No one knows where people are getting infected

[maroonandsilver]

There is currently a long-time Athletic Dept. staffer (not a coach) in ICU at Community Hospital with Covid. I'm not releasing the name for privacy reasons.

 

[SoldierGriz]

Compare obesity rates of the elderly in those states to those in SK and you'll have your answer.

Obesity has zero to do with South Korea's success. https://undark.org/2020/10/05/south-korea-covid-19-success/

For South Korea along with Japan, this isn't their first viral rodeo. They know how to deal with Covid from experience & are winning the battle so far. They took a different route from Japan & placed their focus on contact tracing. Overall, South Korea, a country of roughly 52 million — about six times smaller than the U.S. population — has had more than 300 times fewer cases than the U.S. You can argue that this level of contract tracing is invasion of privacy and some in South Korea do as well, but you can't argue with their results compared to ours. South Korea isn't screwing around with politics or Covid. They have a plan, leadership and results.

Agree with the helpful cultural norms. They are also a far more healthy society than we are.

Life expectancy in S Korea is close to 83 years.

Life expectancy in US is close to 79 years.

Health overall in their general population does indeed make a big difference.

 

[TrueGriz]

For those who actually pay attention to science, here is a link to a Danish study regarding effectiveness of masks. https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817 .

In short, the study found no evidence that masks prevent infection. The authors were careful to note that the study did not identify whether community wide use of masks might reduce transmission, since the study was done when no community wide mask mandates were in place.

The study seems in line with simple anecdotal evidence as well, such as the Missoula community, where a mask mandate has been in place since July, is highly adhered to, yet the rate of transmission has increased dramatically since then.

I'm not an anti masker and always wear one when I'm out and its no big deal to wear one. But it's highly frustrating to hear people talk about how masks are some sort of silver bullet in controlling the spread - they simply are not and they can lead to a false sense of security.

Mask mandate in Missoula wasn't as adhered to as much as you think. Sure, employees wore their masks while working, but after work they meet up with each other without masks and spread the disease to each other. This is actually very good evidence that masks actually work. You have infected employees at the cashier stand working, but very few customers catching the virus from the cashier. but cashier after work takes off mask and whoops, he spreads it. I am getting this from a COVID update article from the Missoulian based on contact tracing. Major spread has been family spreading it to family, friends spreading it to friends, and co-workers spreading it to co-workers while not wearing masks.

The increase in Missoula started in September, not since the mask mandate. Although there was an increase after June 1st when Bullock opened up the state which was the motivation for the mask mandate. The Rate of spread or r-value was around 1 by the end of july and early august and stayed there pretty much until early september. Which was pretty good. The increase in Missoula started around September 10th, with the majority being 20 - 29 year olds. At one point, 20 - 29 years olds accounted for over 50% of the cases. But they eventually spread it to the older generations later in september, early October. Once it got to the older generations, the number of deaths increased.

As for the Mask Study in Denmark, it had so many problems that it does not provide any evidence at all that masks do not work. For one, it was conducted at a time when COVID19 wasn't as prevalent in Denmark as it was in the US. Also, Only 46% of the mask wearers said they followed the rules. 7% did not follow the rules at all. For this study to work the way that Denmarket did it, the mask wearers would have to wear them all the time, even when meeting with friends and family.

But instead, The Danish study really examined the effect of recommending mask use, not the effect of actually wearing them.

 

[tourist]

they are small until you or someone you love is one of them.

Those you express concern about are part of the numerator, not the denominator.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Pick six!

 

[ranco]

You can paint the study as you like but the evidence shows they are ineffective at preventing infections. Also, this is not the first study of masks and whether they prevent the transmission of airborne viruses, this has been studied for a long time. Covid is believed to spread in the same way as other respiratory viruses - through droplets and aerosols. Numerous prior studies have shown that masks provide little benefit in preventing transmissions of those prior viruses.

