What Came 1st, The Snap, or the Timeout?

[PlayerRep]

So, I just watched the replay...On this play, the refs all came in waiving their hands signalling a timeout. I didn't see any of them signal a TD. the first one to rush in was the back guy (head ref?) and the side ref on the bobcat sideline...

What? Really?? Well that doesn't fit the narative at all, and obviously they never played the game. Those refs almost all seemed to know that the time out was going to be called?? They, dare I say, conspired to rob egrizzers of this game - not that eggrizzers care whether the griz beat the Cats, we all know only Cat fans care about the outcome of this game........

To be honest, I think a play that really got overlooked, was the fumble by Sneed....was it really one?

I thought it was a fumble in real time and on the replay at the game. Didn't look at it later.

The no calls on the late hit out of bounds and the helmet being taken off were worse. Clear, and both would have extended UM drives. But I'm fine with the Cats winning. They played very hard in their comeback, made a huge play at the end, Anderson was terrific, and Choate called 2 key TO's.

 

[SACCAT66]

Here is the proof at long last...From this angle he is clearly not at the endzone...(photo courtesy of Skyline Sports)

Extrapolating the yard lines would confirm that he is indeed standing well outside the players' box, which we all know is illegal when calling a timeout. It doesn't matter, however, as any trained eye can see his shadow in front of the green screen. The middle finger on Choach's right hand is taped above the second knuckle. Those connected know that he sliced that finger on Thanksgiving Day trying to show off by carving the turkey lefty, and not before the game. This picture was taken in the basement of a house on East Babcock Street. Kubrick lives.

Also....the house was on Koch not East Babcock.

 

[SACCAT66]

17!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The.Real.2506]

So, I just watched the replay...On this play, the refs all came in waiving their hands signalling a timeout. I didn't see any of them signal a TD. the first one to rush in was the back guy (head ref?) and the side ref on the bobcat sideline...

What? Really?? Well that doesn't fit the narative at all, and obviously they never played the game. Those refs almost all seemed to know that the time out was going to be called?? They, dare I say, conspired to rob egrizzers of this game - not that eggrizzers care whether the griz beat the Cats, we all know only Cat fans care about the outcome of this game........

To be honest, I think a play that really got overlooked, was the fumble by Sneed....was it really one?

I agree with that, but didn't they review it and it say it "stands".

 

[cclarkblues]

Here is the proof at long last...From this angle he is clearly not at the endzone...(photo courtesy of Skyline Sports)

If that is an envelope of cash he is holding up, he can call time out wherever he wants to.

 

[AZGrizFan]

You DID it, people! Way to go! 17 pages!!!

 

[Fahque]

Fascinating thread / discussion. (NOT!)

Remind me again: What was the point at issue?

To find out what occurred on the play, and when, and what, exactly, the rule is.

Feel free to answer all those questions with accuracy. Otherwise, don't post in this thread.

It's already been answered and confirmed several times... so what are you missing or what am I missing? Choate told the ref face to fact to be ready because he was going to call a timeout before the next play. He then signaled for TO before the ball was snapped, done deal. Someone posted above the Coach can go out side of the coaches area, as far as they need to go in order to get close enough to a ref to call a time out? This was all very clear on the replay as well, and it was completely legal and in fact a brilliant coaching move. It's why the Choate-led Cats won the game. There is nothing left to discuss.

Why are you guys so hung up on the claim that he told the referee ahead of time he was going to call timeout? That is the most irrelevant fact (if it even is a fact) of your entire argument. At question is whether or not he was standing by the referee the entire time or whether or not he ran from the coaches box down to where the referee was standing to call timeout.

Disclaimer: I am replying to a post from a few pages back have not finished reading the thread so possibly this was addressed.

 

[getgrizzy]

Yes, Fahque, it is irrelevant. I think Cat fans are hung up on that because Choate can be seen saying “I’m going to call a timeout” on camera (he appeared to say that to other coaches in the booth) and Choate then stated that when asked about the play in the press conference, but it doesn’t matter if he said that or not. Or if he said that to the ref or not.

The only thing that matters in the entire discussion is whether or not an official heard Choate call for a timeout prior to the snap. It doesn’t appear that there’s video of Choate doing that, so it’s up to each individual to decide if they think the ref accidentally or purposely granted Choate a timeout when he heard Choate call a timeout after the snap. I don’t believe the crowd noise played a factor since we had the ball, so I’m fairly certain several refs could’ve heard Choate. Question is: was the call made before or after the snap? Considering all that I think he most likely called it in time, but I can’t say for sure.

