Scheduling FBS opponents - good or bad?

[70Griz]

I bet UM nets more per game playing at home than it did playing UW. Jeez, look at the numbers. UM must gross almost $800,000 playing at home against. D-II. That’s why UM doesn’t play many P5 games. They don’t make anymore money. Including all of what goes to UM, they make money playing at home.

I will bet the number is no more than $600,000 net. At best a wash if you don't mind DII's on the schedule. I do. Players like to play FBS teams; DII's not so much.

Sorry, kem, I can't agree with your statement. Regardless of the $ amount, you can't convince me that the Grizzlies were all giggles after the Huskies drilled them in 2017. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm guessing they would rather play an OOC meaningful game against a MVC team or similar FCS team that would certainly get the attention of the selection committee when it counts most - as opposed to getting there asses kicked by a P5 school. Nothing to gain with getting your butt whipped that badly.

 

[PlayerRep]

I bet UM nets more per game playing at home than it did playing UW. Jeez, look at the numbers. UM must gross almost $800,000 playing at home against. D-II. That’s why UM doesn’t play many P5 games. They don’t make anymore money. Including all of what goes to UM, they make money playing at home.

I will bet the number is no more than $600,000 net. At best a wash if you don't mind DII's on the schedule. I do. Players like to play FBS teams; DII's not so much.

I will bet UM didn’t come close to netting $600,000 when they were paid only $625,000 by UW a couple years ago.

 

[tourist]

I have no data, Kem. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I don't collect trivia like that. Someone probably does, if not for the Griz, then for other FCS programs. Where the hell would the term 'body bad game' come from if it wasn't true?

 

[PlayerRep]

I have no data, Kem. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I don't collect trivia like that. Someone probably does, if not for the Griz, then for other FCS programs. Where the hell would the term 'body bad game' come from if it wasn't true?

Various coaches and UM athletic dept. people have said that over the years. But what would they know.

At Iowa, Swogger broke a thumb, or something like that, that hampered him much of the rest of the season and he may have missed a game. Johnson went out for the season. At Oregon, a starting linebacker got hurt. Don't recall any UW injuries of note. My recollection is that some guys were hurt at Wyo. many years ago, which some coaches/athletic department people thought may have kept the Griz from winning the national championship team.

Playing an FBS game every 3 or 4 years is different than playing 1 or 2 of them every year. My view is that playing a P5 team decreases the chances of making the playoffs and getting a seed too.

 

[tourist]

Thanks for the input, PR. I remembered injuries were sustained, not specifics.

 

[poorgriz]

Thanks for the input, PR. I remembered injuries were sustained, not specifics.

The injury thing has been debated a lot, and there is no proof playing up increases the chance of injury. This is especially true when you throw WYOMING into the discussion. Ash made a statement once that his opinion was actually the opposite, more likely to get injured when playing down. This is due to players likely not being coached as well, and likely not being as fundamentally sound in blocking and tackling, etc.

 

[grizindabox]

Where the hell would the term 'body bad game' come from if it wasn't true?

Probably the figurative meaning of getting beat 50-7 as opposed to the literal meaning of having the entire defense get injured, maimed, or killed.

 

[PlayerRep]

Thanks for the input, PR. I remembered injuries were sustained, not specifics.

The injury thing has been debated a lot, and there is no proof playing up increases the chance of injury. This is especially true when you throw WYOMING into the discussion. Ash made a statement once that his opinion was actually the opposite, more likely to get injured when playing down. This is due to players likely not being coached as well, and likely not being as fundamentally sound in blocking and tackling, etc.

You are welcome to rely on Ash. I will take the UM coaches. Also, he Ash comment you mentioned doesn't address the question of playing up to FBS. Can you not stick to the topic?

Edit: Looked at another of your posts where you said that another poster had said there is more risk playing down. Now, it's Ash. Let's see you prove that Ash said that.

 

[Silvertip]

So...looking at where (1) UM can realistically cut spending and (2) make up any financial deficits this thread has produced a bunch of nonstarters. My admittedly limited review of department expenditures shows few if any that can be deleted without severe negative impact. I read a lot of "save money" but don't make any changes that don't include prospects for participating in the FCS playoffs...a money losing ego trip. Also there's hardly anybody in the FCS worth bring in for less than a 100K check against an ominously diminishing number of butts in WaGriz on an increasing number of Saturdays.

Using the 2019 OOC schedule as a template what will be the casual fan's reaction to Haslem's musing over raising ticket prices to watch the likes of the North Alabama's and Monmouth's of the world? Charging more for suspect value has never been a winner. And yah, how does saving money by eliminating those trips to North Dakota stack up with paying the freight to bring in an obscure team from Florence, Alabama?! Until the administration does a reality check and starts making some hard choices the problem will only grow.

In my earlier post I avoided using the "body bag" term knowing full well that predictably somebody else wouldn't disappoint me. Call it what you will, but while the Griz still have enough appeal to draw interest from a Power 5 school it's past time to let them know that UM's athletic department's travel bureau is open and eager for business. If anybody knows where else you can make half a million $$$$ plus in three hours please share...? False pride won't pay the bills.

