More trouble for Mr. Donaldson

[Growler1]

More than half of all rape arrests end in dismissal or acquittal, according to stats I've seen, including this one.

"Less than half of those arrested for rape are convicted, 54% of all rape prosecutions end in either dismissal or acquittal"

http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=50499" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So 54% of reported rapes didn't happen and the girls were lying?

That seems to be what you're implying.

Don't you get it? Playa Rape could care less about whether our players actually commit murder, pistol-whipping, armed robbery, girlfriend-beating, or rape. If they can get the charges dismissed on some technicality, then everything is peachy-keen and back to routine in Grizland. And he's one of the "good fans", don't you know?

 

[grizindabox]

Stupidity if dang funny. PlayerRep, Savage, and Growler are top notch comics. :thumb:

GFY

Good One :roll:

 

[GrizLA]

If true, this is terrible for all involved (victim obviously, families, Beau, Griz community, etc). There is no excuse for this, period. The court process will hopefully take care of this appropriately.

On the other hand, the coaching staff, athletic department, and administration needs to get this stuff figured out. I'm sure that none of the recruiters could've foretold any of these legal issues when they recruited a kid....but something has got to be done soon to avoid this stuff from happening once the kids get here. Too much bad publicity from athletes in the Griz community. As a UM grad, I'm ashamed. Each time stuff like this happens, it gets harder to whole-heartedly recommend UM for my family's or friends' kids to attend. I will always recommend, but it gets more difficult to do it without some reservations.

And if Beau did this, I hope he is prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

I agree we need prosecute all involved. The football team needs to be cleaned up. With that said I fear the team may just be the tip of an ice berg, the part that is visable easist to address, while the bigger part is harder to see and deal with. The morals and values in our society right now scare me and Montana is not isolated and insulated from the bad (inspite of the opinion posted in the Missoulian). The shock that many of us feel or felt in the past is not there for many when they hear of or see things happening now. Maybe desensitized by the daily news reports, video games, movies, TV shows, the mass spread of anything on the internet, I don't know, maybe it is all starting to seem normal that it is just part of life and what people do. More and more our society and the world is becoming more egocentric. Self is all that matters. Listen to your kids talk to their friends. Many do not trust anyone and think everyone is out to do bad. They really do not like others and are more and more isolated. (Maybe from being Bullied in school. The Boys will be Boys or it is what middle school and high school Girls do attitude as a down play of behavior is not good.) From our Male side we are suppose to look out for our Ladies. But it seems to be becoming a lost value. How can they learn it when they sit on their beds, with headphones and mics on their head, and their social contact is through a violent video game. (This was my son and his friends the same age as Beau). Sex to many is not a big deal and not really something special. It should be.

To defend someone by saying they are a good person is weak at best. How do we know what is really inside the minds of another. How many major criminals when caught have had people who knew them shocked by what they did. The football team needs to be cleaned up.....but the bigger job will take much longer and needs to address much more parts of our community and society.

Very good observation. In fact, the electronic gizmo age is destroying communication on all levels and when that goes, what is left? Internet anonymity breeds a verbal violence. look at this board as an average example. I see parents and kids focusing on cell phones, ipods, etc rather than developing an ability to actually converse. AH WELL, that's the new world..we will find a way to adapt, violence, disrespect, and stupidity being dealt with. As for the racial connotations I read here, it might suprise the most obvious of them here, that Los Angeles, the most diverse city in the country, if not the world, once had entire areas to avoid, now has a crime rate at 35 year lows yet millions of more people and largely minority......but, don't let facts interfere with bigotry...if this thread is any indication, most people see the hypocrisy of all this...The only thing that truly matters here is that the antisocial actions in the athletic program, specifically the football program be stopped and if that takes ZERO tolerance, then that is what it takes. This new UM president needs to look at the Big Picture and not the bottom line...If he does not institute firm and steady enforcement he should go.....He is the executive..not the coach, not the GSA, no one...he runs the show.....

 

[GoGrizOpponents]

I find it ironic that when it is a Montana kid everyone is saying "innocent until proven guilty." but when its an out of state kid yall rake him over the coals saying "guilty until proven innocent"


In most if not all cases people are arrested for a reason.

But 2056 got it right when askin if it were just the cops pickin on the athletes...


This sh!t makes me sick, this is beyond rivalry. When you are talented enough and are chosen to represent the school and play athletics on any level, grow the f*ck up and be a good person (even if you werent in the past) millions of kids look up to college and pro athletes, and it makes me pissed off when I see any news like this. Cat or Griz.

