-
Hi Guest, want to participate in the discussions, keep track of read/unread posts and more? Create your free account and increase the benefits of your eGriz.com experience today!
Lady Griz
- Thread starter citygriz
- Start date
Yo, Rep. I'm surprised, given your proximity to Montana athletics, and the breadth of your background, that you're not with me on this point. So let me amplify.
The Lady Griz program has been here for 45 years. In that time, three African-American players.
Let's look at another 40-year period in Montana basketball history, but on the Men's side. A list of African-American players who have donned a Griz basketball uniform would include Nase Rhinehart, Ray Howard, Zip Rhodes, Ray Lucien, John Lands, Marv Suttles, Ed Samelton, Wade Hughes, Norm Clark.
Note: This 40 year period--equivalent in time to the entire Lady Griz program--ended in 1970! That was 50 years ago!
So this list does not include Micheal Ray, Derrick Pope, Travis DeCuire, Will Cherry, Kareem Jamaar, Ahmaad Rorie, Michael Oguine and Sayeed Pridgett, or any of the players on our current roster: Eddie Egun, Freddy Brown, Naseem Gaskin, Michael Steadman, Kyle Owens, Darius Henderson or Derrick Carter-Hollinger.
Over in Bozeman, Tyler Hall just smashed the all-time Bobcat scoring record, set by Larry Chanay, another African-American athlete who played for the Cats in the late 50's.
And yet, there remain many on this board who steadfastly maintain: You cannot recruit African-American athletes to Montana! That's just not in conformity with either objective or historical reality.
As to Shannon. She is not just another coach passing through Montana. She's a legend here. Her husband is the track coach. She has two of her kids on the team. Her Mom graduated Helena High School, so she has great lineage. Plus I believe a coach should have a full four-year recruiting cycle to prove the themselves, to turn things around. Exhibit A: Tricia Binford at Montana State. Many wanted her fired at one time. That would have been a huge mistake.
And note: Binford has an African-American assistant, and this year had three African-American players on her team. She is building--and may already have built--what is now the premier program in the Big Sky Conference.
Finally, I put this entirely on Kent Haslam. He's the head of the athletic program. He's the one who evaluates athletic programs at Montana. He's the one who has seen the Lady Griz slip from pre-eminence to mediocrity, not just under Shannon, but in the final years of the Selvig regime. He's the one who has to say, "If we don't create a culture here that is welcoming of African-American athletes, the Lady Griz program will continue to be middle-of-the-Big Sky, at best. He's the one who has to insist that this happens, that changes are made in the program.
Maybe he's already doing it. If not, it's time he stepped up. A once-proud program is in the balance.
The Lady Griz program has been here for 45 years. In that time, three African-American players.
Let's look at another 40-year period in Montana basketball history, but on the Men's side. A list of African-American players who have donned a Griz basketball uniform would include Nase Rhinehart, Ray Howard, Zip Rhodes, Ray Lucien, John Lands, Marv Suttles, Ed Samelton, Wade Hughes, Norm Clark.
Note: This 40 year period--equivalent in time to the entire Lady Griz program--ended in 1970! That was 50 years ago!
So this list does not include Micheal Ray, Derrick Pope, Travis DeCuire, Will Cherry, Kareem Jamaar, Ahmaad Rorie, Michael Oguine and Sayeed Pridgett, or any of the players on our current roster: Eddie Egun, Freddy Brown, Naseem Gaskin, Michael Steadman, Kyle Owens, Darius Henderson or Derrick Carter-Hollinger.
Over in Bozeman, Tyler Hall just smashed the all-time Bobcat scoring record, set by Larry Chanay, another African-American athlete who played for the Cats in the late 50's.
And yet, there remain many on this board who steadfastly maintain: You cannot recruit African-American athletes to Montana! That's just not in conformity with either objective or historical reality.
As to Shannon. She is not just another coach passing through Montana. She's a legend here. Her husband is the track coach. She has two of her kids on the team. Her Mom graduated Helena High School, so she has great lineage. Plus I believe a coach should have a full four-year recruiting cycle to prove the themselves, to turn things around. Exhibit A: Tricia Binford at Montana State. Many wanted her fired at one time. That would have been a huge mistake.
And note: Binford has an African-American assistant, and this year had three African-American players on her team. She is building--and may already have built--what is now the premier program in the Big Sky Conference.
Finally, I put this entirely on Kent Haslam. He's the head of the athletic program. He's the one who evaluates athletic programs at Montana. He's the one who has seen the Lady Griz slip from pre-eminence to mediocrity, not just under Shannon, but in the final years of the Selvig regime. He's the one who has to say, "If we don't create a culture here that is welcoming of African-American athletes, the Lady Griz program will continue to be middle-of-the-Big Sky, at best. He's the one who has to insist that this happens, that changes are made in the program.
Maybe he's already doing it. If not, it's time he stepped up. A once-proud program is in the balance.