I bet UM nets more per game playing at home than it did playing UW. Jeez, look at the numbers. UM must gross almost $800,000 playing at home against. D-II. That’s why UM doesn’t play many P5 games. They don’t make anymore money. Including all of what goes to UM, they make money playing at home.

If the $800,000 figure you use is even close to accurate it may well be a static figure that could also shrink if fans begin weighting the prospect of paying more for tickets for the same menu of uninspiring OOC visitors. The department may soon learn that fan support is finite if cost gets out of hand. We know that home crowd number quotes have become increasingly suspect. Maybe more important is the fact that even if the WaGriz cash cow is making the suggested numbers athletic department solvency remains in the dumper. A decision on whether or not an annual P5 game is practical may well revolve around comparing the true net return on a home OOC game against what a given P5 game will produce. I still see no other money raising option which can produce the kind of cash infusion UM must have.

PS: As for the injury debate think Appy State - Michigan. Video of the game remains an evergreen staple on ESPN and elsewhere. The Mountaineers have never enjoyed that much publicity before or since. It can happen...

 

[poorgriz]

Thanks for the input, PR. I remembered injuries were sustained, not specifics.

The injury thing has been debated a lot, and there is no proof playing up increases the chance of injury. This is especially true when you throw WYOMING into the discussion. Ash made a statement once that his opinion was actually the opposite, more likely to get injured when playing down. This is due to players likely not being coached as well, and likely not being as fundamentally sound in blocking and tackling, etc.

You are welcome to rely on Ash. I will take the UM coaches. Also, he Ash comment you mentioned doesn't address the question of playing up to FBS. Can you not stick to the topic?

Edit: Looked at another of your posts where you said that another poster had said there is more risk playing down. Now, it's Ash. Let's see you prove that Ash said that.

Settle down there hoss, I'm just stating my opinion that the risk of injuries doesn't go up when you play up. Are you saying the Griz coaches think their players are more likely to get hurt in a game against UO versus MSU? I just quoted Ash because he generally said he didn't think the data backed that up. No idea if the data backs up the idea that injuries go up when playing down either, I think he just was stating his general opinion on it. I totally agree it sucks and it's embarrassing to get throttled 70 to 7, but it's not like the big bad strong FBS players are going to have the smaller, weaker, griz players dropping like flies.

 

[Raider]

Thanks for the input, PR. I remembered injuries were sustained, not specifics.

The injury thing has been debated a lot, and there is no proof playing up increases the chance of injury. This is especially true when you throw WYOMING into the discussion. Ash made a statement once that his opinion was actually the opposite, more likely to get injured when playing down. This is due to players likely not being coached as well, and likely not being as fundamentally sound in blocking and tackling, etc.

I have had two college coaches tell me the exact same thing, almost verbatim.

I wonder how Reese Phillips feels about this, after all, he suffered a career ending injury against UW right? Err, wait.......

 

[kemajic]

I have no data, Kem. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I don't collect trivia like that. Someone probably does, if not for the Griz, then for other FCS programs. Where the hell would the term 'body bad game' come from if it wasn't true?

Various coaches and UM athletic dept. people have said that over the years. But what would they know.

At Iowa, Swogger broke a thumb, or something like that, that hampered him much of the rest of the season and he may have missed a game. Johnson went out for the season. At Oregon, a starting linebacker got hurt. Don't recall any UW injuries of note. My recollection is that some guys were hurt at Wyo. many years ago, which some coaches/athletic department people thought may have kept the Griz from winning the national championship team.

Playing an FBS game every 3 or 4 years is different than playing 1 or 2 of them every year. My view is that playing a P5 team decreases the chances of making the playoffs and getting a seed too.

And of course none of these types of injuries occured in FCS games. I'll believe the narrative when I see some real comparative data. The injury argument looks to me like a smoke screen put up by those who are afraid of having an L on record.

 

[kemajic]

I bet UM nets more per game playing at home than it did playing UW. Jeez, look at the numbers. UM must gross almost $800,000 playing at home against. D-II. That’s why UM doesn’t play many P5 games. They don’t make anymore money. Including all of what goes to UM, they make money playing at home.

I will bet the number is no more than $600,000 net. At best a wash if you don't mind DII's on the schedule. I do. Players like to play FBS teams; DII's not so much.

Sorry, kem, I can't agree with your statement. Regardless of the $ amount, you can't convince me that the Grizzlies were all giggles after the Huskies drilled them in 2017. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm guessing they would rather play an OOC meaningful game against a MVC team or similar FCS team that would certainly get the attention of the selection committee when it counts most - as opposed to getting there asses kicked by a P5 school. Nothing to gain with getting your butt whipped that badly.

The solution to that is to play up and not get your butt whipped that badly. I think the NDSU players have loved their play up games.

 

[kemajic]

I have no data, Kem. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I don't collect trivia like that. Someone probably does, if not for the Griz, then for other FCS programs. Where the hell would the term 'body bad game' come from if it wasn't true?

