Transgender Debate

[PlayerRep]

I find it amusing that all these people who don't care about athletics and UM/MSU athletics, and hate football, are running around being all worried about losing home playoff games.

I assume the State and the Gov. have a strategy for this. As with the Softball, I wonder if the NCAA would try to go against this many states for this issue. That could irritate a lot of people in Congress, who would vote on any attempt to repeal the ncaa antitrust favorable treatment. Also, I would think a MT judge would be likely to find a way to enjoin the NCAA on this issue, at least on a temporary basis. What judge wants to be known as allowing the (hated) ncaa to take playoff games away from MT or any state.

So the AD’s for both schools who raised the alarm about losing home playoffs games amuse you and just made this all up because they hate football? Lol. What is the governors strategy on this one other then to own the libs? You might be a lawyer but the NCAA doesn’t have an anti-trust exemption that Congress can repeal. Better check your cites. NCAA v. Br’d of Regents Univ. OK and O’bannon v. NCAA held that NCAA was subject to anti trust laws, and they have been whining about it ever since. They want to be exempted but they aren’t. (Please bet me. Lol).

I didn't say the ncaa has an antitrust "exemption". The ncaa has received favorable antitrust treatment over the decades, with an exception or two. The ncaa v. antitrust battle is ongoing. See below. There is also related legislation in Congress and many states. Also, many besides AD's made the playoff game argument. You welch on your bests, so no reason to bet you.

"Antitrust law is the key to making the NCAA pay student-athletes

The courts have long protected the NCAA. A new Supreme Court case might change that."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/04/01/ncaa-pay-athletes-supreme-court/#:~:text=Ordinarily%2C%20the%20NCAA’s%20conduct%20would%20be%20clearly%20illegal,1984%20Supreme%20Court%20case%20to%20defend%20its%20wage-fixing.

"As The NCAA’s Antitrust Battle Intensifies, 2021 Could Bring Monumental Change To College Sports". Feb. 22, 2021.

"Just prior to his January departure, Makan Delrahim put the finishing touches on the Antitrust Division’s opinion in the Alston v. NCAA case and sent it to the Office of the Solicitor General, who will argue the government’s case against the NCAA. According to the former Department of Justice antitrust lawyer, the NCAA is approaching uncharted territory in antitrust law, and is looking for the Supreme Court and/or Congress to throw them a lifeline."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karenweaver/2021/02/22/three-key-ncaa-rules-may-violate-us-antitrust-laws-2021-could-bring-monumental-change-to--organization/?sh=457f8ae21df8

"Supreme Court Rips Into NCAA System, but a Win for Athletes' Rights Is Far From Guaranteed

The justices took the NCAA to task on Tuesday, but experts warn of the danger of reading into the questions asked at the virtual hearing."

"The question at issue in NCAA v. Alston asks whether the NCAA’s restrictions on compensation for student-athletes are violative of federal antitrust law. Shawne Alston, the lead plaintiff who represents a class of former student-athletes, filed the original complaint in 2014. Almost seven years later, Alston represents a culmination of years of antitrust litigation for the NCAA and a push for the expansion of economic rights for collegiate athletes.

March 31, 2021 marked an important moment in the history of college sports. The Supreme Court heard oral argument in a case involving the NCAA for the first time in nearly 40 years."

https://harvardjsel.com/2021/04/ncaa-v-alston-at-the-supreme-court/

 

[AZGrizFan]

And there you have it. Which is why the issue won't go away. Personally, I think the only "fair" way to resolve the issue may be to have another competitive structure just for transgender athletes.

There are, of course, sports where transgenders have competed with biological girls/women apparently with no real problems. But I kinda wonder how those who see "inclusion" as the only proper answer will feel when/if* transgenders own all or most of the records for individual "female" events.

* The science -- from broad, systematic studies -- is not there yet. But what there is suggests that biologically male transgenders, in general, do indeed have a physiological advantage over biological females. That would presumably be mitigated in team sports (unless most or all of a team were transgender). Problem is, how long do we wait for definitive scientific answers?

I believe the conundrum with your solution is statistically there just aren’t the numbers for a third class of athletic competition at any level. HB112 basically tells them to fuck off no soup for you. While the Olympics, NCAA, high school associations and the LPGA and other pro sports are trying to come up with solutions that are still evolving to make a more level playing field. So yeah, it’s either the woke solution or HB 112? Me, I’m for home playoff games and hate all women. Woke that mother fuckers ers

That’s because there are only TWO classifications. You’re either XX or XY. That’s pretty simple. compete against the same chromosome mix. Real easy way to divide.

