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Pflu: "...team knows the president made a mistake"

PlayerRep said:
Griznationalist said:
PlayerRep said:
"He envisioned his Grizzlies winning a national championship. If not in 2012, then surely in 2013."

“Did he [Engstrom] do the right thing? Obviously I don’t think so. As much correspondence as I have with that football team, I know to this day they don’t think so. They think he made a big mistake. You know that’s what keeps me going, is knowing that team knows the president made a mistake. That’s what keeps me fired up every day.”

“I saw him do things that I thought Dave Dickenson did,” the coach said, referring to Montana’s most beloved QB, who played in the 1990s. “I thought this guy can win a national championship. I’m proud of what he has done and overcome. I’m proud to be associated with him."

“And obviously I’ve always supported him,” he added, referring to a 2012 comment he made after Johnson was accused of a crime for which he was found not guilty. “ ... Part of coaching is to develop our players on and off the field, not just to dismiss them. We can’t just recruit a guy and then if a couple things come up, well are we just going to get rid of every player if there’s a blemish along the way? I think that’s a coach’s job to develop, not dismiss.”

“Whether it’s a friend, Quarterback Club member, a faculty member at the University of Montana, a business owner downtown, someone all the way across the state, they’ve all said, ‘Coach, don’t ever forget, this is your football team.’ When I hear that over and over, sure it brings back some tremendous memories.”

"Many of the current Griz were recruited by the coach and his staff, including quarterback Jordan Johnson and wide receiver Ellis Henderson."

http://missoulian.com/sports/college/montana/football/pflugrad-left-part-of-his-heart-at-montana/article_9633c734-4da8-11e3-944e-0019bb2963f4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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"Concluding an 18-month investigation into the UM football program on Friday, the NCAA found that former head coach Robin Pflugrad failed to monitor the football program, allowing boosters to provide extra benefits, including bail money and legal representation, to players."

"The investigation also found the football team had exceeded its coaching limits and that two former players, cornerback Trumaine Johnson and backup quarterback Gerald Kemp, competed while ineligible."

"The NCAA handed down sanctions against the UM football program, along with separate penalties to Pflugrad, who now coaches at Weber State."
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Kemp/Tru competed while ineligible only because the mom put up $320 for a week, and the ncaa decided, contrary to MT legal practice, that not charging for the initial aspects of evaluating and setting up a contingency fee civil case was providing free legal fees and an extra benefit. Total BS.
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This is what confuses me to this day. Who is the NCAA to determine how a law firm charges fees? And how did the NCAA determine that such a service would not have been provided to a student who was not an athlete? I guess I'm not up to speed.
 
I'm going to preface my comments with this: Robin is a good friend of mine. He and his wife have been to our house more than once for dinner.

And I've fired people for far less.

Look, it wasn't the JJ situation that got Robin fired. There was a period where it was unusual to wake up and NOT have bad news about the FB team. DUIs. Underage drinking, accidents in which alcohol may have been a factor. etc.

I asked my senior mgmt team this question recently: you have a team of 100 employees. Three times in the past 12 months one of your employees does something negative that ends up on the front page of the paper (legitimately or not). What happens?

I have a team of 11 managers. All 11 said -- more or less -- "I'm looking for a new job".

Let's be honest. What happened w Robin wasn't surprising. It WAS unfortunate. But it was also real world.

Right? Wrong? I'll leave that discussion to those more passionate than me on the issue. But what happened was certainly not out of pattern.



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EverettGriz said:
I'm going to preface my comments with this: Robin is a good friend of mine. He and his wife have been to our house more than once for dinner.

And I've fired people for far less.

Look, it wasn't the JJ situation that got Robin fired. There was a period where it was unusual to wake up and NOT have bad news about the FB team. DUIs. Underage drinking, accidents in which alcohol may have been a factor. etc.

I asked my senior mgmt team this question recently: you have a team of 100 employees. Three times in the past 12 months one of your employees does something negative that ends up on the front page of the paper (legitimately or not). What happens?

I have a team of 11 managers. All 11 said -- more or less -- "I'm looking for a new job".

Let's be honest. What happened w Robin wasn't surprising. It WAS unfortunate. But it was also real world.

Right? Wrong? I'll leave that discussion to those more passionate than me on the issue. But what happened was certainly not out of pattern.



