obvious difference between jmu, ndsu and the rest of the field

[2011BisonAlumni]

The longer I watch these FCS playoffs it becomes more evident every year that home field advantage is a huge benefit. I don't think many people remember but Dickenson and Montana beat an outstanding Marshall Team in their home stadium for the title. That was a huge hurdle to clear. Marshall had better athletes across the board Montana had Dickenson,

But for the winning FG drive, the game was not DD's best; he was sacked 11 times. It was far from a one man show. The major credit for the win has to go to the somewhat overlooked Griz defense; they were outstanding in containing the potent Marshall offense led by Pennington. Safety (the difference in the 22-20 score), goal line stand; wonderful LB play.

Don't know how you can lay that at DD's feet (if you are?). What I was amazed at was how he kept answering the bell even after getting sacked 11 times. Gamer.

Oh, and to rebut everything our Bizon friend here has spewed: What we are talking about is college QBs, specifically FCS QBs, and what they did at that level. What they later went on to do or not do in the pros is irrelevant.

DD is in the College Football Hall of Fame. We'll wait and see if any of the rest of the names he's proposed make it that far. McNair? Should be in, but apparently his school hasn't filled out the nomination papers. Romo? Maybe. Armanti? Probably. Jensen? Not very likely. Wentz? Maybe. Stick? Possible, though not likely.

Three names he proposed for the FCS Rushmore:
Wentz
Romo
Edwards

All great QBs, but guess what else they have in common? They couldn't win in Washington-Grizzly Stadium.

And one last thing: You rank on DD for winning only one national championship. If DD had had the offensive lines, rushing attack, and defenses that any of the NDSU quarterbacks during its dynasty had, he would have had no trouble winning three championships. Hell, in the season he won his title and Payton he played only an average of 2 1/2 quarters/game, and still ran up 51 passing TDs and 5176 yards passing, with a defense that was good most of the year and only great toward the end, and a token of a rushing game. Give him NDSU's D, O Line, and running attack, and...he could have threatened an undefeated career.

Going to say this right now. Brock Jensen, with the third most wins in college football history (any level of football) and Easton Stick, with the second most wins in college football history (any level of football), will both end up in the college football hall of fame.

 

[argh!]

The longer I watch these FCS playoffs it becomes more evident every year that home field advantage is a huge benefit. I don't think many people remember but Dickenson and Montana beat an outstanding Marshall Team in their home stadium for the title. That was a huge hurdle to clear. Marshall had better athletes across the board Montana had Dickenson,

But for the winning FG drive, the game was not DD's best; he was sacked 11 times. It was far from a one man show. The major credit for the win has to go to the somewhat overlooked Griz defense; they were outstanding in containing the potent Marshall offense led by Pennington. Safety (the difference in the 22-20 score), goal line stand; wonderful LB play.

Don't know how you can lay that at DD's feet (if you are?). What I was amazed at was how he kept answering the bell even after getting sacked 11 times. Gamer.

Oh, and to rebut everything our Bizon friend here has spewed: What we are talking about is college QBs, specifically FCS QBs, and what they did at that level. What they later went on to do or not do in the pros is irrelevant.

DD is in the College Football Hall of Fame. We'll wait and see if any of the rest of the names he's proposed make it that far. McNair? Should be in, but apparently his school hasn't filled out the nomination papers. Romo? Maybe. Armanti? Probably. Jensen? Not very likely. Wentz? Maybe. Stick? Possible, though not likely.

Three names he proposed for the FCS Rushmore:
Wentz
Romo
Edwards

All great QBs, but guess what else they have in common? They couldn't win in Washington-Grizzly Stadium.

And one last thing: You rank on DD for winning only one national championship. If DD had had the offensive lines, rushing attack, and defenses that any of the NDSU quarterbacks during its dynasty had, he would have had no trouble winning three championships. Hell, in the season he won his title and Payton he played only an average of 2 1/2 quarters/game, and still ran up 51 passing TDs and 5176 yards passing, with a defense that was good most of the year and only great toward the end, and a token of a rushing game. Give him NDSU's D, O Line, and running attack, and...he could have threatened an undefeated career.