It doesn’t matter if he was standing next to the ref on the goaline or in the coaching box or five yards in the end zone. It also doesn’t matter if the ball was snapped before the ref blew his whistle. And it also doesn’t matter if one or five other officials didn’t hear the timeout called and they all signaled touchdown. If one ref heard Choate say or saw him signal timeout before the snap, then the play is dead.

The entire discussion about where Choate was standing is cleared up by the rule that states a coach is allowed to leave the coaching box before the snap to call a timeout or ask for a replay. These are the only exceptions to the rule that coaches must stay in the coaching box.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I think we should try and keep this thread on the front page until fall ball starts.

We got this. We can DO this...come on fellas...

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Yes, Fahque, it is irrelevant. I think Cat fans are hung up on that because Choate can be seen saying “I’m going to call a timeout” on camera (he appeared to say that to other coaches in the booth) and Choate then stated that when asked about the play in the press conference, but it doesn’t matter if he said that or not. Or if he said that to the ref or not.

The only thing that matters in the entire discussion is whether or not an official heard Choate call for a timeout prior to the snap. It doesn’t appear that there’s video of Choate doing that, so it’s up to each individual to decide if they think the ref accidentally or purposely granted Choate a timeout when he heard Choate call a timeout after the snap. I don’t believe the crowd noise played a factor since we had the ball, so I’m fairly certain several refs could’ve heard Choate. Question is: was the call made before or after the snap? Considering all that I think he most likely called it in time, but I can’t say for sure.

It doesn’t matter if he was standing next to the ref on the goaline or in the coaching box or five yards in the end zone. It also doesn’t matter if the ball was snapped before the ref blew his whistle. And it also doesn’t matter if one or five other officials didn’t hear the timeout called and they all signaled touchdown. If one ref heard Choate say or saw him signal timeout before the snap, then the play is dead.

The entire discussion about where Choate was standing is cleared up by the rule that states a coach is allowed to leave the coaching box before the snap to call a timeout or ask for a replay. These are the only exceptions to the rule that coaches must stay in the coaching box.

Brilliant! The thread title!

 

[AZGrizFan]

Yes, Fahque, it is irrelevant. I think Cat fans are hung up on that because Choate can be seen saying “I’m going to call a timeout” on camera (he appeared to say that to other coaches in the booth) and Choate then stated that when asked about the play in the press conference, but it doesn’t matter if he said that or not. Or if he said that to the ref or not.

The only thing that matters in the entire discussion is whether or not an official heard Choate call for a timeout prior to the snap. It doesn’t appear that there’s video of Choate doing that, so it’s up to each individual to decide if they think the ref accidentally or purposely granted Choate a timeout when he heard Choate call a timeout after the snap. I don’t believe the crowd noise played a factor since we had the ball, so I’m fairly certain several refs could’ve heard Choate. Question is: was the call made before or after the snap? Considering all that I think he most likely called it in time, but I can’t say for sure.

It doesn’t matter if he was standing next to the ref on the goaline or in the coaching box or five yards in the end zone. It also doesn’t matter if the ball was snapped before the ref blew his whistle. And it also doesn’t matter if one or five other officials didn’t hear the timeout called and they all signaled touchdown. If one ref heard Choate say or saw him signal timeout before the snap, then the play is dead.

The entire discussion about where Choate was standing is cleared up by the rule that states a coach is allowed to leave the coaching box before the snap to call a timeout or ask for a replay. These are the only exceptions to the rule that coaches must stay in the coaching box.

Brilliant! The thread title!

A little slow on the uptake... :lol: :lol:

 

[Walkon79]

So, which ref called the TO? See below quote from Bill Speltz of the Missoulian:

"Montana State was granted a timeout on that play too, apparently calling for it just before the ball was snapped. No one seemed to realize, including the side judges, who signified touchdown with arms raised."

And note Hauck says the TO was "apparently" called.

"We were in the end zone and apparently they got the timeout called."

Only one official signaled touchdown, and he was the side judge on the Griz side.

 

[kyle_sample]

How is this still a thing? Choate called timeout (whether inside or outside the coaches box doesn't matter; coaches frequently run outside of the box to chase down an official for a late timeout) and then the Cats forced a fumble. It's been almost two months. Move on

 

[bgbigdog]

How is this still a thing?

Kyle. You do realize where you’re posting this... right? :lol:

 

[PlayerRep]

How is this still a thing? Choate called timeout (whether inside or outside the coaches box doesn't matter; coaches frequently run outside of the box to chase down an official for a late timeout) and then the Cats forced a fumble. It's been almost two months. Move on

An earlier comment of yours actually perpetuated the thread. You said something like: "Assuming Choate wasn't standing at the goal line or by the ref at the goal line".

