Pflu: "...team knows the president made a mistake"

[AllWeatherFan]

All Robin had to do to save his job was to say nothing. His character would have been preserved. He should have known better. And now he does.

Very famous quote -- often attributed to Irish political philosopher Edmund Burke, but probably a paraphrase:

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

This ain't good versus evil. And if it was, a good man spoke out and still lost to evil.

 

[UMGriz75]

All Robin had to do to save his job was to say nothing. His character would have been preserved. He should have known better. And now he does.

Very famous quote -- often attributed to Irish political philosopher Edmund Burke, but probably a paraphrase:

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

This ain't good versus evil. And if it was, a good man spoke out and still lost to evil.

The "choices" of Royce Engstrom are what have caused unprecedented economic damage to the University of Montana. If there is an economic argument to be made regarding integrity, or the lack of it, there it is.

 

[Gametime]

All Robin had to do to save his job was to say nothing. His character would have been preserved. He should have known better. And now he does.

Absolutely correct!!!! JJ came out the big winner and will move on after next year and probably not look back here to much. While Robin and Jim could have stayed for years and years with continued success. The University and Program is bigger than one player and one team.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

All Robin had to do to save his job was to say nothing. His character would have been preserved. He should have known better. And now he does.

Very famous quote -- often attributed to Irish political philosopher Edmund Burke, but probably a paraphrase:

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

This ain't good versus evil. And if it was, a good man spoke out and still lost to evil.

The "choices" of Royce Engstrom are what have caused unprecedented economic damage to the University of Montana. If there is an economic argument to be made regarding integrity, or the lack of it, there it is.

...says the man who is fond of the phrase "false equivalency."

 

[Gametime]

All Robin had to do to save his job was to say nothing. His character would have been preserved. He should have known better. And now he does.

No. He would have shown no character at all by remaining silent.

You are a very intelligent man with no common sense. The prisons and unemployment offices are full of people who stood on principle. I wanted Robin to keep his job.

+1,000,000 (I had to throw in the Million to be consistent with my previous posts that have touched a nerve on other posters )

 

[Ursa Major]

All Robin had to do to save his job was to say nothing.

Well, yes, it worked that way in Germany if that's our model, but it told me a great deal about the character of Robin Pflugrad that he chose to speak out on an issue of great importance to him: the integrity of Jordan Johnson.

Didn't you once tell me that that the first person to use a Nazi analogy lost the debate?

I'm a huge defender of our former coach and AD and I agree with much of what you wrote 75 but it does matter what the head coach of the University of Montana says to the media. It was a mistake, plain and simple.

 

[UMGriz75]

...says the man who is fond of the phrase "false equivalency."

I only used the phrase once, and did not marry it. I refuse to get remarried until I have paid off another house to give away.

 

[Gametime]

All Robin had to do to save his job was to say nothing. His character would have been preserved. He should have known better. And now he does.

Very famous quote -- often attributed to Irish political philosopher Edmund Burke, but probably a paraphrase:

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

This ain't good versus evil. And if it was, a good man spoke out and still lost to evil.

The "choices" of Royce Engstrom are what have caused unprecedented economic damage to the University of Montana. If there is an economic argument to be made regarding integrity, or the lack of it, there it is.

So if the Griz win the National Championship this year or next or in 5 years, do you think that will help? Do you think anyone will give a rats ass about O'Day or Pflugrad if they win it all this year? In fact if the Griz do win, do you think it could be said that it was the correct decision to get rid of them both? Maybe it was just Engstrom using what he thought with a decision of integrity in firing them both and maybe in the long run he was actually right.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

...says the man who is fond of the phrase "false equivalency."

I only used the phrase once, and did not marry it. I refuse to get remarried until I have paid off another house to give away.

Touché.

 

[PlayerRep]

Very famous quote -- often attributed to Irish political philosopher Edmund Burke, but probably a paraphrase:

This ain't good versus evil. And if it was, a good man spoke out and still lost to evil.

