Pflu: "...team knows the president made a mistake"

[live4dagriz]

This ain't good versus evil. And if it was, a good man spoke out and still lost to evil.

The "choices" of Royce Engstrom are what have caused unprecedented economic damage to the University of Montana. If there is an economic argument to be made regarding integrity, or the lack of it, there it is.

So if the Griz win the National Championship this year or next or in 5 years, do you think that will help? Do you think anyone will give a rats ass about O'Day or Pflugrad if they win it all this year? In fact if the Griz do win, do you think it could be said that it was the correct decision to get rid of them both? Maybe it was just Engstrom using what he thought with a decision of integrity in firing them both and maybe in the long run he was actually right.

You're a f***[*] tool. The Griz could win 22 nc's in a row and he still made the wrong decision...

Yea but how cool would that be?

 

[Bluenoser]

You're a f***[*] tool. The Griz could win 22 nc's in a row and he still made the wrong decision...

Yea but how cool would that be?

The board would be unreadable with all the move up threads.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

The nexus of what...

Show me some objective data proving that any decision made by Engstrom directly correlates with enrollment declines. Is that clear enough, Captain Kangaroo?

Lots of schools have declining enrollment, for lots of different reasons.

 

[PlayerRep]

The nexus of what...

Show me some objective data proving that any decision made by Engstrom directly correlates with enrollment declines. Is that clear enough, Captain Kangaroo?

Lots of schools have declining enrollment, for lots of different reasons.

It is clear that the negative press, locally and nationally, increased significantly due to various actions, in-actions and statements by Engtstrom. It is clear that the negative press contributed to the decline in enrollment. At the same time, MSU, a similarly situated school, increased its enrollment significantly. As for data, feel free to produce your data disproving what I just said.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Jesus, I don't even like Engstrom, but some of you guys are sloppy thinkers. By the way, I have a really, really funny Engstrom story to tell you over a beer sometime.

 

[Gametime]

This ain't good versus evil. And if it was, a good man spoke out and still lost to evil.

The "choices" of Royce Engstrom are what have caused unprecedented economic damage to the University of Montana. If there is an economic argument to be made regarding integrity, or the lack of it, there it is.

So if the Griz win the National Championship this year or next or in 5 years, do you think that will help? Do you think anyone will give a rats ass about O'Day or Pflugrad if they win it all this year? In fact if the Griz do win, do you think it could be said that it was the correct decision to get rid of them both? Maybe it was just Engstrom using what he thought with a decision of integrity in firing them both and maybe in the long run he was actually right.

You're a f***[*] tool. The Griz could win 22 nc's in a row and he still made the wrong decision...

Easy there Computer Tough Guy, take a deep breath. I know most of this advanced thinking is way over your head. Friendly note, you may want to get your blood pressure checked there fella.....and talk to someone about your anger issues.

 

[UMGriz75]

"The Chicago Fed has an interesting new finding: college enrollment (particularly community-college and public-university enrollment) not only spiked during the Great Recession, it almost always goes up when the economy goes down."

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/The-312/November-2012/College-Enrollment-Spikes-During-the-Great-Recession-As-It-Has-During-Less-Great-Recessions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Except when a University President lets a violent rapist leave the country after talking to him about the "situation" for a week, Main Hall claims "perhaps its for the best," -- gosh, there is a public statement worthy of some criticism -- and then turns on the football team to make up for the public outrage and manages to give the entire state the impression that UM is "rape nation" while never -- NEVER -- defending the institution by pointing out that "incidents" on campus are among the lowest of peer schools and communities.

Then enrollment plummets.

Are there really people out there that claim its all just a "coincidence?"

 

[lynn sellegren]

The nexus of what...

Show me some objective data proving that any decision made by Engstrom directly correlates with enrollment declines. Is that clear enough, Captain Kangaroo?

Lots of schools have declining enrollment, for lots of different reasons.

It is clear that the negative press, locally and nationally, increased significantly due to various actions, in-actions and statements by Engtstrom. It is clear that the negative press contributed to the decline in enrollment. At the same time, MSU, a similarly situated school, increased its enrollment significantly. As for data, feel free to produce your data disproving what I just said.

I agree somewhat. I think the bad press and no marketing has contributed to lower enrollment. I also believe that economics have had a great effect on where students and their parents are seeking higher education and a bigger bang for their buck. Let's face it, in a technological society, students are going to the colleges that are strong in STEM coursework and programs. MSU's reputation as a fine engineering school, at a decent cost is appealing to students who want to find employment with good pay after earning a BS. The pendulum will swing back as we again see that liberal arts creates diverse and critical thinkers and problem solvers. I actually think it's ok for UM's numbers to be down. MSU is having some issues with growing pains that Cruzado and company are sweeping under the rug.