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I respect that you are objective when you have a solid reason not to be but when those 100 "employees" are 18 to 22 years old AND you didn't hire the majority of them, as your boss I would not fire you. I would expect you to do whatever was in your power to improve the situation in the short and long terms. Managers are not demigods with super-human powers. Yes you can fire them at will but you will be losing out on what could be very talented and experienced leadership because your expectations are unrealistic. I have been managing for 30+ years and the president of my own company. Unless there are significant facts yet to be known, I can't imagine dismissing someone in RP's situation.
 
I respect both Everett's and Grisly Fan's perspectives. What they illustrate is that two reasonable people can come to different conclusions based on roughly the same set of facts and circumstances.

In that situation, the President of the university has to make the call. I don't think there is any way on God's green earth that the Board of Regents would want to wade into the water and substitute their discretion for that of the President, even if they individually might have made different decisions.

So you're welcome to chant "fire Engstrom" at the top of your lungs, but I hope you aren't disappointed when that does not happen. Sure, he may find another job, but he won't be fired.
 
EverettGriz said:
I'm going to preface my comments with this: Robin is a good friend of mine. He and his wife have been to our house more than once for dinner.

And I've fired people for far less.

Look, it wasn't the JJ situation that got Robin fired. There was a period where it was unusual to wake up and NOT have bad news about the FB team. DUIs. Underage drinking, accidents in which alcohol may have been a factor. etc.

I asked my senior mgmt team this question recently: you have a team of 100 employees. Three times in the past 12 months one of your employees does something negative that ends up on the front page of the paper (legitimately or not). What happens?

I have a team of 11 managers. All 11 said -- more or less -- "I'm looking for a new job".

Let's be honest. What happened w Robin wasn't surprising. It WAS unfortunate. But it was also real world.

Right? Wrong? I'll leave that discussion to those more passionate than me on the issue. But what happened was certainly not out of pattern.



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Sorry, but saying that the JJ situation did not get Pflugrad fired is flat out STUPID!

Engstrom publically praised the coaching job Pflugrad was doing on Tuesday, and then he fired Pflugrad without specifying a reason two days later on Thursday. What happened in- between?

Pflugrad publically spoke out about JJ’s good character even though JJ had been accused of rape, and said JJ would be allowed to practice with the team. It is obvious that Engstrom did not like Pflugrad’s support for JJ, even if Pflu knew JJ much better than Engstrom.

Engstrom is an arrogant megalomaniac who could not accept a University staff member supporting JJ.

Also, I have followed UM football for almost 50 years, and football players have gotten in trouble from time to time during that entire period (-as well as many other students). Young 18-22 year old football players like to have fun, and sometimes are not easy to control. Managing 18-22 year olds is different than managing workers generally aged 25-65 employed at a private company. You would think a senior company manager would understand this.

Also most of the football players that had legal issues during Pflugrad’s short tenure as head coach were Hauck recruits. I think Pflugrad tried harder to reduce football player partying and drinking and to manage player behavior problems than did Hauck.

A good administrator, which Engstrom is not, would have discussed his concerns with Pflugrad and given him an opportunity to better control and manage player behavior, IF THAT HAD BEEN ENGSTROM’S CONCERN, rather than firing him without explanation!! Engstrom’s action was a total SCHOCK to everyone. It was piss poor management!

In reality Engstrom is a misguided megalomaniac who could not stomach Pflugrad’s support for JJ. I think Engstrom also wanted to deflect attention away from Engstrom’s own failures and incompetence (i.e., letting a foreign student rapist escape punishment) by focusing attention on football player behavior and making Pflugrad the scapegoat for such problems at the University. Engstrom should be ashamed of himself.

Wake up EverettGriz!


And to AllWeatherFan,
I know the Board of Regents will not fire Engstrom (although they should). The Regents are part of the problem, so certainly you would not expect a solution to arise from them.

All I can say is that it is unfortunate that the University of Montana is mired with poor, poor, management at multiple levels.
 
What many Engstrom haters just can't seem to grasp is the position Pflugrad and O'Day put the University in when they openly supported JJ. I will preface this by saying I really like Robin and Jim, and I am sorry that they were let go, but they really have no one to blame but themselves.

When the allegations came out against JJ, they should have shut their mouths, and said we will reserve comment until the legal system has played itself out. If JJ, god forbid, was convicted they would then have been seen as supporting a rapist, not the best PR move for high level officials of any University. At the time of their firing no one really knew how the case would have resolved. He was suspended anyway, so what's the difference. It wasn't their call. Similar to the military, or the corporate world, sometimes you just have to follow the leader and accept their position whether you agree or not. Privately, they could have supported JJ, but publicly they had to see the big picture and understand that the situation was about more than blindly supporting one of their players. Neither one understood that, and thus the President literally had no choice but to fire them both. A good leader not only knows what to say, he also knows when to say it. Sadly, neither Robin nor Jim knew better than to hold their public support and comments. There were more than just supporters of the athletic program that the University had to be concerned about, the potential student victim, women's groups, etc.