The "choices" of Royce Engstrom are what have caused unprecedented economic damage to the University of Montana. If there is an economic argument to be made regarding integrity, or the lack of it, there it is.

So if the Griz win the National Championship this year or next or in 5 years, do you think that will help? Do you think anyone will give a rats ass about O'Day or Pflugrad if they win it all this year? In fact if the Griz do win, do you think it could be said that it was the correct decision to get rid of them both? Maybe it was just Engstrom using what he thought with a decision of integrity in firing them both and maybe in the long run he was actually right.

If UM wins the nat'l championship this year, it will be a good reminder that UM would have won the nat'l championship last year, absent bad decisions by Engstrom.

 

[Mr. Greenjeans]

So if JJ or any other player was a "bad character" player with some sort of history of bad behavior and was charged in the same circumstance, would you expect the head coach and the AD to come out and throw him under the bus because they were speaking their mind??? No, you would expect them to shut their mouths under both circumstance. You can't have it both ways.

That proposes a "false choice."

You have to have it both ways. You support people of good character. You don't pretend that there is a moral equivalency in remaining silent between letting "the system run its course" and not prejudicing it, and when good people are overtly harmed, and argue that "good men" should remain silent.

All this tool has is that Pflu made a bad call when he publicly backed jj and I agree with him, other than he's grasping real hard for some straws and it's not really working out.

So to him Pflu making a comment about JJ is horrible and something that one should be fired for. Yet Engstrom wanting multiple Griz players booted off the team before being found guilty of anything and before the facts come out is perfectly acceptable.

Hm...which is worse, trying to throw multiple players futures under the bus to appear "tough on crime" in some frantic knee-jerk reaction before knowing the facts, or making a fairly minor (albeit ill-advised) comment about supporting a player?

In these PC times that is the question and the new rules DOJ has imposed on us and wants to impose on all college campuses abridge free speech. Under these rules a guy (or gal) could be up for discipline if someone "thought" they were subject to sexual harassment, not an actual act of harassment. These DOJ rules are so subjectively written that asking someone out for a date could be construed as "sexual harassment" and they codify kangaroo courts like the one that booted jj using a preponderance of evidence standard that basically means you are at the mercy of the makeup of these kangaroo courts. There is a free speech lawyer Eugene Volokh that has a blog that points out the Orwellian aspects of what is going down. I'll add that I'm sure UM 75 can elaborate my layman's legal take, I have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express but I'm not a tycoon of industry like gametime nor an attorney at law. :lol:

 

[UMGriz75]

So if the Griz win the National Championship this year or next or in 5 years, do you think that will help? Do you think anyone will give a rats ass about O'Day or Pflugrad if they win it all this year? In fact if the Griz do win, do you think it could be said that it was the correct decision to get rid of them both? Maybe it was just Engstrom using what he thought with a decision of integrity in firing them both and maybe in the long run he was actually right.

Well, "maybe in the long run the Japanese actually won WWII."

If Engstrom thought "integrity" meant firing a coach that supported a player that the coach believed had high integrity, then Engstrom 1) doesn't know what a coach is, and 2) I have no idea if winning another national championship would reverse the economic damage that Engstrom has done to the University of Montana and particularly if that piece of anticipatory revisionism means that UM wouldn't have won a national championship under Robin Pflugrad.

 

[Mr. Greenjeans]

Very famous quote -- often attributed to Irish political philosopher Edmund Burke, but probably a paraphrase:

This ain't good versus evil. And if it was, a good man spoke out and still lost to evil.

The "choices" of Royce Engstrom are what have caused unprecedented economic damage to the University of Montana. If there is an economic argument to be made regarding integrity, or the lack of it, there it is.

So if the Griz win the National Championship this year or next or in 5 years, do you think that will help? Do you think anyone will give a rats ass about O'Day or Pflugrad if they win it all this year? In fact if the Griz do win, do you think it could be said that it was the correct decision to get rid of them both? Maybe it was just Engstrom using what he thought with a decision of integrity in firing them both and maybe in the long run he was actually right.

