Two Game Suspension...

[signedbewildered]

".....Of course, I have zero info other than what I have read on egriz...."

GASP!! Waaaaaaaaaaaait a minute. What did you do with the real PR?

 

[MiningCityGrizFan]

My reaction to a two-game suspension now may be an indication that UM thinks that he will not ultimately be charged, or certainly not charged with a felony. Because, if a serious charge was still a good possibility, I would think that they would suspend him indefinitely, to allow to see what the authorities do. It would seem odd to take action now, beyond suspension indefinitely, if they though they might have to reverse and take more action or kick him off the team later.

Of course, I have zero info other than what I have read on egriz, so who knows.

The fact that the WSU guy was released on Tuesday, 3.5 days after he was admitted to the hospital, indicates to me that he wasn't hurt as bad as originally thought. I wonder if the original skull fracture info from the police was even accurate. AZDoc, what do you think?

I actually think it’s a smart PR move for no other reason than that it minimizes the distraction for the next two weeks. They have formally addressed the issue by applying essentially the same punishment as was applied to Strahm’s DUI.

Should nothing play out in two weeks, Strong comes back and earns his way back onto the field before Northern Colorado(with a thumb that is fully healed). If felony charges are filed, it’s out of Stitt and Haslam’s hands and he’s off the team per the policy that is in place.

Either way they’ve set it up to minimize the distraction it causes the team as they gear up for the toughest stretch of their schedule. Which is pretty solid damage control in my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ringneck]

Amazing how fast Haslam and Stitt abandon one of their own when no charges have even been filed. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? No family here! Just talk! We need to make a couple changes immediately!!!

He is not a family member, and he's not "one of their own." He's not their child, he is a college student-athlete, who has the ability to exercise reason, use discretion and exhibit self-control. He is not innocent, he is guilty of of violating the student conduct code by fighting, by his own admission. He hasn't been abandoned by the team or the athletic department, he has been disciplined appropriately for his infraction.

I swear, i_the_sky, you're the most genuinely, sincerely, cluelessly irrational person I've encountered on this site, and that is saying a helluva lot.

Does the athletic code prohibit fighting? Don't know. Just asking.

I would agree that what has been put out publicly is probably what most would describe as a fight. However, if someone comes after you and you protect yourself, I don't think I would describe that as fighting. It is protecting yourself.

From the University of Montana Student-Athlete Handbook, page 8:
http://www.gogriz.com/documents/2016/7/20//2016_17_SA_Handbook.pdf?id=2761

D. University Policy, Procedure or Rule Violation
Violations of University policies, rules, or procedures occur in any situation where an
individual:
 Has violated University policies, rules, and/or regulations, including:
o The University of Montana's Student Conduct Code or Discrimination and Sexual
Harassment policy; or
o Willfully giving false information to a University official; or
 Is found to have engaged in conduct that is deemed inappropriate, reckless, inciting, or
malicious which brings embarrassment to the team, the Department of Athletics, or the
campus community, but does not rise to the threshold of a Category III violation.

 

[PlayerRep]

My reaction to a two-game suspension now may be an indication that UM thinks that he will not ultimately be charged, or certainly not charged with a felony. Because, if a serious charge was still a good possibility, I would think that they would suspend him indefinitely, to allow to see what the authorities do. It would seem odd to take action now, beyond suspension indefinitely, if they though they might have to reverse and take more action or kick him off the team later.

Of course, I have zero info other than what I have read on egriz, so who knows.

The fact that the WSU guy was released on Tuesday, 3.5 days after he was admitted to the hospital, indicates to me that he wasn't hurt as bad as originally thought. I wonder if the original skull fracture info from the police was even accurate. AZDoc, what do you think?

I actually think it’s a smart PR move for no other reason than that it minimizes the distraction for the next two weeks. They have formally addressed the issue by applying essentially the same punishment as was applied to Strahm’s DUI.

Should nothing play out in two weeks, Strong comes back and earns his way back onto the field before Northern Colorado(with a thumb that is fully healed). If felony charges are filed, it’s out of Stitt and Haslam’s hands and he’s off the team per the policy that is in place.

Either way they’ve set it up to minimize the distraction it causes the team as they gear up for the toughest stretch of their schedule. Which is pretty solid damage control in my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup, you make a good point. I'm not sure that an indefinite suspension doesn't get the same result, and reduce the chances of later egg on face.

 

[PlayerRep]

Amazing how fast Haslam and Stitt abandon one of their own when no charges have even been filed. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? No family here! Just talk! We need to make a couple changes immediately!!!