I don't have any science about adherence to the policy in Missoula, just personal observation, which in the last several weeks included multiple trips to grocery stores, restaurants, department stores and a host of other stores. I didn't see a single person without a mask - outside of people who were eating or drinking. Yet, today, Missoula set a record for daily recorded cases.

Your example of people being at work - wearing a mask - and then socializing with friends without a mask further proves the point, because the infected person within the social group inevitable caught the virus while at a public location where masks were required. After all, that is the basic definition of community spread.

Again, I'm not an anti-masker and actually believe they may have a marginal benefit which is better than nothing. Since they are easy to wear, why not do it. However, people are being very naïve if they think masks can control this pandemic.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

You can paint the study as you like but the evidence shows they are ineffective at preventing infections. Also, this is not the first study of masks and whether they prevent the transmission of airborne viruses, this has been studied for a long time. Covid is believed to spread in the same way as other respiratory viruses - through droplets and aerosols. Numerous prior studies have shown that masks provide little benefit in preventing transmissions of those prior viruses.

I don't have any science about adherence to the policy in Missoula, just personal observation, which in the last several weeks included multiple trips to grocery stores, restaurants, department stores and a host of other stores. I didn't see a single person without a mask - outside of people who were eating or drinking. Yet, today, Missoula set a record for daily recorded cases.

Your example of people being at work - wearing a mask - and then socializing with friends without a mask further proves the point, because the infected person within the social group inevitable caught the virus while at a public location where masks were required. After all, that is the basic definition of community spread.

Again, I'm not an anti-masker and actually believe they may have a marginal benefit which is better than nothing. Since they are easy to wear, why not do it. However, people are being very naïve if they think masks can control this pandemic.

Pretty sure the argument has never been that masks alone would control the pandemic.

 

[TrueGriz]

...
Your example of people being at work - wearing a mask - and then socializing with friends without a mask further proves the point, because the infected person within the social group inevitable caught the virus while at a public location where masks were required. After all, that is the basic definition of community spread.

...

Actually, no That doesn't prove your point at all. It only proves that the infected person may have caught it somewhere else without a mask or maybe wearing a mask but NOT socially distancing himself by 6 feet or more.

A mask AND socially distancing at least 6 feet is very effective at reducing the spread. And has been shown to be very effective. Problem is, people are not following that guideline.

You do realize the mask is not to protect you, but protect other people from you, right? I have seen very many studies about this and those studies were duplicated with same result. The mask reduces the distance that your breath goes. A double layered cloth reduces the distance less than 6 feet. Therefore, a double layered cloth mask and stay at least 6 feet, it is very effective.

The moral of the story, stay away from all in door places with poor ventilation, Grocery stores, restaurants, bars, and casinos where you can't social distance. Those places are bad places to be, especially for employees that have to work in those places.

 

[TrueGriz]

You can paint the study as you like but the evidence shows they are ineffective at preventing infections. Also, this is not the first study of masks and whether they prevent the transmission of airborne viruses, this has been studied for a long time. Covid is believed to spread in the same way as other respiratory viruses - through droplets and aerosols. Numerous prior studies have shown that masks provide little benefit in preventing transmissions of those prior viruses.

I actually have seen other studies like the link you provided, but they also have had serious problems. I am pretty sure the studies you are referring to are just as bad as the Denmark study you provided a link to. I painted the study the way I did is because that Denmark study didn't prove anything at all except for indicating how many people will comply with the rules. Half the people in the study didn't even comply with it. Kind of like what is happening here in the states and why there is a high spread.

 

[argh!]

Those you express concern about are part of the numerator, not the denominator.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Pick six!

more like a lost a whole season...

 

[MikeyGriz]

they are small until you or someone you love is one of them.

Those you express concern about are part of the numerator, not the denominator.

I was promised there would be no math!

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Compare obesity rates of the elderly in those states to those in SK and you'll have your answer.