 

[behappp]

Whether these problems were caused by kids that Hauck recruited or not, they are now Coach Pflu and the current administration's problem. If this did happen after the previous events that are being investigated, then that is even worse.

There cannot be a reactive attitude, there must be a proactive program put into place immediately. A zero-tolerance policy is too late. Just because it is the off-season is no reason that you can't have meetings with the team, captains, etc. They must be made aware that not only are they going to be held to the standards of society and the law, but as representatives of the University of Montana, they need to conduct themselves according to a higher standard. They will be scrutinized differently as public personas and need to be told that when recruited and it needs to be repeated throughout their Griz career.

As a student-athlete just because you can get laid, doesn't mean you should. The fact is that even if you think it is consensual at the time, if the woman changes her mind and decides to file charges, you will be treated differently than other students. Getting high, hosting loud parties at 2AM, drinking and driving,etc, can all present more problems for the athlete and the school than for the average student. You will end up on the front page of the paper not in section B. It may not be fair, but it is a fact.

 

[Growler1]

Whether these problems were caused by kids that Hauck recruited or not, they are now Coach Pflu and the current administration's problem. If this did happen after the previous events that are being investigated, then that is even worse.

There cannot be a reactive attitude, there must be a proactive program put into place immediately. A zero-tolerance policy is too late. Just because it is the off-season is no reason that you can't have meetings with the team, captains, etc. They must be made aware that not only are they going to be held to the standards of society and the law, but as representatives of the University of Montana, they need to conduct themselves according to a higher standard. They will be scrutinized differently as public personas and need to be told that when recruited and it needs to be repeated throughout their Griz career.

As a student-athlete just because you can get laid, doesn't mean you should. The fact is that even if you think it is consensual at the time, if the woman changes her mind and decides to file charges, you will be treated differently than other students. Getting high, hosting loud parties at 2AM, drinking and driving,etc, can all present more problems for the athlete and the school than for the average student. You will end up on the front page of the paper not in section B. It may not be fair, but it is a fact.

Is a woman " changes her mind and decides to file charges"???? So, this girl just decided to ruin a kid's life and put him in jail because she had a change of heart after deciding to sleep with him? I have seen spin before, but this explanation takes the cake!

 

[Growler1]

Stupidity if dang funny. PlayerRep, Savage, and Growler are top notch comics. :thumb:

GFY

Good One :roll:

I thought that you would find it amusing, since you are so easily amused anyway. Might try posting something which takes a little reflection. But that may be asking too much of you.

 

[PlayerRep]

More than half of all rape arrests end in dismissal or acquittal, according to stats I've seen, including this one.

"Less than half of those arrested for rape are convicted, 54% of all rape prosecutions end in either dismissal or acquittal"

http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=50499" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So 54% of reported rapes didn't happen and the girls were lying?

That seems to be what you're implying.

Nope. The stat means exactly what it says: 54% of those arrested for rape are either dismissed or acquittted. That's all.

 

[PlayerRep]

More than half of all rape arrests end in dismissal or acquittal, according to stats I've seen, including this one.

"Less than half of those arrested for rape are convicted, 54% of all rape prosecutions end in either dismissal or acquittal"

http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=50499" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So 54% of reported rapes didn't happen and the girls were lying?

That seems to be what you're implying.

Don't you get it? Playa Rape could care less about whether our players actually commit murder, pistol-whipping, armed robbery, girlfriend-beating, or rape. If they can get the charges dismissed on some technicality, then everything is peachy-keen and back to routine in Grizland. And he's one of the "good fans", don't you know?

Feel free to point out any examples where charges were dismissed on a technicality. I can't think of any. Charges are dismissed or reduced significantly because the evidence isn't there to convict, the accuser backs off or changes the story, and/or the incident was over-charged in the first place.

 

[Tokyogriz]

In most if not all cases people are arrested for a reason.

Why bother with any sort of trial string every person arrested up and save us all the time and money.

Rape or Attempted is a charge that is very vague often and hard to prove or disprove. No one on this board really knows any details on this case nor should they till it all comes out in court. Then everyone can spew their usual bullshit that comes from all sides on this board. It is likely something has happend to trigger the initial accusation true, but was it rape? How the hell do you know unless you were there?

You and other cat fans talk shit when you have murderous drug runners in your program in the very recent past so please STFU.

Its very easy for all the internet tough guys to spew their usuall kill this guy or that guy hes guilty if accused of anything period. In real life the Univeristy has to actually follow our laws and respect the innocent until PROVEN guilty system for ALL STUDENTS in and out of state, black, white, yellow, red, etc...