From guys like you.

 

[ilovethecats]

If there was an ounce of truth in the idea that playing up is more likely to cause injuries, than these coaches and athletic directors are being VERY irresponsible by scheduling these games.

But luckily there isn’t an ounce of truth. Sure, you might get beat up and down the field, but you’re no more likely to get hurt.

Geeze, some of you act like our kids are just thes soft little hundred pounders going up against grown men at 300 at every position.

Thank god our kids don’t share this same fear of guaranteed injuries like some fans!

 

[kemajic]

Thanks for the input, PR. I remembered injuries were sustained, not specifics.

The injury thing has been debated a lot, and there is no proof playing up increases the chance of injury. This is especially true when you throw WYOMING into the discussion. Ash made a statement once that his opinion was actually the opposite, more likely to get injured when playing down. This is due to players likely not being coached as well, and likely not being as fundamentally sound in blocking and tackling, etc.

I have had two college coaches tell me the exact same thing, almost verbatim.

I wonder how Reese Phillips feels about this, after all, he suffered a career ending injury against UW right? Err, wait.......

Yes, went down against daunting Savannah St. after completing 13 of his 14 passes. Played horribly against UW, but was not even nicked.

 

[tourist]

"From guys like you."--Kem
Actually, no. It came from the Eagles/Redskins game in 1990 on MNF. Skins had nine players injured and carted off. One Eagle coined the term, with a comment to other Skins players after #8, something to the effect of, "You guys gonna need any more body bags?"
You're welcome.

 

[Raider]

I bet UM nets more per game playing at home than it did playing UW. Jeez, look at the numbers. UM must gross almost $800,000 playing at home against. D-II. That’s why UM doesn’t play many P5 games. They don’t make anymore money. Including all of what goes to UM, they make money playing at home.

I will bet the number is no more than $600,000 net. At best a wash if you don't mind DII's on the schedule. I do. Players like to play FBS teams; DII's not so much.

Sorry, kem, I can't agree with your statement. Regardless of the $ amount, you can't convince me that the Grizzlies were all giggles after the Huskies drilled them in 2017. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm guessing they would rather play an OOC meaningful game against a MVC team or similar FCS team that would certainly get the attention of the selection committee when it counts most - as opposed to getting there asses kicked by a P5 school. Nothing to gain with getting your butt whipped that badly.

The solution to that is to play up and not get your butt whipped that badly. I think the NDSU players have loved their play up games.

Agreed. I believe NDSU is 5-0 in their last 5 “play up” games. EWU has competed very well also. We have a roll over approach, which I will never understand. It was this way in the mid 2000’s when we were the dominate program. Don’t get it, never will.

 

[Spanky2]

I will bet the number is no more than $600,000 net. At best a wash if you don't mind DII's on the schedule. I do. Players like to play FBS teams; DII's not so much.

Sorry, kem, I can't agree with your statement. Regardless of the $ amount, you can't convince me that the Grizzlies were all giggles after the Huskies drilled them in 2017. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm guessing they would rather play an OOC meaningful game against a MVC team or similar FCS team that would certainly get the attention of the selection committee when it counts most - as opposed to getting there asses kicked by a P5 school. Nothing to gain with getting your butt whipped that badly.

The solution to that is to play up and not get your butt whipped that badly. I think the NDSU players have loved their play up games.

Agreed. I believe NDSU is 5-0 in their last 5 “play up” games. EWU has competed very well also. We have a roll over approach, which I will never understand. It was this way in the mid 2000’s when we were the dominate program. Don’t get it, never will.

That is my observation. We seem to chalk those games up to a loss before playing the game. Bad attitude.

 

[George Ferguson]

Sorry, kem, I can't agree with your statement. Regardless of the $ amount, you can't convince me that the Grizzlies were all giggles after the Huskies drilled them in 2017. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm guessing they would rather play an OOC meaningful game against a MVC team or similar FCS team that would certainly get the attention of the selection committee when it counts most - as opposed to getting there asses kicked by a P5 school. Nothing to gain with getting your butt whipped that badly.

The solution to that is to play up and not get your butt whipped that badly. I think the NDSU players have loved their play up games.

Agreed. I believe NDSU is 5-0 in their last 5 “play up” games. EWU has competed very well also. We have a roll over approach, which I will never understand. It was this way in the mid 2000’s when we were the dominate program. Don’t get it, never will.

That is my observation. We seem to chalk those games up to a loss before playing the game. Bad attitude.

The players and coaches or the fans?? I've been to multiple Griz vs FBS games, I've never seen or felt the team or coaches ever chalked the game up to a loss. Never saw any difference in emotion, intensity or effort on the field. The fans, I agree, and I'm one of them. I'm just realistic with myself. I do not believe the Griz will beat Oregon. I have no problem though and won't call out others for believing the Griz will win that game.

Edit: I should also mention that my bad attitude towards the outcome of the Oregon game next fall will have no baring on how the actual team and coaches feel about that game.