Obesity has zero to do with South Korea's success. https://undark.org/2020/10/05/south-korea-covid-19-success/

For South Korea along with Japan, this isn't their first viral rodeo. They know how to deal with Covid from experience & are winning the battle so far. They took a different route from Japan & placed their focus on contact tracing. Overall, South Korea, a country of roughly 52 million — about six times smaller than the U.S. population — has had more than 300 times fewer cases than the U.S. You can argue that this level of contract tracing is invasion of privacy and some in South Korea do as well, but you can't argue with their results compared to ours. South Korea isn't screwing around with politics or Covid. They have a plan, leadership and results.

First, no country knows how many citizens have had covid, only how many tests are positive. Second, test failure rates are off the chart so even those numbers are suspect. Given the asymptomatic rate for positives average close to 30%, and even higher in the young and healthy, we are way farther along to herd immunity than can be measured. Third, if you believe infection data from authoritarian regimes i have bridges and beachfront at special prices for you. Fourt, evdry person in our county that has died was over 70 and in extremely poor health. Our 104 year old still active on the ranch came through his infection with mild symptoms. Sixth, I've been in the orient and they don't have obesity or diabetes like the good old US. Read the stats on comorbidites and death. Then try thinking about what is true, not agenda opinions. This virus is only doing what viruses do.

 

[Spanky2]

Wonderful to hear about the 104 year old!

 

[uofmman1122]

Obesity has zero to do with South Korea's success. https://undark.org/2020/10/05/south-korea-covid-19-success/

For South Korea along with Japan, this isn't their first viral rodeo. They know how to deal with Covid from experience & are winning the battle so far. They took a different route from Japan & placed their focus on contact tracing. Overall, South Korea, a country of roughly 52 million — about six times smaller than the U.S. population — has had more than 300 times fewer cases than the U.S. You can argue that this level of contract tracing is invasion of privacy and some in South Korea do as well, but you can't argue with their results compared to ours. South Korea isn't screwing around with politics or Covid. They have a plan, leadership and results.

First, no country knows how many citizens have had covid, only how many tests are positive. Second, test failure rates are off the chart so even those numbers are suspect. Given the asymptomatic rate for positives average close to 30%, and even higher in the young and healthy, we are way farther along to herd immunity than can be measured. Third, if you believe infection data from authoritarian regimes i have bridges and beachfront at special prices for you. Fourt, evdry person in our county that has died was over 70 and in extremely poor health. Our 104 year old still active on the ranch came through his infection with mild symptoms. Sixth, I've been in the orient and they don't have obesity or diabetes like the good old US. Read the stats on comorbidites and death. Then try thinking about what is true, not agenda opinions. This virus is only doing what viruses do.

Wait....lol

Are you suggesting Japan or South Korea is an "authoritarian regime"?

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Obesity has zero to do with South Korea's success. https://undark.org/2020/10/05/south-korea-covid-19-success/

For South Korea along with Japan, this isn't their first viral rodeo. They know how to deal with Covid from experience & are winning the battle so far. They took a different route from Japan & placed their focus on contact tracing. Overall, South Korea, a country of roughly 52 million — about six times smaller than the U.S. population — has had more than 300 times fewer cases than the U.S. You can argue that this level of contract tracing is invasion of privacy and some in South Korea do as well, but you can't argue with their results compared to ours. South Korea isn't screwing around with politics or Covid. They have a plan, leadership and results.

First, no country knows how many citizens have had covid, only how many tests are positive. Second, test failure rates are off the chart so even those numbers are suspect. Given the asymptomatic rate for positives average close to 30%, and even higher in the young and healthy, we are way farther along to herd immunity than can be measured. Third, if you believe infection data from authoritarian regimes i have bridges and beachfront at special prices for you. Fourt, evdry person in our county that has died was over 70 and in extremely poor health. Our 104 year old still active on the ranch came through his infection with mild symptoms. Sixth, I've been in the orient and they don't have obesity or diabetes like the good old US. Read the stats on comorbidites and death. Then try thinking about what is true, not agenda opinions. This virus is only doing what viruses do.

Fifth! Where is fifth?!!! The people deserve to know fifth!

