What Came 1st, The Snap, or the Timeout?

[SACCAT66]

Here is the proof at long last...From this angle he is clearly not at the endzone...(photo courtesy of Skyline Sports)

Doesn't a coach have to make more of a "T" sign when calling timeout? This looks like an "L" and the play sheet really distorts it. Doesn't the rule state that the "T" needs to be formed using the left had as the top of the "T" rather than the right?

You could be right...I think he also have to say "TIMEOUT TIMEOUT TIMEOUT TIMEOUT" instead of just saying it once....I will call Mark Emmert and find out for sure...

No Way is this real. No way would a reporter be looking at the MSU coach instead of the actual play! Can we change the name of this thread to 'POOOOOOOOOR Grizzlies!' ??

He probably heard Choate yelling "TIMEOUT TIMEOUT TIMEOUT TIMEOUT" and turned around to catch one of them.

 

[PlayerRep]

Here is the proof at long last...From this angle he is clearly not at the endzone...(photo courtesy of Skyline Sports)

Which TO was this? Choate called 2 TO's late in the last drive. Please provide more info.

Some posters have said Choate was standing by a ref, apparently ready to call a TO. Where's the resin this photo?

Also, look where Choate is looking. He is looking downfield, not across the field.

Thanks for this photo, but more is needed. This just shows Choate calling a TO from somewhere not on the goal line.

 

[PlayerRep]

Fascinating thread / discussion. (NOT!)

Remind me again: What was the point at issue?

To find out what occurred on the play, and when, and what, exactly, the rule is.

Feel free to answer all those questions with accuracy. Otherwise, don't post in this thread.

It's already been answered and confirmed several times... so what are you missing or what am I missing? Choate told the ref face to fact to be ready because he was going to call a timeout before the next play. He then signaled for TO before the ball was snapped, done deal. Someone posted above the Coach can go out side of the coaches area, as far as they need to go in order to get close enough to a ref to call a time out? This was all very clear on the replay as well, and it was completely legal and in fact a brilliant coaching move. It's why the Choate-led Cats won the game. There is nothing left to discuss.

Nope, it has not be answered and confirmed several times. Most of what occurred has been put on egriz is speculative and conclusory, and much of that conflicting.

The photo produced above doesn't show Choate calling the TO "face to face" with the ref. My guess is that photo was not of the last TO at end of game, but I don't know. Also, how does the ref see when the snap occurs if he is "face to face" with Choate?

No one has produced any hard evidence of when the TO was called, with regard to the snap. The only evidence is that the ref gave him the TO.

Yes, we now know more about the rule interpretation of going outside the box, to the closest ref, to call a TO.

I haven't seen a replay. Please post the replay. That would be helpful.

There is still plenty to discuss. Some of you are so imprecise, and lack so much intellectual curiosity, that I wonder how you can get through life everyday.

 

[Bear Spray]

Fascinating thread / discussion. (NOT!)

Remind me again: What was the point at issue?

To find out what occurred on the play, and when, and what, exactly, the rule is.

Feel free to answer all those questions with accuracy. Otherwise, don't post in this thread.

It's already been answered and confirmed several times... so what are you missing or what am I missing? Choate told the ref face to fact to be ready because he was going to call a timeout before the next play. He then signaled for TO before the ball was snapped, done deal. Someone posted above the Coach can go out side of the coaches area, as far as they need to go in order to get close enough to a ref to call a time out? This was all very clear on the replay as well, and it was completely legal and in fact a brilliant coaching move. It's why the Choate-led Cats won the game. There is nothing left to discuss.

Nope, it has not be answered and confirmed several times. Most of what occurred has been put on egriz is speculative and conclusory, and much of that conflicting.

The photo produced above doesn't show Choate calling the TO "face to face" with the ref. My guess is that photo was not of the last TO at end of game, but I don't know. Also, how does the ref see when the snap occurs if he is "face to face" with Choate?

No one has produced any hard evidence of when the TO was called, with regard to the snap. The only evidence is that the ref gave him the TO.

Yes, we now know more about the rule interpretation of going outside the box, to the closest ref, to call a TO.

I haven't seen a replay. Please post the replay. That would be helpful.

There is still plenty to discuss. Some of you are so imprecise, and lack so much intellectual curiosity, that I wonder how you can get through life everyday.

Cat griz replay is on www.plutotv.com channel 230 RIGHT NOW if you want to watch and tell us all how it really happened. I"d watch it again, but since I didn't play the game what's the point? I was and am a fan though: Poooooor Grizlies!!!!

 

[getgrizzy]

For this to be controversial, you’d have to assume that Choate asked for the timeout after the snap or that the ref didn’t hear the timeout being called, yet he went ahead a blew the play dead anyway. That could’ve happened. The game is being replayed on Pluto, so someone should record the final play and see if they can figure it out.