He is not a family member, and he's not "one of their own." He's not their child, he is a college student-athlete, who has the ability to exercise reason, use discretion and exhibit self-control. He is not innocent, he is guilty of of violating the student conduct code by fighting, by his own admission. He hasn't been abandoned by the team or the athletic department, he has been disciplined appropriately for his infraction.

I swear, i_the_sky, you're the most genuinely, sincerely, cluelessly irrational person I've encountered on this site, and that is saying a helluva lot.

Does the athletic code prohibit fighting? Don't know. Just asking.

I would agree that what has been put out publicly is probably what most would describe as a fight. However, if someone comes after you and you protect yourself, I don't think I would describe that as fighting. It is protecting yourself.

From the University of Montana Student-Athlete Handbook, page 8:
http://www.gogriz.com/documents/2016/7/20//2016_17_SA_Handbook.pdf?id=2761

D. University Policy, Procedure or Rule Violation
Violations of University policies, rules, or procedures occur in any situation where an
individual:
 Has violated University policies, rules, and/or regulations, including:
o The University of Montana's Student Conduct Code or Discrimination and Sexual
Harassment policy; or
o Willfully giving false information to a University official; or
 Is found to have engaged in conduct that is deemed inappropriate, reckless, inciting, or
malicious which brings embarrassment to the team, the Department of Athletics, or the
campus community, but does not rise to the threshold of a Category III violation.

Thanks. Note that it does say anything about fighting. I agree that this situation falls within the category you highlight, with the arrest and publicity.

However, if it was known to the athletic dept. that a player and another player, or a player and a non-player, had a fight, say in a backyard of a house party, I doubt that the player would be suspended for fighting.

 

[Ringneck]

He is not a family member, and he's not "one of their own." He's not their child, he is a college student-athlete, who has the ability to exercise reason, use discretion and exhibit self-control. He is not innocent, he is guilty of of violating the student conduct code by fighting, by his own admission. He hasn't been abandoned by the team or the athletic department, he has been disciplined appropriately for his infraction.

I swear, i_the_sky, you're the most genuinely, sincerely, cluelessly irrational person I've encountered on this site, and that is saying a helluva lot.

Does the athletic code prohibit fighting? Don't know. Just asking.

I would agree that what has been put out publicly is probably what most would describe as a fight. However, if someone comes after you and you protect yourself, I don't think I would describe that as fighting. It is protecting yourself.

From the University of Montana Student-Athlete Handbook, page 8:
http://www.gogriz.com/documents/2016/7/20//2016_17_SA_Handbook.pdf?id=2761

D. University Policy, Procedure or Rule Violation
Violations of University policies, rules, or procedures occur in any situation where an
individual:
 Has violated University policies, rules, and/or regulations, including:
o The University of Montana's Student Conduct Code or Discrimination and Sexual
Harassment policy; or
o Willfully giving false information to a University official; or
 Is found to have engaged in conduct that is deemed inappropriate, reckless, inciting, or malicious which brings embarrassment to the team, the Department of Athletics, or the campus community, but does not rise to the threshold of a Category III violation.

Thanks. Note that it does say anything about fighting. I agree that this situation falls within the category you highlight, with the arrest and publicity.

However, if it was known to the athletic dept. that a player and another player, or a player and a non-player, had a fight, say in a backyard of a house party, I doubt that the player would be suspended for fighting.

If in the scenario you bring up the matter was resolved without the need for law enforcement or medical attention, then I agree - no suspension would be warranted. If in that same scenario, the matter became public knowledge through an arrest or some similar event, then that seems to tip the scales towards it being conduct that "brings embarrassment to the team, the Department of Athletics, or the campus community." And in that case, a suspension seems appropriate.

 

[PlayerRep]

Does the athletic code prohibit fighting? Don't know. Just asking.

I would agree that what has been put out publicly is probably what most would describe as a fight. However, if someone comes after you and you protect yourself, I don't think I would describe that as fighting. It is protecting yourself.

From the University of Montana Student-Athlete Handbook, page 8:
http://www.gogriz.com/documents/2016/7/20//2016_17_SA_Handbook.pdf?id=2761

D. University Policy, Procedure or Rule Violation
Violations of University policies, rules, or procedures occur in any situation where an
individual:
 Has violated University policies, rules, and/or regulations, including:
o The University of Montana's Student Conduct Code or Discrimination and Sexual
Harassment policy; or
o Willfully giving false information to a University official; or
 Is found to have engaged in conduct that is deemed inappropriate, reckless, inciting, or malicious which brings embarrassment to the team, the Department of Athletics, or the campus community, but does not rise to the threshold of a Category III violation.