Going to say this right now. Brock Jensen, with the third most wins in college football history (any level of football) and Easton Stick, with the second most wins in college football history (any level of football), will both end up in the college football hall of fame.

gonna say this right now, you are easily one of the three on the egriz mount rushmore of all-time loser posters, with a nearly perfect record of posts that make you look pathetic/overall posts. i don't think there is any question that you lead egriz in that category by a long, long ways.

 

[granitegriz]

JMU is not on same level with NDSU either, will lose by 3 plus touchdowns!

 

[CDAGRIZ]

But for the winning FG drive, the game was not DD's best; he was sacked 11 times. It was far from a one man show. The major credit for the win has to go to the somewhat overlooked Griz defense; they were outstanding in containing the potent Marshall offense led by Pennington. Safety (the difference in the 22-20 score), goal line stand; wonderful LB play.

Don't know how you can lay that at DD's feet (if you are?). What I was amazed at was how he kept answering the bell even after getting sacked 11 times. Gamer.

Oh, and to rebut everything our Bizon friend here has spewed: What we are talking about is college QBs, specifically FCS QBs, and what they did at that level. What they later went on to do or not do in the pros is irrelevant.

DD is in the College Football Hall of Fame. We'll wait and see if any of the rest of the names he's proposed make it that far. McNair? Should be in, but apparently his school hasn't filled out the nomination papers. Romo? Maybe. Armanti? Probably. Jensen? Not very likely. Wentz? Maybe. Stick? Possible, though not likely.

Three names he proposed for the FCS Rushmore:
Wentz
Romo
Edwards

All great QBs, but guess what else they have in common? They couldn't win in Washington-Grizzly Stadium.

And one last thing: You rank on DD for winning only one national championship. If DD had had the offensive lines, rushing attack, and defenses that any of the NDSU quarterbacks during its dynasty had, he would have had no trouble winning three championships. Hell, in the season he won his title and Payton he played only an average of 2 1/2 quarters/game, and still ran up 51 passing TDs and 5176 yards passing, with a defense that was good most of the year and only great toward the end, and a token of a rushing game. Give him NDSU's D, O Line, and running attack, and...he could have threatened an undefeated career.

Going to say this right now. Brock Jensen, with the third most wins in college football history (any level of football) and Easton Stick, with the second most wins in college football history (any level of football), will both end up in the college football hall of fame.

gonna say this right now, you are easily one of the three on the egriz mount rushmore of all-time loser posters, with a nearly perfect record of posts that make you look pathetic/overall posts. i don't think there is any question that you lead egriz in that category by a long, long ways.

But he doesn’t care that we talk about the Buffs, he just wouldn’t be here every day if we didn’t, but he totally doesn’t care at all.

Oh, and “nobody cares” what Dickenson did in Canada, but the fact that Jenson got hurt in Canada (an injury prone T-Buff QB, what a surprise), and that Short Stick “might go to Canada and obliterate the records” means the Buff QB’s were better in college.

The Butters Difference!

 

[CrunchGriz]

One last stat line comparison, and comment:

Jensen vs. Dickenson (career):

		Passing Yards 		TDs Responsible For	Total Off/Game
Jensen		8,598 (159/game)	107 (in 54 games; 1.98/game)	182.2
Dickenson	13,486 (321/game)	137 (in 42 games; 3.26/game)	329.2

What these stats tell me is that Jensen rode a better overall team to more titles, not that he was the dominant force that created the titles, like DD was. Football is a team sport; the QB is often the leader, but he can only do so much. When you have a superior supporting cast, you're going to win more titles; that alone won't get him into the CFHOF.

 

[kemajic]

One last stat line comparison, and comment:

Jensen vs. Dickenson (career):

		Passing Yards 		TDs Responsible For	Total Off/Game
Jensen		8,598 (159/game)	107 (in 54 games; 1.98/game)	182.2
Dickenson	13,486 (321/game)	137 (in 42 games; 3.26/game)	329.2

What these stats tell me is that Jensen rode a better overall team to more titles, not that he was the dominant force that created the titles, like DD was. Football is a team sport; the QB is often the leader, but he can only do so much. When you have a superior supporting cast, you're going to win more titles; that alone won't get him into the CFHOF.