WHOOSH as the point goes right over gametime's head :shock: :shock: :shock: .

Keep digging, are you an Obamacare consultant...oh wait thats unfair to that group. :lol:

 

[UMGriz75]

I'm a huge defender of our former coach and AD and I agree with much of what you wrote 75 but it does matter what the head coach of the University of Montana says to the media. It was a mistake, plain and simple.

There are honorable mistakes and dishonorable mistakes.

Robin Pflugrad arguably made one.

I disagree that he did, but it is arguable. I doubt it would have hurt the University of Montana in any measurable way. In a state like Montana, sticking up for your kids likely has more positive than negative implications. Indeed, had Engstrom not over-reacted, no one would have even remembered it. In particular, after vindication.

If he did make a "mistake" it was an honorable one.

Royce Engstrom not-so-arguably made several mistakes. And most of them fall into the dishonorable category and they emphatically did bring direct economic harm to the University of Montana.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Royce Engstrom not-so-arguably made several mistakes. And most of them fall into the dishonorable category and they emphatically did bring direct economic harm to the University of Montana.

Your words are delicious, professor, but can you show the data that prove the nexus?

 

[UMGriz75]

Royce Engstrom not-so-arguably made several mistakes. And most of them fall into the dishonorable category and they emphatically did bring direct economic harm to the University of Montana.

Your words are delicious, professor, but can you show the data that prove the nexus?

Well, at the moment, I am trying to salvage one of my classes due to "budget cuts." My Department says it is facing problems with nearly 40 such classes on orders from "Main Hall."

 

[Mr. Greenjeans]

Royce Engstrom not-so-arguably made several mistakes. And most of them fall into the dishonorable category and they emphatically did bring direct economic harm to the University of Montana.

Your words are delicious, professor, but can you show the data that prove the nexus?

The nexus of what, that's cute but irrelevant, nice phrase :lol: :lol: :lol: .

You're picking nits and show which nits you align yourself with. You try to deflect the point to make it about data but declining enrollment numbers (data) tend to , dare I say, prove his point. Try again.

 

[Ursa Major]

I'm a huge defender of our former coach and AD and I agree with much of what you wrote 75 but it does matter what the head coach of the University of Montana says to the media. It was a mistake, plain and simple.

There are honorable mistakes and dishonorable mistakes.

Robin Pflugrad arguably made one.

I disagree that he did, but it is arguable. I doubt it would have hurt the University of Montana in any measurable way. Indeed, had Engstrom not over-reacted, no one would have even remembered it. In particular, after vindication.

If he did make a "mistake" it was an honorable one.

Royce Engstrom not-so-arguably made several mistakes. And most of them fall into the dishonorable category and they emphatically did bring direct economic harm to the University of Montana.

On this we agree. But often taking honorable measures makes one vulnerable to costly reprisals. That's what makes them so honorable.

 

[signedbewildered]

Not to get cheesy or anything but people keep referring to a single comment Pflugrad made. I likely would have made the same, or similar comment. How could you not if you felt you really knew and believed in the kid? Professionalism I guess? Sometimes it's just hard to bite your tongue, especially when you know your quote will be used by Gwen. Oh, the cheesy part....."I'd rather be hated for who I am...." You know how the rest of that goes.

 

[stubbins]

Very famous quote -- often attributed to Irish political philosopher Edmund Burke, but probably a paraphrase:

This ain't good versus evil. And if it was, a good man spoke out and still lost to evil.

The "choices" of Royce Engstrom are what have caused unprecedented economic damage to the University of Montana. If there is an economic argument to be made regarding integrity, or the lack of it, there it is.

So if the Griz win the National Championship this year or next or in 5 years, do you think that will help? Do you think anyone will give a rats ass about O'Day or Pflugrad if they win it all this year? In fact if the Griz do win, do you think it could be said that it was the correct decision to get rid of them both? Maybe it was just Engstrom using what he thought with a decision of integrity in firing them both and maybe in the long run he was actually right.

You're a fucking tool. The Griz could win 22 nc's in a row and he still made the wrong decision...