Grizfan-24 said:The football discussion is a dumpster fire and this won't be any different.
Working in high schools for the past 20 years not only as a teacher but as a coach, I have a markedly different approach to this issue than I assume most on this page and site do.
1. This isn't about competitive advantage and it isn't about gaming the system. This is about coming to grips with idea that our nice and neat moral framework for how the world is supposed to be doesn't line up with the bio-chemical element of nature. For my students who have transitioned or have begun the process of transitioning, I see young adults who are happier and more content with who they are. Pretty cynical perspective to have that you see people doing this for a competitive advantage. There isn't some sort of nefarious liberal goal here, this is about students and their mental and physical well being.
2. I have coached girls sports. In almost all the sports I have coached (softball and basketball) girls have taken back seats in communities. They get second everything in a lot of communities and the message many hear when this conversation comes up is, "oh now you are interested" in girls athletics and equity/fairness. You weren't around when schools dump tens of thousands of dollars in the football program and you can't get around to building softball fields so you don't have to share your facility with the cities men's slow pitch softball program or provide adequate training facilities or opportunities. This isn't a viewpoint pushed in the media all that common, but it an absolute truth in most womens/girls sports communities. There are girls and women who are troubled by the transgender issue, as it was in Idaho w/ the transgender athlete running XC for Montana, and I am respectful of that view but as far as my experience has been that isn't or doesn't appear to be a widely held opinion.
3. From a political perspective, this is a tilting at windmills issue. This is a talking point, an issue that is great fodder for the bar, political circuits and family get-togethers. I've dealt with a ton of them in my years as an educator, and it isn't a non-issue in or for most communities in the United States there are more pressing issues than whether someone chooses to identify as one sex or the other, or bathrooms. The cardinal tell is that Montana legislators don't even believe in it because they can't stand losing federal tax money for schools. This is NOT a big or important enough issue them to stand up to the federal government to stand on principle. This is purely to get the base riled up, throwing chum in the water.
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Just my perspective.
Very well said!Grizfan-24 said:The football discussion is a dumpster fire and this won't be any different.
Working in high schools for the past 20 years not only as a teacher but as a coach, I have a markedly different approach to this issue than I assume most on this page and site do.
1. This isn't about competitive advantage and it isn't about gaming the system. This is about coming to grips with idea that our nice and neat moral framework for how the world is supposed to be doesn't line up with the bio-chemical element of nature. For my students who have transitioned or have begun the process of transitioning, I see young adults who are happier and more content with who they are. Pretty cynical perspective to have that you see people doing this for a competitive advantage. There isn't some sort of nefarious liberal goal here, this is about students and their mental and physical well being.
2. I have coached girls sports. In almost all the sports I have coached (softball and basketball) girls have taken back seats in communities. They get second everything in a lot of communities and the message many hear when this conversation comes up is, "oh now you are interested" in girls athletics and equity/fairness. You weren't around when schools dump tens of thousands of dollars in the football program and you can't get around to building softball fields so you don't have to share your facility with the cities men's slow pitch softball program or provide adequate training facilities or opportunities. This isn't a viewpoint pushed in the media all that common, but it an absolute truth in most womens/girls sports communities. There are girls and women who are troubled by the transgender issue, as it was in Idaho w/ the transgender athlete running XC for Montana, and I am respectful of that view but as far as my experience has been that isn't or doesn't appear to be a widely held opinion.
3. From a political perspective, this is a tilting at windmills issue. This is a talking point, an issue that is great fodder for the bar, political circuits and family get-togethers. I've dealt with a ton of them in my years as an educator, and it isn't a non-issue in or for most communities in the United States there are more pressing issues than whether someone chooses to identify as one sex or the other, or bathrooms. The cardinal tell is that Montana legislators don't even believe in it because they can't stand losing federal tax money for schools. This is NOT a big or important enough issue them to stand up to the federal government to stand on principle. This is purely to get the base riled up, throwing chum in the water.
--
Just my perspective.
Grizfan-24 said:The football discussion is a dumpster fire and this won't be any different.
Working in high schools for the past 20 years not only as a teacher but as a coach, I have a markedly different approach to this issue than I assume most on this page and site do.