DD ran an Air Read offense. Jensen ran a balanced offense.

 

[CrunchGriz]

One last stat line comparison, and comment:

Jensen vs. Dickenson (career):

		Passing Yards 		TDs Responsible For	Total Off/Game
Jensen		8,598 (159/game)	107 (in 54 games; 1.98/game)	182.2
Dickenson	13,486 (321/game)	137 (in 42 games; 3.26/game)	329.2

What these stats tell me is that Jensen rode a better overall team to more titles, not that he was the dominant force that created the titles, like DD was. Football is a team sport; the QB is often the leader, but he can only do so much. When you have a superior supporting cast, you're going to win more titles; that alone won't get him into the CFHOF.

DD ran an Air Read offense. Jensen ran a balanced offense.

Oh, I understand that; but that cuts both ways. DD ended up with bigger stats, but he also had to carry a much larger part of the load, and there was no mystery about where the next play was coming from back then, yet still no one could stop him. Jensen had the benefit of a lot more offensive diversity, so he had a lot less pressure. And in this day and age, I don't care what system you're running short of the triple option, if your career average passing yardage per game is under 160, you're not HOF material—you’re NDSU's version of Trent Dilfer.

 

[PlayerRep]

The longer I watch these FCS playoffs it becomes more evident every year that home field advantage is a huge benefit. I don't think many people remember but Dickenson and Montana beat an outstanding Marshall Team in their home stadium for the title. That was a huge hurdle to clear. Marshall had better athletes across the board Montana had Dickenson,

But for the winning FG drive, the game was not DD's best; he was sacked 11 times. It was far from a one man show. The major credit for the win has to go to the somewhat overlooked Griz defense; they were outstanding in containing the potent Marshall offense led by Pennington. Safety (the difference in the 22-20 score), goal line stand; wonderful LB play.

Don't know how you can lay that at DD's feet (if you are?). What I was amazed at was how he kept answering the bell even after getting sacked 11 times. Gamer.

Oh, and to rebut everything our Bizon friend here has spewed: What we are talking about is college QBs, specifically FCS QBs, and what they did at that level. What they later went on to do or not do in the pros is irrelevant.

DD is in the College Football Hall of Fame. We'll wait and see if any of the rest of the names he's proposed make it that far. McNair? Should be in, but apparently his school hasn't filled out the nomination papers. Romo? Maybe. Armanti? Probably. Jensen? Not very likely. Wentz? Maybe. Stick? Possible, though not likely.

Three names he proposed for the FCS Rushmore:
Wentz
Romo
Edwards

All great QBs, but guess what else they have in common? They couldn't win in Washington-Grizzly Stadium.

And one last thing: You rank on DD for winning only one national championship. If DD had had the offensive lines, rushing attack, and defenses that any of the NDSU quarterbacks during its dynasty had, he would have had no trouble winning three championships. Hell, in the season he won his title and Payton he played only an average of 2 1/2 quarters/game, and still ran up 51 passing TDs and 5176 yards passing, with a defense that was good most of the year and only great toward the end, and a token of a rushing game. Give him NDSU's D, O Line, and running attack, and...he could have threatened an undefeated career.

Going to say this right now. Brock Jensen, with the third most wins in college football history (any level of football) and Easton Stick, with the second most wins in college football history (any level of football), will both end up in the college football hall of fame.

No way will Stick gets into the college football hall of fame. Look at the criteria. Selection is based a lot of what you do in life. Look at the schools represented.

 

[zirge]

I agree on the QBs and to get three and four years of starting out them is a big plus.
Depth is also apparent.
Colter in his ESPN show interviewed one of the old NDSU LBs, he made a point that NDSU o-linemen had a quick reaction off the snap and got to their spots faster than most teams.The overall size of NDSU and JMU o-lines are not huge, they are quick off the snap and can get to the second and third levels.
Also d-line they are not huge, rather they have quick twitch and can get off blocks and they use depth to throw several bodies at offense.
UM isn’t far away team is relatively young and length and speed of underclassmen should pay dividends going forward.
O-line depth is better the d-line interior could use more bodies.

totally agree that speed and coaching trumps size only. getting the big fellas is only 20% of what is needed and yet if you are athletic, fast and are coach close to perfection you can forgo some of that 20%

 

[Herd]

The longer I watch these FCS playoffs it becomes more evident every year that home field advantage is a huge benefit. I don't think many people remember but Dickenson and Montana beat an outstanding Marshall Team in their home stadium for the title. That was a huge hurdle to clear. Marshall had better athletes across the board Montana had Dickenson,

Also the fact NDSU plays late into Dec. or Jan. every year gives their entire roster an additional 2-3 months of practice every year. Next year they'll have a Soph. QB that has played 1.5 seasons.

