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UM Spring Enrollment Numbers?

Spanky2 said:
kemajic said:
You don't have to be in CA for that. It happens all over MT.
That I don’t understand. Maybe we deserve to close shop.

University of Phoenix advertises a ton. So does MSC-Bozeman. Nobody wants to say it, but both schools specialize in convincing, well, dum-dums that they are going to learn something that will magically create a career opportunity. Sure, some go to MSC-B and get great jobs. Always have. The add-on students, however, are the most profitable. They don’t get merit based aid, and hopefully take longer to graduate. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they begin a part time night school online program. It’s like a players club card in Vegas—keep them there as long as possible.
 
CDAGRIZ said:
Spanky2 said:
That I don’t understand. Maybe we deserve to close shop.

University of Phoenix advertises a ton. So does MSC-Bozeman. Nobody wants to say it, but both schools specialize in convincing, well, dum-dums that they are going to learn something that will magically create a career opportunity. Sure, some go to MSC-B and get great jobs. Always have. The add-on students, however, are the most profitable. They don’t get merit based aid, and hopefully take longer to graduate. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they begin a part time night school online program. It’s like a players club card in Vegas—keep them there as long as possible.

Majority of state's top students again select Montana State

https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/montana_state_university/majority-of-states-top-students-again-select-montana-state/article_8f28bbe9-03cf-5e4b-8f46-c5f2638e93ef.html
 
wbtfg said:
CDAGRIZ said:
University of Phoenix advertises a ton. So does MSC-Bozeman. Nobody wants to say it, but both schools specialize in convincing, well, dum-dums that they are going to learn something that will magically create a career opportunity. Sure, some go to MSC-B and get great jobs. Always have. The add-on students, however, are the most profitable. They don’t get merit based aid, and hopefully take longer to graduate. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they begin a part time night school online program. It’s like a players club card in Vegas—keep them there as long as possible.

Majority of state's top students again select Montana State

https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/montana_state_university/majority-of-states-top-students-again-select-montana-state/article_8f28bbe9-03cf-5e4b-8f46-c5f2638e93ef.html

I would hope that the majority of the top students choose Stanford, Berkeley, or UCLA (or an Ivy) but I don’t doubt those numbers. DeVry does great numbers, too. That’s kind of the the way MSU is heading. Volume over everything. Sign ‘em up, get them in the system, keep ‘em there, and profit.
 
CDAGRIZ said:
wbtfg said:
Majority of state's top students again select Montana State

https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/montana_state_university/majority-of-states-top-students-again-select-montana-state/article_8f28bbe9-03cf-5e4b-8f46-c5f2638e93ef.html

I would hope that the majority of the top students choose Stanford, Berkeley, or UCLA (or an Ivy) but I don’t doubt those numbers.

Depends on the aid package. If a Montana kid with a 4.0 and 32 ACT can stay in-state for free or go to a top tier for $40k/year, depending on the major, I’d probably recommend getting through undergrad debt free.
 
wbtfg said:
CDAGRIZ said:
I would hope that the majority of the top students choose Stanford, Berkeley, or UCLA (or an Ivy) but I don’t doubt those numbers.

Depends on the aid package. If a Montana kid with a 4.0 and 32 ACT can stay in-state for free or go to a top tier for $40k/year, depending on the major, I’d probably recommend getting through undergrad debt free.

Definitely depends on major. Not a lot of undergrad degrees from Bozeman pay enough to be terminal so I don’t disagree with you on that. I’m hoping my kids go to Long Beach State or something to save coin before getting the degree that matters. MSC seems to serve that intermediate purpose for a lot of people. “Degree mill” type situation. It’s been interesting to watch them make that transition.
 
CDAGRIZ said:
wbtfg said:
Depends on the aid package. If a Montana kid with a 4.0 and 32 ACT can stay in-state for free or go to a top tier for $40k/year, depending on the major, I’d probably recommend getting through undergrad debt free.

Definitely depends on major. Not a lot of undergrad degrees from Bozeman pay enough to be terminal so I don’t disagree with you on that. I’m hoping my kids go to Long Beach State or something to save coin before getting the degree that matters. MSC seems to serve that intermediate purpose for a lot of people. “Degree mill” type situation. It’s been interesting to watch them make that transition.