 

[tnt]

Also not included in the figures was the increase in enrollment, as result of impact funding for displaced mill workers and associated businesses. When the free money stopped so did their education.

Full classes going towards degree requirements in popular degree programs are pretty secure. Humanities and some of their more unusuall electives have more to worry about. But then they have been on the cutting block for a while now.

 

[RABIDAWG]

"OVER? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? I don't think so."

The sad reality is that there are a lot of injustices that persist. The guilty work really hard to put them in the rearview mirror and get down the road as far as possible. The only way more information comes out that makes any difference is if it is in a court of law. Otherwise the turds will remain buried -- but reek nonetheless.

Damn, ...did I miss something? I don't remember the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor!!

We're going to have to put you on super secret probation...

Dammit!! Right over my head…whoosh!

 

[stubbins]

The "choices" of Royce Engstrom are what have caused unprecedented economic damage to the University of Montana. If there is an economic argument to be made regarding integrity, or the lack of it, there it is.

So if the Griz win the National Championship this year or next or in 5 years, do you think that will help? Do you think anyone will give a rats ass about O'Day or Pflugrad if they win it all this year? In fact if the Griz do win, do you think it could be said that it was the correct decision to get rid of them both? Maybe it was just Engstrom using what he thought with a decision of integrity in firing them both and maybe in the long run he was actually right.

You're a f***[*] tool. The Griz could win 22 nc's in a row and he still made the wrong decision...

Easy there Computer Tough Guy, take a deep breath. I know most of this advanced thinking is way over your head. Friendly note, you may want to get your blood pressure checked there fella.....and talk to someone about your anger issues.

Nope, I'm good. If I was angry I would've used some sort of emoticon...you're just a tool.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

As is the case with many big law firms nationwide, the traditional bricks and mortar university education represents a flawed business model.

Why pay big dollars to listen to third-rate lecturers when you can be teleconferenced in to lectures by the top educators in just about any academic field imaginable? That's the direction we're heading, and if you think UM's modest enrollment declines are a big deal, you aren't prepared for what's coming. Welcome to the Information Age.

 

[lynn sellegren]

As is the case with many big law firms nationwide, the traditional bricks and mortar university education represents a flawed business model.

Why pay big dollars to listen to third-rate lecturers when you can be teleconferenced in to lectures by the top educators in just about any academic field imaginable? That's the direction we're heading, and if you think UM's modest enrollment declines are a big deal, you aren't prepared for what's coming. Welcome to the Information Age.

Very true, MOOCS are really going to take a bite out of traditional college enrollment and if you've ever taken a Coursera course or looked at what they offer and by whom, you'll understand.

 

[Gametime]

So if the Griz win the National Championship this year or next or in 5 years, do you think that will help? Do you think anyone will give a rats ass about O'Day or Pflugrad if they win it all this year? In fact if the Griz do win, do you think it could be said that it was the correct decision to get rid of them both? Maybe it was just Engstrom using what he thought with a decision of integrity in firing them both and maybe in the long run he was actually right.

You're a f***[*] tool. The Griz could win 22 nc's in a row and he still made the wrong decision...

Easy there Computer Tough Guy, take a deep breath. I know most of this advanced thinking is way over your head. Friendly note, you may want to get your blood pressure checked there fella.....and talk to someone about your anger issues.

Nope, I'm good. If I was angry I would've used some sort of emoticon...you're just a tool.

What kind of tool? A hammer that's tough and cool, a screw driver, awful useful. A drill, really helpful. Quick think of a demeaning one. I will time you...go.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

"The Chicago Fed has an interesting new finding: college enrollment (particularly community-college and public-university enrollment) not only spiked during the Great Recession, it almost always goes up when the economy goes down."

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/The-312/November-2012/College-Enrollment-Spikes-During-the-Great-Recession-As-It-Has-During-Less-Great-Recessions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Except when a University President lets a violent rapist leave the country after talking to him about the "situation" for a week, Main Hall claims "perhaps its for the best," -- gosh, there is a public statement worthy of some criticism -- and then turns on the football team to make up for the public outrage and manages to give the entire state the impression that UM is "rape nation" while never -- NEVER -- defending the institution by pointing out that "incidents" on campus are among the lowest of peer schools and communities.

Then enrollment plummets.

Are there really people out there that claim its all just a "coincidence?"

Do you want me to send you a list of all the colleges and universities who are experiencing similar declines? How much time do you have?