Dec 20 - Jan 10 each year, formally known as “Winter Camp” in Fargo.

Home field today is . . .
- Earned
- A playoff advantage, although if you check GRiZ history is no guarantee.

Taking about home field like it isn’t earned makes one sound like a whiny girl.

 

[BillingsMafia]

I know how good the cat and weber defense was this year....yet they had no chance vs. the OFFENSIVE LINES of the two playing for the championship.....until or unless the Griz get to that level, imo ,we have no chance of playing for the championship of the fcs.......

I disagree. If we can find the right QB and a coach that truly understands the short passing game, we can beat a team with a superior offensive line. The Griz never have and never will have a totally dominant offensive line. Don Read was the last coach that understood the short passing game. Bobby is better on his second go around but still hasn't got if figured out. I hoped Stitt was going to be the guy but he was clueless. Maybe if the current coaches read Read's book.

 

[PlayerRep]

I know how good the cat and weber defense was this year....yet they had no chance vs. the OFFENSIVE LINES of the two playing for the championship.....until or unless the Griz get to that level, imo ,we have no chance of playing for the championship of the fcs.......

I disagree. If we can find the right QB and a coach that truly understands the short passing game, we can beat a team with a superior offensive line. The Griz never have and never will have a totally dominant offensive line. Don Read was the last coach that understood the short passing game. Bobby is better on his second go around but still hasn't got if figured out. I hoped Stitt was going to be the guy but he was clueless. Maybe if the current coaches read Read's book.

The Griz have had dominant o-lines. Quinn and Russum were both first team all-Americans the same year. Horn, Dow, Dyk, Hillesland, etc.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I know how good the cat and weber defense was this year....yet they had no chance vs. the OFFENSIVE LINES of the two playing for the championship.....until or unless the Griz get to that level, imo ,we have no chance of playing for the championship of the fcs.......

I disagree. If we can find the right QB and a coach that truly understands the short passing game, we can beat a team with a superior offensive line. The Griz never have and never will have a totally dominant offensive line. Don Read was the last coach that understood the short passing game. Bobby is better on his second go around but still hasn't got if figured out. I hoped Stitt was going to be the guy but he was clueless. Maybe if the current coaches read Read's book.

Please define "truly understands the short passing game..." Many on here have bitched for years that that's the ONLY passing game we have....

 

[PlayerRep]

JMU is very good, as everyone thought, but I didn't find them to be dominant or special. They probably are the 2d best team, but my view is that there is a big difference between NDSU, and the rest, including JMU. Could JMU beat NDSU, maybe. Will they? I doubt it.

 

[BillingsMafia]

I know how good the cat and weber defense was this year....yet they had no chance vs. the OFFENSIVE LINES of the two playing for the championship.....until or unless the Griz get to that level, imo ,we have no chance of playing for the championship of the fcs.......

I disagree. If we can find the right QB and a coach that truly understands the short passing game, we can beat a team with a superior offensive line. The Griz never have and never will have a totally dominant offensive line. Don Read was the last coach that understood the short passing game. Bobby is better on his second go around but still hasn't got if figured out. I hoped Stitt was going to be the guy but he was clueless. Maybe if the current coaches read Read's book.

The Griz have had dominant o-lines. Quinn and Russum were both first team all-Americans the same year. Horn, Dow, Dyk, etc.

Maybe dominant but I stated totally dominant. Richmond had no issues. Also none of those guys played much on Sundays. You actually made my point.

 

[BillingsMafia]

I know how good the cat and weber defense was this year....yet they had no chance vs. the OFFENSIVE LINES of the two playing for the championship.....until or unless the Griz get to that level, imo ,we have no chance of playing for the championship of the fcs.......

