Montana vs Out of State Ratio for Success

[CDAGRIZ]

I was wondering when this yearly debate would rear its head.

However, its usually the kitties crowing about winning the instate battle... and yet get their a$$e$ kicked later in the year.

#1- I hope the Griz get the best 3-5 players each year from Montana.
#2- The level of football is NOT the same as schools in other states
#3- Facilities/ weight rooms are woeful in Montana compared to other states
#4- Most players from other states go to several summer camps and get better against better comp
#5- In some states (Texas for example), The students have athletics period every day of EVERY SEMESTER!
#6- Numbers... and when you only have what, 800 seniors that play football in Montana and what 30 that are worth looking at... the odds are stacked against them.
#7- FILM, FILM, FILM... Most Montana coaches don't help in any way the recruiting of their athletes.

Look, I love seeing the MM, Dickenson's etc have huge success, but they are BY FAR the exception not the example. Just take a look each year at the number of Montana players that walk-on or sign and are gone by the end of the first year. Without looking its around 60%. 80% by year two.

Seriously ask yourself this question. If the kats had 90 Montana players and the Griz had 5, yet the Griz spanked the Bobcats in October, would you really care about where they came from?

BTW... If you are interested in teams with a bunch of Montana players, the frontier conference is always looking for new fans!

Not every area is like Texas and bleeds football.

Also, most Montana high schools that I know have athletic classes also (or physical condition, weight lifting, training, whatever you want to call it...)

.

You say most Montana schools have athletic classes please name them... Because at least until 3 years ago it was against Montana state rules to do so...

Really? Goes to show you what kind of HS education I received. I was able to enroll in weightlifting for credit all four years. Then, in addition to PE as a soph, I had PE II and PE III the next two years. No wonder I can barely read!

 

[bearister]

As long as the Griz get the best of the Montana kids every year, I don't really care if they make up 5% or 50% of the roster. IMHO, Montana fans like it when Montana kids play, and we certainly have a good representation of MT kids starting: QB, 2WR, 2, sometimes 3 DL (when Peavey is healthy), would have been at C until Weyer got hurt. And a good number of top reserves as well: Bradley, Schye, Lebsock, Janssen, and a few I've probably forgotten. And don't forget, if there's a Griz on an NFL roster, good chance he's an instate kid (Anderson, Tripp, Coyle, Carpenter, Shillenger, ....). MSU wants all the top instate kids, but I doubt the UM coaches will let that happen.

 

[Paytonlives]

I was wondering when this yearly debate would rear its head.

However, its usually the kitties crowing about winning the instate battle... and yet get their a$$e$ kicked later in the year.

#1- I hope the Griz get the best 3-5 players each year from Montana.
#2- The level of football is NOT the same as schools in other states
#3- Facilities/ weight rooms are woeful in Montana compared to other states
#4- Most players from other states go to several summer camps and get better against better comp
#5- In some states (Texas for example), The students have athletics period every day of EVERY SEMESTER!
#6- Numbers... and when you only have what, 800 seniors that play football in Montana and what 30 that are worth looking at... the odds are stacked against them.
#7- FILM, FILM, FILM... Most Montana coaches don't help in any way the recruiting of their athletes.

Look, I love seeing the MM, Dickenson's etc have huge success, but they are BY FAR the exception not the example. Just take a look each year at the number of Montana players that walk-on or sign and are gone by the end of the first year. Without looking its around 60%. 80% by year two.

Seriously ask yourself this question. If the kats had 90 Montana players and the Griz had 5, yet the Griz spanked the Bobcats in October, would you really care about where they came from?

BTW... If you are interested in teams with a bunch of Montana players, the frontier conference is always looking for new fans!

Not every area is like Texas and bleeds football.

Also, most Montana high schools that I know have athletic classes also (or physical condition, weight lifting, training, whatever you want to call it...)

.

You say most Montana schools have athletic classes please name them... Because at least until 3 years ago it was against Montana state rules to do so...

Really? Goes to show you what kind of HS education I received. I was able to enroll in weightlifting for credit all four years. Then, in addition to PE as a soph, I had PE II and PE III the next two years. No wonder I can barely read!

The athletics classes in most states are run by the coaches and are spacific to each sport. IE if you are a football player not only do you lift weights and condition but you are working on that sport each and every day. IE if you play HS Softball you would be working on Pitching and Hitting each day along with conditioning and weigh training and different game situational plays. I doubt that is what you had at your Monana school.