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2116059,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[PlayerRep]

"The Chicago Fed has an interesting new finding: college enrollment (particularly community-college and public-university enrollment) not only spiked during the Great Recession, it almost always goes up when the economy goes down."

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/The-312/November-2012/College-Enrollment-Spikes-During-the-Great-Recession-As-It-Has-During-Less-Great-Recessions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Except when a University President lets a violent rapist leave the country after talking to him about the "situation" for a week, Main Hall claims "perhaps its for the best," -- gosh, there is a public statement worthy of some criticism -- and then turns on the football team to make up for the public outrage and manages to give the entire state the impression that UM is "rape nation" while never -- NEVER -- defending the institution by pointing out that "incidents" on campus are among the lowest of peer schools and communities.

Then enrollment plummets.

Are there really people out there that claim its all just a "coincidence?"

Do you want me to send you a list of all the colleges and universities who are experiencing similar declines? How much time do you have?

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2116059,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"University Of Montana Enrollment Drops After Attention Brought To Sexual Assaults On Campus"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/01/university-of-montana-enrollment-sexual-assaults_n_1927896.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the Montana university system, recently announced figures say that the overall decline in the state was 277 full-time students. UM was down 421 from 2012. UM was down 726 last year. MSU increased its enrollment significantly in both years.

http://newstalkkgvo.com/university-of-montana-sees-2013-enrollment-drop-now-lower-than-montana-state-university/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[cclarkblues]

Here's the deal. A guy made a decision to stand up for a kid that he had known most of his life. He didn't consider the political implications or if he did, he didn't worry about them. He stood up for the kid. Maybe some of you geniuses and second guessers will need someone to stand up for you some day. Nobody is immune to false witness. Perhaps they will stand up for you or perhaps they will keep their mouths shut to keep the status quo.

Doing what you feel is right is no guarantee of a positive outcome especially in today's political climate. There are many venal, corrupt and incompetent people who will do anything to save their own bacon or advance their agendas.

I hope Robin got a chance to spend some time with some of his old friends and ex=players while he was here. And when the time comes to step through the door into the next phase of eternity I suspect he will have no regrets about this decision at all. Hopefully the rest of us will be able to say the same.

 

[PlayerRep]

Here's the deal. A guy made a decision to stand up for a kid that he had known most of his life. He didn't consider the political implications or if he did, he didn't worry about them. He stood up for the kid. Maybe some of you geniuses and second guessers will need someone to stand up for you some day. Nobody is immune to false witness. Perhaps they will stand up for you or perhaps they will keep their mouths shut to keep the status quo.

Doing what you feel is right is no guarantee of a positive outcome especially in today's political climate. There are many venal, corrupt and incompetent people who will do anything to save their own bacon or advance their agendas.

I hope Robin got a chance to spend some time with some of his old friends and ex=players while he was here. And when the time comes to step through the door into the next phase of eternity I suspect he will have no regrets about this decision at all. Hopefully the rest of us will be able to say the same.

Agreed. And it's not like Pflu called a press conference to support JJ and defy the PC view coming out of Engstrom and his administration. After the university/athletic department group of 3, with the knowledge of Engstrom, reinstated JJ to play in the Saturday scrimmage (the one he was 9-9 passing in, I believe), Pflu answered questions from the sportswriter (presumably on the field) about JJ. The sportswriter put them in his article. While I assume Pflu said those things, I felt from day 1 that it was bad judgment by the reporter to include all of the quotes. I respect Pflu, and people like him, who are not afraid to stand up for what they believe in. It's easy to remain silent; it takes courage to speak out.

 

[griz4life]

Actually, Plfu's comments about Jordan's character and leadership onfield and off were issued in press release by the SID. The Missoulian certainly received a copy, but other people did, too. I did.
I don't want to quibble. I do think it's worth clarifying the source because Pflu's comments weren't made off the cuff to a journo. They were made to someone in athletics, written up and disseminated. Big difference.

 

[argh!]

Why pay big dollars to listen to third-rate lecturers when you can be teleconferenced in to lectures by the top educators in just about any academic field imaginable? That's the direction we're heading, and if you think UM's modest enrollment declines are a big deal, you aren't prepared for what's coming. Welcome to the Information Age.

this viewpoint doesn't take into account the biggest problem associated with distance learning that doesn't occur to the same level in the traditional model: students dropping out. a lot of online courses have huge (90%+) dropout rates. this isn't because they are harder or less interesting than more traditional courses, but rather because face-to-face interactions tend to increase the level of accountability for both the students and instructors.