I disagree. If we can find the right QB and a coach that truly understands the short passing game, we can beat a team with a superior offensive line. The Griz never have and never will have a totally dominant offensive line. Don Read was the last coach that understood the short passing game. Bobby is better on his second go around but still hasn't got if figured out. I hoped Stitt was going to be the guy but he was clueless. Maybe if the current coaches read Read's book.

Please define "truly understands the short passing game..." Many on here have bitched for years that that's the ONLY passing game we have....

Complete quarterbacking is the title of the book. My point is the quarterback position is one guy, the offensive line is 5. Montana can get one dominant QB but not 5 dominate offensive lineman.

 

[PlayerRep]

I know how good the cat and weber defense was this year....yet they had no chance vs. the OFFENSIVE LINES of the two playing for the championship.....until or unless the Griz get to that level, imo ,we have no chance of playing for the championship of the fcs.......

I disagree. If we can find the right QB and a coach that truly understands the short passing game, we can beat a team with a superior offensive line. The Griz never have and never will have a totally dominant offensive line. Don Read was the last coach that understood the short passing game. Bobby is better on his second go around but still hasn't got if figured out. I hoped Stitt was going to be the guy but he was clueless. Maybe if the current coaches read Read's book.

The Griz have had dominant o-lines. Quinn and Russum were both first team all-Americans the same year. Horn, Dow, Dyk, etc.

Maybe dominant but I stated totally dominant. Richmond had no issues. Also none of those guys played much on Sundays. You actually made my point.

Okay, I say they were totally dominant. Against Richmond, Russum was hurt and didn't plan to play at all and hadn't been playing much. Dyk got hurt early and couldn't play. Russum stepped up, even tho he was hampered (and had surgery right after the season). He couldn't move off one foot, so couldn't move in one direction. At halftime, Quinn told the team and coaches that he was going to play center, so he could help his teammates in both directions. He did. Bergquist got hurt with a bad thigh bruise early early in the first half, and lost his mobility. He was sacked 6 or 7 times. Sidbury was very good and very mobile. He hurt UM a lot, especially in first half. 4 sacks and 4 TFLs. Bergquist could barely run after tightening up at half time. That severely hurt his game and the offense. The o-line was not dominant in that game. I think one other guy was hurting bad too.

 

[PlayerRep]

I know how good the cat and weber defense was this year....yet they had no chance vs. the OFFENSIVE LINES of the two playing for the championship.....until or unless the Griz get to that level, imo ,we have no chance of playing for the championship of the fcs.......

I disagree. If we can find the right QB and a coach that truly understands the short passing game, we can beat a team with a superior offensive line. The Griz never have and never will have a totally dominant offensive line. Don Read was the last coach that understood the short passing game. Bobby is better on his second go around but still hasn't got if figured out. I hoped Stitt was going to be the guy but he was clueless. Maybe if the current coaches read Read's book.

Please define "truly understands the short passing game..." Many on here have bitched for years that that's the ONLY passing game we have....

Complete quarterbacking is the title of the book. My point is the quarterback position is one guy, the offensive line is 5. Montana can get one dominant QB but not 5 dominate offensive lineman.

A dominate o-line does not need 5 dominant o-lineman .

 

[BillingsMafia]

I disagree. If we can find the right QB and a coach that truly understands the short passing game, we can beat a team with a superior offensive line. The Griz never have and never will have a totally dominant offensive line. Don Read was the last coach that understood the short passing game. Bobby is better on his second go around but still hasn't got if figured out. I hoped Stitt was going to be the guy but he was clueless. Maybe if the current coaches read Read's book.

Please define "truly understands the short passing game..." Many on here have bitched for years that that's the ONLY passing game we have....

Complete quarterbacking is the title of the book. My point is the quarterback position is one guy, the offensive line is 5. Montana can get one dominant QB but not 5 dominate offensive lineman.

A dominate o-like does not need 5 dominant o-lineman .

My point is this, if the Griz can get the right quarterback next year, they could win the national championship. The original post stated they have no chance.

 

[BillingsMafia]

and I get the last word on this.