1. This isn't about competitive advantage and it isn't about gaming the system. This is about coming to grips with idea that our nice and neat moral framework for how the world is supposed to be doesn't line up with the bio-chemical element of nature. For my students who have transitioned or have begun the process of transitioning, I see young adults who are happier and more content with who they are. Pretty cynical perspective to have that you see people doing this for a competitive advantage. There isn't some sort of nefarious liberal goal here, this is about students and their mental and physical well being.
2. I have coached girls sports. In almost all the sports I have coached (softball and basketball) girls have taken back seats in communities. They get second everything in a lot of communities and the message many hear when this conversation comes up is, "oh now you are interested" in girls athletics and equity/fairness. You weren't around when schools dump tens of thousands of dollars in the football program and you can't get around to building softball fields so you don't have to share your facility with the cities men's slow pitch softball program or provide adequate training facilities or opportunities. This isn't a viewpoint pushed in the media all that common, but it an absolute truth in most womens/girls sports communities. There are girls and women who are troubled by the transgender issue, as it was in Idaho w/ the transgender athlete running XC for Montana, and I am respectful of that view but as far as my experience has been that isn't or doesn't appear to be a widely held opinion.
3. From a political perspective, this is a tilting at windmills issue. This is a talking point, an issue that is great fodder for the bar, political circuits and family get-togethers. I've dealt with a ton of them in my years as an educator, and it isn't a non-issue in or for most communities in the United States there are more pressing issues than whether someone chooses to identify as one sex or the other, or bathrooms. The cardinal tell is that Montana legislators don't even believe in it because they can't stand losing federal tax money for schools. This is NOT a big or important enough issue them to stand up to the federal government to stand on principle. This is purely to get the base riled up, throwing chum in the water.
--
Just my perspective.
Grizfan-24 said:The football discussion is a dumpster fire and this won't be any different.
Working in high schools for the past 20 years not only as a teacher but as a coach, I have a markedly different approach to this issue than I assume most on this page and site do.
1. This isn't about competitive advantage and it isn't about gaming the system. This is about coming to grips with idea that our nice and neat moral framework for how the world is supposed to be doesn't line up with the bio-chemical element of nature. For my students who have transitioned or have begun the process of transitioning, I see young adults who are happier and more content with who they are. Pretty cynical perspective to have that you see people doing this for a competitive advantage. There isn't some sort of nefarious liberal goal here, this is about students and their mental and physical well being.
2. I have coached girls sports. In almost all the sports I have coached (softball and basketball) girls have taken back seats in communities. They get second everything in a lot of communities and the message many hear when this conversation comes up is, "oh now you are interested" in girls athletics and equity/fairness. You weren't around when schools dump tens of thousands of dollars in the football program and you can't get around to building softball fields so you don't have to share your facility with the cities men's slow pitch softball program or provide adequate training facilities or opportunities. This isn't a viewpoint pushed in the media all that common, but it an absolute truth in most womens/girls sports communities. There are girls and women who are troubled by the transgender issue, as it was in Idaho w/ the transgender athlete running XC for Montana, and I am respectful of that view but as far as my experience has been that isn't or doesn't appear to be a widely held opinion.
3. From a political perspective, this is a tilting at windmills issue. This is a talking point, an issue that is great fodder for the bar, political circuits and family get-togethers. I've dealt with a ton of them in my years as an educator, and it isn't a non-issue in or for most communities in the United States there are more pressing issues than whether someone chooses to identify as one sex or the other, or bathrooms. The cardinal tell is that Montana legislators don't even believe in it because they can't stand losing federal tax money for schools. This is NOT a big or important enough issue them to stand up to the federal government to stand on principle. This is purely to get the base riled up, throwing chum in the water.
--
Just my perspective.
ThinkingGriz said:If you hope to have, had or have girls playing sports. Then the answer to the question is clear. Men are bigger stronger faster on average with no question. Now at the college level they will use up scholarships for those born girls. And the door doesn't swing both ways. Women becoming men and dominating men's sports? Nope. If everything was a level playing field gender related then there would never need to be a distinction in sports. We would see women in every men sport at a 50/50 split. That's just not the case. NCAA is trying to force this on everybody according to a recent article I viewed. Punishing states that have a trans ban with no post season games. I don't know maybe have a transgender division.....?