Thanks. Note that it does say anything about fighting. I agree that this situation falls within the category you highlight, with the arrest and publicity.

However, if it was known to the athletic dept. that a player and another player, or a player and a non-player, had a fight, say in a backyard of a house party, I doubt that the player would be suspended for fighting.

If in the scenario you bring up the matter was resolved without the need for law enforcement or medical attention, then I agree - no suspension would be warranted. If in that same scenario, the matter became public knowledge through an arrest or some similar event, then that seems to tip the scales towards it being conduct that "brings embarrassment to the team, the Department of Athletics, or the campus community." And in that case, a suspension seems appropriate.

Yup. Fighting may be okay, but fighting and get caught is not. Ha.

 

[nzone]

Hypothetically speaking....
Your at a house party and you break up a fight.
Once you turn your back someone blind sides you bloodying your lip and blackening your eye and he runs out the door.
Instinctively you run after him to find out wtf. That’s what guys do....
You encounter him and feel he wants to punch you again so you whack him knocking him down.
Not knowing the results of your punch the guy tries and get up so you whack him again..l mean he does have the reputation of being a tough guy being an mma fighter and all. There are certain guys you just don’t let back up. I mean he blind sided you once what says he won’t again.
I don’t know many capable men who wouldn’t pursue this and would not let him up given this guys track record.........embarrassment to the team? Can’t imagine what might have happened had Justin been drinking. But he wasn’t.

 

[MTGRZ]

Didn't we have a LB suspended a game or two for fighting a few years ago? Gamboa?

 

[Ringneck]

From the University of Montana Student-Athlete Handbook, page 8:
http://www.gogriz.com/documents/2016/7/20//2016_17_SA_Handbook.pdf?id=2761

D. University Policy, Procedure or Rule Violation
Violations of University policies, rules, or procedures occur in any situation where an
individual:
 Has violated University policies, rules, and/or regulations, including:
o The University of Montana's Student Conduct Code or Discrimination and Sexual
Harassment policy; or
o Willfully giving false information to a University official; or
 Is found to have engaged in conduct that is deemed inappropriate, reckless, inciting, or malicious which brings embarrassment to the team, the Department of Athletics, or the campus community, but does not rise to the threshold of a Category III violation.

Thanks. Note that it does say anything about fighting. I agree that this situation falls within the category you highlight, with the arrest and publicity.

However, if it was known to the athletic dept. that a player and another player, or a player and a non-player, had a fight, say in a backyard of a house party, I doubt that the player would be suspended for fighting.

If in the scenario you bring up the matter was resolved without the need for law enforcement or medical attention, then I agree - no suspension would be warranted. If in that same scenario, the matter became public knowledge through an arrest or some similar event, then that seems to tip the scales towards it being conduct that "brings embarrassment to the team, the Department of Athletics, or the campus community." And in that case, a suspension seems appropriate.

Yup. Fighting may be okay, but fighting and get caught is not. Ha.

Pretty much, yes.

 

[go4two]

Thanks. Note that it does say anything about fighting. I agree that this situation falls within the category you highlight, with the arrest and publicity.

However, if it was known to the athletic dept. that a player and another player, or a player and a non-player, had a fight, say in a backyard of a house party, I doubt that the player would be suspended for fighting.

If in the scenario you bring up the matter was resolved without the need for law enforcement or medical attention, then I agree - no suspension would be warranted. If in that same scenario, the matter became public knowledge through an arrest or some similar event, then that seems to tip the scales towards it being conduct that "brings embarrassment to the team, the Department of Athletics, or the campus community." And in that case, a suspension seems appropriate.

Yup. Fighting may be okay, but fighting and get caught is not. Ha.

Pretty much, yes.

If the guy hadn't had to go to the hospital, no one would have ever known about this fight, and Strong would be playing this Saturday. I don't blame Strong at all. As others have stated, we all would have done the same if we got sucker punched.

 

[PlayerRep]

Hypothetically speaking....
Your at a house party and you break up a fight.
Once you turn your back someone blind sides you bloodying your lip and blackening your eye and he runs out the door.
Instinctively you run after him to find out wtf. That’s what guys do....
You encounter him and feel he wants to punch you again so you whack him knocking him down.
Not knowing the results of your punch the guy tries and get up so you whack him again..l mean he does have the reputation of being a tough guy being an mma fighter and all. There are certain guys you just don’t let back up. I mean he blind sided you once what says he won’t again.
I don’t know many capable men who wouldn’t pursue this and would not let him up given this guys track record.........embarrassment to the team? Can’t imagine what might have happened had Justin been drinking. But he wasn’t.