I look forward to seeing how Bodner’s plan of transitioning UM to “Best Boutique School of The Northwest Portion of Montana” plays out. He’s really taking LEAN thinking to a whole new level.
 
wbtfg said:
CDAGRIZ said:
Definitely depends on major. Not a lot of undergrad degrees from Bozeman pay enough to be terminal so I don’t disagree with you on that. I’m hoping my kids go to Long Beach State or something to save coin before getting the degree that matters. MSC seems to serve that intermediate purpose for a lot of people. “Degree mill” type situation. It’s been interesting to watch them make that transition.

I look forward to seeing how Bodner’s plan of transitioning UM to “Best Boutique School of The Northwest Portion of Montana” plays out. He’s really taking LEAN thinking to a whole new level.

For sure will be interesting. One school seems to be trying to go Rodeo Drive whilst the other has gone full Wal-Mart the past 5-8 years. I guess both can serve a purpose depending on what the student wants.
 
CDAGRIZ said:
wbtfg said:
I look forward to seeing how Bodner’s plan of transitioning UM to “Best Boutique School of The Northwest Portion of Montana” plays out. He’s really taking LEAN thinking to a whole new level.

For sure will be interesting. One school seems to be trying to go Rodeo Drive.....

That’s more than a little generous. I was thinking something more along the lines of a Reserve Street Kum N Go. To each their own, I guess.
 
wbtfg said:
CDAGRIZ said:
For sure will be interesting. One school seems to be trying to go Rodeo Drive.....

That’s more than a little generous. I was thinking something more along the lines of a Reserve Street Kum N Go. To each their own, I guess.


Haha! I said “trying”, after all.
The point remains that MSC is playing the volume game. It’ll be fun to see how it plays out for them.
 
The words used to describe both institution’s situation and student experiences are entertaining and – you get it free one time here – a part of why enrollment is declining. Those who speak for UM are often UM’s biggest problem and UM can’t shut them up. You don’t know who you are, because people like that don’t have self-assessment capabilities. Prospective parents and students come to this website, read this drivel and posts like it, and make their decision. Like Sean Hannity for conservative causes: he thinks he’s the wise spokesperson and does more harm than good. Not surprising that news of continued enrollment decline turns into squeaking about BOR and MSU on this forum.

A less liberal BOR, coming our way soon, won’t keep patting UM leadership on the head with “good try little buddy, keep rolling out the stupid press releases, you’ll buy yourself time, bro. BTW, recruitment and visiting student experience is still bad. It’s common knowledge, killing the institution. Think you could maybe, potentially, perhaps, try to fix that? Go Griz!!”

My 2 cents: Montana’s taxpayers and UM leadership are held hostage by tenured faculty and the union, Bodnar has the hardest job in the state, and hopefully things turn around for all concerned.

MSU alum/fans, myself included, ought to shut our collective cake holes about UM’s recent and hopefully temporary problems. Could happen to us any day for any number of reasons. A VP at MSU several years ago (and more recently) made this clear in a leadership meeting – said UM having enrollment problems is bad for MSU, and not just because BOR’s liberal biases. It’s bad for many reasons, but mainly because it’s bad for our State’s students. It's also doesn’t reflect on UM’s strong history and sets a precedent for comparison between the two institutions that’s of no value and isn’t sustainable.
 
noncasualobserver said:
The words used to describe both institution’s situation and student experiences are entertaining and – you get it free one time here – a part of why enrollment is declining.
Those who speak for UM are often UM’s biggest problem and UM can’t shut them up
. You don’t know who you are, because people like that don’t have self-assessment capabilities. Prospective parents and students come to this website, read this drivel and posts like it, and make their decision. Like Sean Hannity for conservative causes: he thinks he’s the wise spokesperson and does more harm than good. Not surprising that news of continued enrollment decline turns into squeaking about BOR and MSU on this forum.

A less liberal BOR, coming our way soon, won’t keep patting UM leadership on the head with “good try little buddy, keep rolling out the stupid press releases, you’ll buy yourself time, bro. BTW, recruitment and visiting student experience is still bad. It’s common knowledge, killing the institution. Think you could maybe, potentially, perhaps, try to fix that? Go Griz!!”

My 2 cents: Montana’s taxpayers and UM leadership are held hostage by tenured faculty and the union, Bodnar has the hardest job in the state, and hopefully things turn around for all concerned.

MSU alum/fans, myself included, ought to shut our collective cake holes about UM’s recent and hopefully temporary problems. Could happen to us any day for any number of reasons. A VP at MSU several years ago (and more recently) made this clear in a leadership meeting – said UM having enrollment problems is bad for MSU, and not just because BOR’s liberal biases. It’s bad for many reasons, but mainly because it’s bad for our State’s students. It's also doesn’t reflect on UM’s strong history and sets a precedent for comparison between the two institutions that’s of no value and isn’t sustainable.