Yes, running out of the coaches box is done, but the rule is that the coach must run to the closest ref. Did Choate?

I'm curious as to which ref called the TO. I haven't seen any screenshot or video, nor have I see a replay of the game. That would answer some questions.

Some of have said that Choate was standing by a ref at the goal line, gearing up to call TO. If true, is that permitted, especially if the closest ref is somewhere closer to the coaches box? I don't know, but am curious. I don't know where Choate was.

If someone has video on the play, that might clear up some things.

Refs make mistakes all the time. It isn't answer to me, to say that a ref made a call, so it must have been right and done right.

I will move on after I have better answers.

 

[PlayerRep]

So, which ref called the TO? See below quote from Bill Speltz of the Missoulian:

"Montana State was granted a timeout on that play too, apparently calling for it just before the ball was snapped. No one seemed to realize, including the side judges, who signified touchdown with arms raised."

And note Hauck says the TO was "apparently" called.

"We were in the end zone and apparently they got the timeout called."

Only one official signaled touchdown, and he was the side judge on the Griz side.

Which ref called the TO? Where was Choate standing? Thanks.

 

[catsack]

So, which ref called the TO? See below quote from Bill Speltz of the Missoulian:

"Montana State was granted a timeout on that play too, apparently calling for it just before the ball was snapped. No one seemed to realize, including the side judges, who signified touchdown with arms raised."

And note Hauck says the TO was "apparently" called.

"We were in the end zone and apparently they got the timeout called."

Only one official signaled touchdown, and he was the side judge on the Griz side.

Which ref called the TO? Where was Choate standing? Thanks.

With you being an insider with the coaches, what do they say about it and certainly they have a camera angle that shows it?

 

[PlayerRep]

So, which ref called the TO? See below quote from Bill Speltz of the Missoulian:

"Montana State was granted a timeout on that play too, apparently calling for it just before the ball was snapped. No one seemed to realize, including the side judges, who signified touchdown with arms raised."

And note Hauck says the TO was "apparently" called.

"We were in the end zone and apparently they got the timeout called."

Only one official signaled touchdown, and he was the side judge on the Griz side.

Which ref called the TO? Where was Choate standing? Thanks.

With you being an insider with the coaches, what do they say about it and certainly they have a camera angle that shows it?

I'm mostly in places like Cozumel, Big Sky, Jamaica, these days. Not going to call coaches for something like this. May or may not ask if I ran into them. Saw and talked to a bunch of them at Mo Club X-mas party, but didn't talk about stupid message board stuff.

 

[catsack]

Only one official signaled touchdown, and he was the side judge on the Griz side.

Which ref called the TO? Where was Choate standing? Thanks.

With you being an insider with the coaches, what do they say about it and certainly they have a camera angle that shows it?

I'm mostly in places like Cozumel, Big Sky, Jamaica, these days. Not going to call coaches for something like this. May or may not ask if I ran into them. Saw and talked to a bunch of them at Mo Club X-mas party, but didn't talk about stupid message board stuff.

So why do you keep posting about it if it’s so petty?

 

[PlayerRep]

Which ref called the TO? Where was Choate standing? Thanks.

With you being an insider with the coaches, what do they say about it and certainly they have a camera angle that shows it?

I'm mostly in places like Cozumel, Big Sky, Jamaica, these days. Not going to call coaches for something like this. May or may not ask if I ran into them. Saw and talked to a bunch of them at Mo Club X-mas party, but didn't talk about stupid message board stuff.

So why do you keep posting about it if it’s so petty?

First and foremost, it was intended as a joke or humor. See recent post of CDA: "I think a lot of posters would do well to learn that PR is likely joking over half the time with the "played the game" stuff. From rank-and-file posters like Fat Bruno, to outspoken former frosh team players, I've witnessed PR messing with people without them knowing it for years."

The specific joke was a joke on me, i.e., as you pointed out, saying the subject was stupid message board stuff, yet I have been helping perpetuate it. See, I was poking fun at myself.

Also, in my view, "petty" is not necessarily the same as stupid message board stuff. In this case, while I didn't start the thread, it was an interesting and timely topic at the time, and I find it to have be interesting from a rule point of view, as well as from a factual point of view. I learned some things about the rule, i.e. that it's fine to stray far from the coaching box to find the closest ref. I also find it interesting that there is so much disagreement as to what actually occurred. Seeing video, which I have not done, would be instructive.