If these were the basic facts, then I agree with your analysis. And, if you don't defend your little brother and your teammates/friends/self, do you then violate the "embarrassment to the team and school" part of the code? Ha.

 

[PlayerRep]

Didn't we have a LB suspended a game or two for fighting a few years ago? Gamboa?

Didn't he get cited by the cops for the incident, and it made the paper?

 

[DriscollCat]

Amazing how fast Haslam and Stitt abandon one of their own when no charges have even been filed. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? No family here! Just talk! We need to make a couple changes immediately!!!

He is not a family member, and he's not "one of their own." He's not their child, he is a college student-athlete, who has the ability to exercise reason, use discretion and exhibit self-control. He is not innocent, he is guilty of of violating the student conduct code by fighting, by his own admission. He hasn't been abandoned by the team or the athletic department, he has been disciplined appropriately for his infraction.

I swear, i_the_sky, you're the most genuinely, sincerely, cluelessly irrational person I've encountered on this site, and that is saying a helluva lot.

Ringneck, you represent your fan base well. You should take pride in a high standard of athlete conduct. I am embarrassed when a Bobcat athlete engages in criminal behavior.

The rest of you guys should know that you while it is understandable to have rose colored glasses for your team, in light of the the evidence, including Strong's own testimony, you sound borderline dilusional to people from the outside.

 

[bgbigdog]

Amazing how fast Haslam and Stitt abandon one of their own when no charges have even been filed. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? No family here! Just talk! We need to make a couple changes immediately!!!

He is not a family member, and he's not "one of their own." He's not their child, he is a college student-athlete, who has the ability to exercise reason, use discretion and exhibit self-control. He is not innocent, he is guilty of of violating the student conduct code by fighting, by his own admission. He hasn't been abandoned by the team or the athletic department, he has been disciplined appropriately for his infraction.

I swear, i_the_sky, you're the most genuinely, sincerely, cluelessly irrational person I've encountered on this site, and that is saying a helluva lot.

Ringneck, you represent your fan base well. You should take pride in a high standard of athlete conduct. I am embarrassed when a Bobcat athlete engages in criminal behavior.

The rest of you guys should know that you while it is understandable to have rose colored glasses for your team, in light of the the evidence, including Strong's own testimony, you sound borderline dilusional to people from the outside.

What do you mean “borderline?”

 

[go96griz]

Amazing how fast Haslam and Stitt abandon one of their own when no charges have even been filed. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? No family here! Just talk! We need to make a couple changes immediately!!!

He is not a family member, and he's not "one of their own." He's not their child, he is a college student-athlete, who has the ability to exercise reason, use discretion and exhibit self-control. He is not innocent, he is guilty of of violating the student conduct code by fighting, by his own admission. He hasn't been abandoned by the team or the athletic department, he has been disciplined appropriately for his infraction.

I swear, i_the_sky, you're the most genuinely, sincerely, cluelessly irrational person I've encountered on this site, and that is saying a helluva lot.

Ringneck, you represent your fan base well. You should take pride in a high standard of athlete conduct. I am embarrassed when a Bobcat athlete engages in criminal behavior.

The rest of you guys should know that you while it is understandable to have rose colored glasses for your team, in light of the the evidence, including Strong's own testimony, you sound borderline dilusional to people from the outside.

Sort of like MSU fans expecting to win out and make it to the playoffs. Yes, there's a chance but to the casual observer from the outside it is borderline delusional.

 

[DriscollCat]

Amazing how fast Haslam and Stitt abandon one of their own when no charges have even been filed. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? No family here! Just talk! We need to make a couple changes immediately!!!

He is not a family member, and he's not "one of their own." He's not their child, he is a college student-athlete, who has the ability to exercise reason, use discretion and exhibit self-control. He is not innocent, he is guilty of of violating the student conduct code by fighting, by his own admission. He hasn't been abandoned by the team or the athletic department, he has been disciplined appropriately for his infraction.

I swear, i_the_sky, you're the most genuinely, sincerely, cluelessly irrational person I've encountered on this site, and that is saying a helluva lot.

Ringneck, you represent your fan base well. You should take pride in a high standard of athlete conduct. I am embarrassed when a Bobcat athlete engages in criminal behavior.

The rest of you guys should know that you while it is understandable to have rose colored glasses for your team, in light of the the evidence, including Strong's own testimony, you sound borderline dilusional to people from the outside.

Sort of like MSU fans expecting to win out and make it to the playoffs. Yes, there's a chance but to the casual observer from the outside it is borderline delusional.