100% agreed. There seems to be some sort of "fad" or, "trend" to say negative things about UM. Like many fads and trends they come and go, but are often difficult to quantify and therefore influence. I have read and heard a lot of negative comments (from current and former students at UM) about UM, but they rarely seem to have any purpose other than to "pile on" UM and join the chorus that feels more and more vindicated as more people join in. I believe one of the hardest obstacles UM has to overcome is changing public perception about it's offerings. It is a great university and Missoula is an unbelievably great town. But UM needs to promote those great things.

As UM is figuring out, they have to do more to "show off" their strengths. Just "being" UM simply isn't enough anymore. Universities spend millions on recruiting potential students. Guess who has the bigger (by A LOT) recruitment budget between the two schools? Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out. Hopefully as UM spends more time and money on creating its own positive narrative and image AND sharing that with prospective students, the cliche UM bashing will subside and students will return to Missoula.

I believe leaders at UM have learned a valuable lesson-unfortunately they learned the hard way-about active recruiting and spending money to make money. We shall see if the efforts that are taking place now produce positive growth. It won't be a quick fix, and only time will tell; but there are some of us who still believe UM is and will be a great university.
 
MTGRZ said:
noncasualobserver said:
The words used to describe both institution’s situation and student experiences are entertaining and – you get it free one time here – a part of why enrollment is declining. . You don’t know who you are, because people like that don’t have self-assessment capabilities. Prospective parents and students come to this website, read this drivel and posts like it, and make their decision. Like Sean Hannity for conservative causes: he thinks he’s the wise spokesperson and does more harm than good. Not surprising that news of continued enrollment decline turns into squeaking about BOR and MSU on this forum.

A less liberal BOR, coming our way soon, won’t keep patting UM leadership on the head with “good try little buddy, keep rolling out the stupid press releases, you’ll buy yourself time, bro. BTW, recruitment and visiting student experience is still bad. It’s common knowledge, killing the institution. Think you could maybe, potentially, perhaps, try to fix that? Go Griz!!”

My 2 cents: Montana’s taxpayers and UM leadership are held hostage by tenured faculty and the union, Bodnar has the hardest job in the state, and hopefully things turn around for all concerned.

MSU alum/fans, myself included, ought to shut our collective cake holes about UM’s recent and hopefully temporary problems. Could happen to us any day for any number of reasons. A VP at MSU several years ago (and more recently) made this clear in a leadership meeting – said UM having enrollment problems is bad for MSU, and not just because BOR’s liberal biases. It’s bad for many reasons, but mainly because it’s bad for our State’s students. It's also doesn’t reflect on UM’s strong history and sets a precedent for comparison between the two institutions that’s of no value and isn’t sustainable.

100% agreed. There seems to be some sort of "fad" or, "trend" to say negative things about UM. Like many fads and trends they come and go, but are often difficult to quantify and therefore influence. I have read and heard a lot of negative comments (from current and former students at UM) about UM, but they rarely seem to have any purpose other than to "pile on" UM and join the chorus that feels more and more vindicated as more people join in. I believe one of the hardest obstacles UM has to overcome is changing public perception about it's offerings. It is a great university and Missoula is an unbelievably great town. But UM needs to promote those great things.

As UM is figuring out, they have to do more to "show off" their strengths. Just "being" UM simply isn't enough anymore. Universities spend millions on recruiting potential students. Guess who has the bigger (by A LOT) recruitment budget between the two schools? Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out. Hopefully as UM spends more time and money on creating its own positive narrative and image AND sharing that with prospective students, the cliche UM bashing will subside and students will return to Missoula.

I believe leaders at UM have learned a valuable lesson-unfortunately they learned the hard way-about active recruiting and spending money to make money. We shall see if the efforts that are taking place now produce positive growth. It won't be a quick fix, and only time will tell; but there are some of us who still believe UM is and will be a great university.

:clap: :clap: :clap:
 
MTGRZ said:
I believe leaders at UM have learned a valuable lesson-unfortunately they learned the hard way-about active recruiting and spending money to make money. We shall see if the efforts that are taking place now produce positive growth. It won't be a quick fix, and only time will tell; but there are some of us who still believe UM is and will be a great university.

but have they learned that lesson? it seems like i've been reading about msu outdoing um in active recruiting for a decade now.
 
The University of Montana is simply selling the wrong things. I don't care how they combine and rename degrees...people are not fooled. I also don't think better marketing, branding, recruiting, or campus visits will matter much.