 

[The_Real_Chief]

To Answer:

Once they are a GRIZ I dont give a flying fluck where they came from...

You and I may not care but a lot of our fanbase seems to make this SUCH A BIG DEAL every year and I want to hear from them what they expect every year in terms of amount of instate players.

I am 100% behind you on that though I don't care where they are from, winning matters more.

Do you know the entire fanbase?

I do not recall claiming that i know the entire fanbase? I was asking those members that push hard for this to state their opinion, because yes i've met many of our fans that want us to recruit more Montana kids. NOT ALL but many.

 

[NativeGriz]

As long as the Griz get the best of the Montana kids every year, I don't really care if they make up 5% or 50% of the roster. IMHO, Montana fans like it when Montana kids play, and we certainly have a good representation of MT kids starting: QB, 2WR, 2, sometimes 3 DL (when Peavey is healthy), would have been at C until Weyer got hurt. And a good number of top reserves as well: Bradley, Schye, Lebsock, Janssen, and a few I've probably forgotten. And don't forget, if there's a Griz on an NFL roster, good chance he's an instate kid (Anderson, Tripp, Coyle, Carpenter, Shillenger, ....). MSU wants all the top instate kids, but I doubt the UM coaches will let that happen.

I agree with you as well as few other posters that have made similar post with regard to MT kids making it to the NFL. A key point is the number of out of state recruits in the NFL is a fraction of the number of MT recruits, yet out of state kids make up a very large portion of the roster. Hauck was fabulous at finding and developing these MT players, but Hauck was also here at a good time - two recent NCs, 10+ win seasons almost every year, less politics and a more supporting president. Also, IMO showing a strong interest in recruiting MT kids might help offset uneducated statements from politicians with agendas.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Not every area is like Texas and bleeds football.

Also, most Montana high schools that I know have athletic classes also (or physical condition, weight lifting, training, whatever you want to call it...)

.

You say most Montana schools have athletic classes please name them... Because at least until 3 years ago it was against Montana state rules to do so...

Really? Goes to show you what kind of HS education I received. I was able to enroll in weightlifting for credit all four years. Then, in addition to PE as a soph, I had PE II and PE III the next two years. No wonder I can barely read!

The athletics classes in most states are run by the coaches and are spacific to each sport. IE if you are a football player not only do you lift weights and condition but you are working on that sport each and every day. IE if you play HS Softball you would be working on Pitching and Hitting each day along with conditioning and weigh training and different game situational plays. I doubt that is what you had at your Monana school.

It wasn't Montana. Idaho. It was close to the way you describe, but not sport-specific on weights.

 

[Sam A. Blitz]

I was wondering when this yearly debate would rear its head.

However, its usually the kitties crowing about winning the instate battle... and yet get their a$$e$ kicked later in the year.

#1- I hope the Griz get the best 3-5 players each year from Montana.
#2- The level of football is NOT the same as schools in other states
#3- Facilities/ weight rooms are woeful in Montana compared to other states
#4- Most players from other states go to several summer camps and get better against better comp
#5- In some states (Texas for example), The students have athletics period every day of EVERY SEMESTER!
#6- Numbers... and when you only have what, 800 seniors that play football in Montana and what 30 that are worth looking at... the odds are stacked against them.
#7- FILM, FILM, FILM... Most Montana coaches don't help in any way the recruiting of their athletes.

Look, I love seeing the MM, Dickenson's etc have huge success, but they are BY FAR the exception not the example. Just take a look each year at the number of Montana players that walk-on or sign and are gone by the end of the first year. Without looking its around 60%. 80% by year two.

Seriously ask yourself this question. If the kats had 90 Montana players and the Griz had 5, yet the Griz spanked the Bobcats in October, would you really care about where they came from?

BTW... If you are interested in teams with a bunch of Montana players, the frontier conference is always looking for new fans!

Not every area is like Texas and bleeds football.

Also, most Montana high schools that I know have athletic classes also (or physical condition, weight lifting, training, whatever you want to call it...)

Texas, California, Ohio, Penns., Florida, Arizona, Colorado, Oregon, Washington, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana...
The Best Montana team would not be in the top 30 of any of those states...

You say most Montana schools have athletic classes please name them... Because at least until 3 years ago it was against Montana state rules to do so...