Dillon said:ThinkingGriz said:If you hope to have, had or have girls playing sports. Then the answer to the question is clear. Men are bigger stronger faster on average with no question. Now at the college level they will use up scholarships for those born girls. And the door doesn't swing both ways. Women becoming men and dominating men's sports? Nope. If everything was a level playing field gender related then there would never need to be a distinction in sports. We would see women in every men sport at a 50/50 split. That's just not the case. NCAA is trying to force this on everybody according to a recent article I viewed. Punishing states that have a trans ban with no post season games. I don't know maybe have a transgender division.....?
:thumb: Since I choose to have no kids a long time ago I really have no or equal say in the matter, but just feel it is not fair or equally competitive to have male born competing with female born athletes. I am sorry to have to say this but hurting a trans feelings is too bad. Just my thoughts on the deal. Sorry if I have offended anyone, but OH WELL! Just my common sense speaking here! Here it comes! 10,9,8,7
sacstateman said:Do you think that if a 6' 9" five star boy prep player decides to change genders, goes to PoDunk University as a womens athlete, averages 50pts and 30rbs a game and leads them to 4 NCAA titles, then goes to the NBA, will that change anything?
tourist said:NBA or WNBA, or will there be TWNBA, or others???
Dillon said:ThinkingGriz said:If you hope to have, had or have girls playing sports. Then the answer to the question is clear. Men are bigger stronger faster on average with no question. Now at the college level they will use up scholarships for those born girls. And the door doesn't swing both ways. Women becoming men and dominating men's sports? Nope. If everything was a level playing field gender related then there would never need to be a distinction in sports. We would see women in every men sport at a 50/50 split. That's just not the case. NCAA is trying to force this on everybody according to a recent article I viewed. Punishing states that have a trans ban with no post season games. I don't know maybe have a transgender division.....?
:thumb: Since I choose to have no kids a long time ago I really have no or equal say in the matter, but just feel it is not fair or equally competitive to have male born competing with female born athletes. I am sorry to have to say this but hurting a trans feelings is too bad. Just my thoughts on the deal. Sorry if I have offended anyone, but OH WELL! Just my common sense speaking here! Here it comes! 10,9,8,7
UncleRico said:Grizfan-24 said:The football discussion is a dumpster fire and this won't be any different.
Working in high schools for the past 20 years not only as a teacher but as a coach, I have a markedly different approach to this issue than I assume most on this page and site do.
1. This isn't about competitive advantage and it isn't about gaming the system. This is about coming to grips with idea that our nice and neat moral framework for how the world is supposed to be doesn't line up with the bio-chemical element of nature. For my students who have transitioned or have begun the process of transitioning, I see young adults who are happier and more content with who they are. Pretty cynical perspective to have that you see people doing this for a competitive advantage. There isn't some sort of nefarious liberal goal here, this is about students and their mental and physical well being.
2. I have coached girls sports. In almost all the sports I have coached (softball and basketball) girls have taken back seats in communities. They get second everything in a lot of communities and the message many hear when this conversation comes up is, "oh now you are interested" in girls athletics and equity/fairness. You weren't around when schools dump tens of thousands of dollars in the football program and you can't get around to building softball fields so you don't have to share your facility with the cities men's slow pitch softball program or provide adequate training facilities or opportunities. This isn't a viewpoint pushed in the media all that common, but it an absolute truth in most womens/girls sports communities. There are girls and women who are troubled by the transgender issue, as it was in Idaho w/ the transgender athlete running XC for Montana, and I am respectful of that view but as far as my experience has been that isn't or doesn't appear to be a widely held opinion.
3. From a political perspective, this is a tilting at windmills issue. This is a talking point, an issue that is great fodder for the bar, political circuits and family get-togethers. I've dealt with a ton of them in my years as an educator, and it isn't a non-issue in or for most communities in the United States there are more pressing issues than whether someone chooses to identify as one sex or the other, or bathrooms. The cardinal tell is that Montana legislators don't even believe in it because they can't stand losing federal tax money for schools. This is NOT a big or important enough issue them to stand up to the federal government to stand on principle. This is purely to get the base riled up, throwing chum in the water.