Like I said, it's understandable to see your own team through rose colored glasses. I did, however, post on BN that the scenario hinged on winning in Flag. Not impossible, but not likely. I am trying not to be dilusional.

 

[Ringneck]

Amazing how fast Haslam and Stitt abandon one of their own when no charges have even been filed. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? No family here! Just talk! We need to make a couple changes immediately!!!

He is not a family member, and he's not "one of their own." He's not their child, he is a college student-athlete, who has the ability to exercise reason, use discretion and exhibit self-control. He is not innocent, he is guilty of of violating the student conduct code by fighting, by his own admission. He hasn't been abandoned by the team or the athletic department, he has been disciplined appropriately for his infraction.

I swear, i_the_sky, you're the most genuinely, sincerely, cluelessly irrational person I've encountered on this site, and that is saying a helluva lot.

Ringneck, you represent your fan base well. You should take pride in a high standard of athlete conduct. I am embarrassed when a Bobcat athlete engages in criminal behavior.

The rest of you guys should know that you while it is understandable to have rose colored glasses for your team, in light of the the evidence, including Strong's own testimony, you sound borderline dilusional to people from the outside.

Well, I appreciate that, DriscollCat. I guess I believe that being a part of a fan base is of minimal importance compared to being a person of integrity. By virtue of his association with the University, Justin Strong is bound to adhere to the student and student-athlete codes of conduct. It is apparent that he has failed to do so, on at least one count.

According to the handbooks, AD Haslem and Coach Stitt did the right thing by suspending him. They should be applauded, not chastised, for responding deliberately (but not hastily), decisively and appropriately. The last thing the football program or University needs is another bloody scandal wrapped around the mismanagement of a student-athlete's indiscretions.

It should not matter who the player is, what sport he/she plays, or how important he/she is to the team. As an institution - or as an individual - if you don't have your integrity, it doesn't matter what else you do have.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Hypothetically speaking....
Your at a house party and you break up a fight.
Once you turn your back someone blind sides you bloodying your lip and blackening your eye and he runs out the door.
Instinctively you run after him to find out wtf. That’s what guys do....
You encounter him and feel he wants to punch you again so you whack him knocking him down.
Not knowing the results of your punch the guy tries and get up so you whack him again..l mean he does have the reputation of being a tough guy being an mma fighter and all. There are certain guys you just don’t let back up. I mean he blind sided you once what says he won’t again.
I don’t know many capable men who wouldn’t pursue this and would not let him up given this guys track record.........embarrassment to the team? Can’t imagine what might have happened had Justin been drinking. But he wasn’t.

If these were the basic facts, then I agree with your analysis. And, if you don't defend your little brother and your teammates/friends/self, do you then violate the "embarrassment to the team and school" part of the code? Ha.

You do in my book.

 

[MrMischief]

Does the athletic code prohibit fighting? Don't know. Just asking.

A quick google search got me to:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/gogriz.com/documents/2016/7/20/2016_17_SA_Handbook.pdf

Below is what I suspect is most relevant

Policies on Misconduct for University of Montana Student-Athletes
Four types of misconduct may affect your ability to participate in the University's intercollegiate
athletic program: "Category I Violations", "Category II Violations", and “Category III Violations”
are associated with criminal charges. Violations of University policies and procedures, whether
or not criminal charges are filed, may also affect your ability to participate in the University’s
intercollegiate athletic program.
A. Category I Violation
A Category I violation occurs in any situation where an individual:
 Is charged with a felony and, in looking at the totality of the circumstances, it is
reasonable to believe the person committed the act (e.g., rape, sexual assault, other
felony assault, felony theft, felony DUI, etc.).
o Preliminary Action: The Athletic Director or his/her designee shall take
preliminary action to temporarily suspend a student-athlete from participation in
practice, competition, and/or access to athletic department services when a
student-athlete has been charged with a felony. The suspension is indefinite
pending the outcome of criminal proceedings and disciplinary action by the ACT,
which as soon as possible shall be informed by the AD or designee of the
temporary suspension and meet to discuss the issue. In cases where charges
have not been filed, but reasonable evidence exists that a student-athlete may
have committed a Category I violation (e.g., other specific and credible
information exists such as arrest record, statements of law enforcement officers,
University records, third-party or witness statements, or acknowledgement by the
student-athlete), the ACT shall convene and determine preliminary action.

I'm assuming Strong is currently under the line: "Violations of University policies and procedures, whether or not criminal charges are filed, may also affect your ability to participate in the University’s
intercollegiate athletic program."