The point is we are talking about a University, not a local High School...

And to think a team should jones about Montana kids is just plain stupid.

I don't agree with you on Oregon, Washington and Colorado. Bozeman and some of the better MT programs could compete in those states. I lived in Oregon and Colorado and watched a lot of HS football there. The football was very good amongst the top 5 or 6 programs, but after that it drops off rather significantly. I would agree with you on Texas, California, and the southern states.

I don't really need to name any of the Montana HS's that have athletic training classes, because many of them do and in a lot of cases they are instructed by a coach, often the football coach. I'm not going to compare that to Texas or top level football schools, because those programs have facilities that are as good or better than even NAIA programs.

I will say that Montana is sorely lacking in the quality of summer camps, clinics, and training combines. There is more opportunity in the larger urban areas for kids to hit 3 or 4 camps in a summer very easily. Not so easy for Montana kids. That hurts, but it also keeps a lot of those kids under the radar.

I'm not going to do the math, but I think that many recruits, regardless of where they are from don't pan out. I'm willing to guess the ratios are pretty similar on in-state and out-of-state scholarship players. Also, I don't think it is stupid to think that UM or MSU "jones" for the better Montana recruits. If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't be the emphasis placed on recruiting in-state that there has been. The nice thing is that you can get some good athletes on partial scholarships at a large discount and there have been many times that those players end up being very solid contributors (eg: Wags, Tripp, Crittenden, etc, etc, etc...).

I really like the mix of recruits that we came away with last year. I'm hopeful that we continue to get the best 4 or 6 prospect in Montana and get the best talent out of state that we possibly can. I also hope that we continue to aggressively recruit preferred walk-ons both in-state and out-of-state. I agree that the % of walk-ons that make it are lower, but those kids come in with a chip on their shoulder and on many occasions have developed into very important pieces.

 

[mtgrizrule]

I take a bit more pride in rooting for the Montana born kids. With that said, it does not matter to me who is from where when determining my love and passion for the GRIZ. I root for the GRIZ with everything I can every game. I root for the GRIZ, and honestly do not even think of where each player is from when cheering. All I care about is the school name on the jersey "Montana". To me, when a kid commits to the GRIZ, they are Montana to me.

 

[Sam A. Blitz]

I take a bit more pride in rooting for the Montana born kids. With that said, it does not matter to me who is from where when determining my love and passion for the GRIZ. I root for the GRIZ with everything I can every game. I root for the GRIZ, and honestly do not even think of where each player is from when cheering. All I care about is the school name on the jersey "Montana". To me, when a kid commits to the GRIZ, they are Montana to me.

I agree. Some of my favorite players have been from out-of-state and some of those continue to be very strong Griz supporters and have even made Montana their home. I guess what bothers me is when people ignore the fact that we've had a lot of success with in-state kids and say that they very seldom pan out, when that isn't the case at all. I'm fine with a larger percentage of our roster being from other states, but I would also hate to see us go completely away from recruiting the Chase Reynolds and Kroy Biermanns of the world.

 

[UMGriz75]

Really? Goes to show you what kind of HS education I received. I was able to enroll in weightlifting for credit all four years. Then, in addition to PE as a soph, I had PE II and PE III the next two years. No wonder I can barely read!

Montana allows students to petition out of High School PE classes if they can demonstrate participation in a substitute PE curriculum of equivalent or greater value and still receive their high school credits, especially if they are substituting with a recognized program at the University level. In that way, a University coach can get a promising high school kid into early University-level training and sport-specific workouts.

When I wore a younger man's clothes and was regularly coaching, I routinely petitioned for qualifying local high school students to participate in our University workout sessions.

Some schools are aware of it; others, not. It's not "well" known. I had to educate the "Vice Principal at Hellgate High in Charge of PE and Other Things" on this alternative, she had never heard of it, and in the way of bureaucrats who have never heard of things, was highly resistant. When I walked her through the regulations, she replied, "well, I'll be darned," and thereafter was an enthusiastic supporter of it and routinely approved any petition I sent over from the U.

My very first petition project, who came to me frustrated because his High School PE class that week had consisted of learning to push balloons across the gym floor with their noses [I am not making this up] became one of our most successful national level athletes, was last year appointed to be head coach of our US National Team to the World University Championships, and garnered one of our best US Collegiate records there in recent years.

What is interesting is that most Montana collegiate varsity coaches are unaware of this.