 

[argh!]

greenie, you usually mock, or at least call unnecessary, actions that are about a tiny percent of the population, but potentially affect much larger segments of society. this silly action, and concomitant waste of taxpayer dollars and legislative time, seems to fall in that category. your say you are friends with gianforte, who agrees with the action, and but don't take the same stance. not looking for a reply, just making an observation.

Your first sentence is not accurate. Don't know what you are talking about. Yes, I know G very well. I represented his company from 1997 (inception) to sale to Oracle for $1.8 billion in 2012. I supported him in each of his campaigns. I have taken him to my reservation twice, including to our ranch. He's seen the two-room shack I grew up in during my early years. He is very smart, strategic and hard-working. He is and will be great on economic, business, jobs, deregulation, and govt efficiency, but is way more socially conservative than I am.

the first sentence is entirely accurate, especially in the early covid days. i think you were right, a lot of the time, but that's not the point. i'll leave the rest of that for you to figure out.

as for gianforte, you were very descriptive as you lumbered towards my question, before dodging a direct answer. i can understand why, i guess.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

I believe the conundrum with your solution is statistically there just aren’t the numbers for a third class of athletic competition at any level. HB112 basically tells them to [#]f### off no soup for you. While the Olympics, NCAA, high school associations and the LPGA and other pro sports are trying to come up with solutions that are still evolving to make a more level playing field. So yeah, it’s either the woke solution or HB 112? Me, I’m for home playoff games and hate all women. Woke that mother f###[#] ers

That’s because there are only TWO classifications. You’re either XX or XY. That’s pretty simple. compete against the same chromosome mix. Real easy way to divide.

Like any female that is transitioning?

 

[tourist]

Transitioning. :roll:
You are what you are at birth. Think you are a woman 'trapped' in a man's body, then live your life any way you want, but your equipment package is what it is. This 'transgendered' shit is just PC double talk for a mental disorder. This is just politically motivated bullshit to lend some imagined sense of right to guys competing against women. Orwellian Doublespeak. All ya gotta do to prove otherwise is have a baby, dude, then I could change my mind.

 

[Jesse]

Transitioning. :roll:
You are what you are at birth. Think you are a woman 'trapped' in a man's body, then live your life any way you want, but your equipment package is what it is. This 'transgendered' shit is just PC double talk for a mental disorder. This is just politically motivated bullshit to lend some imagined sense of right to guys competing against women. Orwellian Doublespeak. All ya gotta do to prove otherwise is have a baby, dude, then I could change my mind.

Tourist I think I remember reading about a trans dude who actually had a baby after a uterus transplant, artificial insemination and hormone therapy. Talk about woke

 

[tourist]

If you've got link, I'd like t read it.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Transitioning. :roll:
You are what you are at birth. Think you are a woman 'trapped' in a man's body, then live your life any way you want, but your equipment package is what it is. This 'transgendered' shit is just PC double talk for a mental disorder. This is just politically motivated bullshit to lend some imagined sense of right to guys competing against women. Orwellian Doublespeak. All ya gotta do to prove otherwise is have a baby, dude, then I could change my mind.

So it is ok for a female transitioning to a male to compete with females?

 

[Ursa Major]

Transitioning. :roll:
You are what you are at birth. Think you are a woman 'trapped' in a man's body, then live your life any way you want, but your equipment package is what it is. This 'transgendered' shit is just PC double talk for a mental disorder. This is just politically motivated bullshit to lend some imagined sense of right to guys competing against women. Orwellian Doublespeak. All ya gotta do to prove otherwise is have a baby, dude, then I could change my mind.

Being transgendered is not a “mental disorder’ according to the APA. Stop volunteering ignorance.

 

[tourist]

It was changed in the DSM - V, to not stigmatize them. PC at work. So, let's not paraphrase the APA unless YOU are prepared to expose YOUR ignorance, Dipper.

HHB, AZ summarized it nicely with XX and XY. You are as you were born.