Other than that there’s nothing to question. Where Choate was standing is irrelevant based on the rule that states he can leave the coaching box to call timeout. It’s not a real complex or obscure rule, so if he wasn’t where he was supposed to be at any time the ref would’ve flagged him. It’s really hard to believe that a ref would be oblivious to that rule. If he did throw a flag, the call would’ve been reversed and we would’ve had to run the play again because the refs would’ve discussed it and decided that a timeout should’ve been awarded. If not, then the TD would’ve been allowed to stand and the officiating crew would’ve been reprimanded by the BSC.

 

[getgrizzy]

Someone could also call the league office and ask if there was anything illegal about the timeout call or if the officials made a mistake. Instead of trying to solve it on their own. That’d be a lot easier.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Remember that holding call against the Cats in 2001? Man, somebody should launch an investigation! I don't like the referees' trajectory.

 

[PlayerRep]

For this to be controversial, you’d have to assume that Choate asked for the timeout after the snap or that the ref didn’t hear the timeout being called, yet he went ahead a blew the play dead anyway. That could’ve happened. The game is being replayed on Pluto, so someone should record the final play and see if they can figure it out.

Other than that there’s nothing to question. Where Choate was standing is irrelevant based on the rule that states he can leave the coaching box to call timeout. It’s not a real complex or obscure rule, so if he wasn’t where he was supposed to be at any time the ref would’ve flagged him. It’s really hard to believe that a ref would be oblivious to that rule. If he did throw a flag, the call would’ve been reversed and we would’ve had to run the play again because the refs would’ve discussed it and decided that a timeout should’ve been awarded. If not, then the TD would’ve been allowed to stand and the officiating crew would’ve been reprimanded by the BSC.

Who's saying this is or should be controversial? I'm not. I'm just curious. We've made some advancement pn the rule, but nothing in the rule is definitive on what some said occurred (i.e. Choate was standing by the ref at the goal line; I don't know where Choate was, but I'm curious).

No, the rule does allow the coach to go anywhere he wants to call a TO. The rule says he must go to the closest ref. Where was the closest ref available to call a TO? I don't know which ref called the TO. Bill Spletz said both refs on the sideline (at line of scrimmage) signaled TD.

Refs make mistakes all the time. I don't buy that if Choate went to the wrong place, the ref would have flagged him.

One question I have is: on a play near the goal line, can the coach go ahead of the play to the sideline/goal line, to be close to the ref to call a TO?

Another question: if the coach doesn't call the TO, or calls it clearly after the snap, does or should the coach get penalized.

My view: I don't think the rule should allow a coach to stand by the ref on the goal line in preparation for calling a TO. It would seem to be too disruptive to the ref and to the game. My view is that the rule should allow the coach to run to the closest ref to get the ref's attention and immediately call a TO. The coaches box was created to keep coaches in that area.

 

[PlayerRep]

Someone could also call the league office and ask if there was anything illegal about the timeout call or if the officials made a mistake. Instead of trying to solve it on their own. That’d be a lot easier.

I doubt that the officials, or the head official, would provide information to anyone outside of the athletic department.

 

[Bear Spray]

For this to be controversial, you’d have to assume that Choate asked for the timeout after the snap or that the ref didn’t hear the timeout being called, yet he went ahead a blew the play dead anyway. That could’ve happened. The game is being replayed on Pluto, so someone should record the final play and see if they can figure it out.

Other than that there’s nothing to question. Where Choate was standing is irrelevant based on the rule that states he can leave the coaching box to call timeout. It’s not a real complex or obscure rule, so if he wasn’t where he was supposed to be at any time the ref would’ve flagged him. It’s really hard to believe that a ref would be oblivious to that rule. If he did throw a flag, the call would’ve been reversed and we would’ve had to run the play again because the refs would’ve discussed it and decided that a timeout should’ve been awarded. If not, then the TD would’ve been allowed to stand and the officiating crew would’ve been reprimanded by the BSC.

Who's saying this is or should be controversial? I'm not. I'm just curious. We've made some advancement pn the rule, but nothing in the rule is definitive on what some said occurred (i.e. Choate was standing by the ref at the goal line; I don't know where Choate was, but I'm curious).

No, the rule does allow the coach to go anywhere he wants to call a TO. The rule says he must go to the closest ref. Where was the closest ref available to call a TO? I don't know which ref called the TO. Bill Spletz said both refs on the sideline (at line of scrimmage) signaled TD.

Refs make mistakes all the time. I don't buy that if Choate went to the wrong place, the ref would have flagged him.

One question I have is: on a play near the goal line, can the coach go ahead of the play to the sideline/goal line, to be close to the ref to call a TO?

Another question: if the coach doesn't call the TO, or calls it clearly after the snap, does or should the coach get penalized.

My view: I don't think the rule should allow a coach to stand by the ref on the goal line in preparation for calling a TO. It would seem to be too disruptive to the ref and to the game. My view is that the rule should allow the coach to run to the closest ref to get the ref's attention and immediately call a TO. The coaches box was created to keep coaches in that area.

Seventeen! Seventeen! Seventeen! Griz are up 22 zip, doesn't look good for the Cats.......