Haslam has a tough choice coming up. I just don't know what you can take from the last 4 years of this team and think that they're headed in the right direction or that things will get better. Trounced by the cats all the time, losing the first game, sometimes even as the favorite in the conference tourney every year, mass departures annually...
Shannon is Montana royalty, and her family is heavily injected into this school, athletics, and its identity. Her daughters are on the team, her husband is having a very successful run as the track and field coach. We talked about this on the GFP last night, maybe there's a turnaround in sight - it happened for Wayne Tinkle - it could maybe happen for her too. I'm just having a really hard time seeing it right now.
Shannon is Montana royalty, and her family is heavily injected into this school, athletics, and its identity. Her daughters are on the team, her husband is having a very successful run as the track and field coach. We talked about this on the GFP last night, maybe there's a turnaround in sight - it happened for Wayne Tinkle - it could maybe happen for her too. I'm just having a really hard time seeing it right now.
citay said:
Good post. I really don't have a good view on the subject. Don't have enough info. As I said, I think it's hard to recruit black WOMEN to Montana. We will see how MSU does. As for Shannon, I thought what you had said on wins/losses would indicate that she should be replaced, even though I know you don't think that.
My info on the women's program didn't get much updating after the early part of the season. I went to some games, but really didn't talk to many people who I thought were in the know.
I defer to Haslam on whether she stays or goes. My concern is the prior and probably ongoing problems involving the coach and certain (former) players and possibly that impact on recruiting. In my view, too many people don't like her, and haven't for some time. This includes some players who played with her, and some who have been very close to the program, think coaches. Haslam is in the best position to evaluate that. In my view, the only reason she is still here is because she was a Griz great. Anyone else would have been gone.
The season turned out better, perhaps much better, than I expected, after seeing the team play early, hearing some stuff, and a departure. To be fair, when I saw an early scrimmage, I thought the team had good potential, but then they faded in early games.
The LG turned into a pretty good team, and had some success. Several players developed well. Hats off to them. The first round loss was very disappointing. I thought they would win. Didn't follow the game, so don't know what went wrong.
To me, at least one win at the tourney, combined with the season they had, would have earned a renewal, unless the underlying problems are too great. Another one year renewal? Multi-year? Haslam has to believe the program is going in the right direction, and will likely improve next season, is he retains. He's probably looking for my advice now. Ha.
Happygriz1
Active member
ThinkingGriz said:
This is more than a lady Griz issue, look at the numbers for all women’s athletics. There is a major lacking of African American female athletes at the university. Other teams our doing slightly better than the lady Griz but ultimately the numbers are low around the department. This is something that needs to be addressed, starting the lady Griz and there 3 black alum in the history of the program.
go96griz said:
This sucks. I emailed Haslam directly to ask if a climate survey or any other steps have taken place within that program. Something is very, very wrong I’m that locker room and it’s painfully obvious to all. Why is nothing being done? My gut is Shannon got an extension and that’s why Gabi is walking.
PlayerRep said:
Montana can recruit black women to Missoula to the Tennis and Volleyball teams, but not for Basketball?
ThinkingGriz
Well-known member
Losing good players has become the hallmark of the Shannon era. African American players or not you have to be able to retain players. Don't be surprised if more go. Gabi was one of the better team players. Huge loss! Don't forget Sammy mid season. Could have been our best three point weapons next year. Recruit all the African Americans you want. But they won't stay either with Shannon here.
Mostly surprised Money Ball hasn't jumped on this one.
Mostly surprised Money Ball hasn't jumped on this one.
PlayerRep said:
Could be wrong. Just a gut feeling. I can’t think of any other reason, for her senior year, why she would bounce though. Seems to line up.
PlayerRep said:
Yes, thanks for catching my omission. Fixed it. The women's tennis team has had 2 Texas sisters who are black in recent years. The volleyball team has had a least one team member who is black for a few years running.
I just looked at Sophia Stiles posting on GoGriz.com. She is home in Malta. Her shoulder surgery with Dr. Andrews in Florida has been cancelled. He cancelled all his upcoming procedures. I'm guessing that by the time Sophia eventually has her surgery and recovers, her availability for next season might be in question.
TrueGriz
Well-known member
Selvig has stated that he recruited players that he felt comfortable with. Could be that he isn't generally comfortable with black women, except that He did allow 3 black players that came due to either referral by another coach or to allow the mens basketball team to recruit a player. Could it be that Shannon inherited that recruiting philosophy?
TrueGriz said:
Of the three black women who've played for the Lady Griz, the first was on the same team as Shannon, when the Lady Griz were making some national noise. I've forgotten her name, but she was referred by a coach in Southern California. Another was Anthony Johnson's wife, who came as part of a package deal--a deal set up by Wayne Tinkle. The third player I believe was actually recruited by us. (Wish I were better on names.)
Sorry history, really.