 

[garizzalies]

Another ok entry, technically a duet, but how do you not give Sir McCarthy a line or two? And Kanye just cracks me up. I can’t look at the guy. But Ri. Oh my sweet Ri-ri
Don’t like it? F-U I’ve been carrying this thread, let’s hear your entry. Bonus points if from 80s


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kt0g4dWxEBo

 

[Ursa Major]

It was changed in the DSM - V, to not stigmatize them. PC at work. So, let's not paraphrase the APA unless YOU are prepared to expose YOUR ignorance, Dipper.

HHB, AZ summarized it nicely with XX and XY. You are as you were born.

Yes, so we agree, your statement is incorrect and you’re full of shit. You’re intellectually lazy and continue to spread misinformation.

The DSM-5 was published 8 years ago. About 15 years ago the APA launched a task force on treating transgendered clients that was critical of pathologizing transgendered individuals.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

It’s just a piece of the puzzle, but can anyone provide an example of a cisgendered female losing out on a college athletics opportunity as a direct result of competing against a transgendered female or females? I’ve seen examples of people losing, but not any examples of people losing out on future opportunities.

Bonus points if she was Montana-based.

 

[tourist]

Dip, the APA may have not wanted to 'pathologize' them, but they are f*ucked up. Any man that thinks he's a woman, or any woman that thinks she's a man is a mental case. Can their condition be fixed, no. So, change societal attitudes by making 'transgendered' a politically correct designation. This works until the biological male competes with the biological female. Physical attributes give the dude the advantage in sports. What were you before you changed? :?

 

[tourist]

Another ok entry, technically a duet, but how do you not give Sir McCarthy a line or two? And Kanye just cracks me up. I can’t look at the guy. But Ri. Oh my sweet Ri-ri
Don’t like it? F-U I’ve been carrying this thread, let’s hear your entry. Bonus points if from 80s


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kt0g4dWxEBo

Sorry, Grizzles, I list sight of the duet thing. Don't remember the dates, but how about George Jones and Tammy Wynette?

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

It was changed in the DSM - V, to not stigmatize them. PC at work. So, let's not paraphrase the APA unless YOU are prepared to expose YOUR ignorance, Dipper.

HHB, AZ summarized it nicely with XX and XY. You are as you were born.

I think there is already a flaw in this...I will wait.

 

[garizzalies]

You’ll have to be more specific. Jones/Wynette had entire duet albums.
Here’s an oldie but a goodie

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BskKbs_BHNg

 

[SoldierGriz]

It’s just a piece of the puzzle, but can anyone provide an example of a cisgendered female losing out on a college athletics opportunity as a direct result of competing against a transgendered female or females? I’ve seen examples of people losing, but not any examples of people losing out on future opportunities.

Bonus points if she was Montana-based.

Not going to search.. but certainly womens records are beginning to disappear.

And, would certainly suck if a young women lost a state championship to a young man...that HAS certainly happened. Imagine her visualizing herself on top of the podium...committing hundreds of hours...sacrificing time in the summer and off season to train...ugh. That alone is enough for me to see the unfairness...even if its not common...yet.

 

[SoldierGriz]

It’s just a piece of the puzzle, but can anyone provide an example of a cisgendered female losing out on a college athletics opportunity as a direct result of competing against a transgendered female or females? I’ve seen examples of people losing, but not any examples of people losing out on future opportunities.

Bonus points if she was Montana-based.

Not going to search.. but certainly womens records are beginning to disappear.

And, would certainly suck if a young women lost a state championship to a young man...that HAS certainly happened. Imagine her visualizing herself on top of the podium...committing hundreds of hours...sacrificing time in the summer and off season to train...ugh. That alone is enough for me to see the unfairness...even if its not common...yet.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

It’s just a piece of the puzzle, but can anyone provide an example of a cisgendered female losing out on a college athletics opportunity as a direct result of competing against a transgendered female or females? I’ve seen examples of people losing, but not any examples of people losing out on future opportunities.

Bonus points if she was Montana-based.

Not going to search.. but certainly womens records are beginning to disappear.

And, would certainly suck if a young women lost a state championship to a young man...that HAS certainly happened. Imagine her visualizing herself on top of the podium...committing hundreds of hours...sacrificing time in the summer and off season to train...ugh. That alone is enough for me to see the unfairness...even if its not common...yet.

Maybe that has happened. Do you have any examples? Did the loss cost the second placer a college opportunity? I honestly don’t know, and I don’t think anyone does, so I’m not calling you out or anything.

Also, the girl who visualizes herself atop the podium, and puts in all that time and sacrifice, isn’t losing to someone who hasn’t done the same or more.