I personally believe that the fact that neither O'Day or Pflugrad had ever been an AD or a Head Coach, ie a lack of experience in dealing with tough big decisions led to their ultimate demise. I do feel bad for both men, because I believe they are both good men and in their hearts they thought they were doing the right thing. Also, I hate that they both lost jobs that they both loved and they truly bled maroon. I am aware that this had an impact on many people, specifically Jim, Robin and their families. In part they were victims of circumstance and a very difficult situation. I hope they both find great success in the future.
 
ALPHAGRIZ1 said:
Dont tell Armchairqbabe that Royce is attacking children......its hormones are all hormoany and RE has enough on his plate.


:coffee:
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Gringos, the cucaracha/pretend mayor/fake dmontana puffer is back? Is a sad day for community of fans of griz.
More Patron amigos.


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wbtfg said:
Good article, with very honest quotes by pflugrad. Thanks for posting.

Somewhat off topic question....is there a President's sky box at Wa/Griz? If yes, is Engstrom generally at the games hosting potential donors and distinguished alumni?
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Si senor. Mi homosexual brother in law who is professor at UM mant times attends as have I. Uncomfortable muchas for me.


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Gametime, I couldn’t disagree with you more.

Good managers/leaders prioritize truth, integrity, justice. Those are principles that Pflugrad and O’Day displayed in spades by standing up for JJ, when knowing and understanding JJ’s character and innocence they openly supported him when he was faced with false rape accusations.

On the other hand bureaucrats and petty administrators prioritize political correctness over truth, integrity and justice. You are saying that Pflugrad and O’Day should have kept their mouths shut even though they knew JJ was falsely accused and innocent and was being railroaded by the politically correct crowd.

I have nothing but admiration and respect for Pflugrad and O’Day by speaking up and fighting for truth and justice for JJ. They both evidenced great character and integrity. Engstrom and the University did not.

I have nothing but contempt for the politically correct crowd, and those who advocate silence and timidity and hiding when faced with injustice.
 
EverettGriz said:
I asked my senior mgmt team this question recently: you have a team of 100 employees. Three times in the past 12 months one of your employees does something negative that ends up on the front page of the paper (legitimately or not). What happens?

I have a team of 11 managers. All 11 said -- more or less -- "I'm looking for a new job".


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Senor everett,
Muchos happiness senor robin and you are bien amigos.

But telling this community of asking your senior management team a question that has no bearing on them other than make them feel threatened about their own job security is pompous on your part to post and male cow $hit to post. Poquito senor you are. Revelance not there.

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Hey Alpha is back! Anyway what if Pflu does his work at Weber. Pulls them out of the depths, then a couple years done the line when MD retires. (Going out on top) we take Pflu back for another career? Could happen. RE might have moved on by then too.
 
GrizRanger said:
Gametime, I couldn’t disagree with you more.

Good managers/leaders prioritize truth, integrity, justice. Those are principles that Pflugrad and O’Day displayed in spades by standing up for JJ, when knowing and understanding JJ’s character and innocence they openly supported him when he was faced with false rape accusations.

On the other hand bureaucrats and petty administrators prioritize political correctness over truth, integrity and justice. You are saying that Pflugrad and O’Day should have kept their mouths shut even though they knew JJ was falsely accused and innocent and was being railroaded by the politically correct crowd.

I have nothing but admiration and respect for Pflugrad and O’Day by speaking up and fighting for truth and justice for JJ. They both evidenced great character and integrity. Engstrom and the University did not.

I have nothing but contempt for the politically correct crowd, and those who advocate silence and timidity and hiding when faced with injustice.
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Agreed if Rolls wanted jj sacked without due process, that's just wrong. I think it's a very real possibility, he needed to CHA after the Saudi debacle and it's never come out how big of a cluster that really was. Then he accepts an agenda from DOJ that clearly institutionally denies due process as several attorney types have already pointed out. They tried this pc bull 20 years ago and courts eventually tossed it. It will get tossed again.

That said gametime is correct in that Pflu should not have made any statement about jj's situation, like he pointed out no comment was appropriate in this case.

I wasn't there when this stuff went down,but Rolls is the product of a PC university culture so it's pretty hard not to be skeptical.
 
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