--
Just my perspective.
I am a recently retired teacher and coach. I could not have said it any better. Great post.
Grizfan-24 said:The football discussion is a dumpster fire and this won't be any different.
Working in high schools for the past 20 years not only as a teacher but as a coach, I have a markedly different approach to this issue than I assume most on this page and site do.
1. This isn't about competitive advantage and it isn't about gaming the system. This is about coming to grips with idea that our nice and neat moral framework for how the world is supposed to be doesn't line up with the bio-chemical element of nature. For my students who have transitioned or have begun the process of transitioning, I see young adults who are happier and more content with who they are. Pretty cynical perspective to have that you see people doing this for a competitive advantage. There isn't some sort of nefarious liberal goal here, this is about students and their mental and physical well being.
2. I have coached girls sports. In almost all the sports I have coached (softball and basketball) girls have taken back seats in communities. They get second everything in a lot of communities and the message many hear when this conversation comes up is, "oh now you are interested" in girls athletics and equity/fairness. You weren't around when schools dump tens of thousands of dollars in the football program and you can't get around to building softball fields so you don't have to share your facility with the cities men's slow pitch softball program or provide adequate training facilities or opportunities. This isn't a viewpoint pushed in the media all that common, but it an absolute truth in most womens/girls sports communities. There are girls and women who are troubled by the transgender issue, as it was in Idaho w/ the transgender athlete running XC for Montana, and I am respectful of that view but as far as my experience has been that isn't or doesn't appear to be a widely held opinion.
3. From a political perspective, this is a tilting at windmills issue. This is a talking point, an issue that is great fodder for the bar, political circuits and family get-togethers. I've dealt with a ton of them in my years as an educator, and it isn't a non-issue in or for most communities in the United States there are more pressing issues than whether someone chooses to identify as one sex or the other, or bathrooms. The cardinal tell is that Montana legislators don't even believe in it because they can't stand losing federal tax money for schools. This is NOT a big or important enough issue them to stand up to the federal government to stand on principle. This is purely to get the base riled up, throwing chum in the water.
--
Just my perspective.
HelenaHandBasket said:Grizfan-24 said:The football discussion is a dumpster fire and this won't be any different.
Working in high schools for the past 20 years not only as a teacher but as a coach, I have a markedly different approach to this issue than I assume most on this page and site do.
1. This isn't about competitive advantage and it isn't about gaming the system. This is about coming to grips with idea that our nice and neat moral framework for how the world is supposed to be doesn't line up with the bio-chemical element of nature. For my students who have transitioned or have begun the process of transitioning, I see young adults who are happier and more content with who they are. Pretty cynical perspective to have that you see people doing this for a competitive advantage. There isn't some sort of nefarious liberal goal here, this is about students and their mental and physical well being.
2. I have coached girls sports. In almost all the sports I have coached (softball and basketball) girls have taken back seats in communities. They get second everything in a lot of communities and the message many hear when this conversation comes up is, "oh now you are interested" in girls athletics and equity/fairness. You weren't around when schools dump tens of thousands of dollars in the football program and you can't get around to building softball fields so you don't have to share your facility with the cities men's slow pitch softball program or provide adequate training facilities or opportunities. This isn't a viewpoint pushed in the media all that common, but it an absolute truth in most womens/girls sports communities. There are girls and women who are troubled by the transgender issue, as it was in Idaho w/ the transgender athlete running XC for Montana, and I am respectful of that view but as far as my experience has been that isn't or doesn't appear to be a widely held opinion.
3. From a political perspective, this is a tilting at windmills issue. This is a talking point, an issue that is great fodder for the bar, political circuits and family get-togethers. I've dealt with a ton of them in my years as an educator, and it isn't a non-issue in or for most communities in the United States there are more pressing issues than whether someone chooses to identify as one sex or the other, or bathrooms. The cardinal tell is that Montana legislators don't even believe in it because they can't stand losing federal tax money for schools. This is NOT a big or important enough issue them to stand up to the federal government to stand on principle. This is purely to get the base riled up, throwing chum in the water.
--
Just my perspective.
You nailed it, but of course this is a very polarized subject, and the group holding hands around the opposite pole....well you know.