 

[AZGrizFan]

To Answer:

Once they are a GRIZ I dont give a flying fluck where they came from...

You and I may not care but a lot of our fanbase seems to make this SUCH A BIG DEAL every year and I want to hear from them what they expect every year in terms of amount of instate players.

I am 100% behind you on that though I don't care where they are from, winning matters more.

Do you know the entire fanbase?

I do not recall claiming that i know the entire fanbase? I was asking those members that push hard for this to state their opinion, because yes i've met many of our fans that want us to recruit more Montana kids. NOT ALL but many.

Well, when you make a statement like "a lot of our fanbase feels xxxxxxx", the implication is that you know the entire fanbase, and are educating us as to what the reigning belief is among said fanbase. I don't know a single person who feels that we should recruit "more Montana kids." What I DO hear is that we should get the best 5-6 every year. Or strive to.

 

[armonte]

In the 2015 class out of 27 total men 7 were from Montana, and 20 were immigrants who have became naturalized! Is this a GREAT STATE or what!!

 

[Sam A. Blitz]

Montana boys Dwan Edwards and Mike Person lined up across each other in the Panthers vs. Falcons game. Biermann also making plays.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Montana boys Dwan Edwards and Mike Person lined up across each other in the Panthers vs. Falcons game. Biermann also making plays.

That's awesome!

 

[The_Real_Chief]

You and I may not care but a lot of our fanbase seems to make this SUCH A BIG DEAL every year and I want to hear from them what they expect every year in terms of amount of instate players.

I am 100% behind you on that though I don't care where they are from, winning matters more.

Do you know the entire fanbase?

I do not recall claiming that i know the entire fanbase? I was asking those members that push hard for this to state their opinion, because yes i've met many of our fans that want us to recruit more Montana kids. NOT ALL but many.

Well, when you make a statement like "a lot of our fanbase feels xxxxxxx", the implication is that you know the entire fanbase, and are educating us as to what the reigning belief is among said fanbase. I don't know a single person who feels that we should recruit "more Montana kids." What I DO hear is that we should get the best 5-6 every year. Or strive to.

A lot doesn't mean entire. I like to think I know quite a bit about our fan base, i'm 3rd generation graduate of the U and was born and raised in Montana. But to each their own, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, i'm not getting into a pissing match on the internet.

 

[loyalgriz]

The Cats right now have more Montana kids than we do, fact. How is that working out? Bottom line, I'd prefer to see the kid from Montana if the talent is equal...if not, go elsewhere and get it. I do not want us to start bringing in ten average Montana kids every year to say we have more Montana kids than our rival. In my view, our friends in Bozeman have done that and it never works out. The key is to get the best three or four and compliment with some walkons that are lesser known but have the drive to be successful long term. That's a recipe that has worked in Missoula.

 

[AZDoc]

The Cats right now have more Montana kids than we do, fact. How is that working out? Bottom line, I'd prefer to see the kid from Montana if the talent is equal...if not, go elsewhere and get it. I do not want us to start bringing in ten average Montana kids every year to say we have more Montana kids than our rival. In my view, our friends in Bozeman have done that and it never works out. The key is to get the best three or four and compliment with some walkons that are lesser known but have the drive to be successful long term. That's a recipe that has worked in Missoula.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[AZGrizFan]

There's no magic ratio--needed or desired. The best players will play.

NDSU has 18 players from North Dakota (and 34 from Minnesota). Montana has 31 on it's roster from Montana. NDSU fans don't seem to mind.

And of those 31, many are well known names (as in--substantially contributed or started) in this year's successful season: Schmaing, Lebsock, Gustafson, Bradley, Weyer, Horner, Kidder, Thiebes, Schye, Larowe, Peevy, Roberts & Crittenden. That's 7 starters & 6 others seeing LOTS of playing time.

Sure Schmaing, Lebsock, Crittenden & Roberts are now gone, but expect them to be replaced by names Sandry, Ryan, Sims, Thomas, Daum, Bingham, Harris, etc. seeing extensive playing time if not starting. I think next year's team will have even MORE of a Montana flavor than this years....

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

I dont care if we start 22 Canadians if it means we win a natty....NDSU plays maybe 4 kids from ND.

 

[GrizzGriz]

To quote Lou Holtz, " We will get the heart and soul of our football team from the state of Minnesota. However, we will have to go elsewhere for the arms and legs."