 

[Cuervohola]

Well, my absolute Hero is California Governor Newsom. Not only is he the Governor, but he is also a SUPER Virologist that has identified the virus is a "High School or College" type partying virus that sleeps all day and only comes out at night. Whew, thank God I am past the partying phase.

Between avoiding the active times for the virus, avoiding having more than 10 people around me, because 11 is the kicker, and of course making sure to wear a mask between bites, I think I'm going to be A-okay.

I do wish someday to be real rich so I can eat in fancy restaurants right next to people and not wear a mask. The virus isn't attracted to rich people. When I'm rich, I'll make sure to build a giant house on the Coast and change my voter registration to Liberal so the "Global Warming" doesn't flood my house. Whew! Without all these Leftist Dictators, I don't know if I could breathe on my own!

Thanks, Gubner!

Now, if it all goes wrong, I can always go smoke some legal Meth and Crack in Oregon!

 

[PlayerRep]

"Some 10,000 people have died of the coronavirus in Italy this month — a per capita rate more than double that of the United States." WaPost.

 

[SoldierGriz]

"Some 10,000 people have died of the coronavirus in Italy this month — a per capita rate more than double that of the United States." WaPost.

Smokers....

They love their cigs in Italy...

 

[IdaGriz01]

"Some 10,000 people have died of the coronavirus in Italy this month — a per capita rate more than double that of the United States." WaPost.

Smokers....

They love their cigs in Italy...

And, unless things have changed there (been awhile), they much prefer brands with some oomph to them.

 

[EverettGriz]

Obesity has zero to do with South Korea's success. https://undark.org/2020/10/05/south-korea-covid-19-success/

For South Korea along with Japan, this isn't their first viral rodeo. They know how to deal with Covid from experience & are winning the battle so far. They took a different route from Japan & placed their focus on contact tracing. Overall, South Korea, a country of roughly 52 million — about six times smaller than the U.S. population — has had more than 300 times fewer cases than the U.S. You can argue that this level of contract tracing is invasion of privacy and some in South Korea do as well, but you can't argue with their results compared to ours. South Korea isn't screwing around with politics or Covid. They have a plan, leadership and results.

First, no country knows how many citizens have had covid, only how many tests are positive. Second, test failure rates are off the chart so even those numbers are suspect. Given the asymptomatic rate for positives average close to 30%, and even higher in the young and healthy, we are way farther along to herd immunity than can be measured. Third, if you believe infection data from authoritarian regimes i have bridges and beachfront at special prices for you. Fourt, evdry person in our county that has died was over 70 and in extremely poor health. Our 104 year old still active on the ranch came through his infection with mild symptoms. Sixth, I've been in the orient and they don't have obesity or diabetes like the good old US. Read the stats on comorbidites and death. Then try thinking about what is true, not agenda opinions. This virus is only doing what viruses do.

My intention is not to be rude, so forgive me if it appears that way.

But there is a ridiculous amount of fail in this post.

 

[AZGrizFan]

First, no country knows how many citizens have had covid, only how many tests are positive. Second, test failure rates are off the chart so even those numbers are suspect. Given the asymptomatic rate for positives average close to 30%, and even higher in the young and healthy, we are way farther along to herd immunity than can be measured. Third, if you believe infection data from authoritarian regimes i have bridges and beachfront at special prices for you. Fourt, evdry person in our county that has died was over 70 and in extremely poor health. Our 104 year old still active on the ranch came through his infection with mild symptoms. Sixth, I've been in the orient and they don't have obesity or diabetes like the good old US. Read the stats on comorbidites and death. Then try thinking about what is true, not agenda opinions. This virus is only doing what viruses do.

My intention is not to be rude, so forgive me if it appears that way.

But there is a ridiculous amount of fail in this post.

Please outline it then. The only thing I can see is that he missed “Fifth”.

Well that, and not EVERY person has been over 70. Only 97.6% of the deaths (ok, I made that number up).