All lot of the supposed anger you self righteous asshats come accross with is really misdirected. These young men and women involved in recent incidents are NOT CHILDREN! They are mostly in their early to mid 20s for christ sake! Thats a GROWN man or woman who needs to make better decisions or suffer the consequences not some 12 year olds who the teacher didnt watch carefully enough and keep in line.

Blaming the University of Montana is ridiculous for 95% of what you guys or gals talk about. Blame the men and women who created this situation in the first place. They are not CHILDREN!

As for the Montana State Internet troll asshooles and the select self righteous UM fans will not wait but will drivel on and on and on about their self annointed holiness before any real details and actual judicial process clarifies anything. MSU fans often, at least the trolls here, want to somehow feel better about themselves by attacking UM itself when grown adults who go to school here make mistakes. As for the self righteous annointed UM fans they just feel they are better than everyone else in the universe but fail to see themselves as part of the brown stuck on the bottom of the collective shoe of humanity.

That said I am not diminishing the seriousness of accusations posted just saying EVERYONE needs to let this process fully play out before anyone can form a half serious opinion. The missoulian reporter Gwen Florio really has created issues in this investigation that hopefully dont impair justice being served for any potential accused or victims. And the pitchfork mentality by real UM fans and trolling MSU assholes doesnt add a single bit of value to the outcome of this either. If you actually want to add something positive then Teach Your Own children right from wrong and stop expecting someone else to keep them in line.

 

[behappp]

Whether these problems were caused by kids that Hauck recruited or not, they are now Coach Pflu and the current administration's problem. If this did happen after the previous events that are being investigated, then that is even worse.

There cannot be a reactive attitude, there must be a proactive program put into place immediately. A zero-tolerance policy is too late. Just because it is the off-season is no reason that you can't have meetings with the team, captains, etc. They must be made aware that not only are they going to be held to the standards of society and the law, but as representatives of the University of Montana, they need to conduct themselves according to a higher standard. They will be scrutinized differently as public personas and need to be told that when recruited and it needs to be repeated throughout their Griz career.

As a student-athlete just because you can get laid, doesn't mean you should. The fact is that even if you think it is consensual at the time, if the woman changes her mind and decides to file charges, you will be treated differently than other students. Getting high, hosting loud parties at 2AM, drinking and driving,etc, can all present more problems for the athlete and the school than for the average student. You will end up on the front page of the paper not in section B. It may not be fair, but it is a fact.

Is a woman " changes her mind and decides to file charges"???? So, this girl just decided to ruin a kid's life and put him in jail because she had a change of heart after deciding to sleep with him? I have seen spin before, but this explanation takes the cake!

40 years ago I had sex with a woman who assented and a week later came to my apt. and said she had been talked into it and thought I had forced her into it. She gave no indication of this the night I had slept with her. I never saw her again and it was never brought up again and I have no doubt that I did not rape her or have sex without her consent. But she may have a different view.

My point is that if I had been charged and acquitted, it may have not been a major embarrassment to the school I was attending at the time, although it would have created problems for me personally, naturally. To say this never happens,I know from experience to be a lie.

As brought up in a separate post, many men accused of rape end being acquitted in a court of law. I am not putting spin on this situation as neither you nor I know the facts of this particular situation nor did I insinuate that that was the case here. If that was how it was perceived then that is a misperception. The fact that athletes will be treated differently is an absolute fact and these kids need to know that coming in to our program and need to be reminded of that often while they are here.

 

[KoolMoeDee]

UM fans often, at least the trolls here, want to somehow feel better about themselves by attacking MSU itself when grown adults who go to school there make mistakes.

FIFY

 

[mtgrizrule]

A fellow military member went through pure hell, after one of his encounters. One of the girls he dated, had sex with him. He told any and every girl he dated, from day one, he was not looking for a committed relationship, just fun. Most women in their late teens, and early 20's understand that, and make their decisions knowing what that means.

We heard him tell this to this girl too. She said, I understand that, so am I. Anyway, they had sex. After a month of her pursuing him for more, and him not being interested, she finally put up those kind of charges on him. Basically to ruin his life, and get even. It took close to a year for the law to run it's course. He was exonerated (sp?), and ended up to have a good life. However, it will scare him in certain circles rest of his life. He had to move away from the area, just to get a new start, and make new friends. After the whole nightmare, he went with committed relationships, and now a very happily married man, and great father.

I am sure there are many examples of things similar to this.

 

[Central MT Cat Fan]

I know nothing about the facts, but I know Donaldson and I have doubts that rape occurred or that this will stick. I think Donaldson is a good kid. I know good kids can get caught up with date rape-type things too, but my instincts tell me that he didn't rape anyone.