Degrees have to be worth the money spent to get them. UM simply has too few of them.

Rock bottom is nearing, and the BOR will have to make transformational changes.
 
argh! said:
MTGRZ said:
I believe leaders at UM have learned a valuable lesson-unfortunately they learned the hard way-about active recruiting and spending money to make money. We shall see if the efforts that are taking place now produce positive growth. It won't be a quick fix, and only time will tell; but there are some of us who still believe UM is and will be a great university.

but have they learned that lesson? it seems like i've been reading about msu outdoing um in active recruiting for a decade now.

No or at least it appears not and zero clue why MTGRZ would type "leaders at uM have learned...." as if there was some sort of proof of that. Maybe there is, but Kemajic recently had to contact Bodnar personally because of a family member's bad experience with UM. UM's horrid recruiting and visiting student orientation problems have been known since Bodnar showed up and long before that. The dude has serious leadership experience, was handed a turd sandwich and isn't dumb. That's why my assumption is that he and the State of MT are held hostage by unions and faculty. Alternative is he doesn't know how to do his job. Highly unlikely.
 
SoldierGriz said:
The University of Montana is simply selling the wrong things. I don't care how they combine and rename degrees...people are not fooled. I also don't think better marketing, branding, recruiting, or campus visits will matter much.

Degrees have to be worth the money spent to get them. UM simply has too few of them.

Rock bottom is nearing, and the BOR will have to make transformational changes.
Soldier, it seems that you have identified the heart of the problem. Ok, what are some of the degrees UM should offer? How about a Medical School? We continue to hear one of the issues restricting growth is the Union. If true, let’s break our Union agreements. What is the down side? It is apparent that UM is in a desperate position called survival, so let’s get the show on the road and turn UM around. Finally, we have a first rate president with Bodnar, so let’s all support him rather than the ongoing negative lip service. I don’t mean you Soldier, but others on the board.
 
Spanky2 said:
SoldierGriz said:
The University of Montana is simply selling the wrong things. I don't care how they combine and rename degrees...people are not fooled. I also don't think better marketing, branding, recruiting, or campus visits will matter much.

Degrees have to be worth the money spent to get them. UM simply has too few of them.

Rock bottom is nearing, and the BOR will have to make transformational changes.
Soldier, it seems that you have identified the heart of the problem. Ok, what are some of the degrees UM should offer? How about a Medical School? We continue to hear one of the issues restricting growth is the Union. If true, let’s break our Union agreements. What is the down side? It is apparent that UM is in a desperate position called survival, so let’s get the show on the road and turn UM around. Finally, we have a first rate president with Bodnar, so let’s all support him rather than the ongoing negative lip service. I don’t mean you Soldier, but others on the board.

Anything and everything related to Cyber. Avionics and hypersonic technology, Artificial intelligence, food science, all things bio science and engineering for starters...and yes, anything medical.
 
SoldierGriz said:
Spanky2 said:
Soldier, it seems that you have identified the heart of the problem. Ok, what are some of the degrees UM should offer? How about a Medical School? We continue to hear one of the issues restricting growth is the Union. If true, let’s break our Union agreements. What is the down side? It is apparent that UM is in a desperate position called survival, so let’s get the show on the road and turn UM around. Finally, we have a first rate president with Bodnar, so let’s all support him rather than the ongoing negative lip service. I don’t mean you Soldier, but others on the board.

Anything and everything related to Cyber. Avionics and hypersonic technology, Artificial intelligence, food science, all things bio science and engineering for starters...and yes, anything medical.

We all know the one place you can study electrical engineering, agriculture and has a first year med school agreement with UW. ;)
 
wbtfg said:
SoldierGriz said:
Anything and everything related to Cyber. Avionics and hypersonic technology, Artificial intelligence, food science, all things bio science and engineering for starters...and yes, anything medical.

We all know the one place you can study electrical engineering, agriculture and has a first year med school agreement with UW. ;)

I believe the WWAMI kids now go 2 years to MSU. I doubt that anyone chooses the WWAMI program so that they can go to MSU at the outset.
 
PlayerRep said:
wbtfg said:
We all know the one place you can study electrical engineering, agriculture and has a first year med school agreement with UW. ;)

I believe the WWAMI kids now go 2 years to MSU. I doubt that anyone chooses the WWAMI program so that they can go to MSU at the outset.

Why do you doubt that? Are you saying that they would pick Wyoming, Alaska, or Idaho over MSU?
 
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