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Here is the proof at long last...From this angle he is clearly not at the endzone...(photo courtesy of Skyline Sports)

Extrapolating the yard lines would confirm that he is indeed standing well outside the players' box, which we all know is illegal when calling a timeout. It doesn't matter, however, as any trained eye can see his shadow in front of the green screen. The middle finger on Choach's right hand is taped above the second knuckle. Those connected know that he sliced that finger on Thanksgiving Day trying to show off by carving the turkey lefty, and not before the game. This picture was taken in the basement of a house on East Babcock Street. Kubrick lives.

 

[SACCAT66]

Here is the proof at long last...From this angle he is clearly not at the endzone...(photo courtesy of Skyline Sports)

Extrapolating the yard lines would confirm that he is indeed standing well outside the players' box, which we all know is illegal when calling a timeout. It doesn't matter, however, as any trained eye can see his shadow in front of the green screen. The middle finger on Choach's right hand is taped above the second knuckle. Those connected know that he sliced that finger on Thanksgiving Day trying to show off by carving the turkey lefty, and not before the game. This picture was taken in the basement of a house on East Babcock Street. Kubrick lives.

Wait a minute...Could it be that Choate uses him middle finger to dial a phone? Maybe he has one of those old rotary land phones (My folks still have one at their house) and THAT is why he couldn't call a recruit at the end of October...It is all coming together...

 

[IHateRobPhenicie]

How (why) the hell is this thread still going?

 

[grizindabox]

Seriously....some people need to get an effn' life.

 

[ilovethecats]

How (why) the hell is this thread still going?

Because you just posted in it...? :?

 

[SACCAT66]

So, I just watched the replay...On this play, the refs all came in waiving their hands signalling a timeout. I didn't see any of them signal a TD. the first one to rush in was the back guy (head ref?) and the side ref on the bobcat sideline...

 

[PlayerRep]

So, I just watched the replay...On this play, the refs all came in waiving their hands signalling a timeout. I didn't see any of them signal a TD. the first one to rush in was the back guy (head ref?) and the side ref on the bobcat sideline...

Sorry, I don't believe you. I looked at the refs on the sides in real time (looking for their signal and any flag) and thought they both were signaling TD. The one on the east side line was for sure. I also looked at the other ref and thought he too was signally TD (I suppose he could have been signally TO, but that's not what I thought at the time). All to my recollection. Note that Bill Spletz said both refs on the sideline were signally TD.

If it was the back guy closest to the Cats, then that might explain some things. I.e. that no one else saw or heard the TO call/whistle. And that ref may have been outside of my view right after the play ended. And that would indicate that Choate was not at the goal line, as multiple posters have indicated. Also, some posters have said Choate was standing by a ref, seeming to indicate he was going to call TO.

Put the replay up, so all can see. Your credibility on this is not good.

 

[Bear Spray]

So, I just watched the replay...On this play, the refs all came in waiving their hands signalling a timeout. I didn't see any of them signal a TD. the first one to rush in was the back guy (head ref?) and the side ref on the bobcat sideline...

What? Really?? Well that doesn't fit the narative at all, and obviously they never played the game. Those refs almost all seemed to know that the time out was going to be called?? They, dare I say, conspired to rob egrizzers of this game - not that eggrizzers care whether the griz beat the Cats, we all know only Cat fans care about the outcome of this game........

 

[SACCAT66]

So, I just watched the replay...On this play, the refs all came in waiving their hands signalling a timeout. I didn't see any of them signal a TD. the first one to rush in was the back guy (head ref?) and the side ref on the bobcat sideline...

What? Really?? Well that doesn't fit the narative at all, and obviously they never played the game. Those refs almost all seemed to know that the time out was going to be called?? They, dare I say, conspired to rob egrizzers of this game - not that eggrizzers care whether the griz beat the Cats, we all know only Cat fans care about the outcome of this game........

To be honest, I think a play that really got overlooked, was the fumble by Sneed....was it really one?

 

[SACCAT66]

So, I just watched the replay...On this play, the refs all came in waiving their hands signalling a timeout. I didn't see any of them signal a TD. the first one to rush in was the back guy (head ref?) and the side ref on the bobcat sideline...

Sorry, I don't believe you. I looked at the refs on the sides in real time (looking for their signal and any flag) and thought they both were signaling TD. The one on the east side line was for sure. I also looked at the other ref and thought he too was signally TD (I suppose he could have been signally TO, but that's not what I thought at the time). All to my recollection. Note that Bill Spletz said both refs on the sideline were signally TD.

If it was the back guy closest to the Cats, then that might explain some things. I.e. that no one else saw or heard the TO call/whistle. And that ref may have been outside of my view right after the play ended. And that would indicate that Choate was not at the goal line, as multiple posters have indicated. Also, some posters have said Choate was standing by a ref, seeming to indicate he was going to call TO.

Put the replay up, so all can see. Your credibility on this is not good.

How DARE YOU question my credibility on this...In all my years, I mean...The nerve...

Anyways. I just rewatched the last drive while at work, and am just saying what I saw...the TV view shows 3 refs running in waiving their hands for a timeout...Also...Pretty sure the TO picture I posted earlier was from 3 years ago (1st Choate win at Wagriz)....