Did you really just say good kids rape girls??? Really???

No, this is what I said: "I know good kids can get caught up with date rape-type things too,"

Then they would no longer be good kids.

 

[PTGrizzly]

I think we can all agree that if you're getting arrested for rape, you're doing something wrong. The thing that makes me most suspicious this is actually a serious deal is the bail money. There was a guy a year or two ago that worked for us that got arrested for rape, bail was set at $20,000. Donaldson's bail is set at $100,000. That's a large difference. Granted, this was a different area (Bozeman) but it is still a stark difference in money. I find that concerning.

 

[PTGrizzly]

I know nothing about the facts, but I know Donaldson and I have doubts that rape occurred or that this will stick. I think Donaldson is a good kid. I know good kids can get caught up with date rape-type things too, but my instincts tell me that he didn't rape anyone.

Did you really just say good kids rape girls??? Really???

No, this is what I said: "I know good kids can get caught up with date rape-type things too,"

Then they would no longer be good kids.

LOL. I can't believe what PR is trying to say. Good kids don't get caught up with rape scenarios, good kids stay out of trouble. End of story.

 

[SAVAGE PAW]

Whether these problems were caused by kids that Hauck recruited or not, they are now Coach Pflu and the current administration's problem. If this did happen after the previous events that are being investigated, then that is even worse.

There cannot be a reactive attitude, there must be a proactive program put into place immediately. A zero-tolerance policy is too late. Just because it is the off-season is no reason that you can't have meetings with the team, captains, etc. They must be made aware that not only are they going to be held to the standards of society and the law, but as representatives of the University of Montana, they need to conduct themselves according to a higher standard. They will be scrutinized differently as public personas and need to be told that when recruited and it needs to be repeated throughout their Griz career.

As a student-athlete just because you can get laid, doesn't mean you should. The fact is that even if you think it is consensual at the time, if the woman changes her mind and decides to file charges, you will be treated differently than other students. Getting high, hosting loud parties at 2AM, drinking and driving,etc, can all present more problems for the athlete and the school than for the average student. You will end up on the front page of the paper not in section B. It may not be fair, but it is a fact.

Is a woman " changes her mind and decides to file charges"???? So, this girl just decided to ruin a kid's life and put him in jail because she had a change of heart after deciding to sleep with him? I have seen spin before, but this explanation takes the cake!

Growler,
Fundamentally you and I are in agreement on this issue. However don't think phony charges have never been brought before. Many many women have been prosecuted for filing phony rape claims attempting to ruin someones life.

 

[SAVAGE PAW]

A fellow military member went through pure hell, after one of his encounters. One of the girls he dated, had sex with him. He told any and every girl he dated, from day one, he was not looking for a committed relationship, just fun. Most women in their late teens, and early 20's understand that, and make their decisions knowing what that means.

We heard him tell this to this girl too. She said, I understand that, so am I. Anyway, they had sex. After a month of her pursuing him for more, and him not being interested, she finally put up those kind of charges on him. Basically to ruin his life, and get even. It took close to a year for the law to run it's course. He was exonerated (sp?), and ended up to have a good life. However, it will scare him in certain circles rest of his life. He had to move away from the area, just to get a new start, and make new friends. After the whole nightmare, he went with committed relationships, and now a very happily married man, and great father.

I am sure there are many examples of things similar to this.

This is a very real senario and I know of one just like it. There are women that when scorned will stop at nothing to ruin a guys life. The very sad part about is that phony charges detract from the seriousness of real rape charges and cause people to have doubt.

 

[PlayerRep]

I know nothing about the facts, but I know Donaldson and I have doubts that rape occurred or that this will stick. I think Donaldson is a good kid. I know good kids can get caught up with date rape-type things too, but my instincts tell me that he didn't rape anyone.

Did you really just say good kids rape girls??? Really???

No, this is what I said: "I know good kids can get caught up with date rape-type things too,"

Then they would no longer be good kids.

I don't think being charged with rape, especially when over half have the charges are eventually dismissed or the accused wins an acquittal, automatically means someone is a bad person. Some are, but people make mistakes all the time. It doesn't necessarily mean they are bad people.

 

[PlayerRep]

I think we can all agree that if you're getting arrested for rape, you're doing something wrong. The thing that makes me most suspicious this is actually a serious deal is the bail money. There was a guy a year or two ago that worked for us that got arrested for rape, bail was set at $20,000. Donaldson's bail is set at $100,000. That's a large difference. Granted, this was a different area (Bozeman) but it is still a stark difference in money. I find that concerning.

The bail amount was presumably taken off a list. It was not "set". A judge will set the bail next week.