot spot. :thumb: :thumb:

Take a deep breath is right. Preferably without a mask on, amirite?

Right!

 

[AZGrizFan]

"Nearly 84% of Florida's ICU beds are filled"

"As the number of coronavirus cases continue to rise in Florida, the state is facing a shortage of available ICU beds. On Tuesday, when there were more than 7,300 new cases of the coronavirus reported, officials also reported that out of the state's 5,023 ICU beds in the state, just 962 are still available.

Out of Florida's 67 counties, 25 have at least one hospital with no ICU beds available as of Tuesday. Ten counties have less than 10% of their ICU beds available, and two counties have completely run out of adult ICU beds.

In Miami-Dade County, which accounts for the majority of the state's cases with more than 51,000, nine hospitals have run out of ICU beds. Jackson Memorial Hospital has less than 9% of its 185 ICU beds available, and some patients have had to wait up to 24 hours to get one of the remaining beds. The hospital is also facing staffing shortages.

Arizona is also running low on hospital beds, and health care workers in the state are once again running low on PPE. Hospitalizations have soared to 90% in California. Texas officials have also expressed fear that they could join Florida, California, and other states in running out of room in its hospitals."

https://news.yahoo.com/nearly-84-floridas-icu-beds-035228614.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9zZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tL3NlYXJjaD9laT11dGYtOCZmcj1hYXBsdyZwPWZsb3JpZGEraG9zcGl0YWwrYmVkcw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGrJp-T0OLzFomhO2vvoSslITF8eoRUuyd5fm5PtUZpNYp43Vu3BrcFDnAuTXkV_YN-RvVtcswSxK54HPF7logyDdRbPHNl6KkfIhkv3zlE88Vo2LvT4DtfUpg0g242WhIiZbiGpHnARaGyLKa-3L91Cnr-KLyAIX4AHjmdY0NnT

Well, with any luck they can get that 84% number down to 30 or 40% and then lay off a bunch of staff.

Hospitalizations in CA have “soared” to 90%. Last year this time they were 87%. :lol:

This is just fear porn at its finest....