Just heard

[Blgs Griz Fan]

Which is it? Wilson stole the id or Minter gave him the id? If he gave him the id so that he can get into the bar then Minter should be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor at the least. Does that violate team rules enough to cause a dismissal? That kind of smudges Minter's reputation of being a good guy to Bozeman area kids. Enough about that though.
The point is Ash's crew is not composed entirely of angels as many cats fans would have it. I suspect it is a matter of time before there is a major issue with an Ash angel that sets the cat's squecky clean image upside down and Ash will not handle it very well. I do feel there are many great and decent student athletes on the cat football squad but it only takes one or two to act inappropriately to tarnish the program as the Griz have experienced.
Oh crap, a cat plays the rape card. Rape should not be tolerated and has been dealt with at the U but assault is also a violent crime.

 

[PTGrizzly]

This is dumb. Can you idiots stay on topic please?

 

[SACCAT66]

Which is it? Wilson stole the id or Minter gave him the id? If he gave him the id so that he can get into the bar then Minter should be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor at the least. Does that violate team rules enough to cause a dismissal? That kind of smudges Minter's reputation of being a good guy to Bozeman area kids. Enough about that though.
The point is Ash's crew is not composed entirely of angels as many cats fans would have it. I suspect it is a matter of time before there is a major issue with an Ash angel that sets the cat's squecky clean image upside down and Ash will not handle it very well. I do feel there are many great and decent student athletes on the cat football squad but it only takes one or two to act inappropriately to tarnish the program as the Griz hav experienced.
Oh crap a cat plays the rape card. Rape should not be tolerated and has been dealt with at the U but assault is also a violent crime.

And the two that were involved in the Assault were kicked off the team in about one day...

 

[Cat Pride]

Which is it? Wilson stole the id or Minter gave him the id? If he gave him the id so that he can get into the bar then Minter should be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor at the least. Does that violate team rules enough to cause a dismissal? That kind of smudges Minter's reputation of being a good guy to Bozeman area kids. Enough about that though.
The point is Ash's crew is not composed entirely of angels as many cats fans would have it. I suspect it is a matter of time before there is a major issue with an Ash angel that sets the cat's squecky clean image upside down and Ash will not handle it very well. I do feel there are many great and decent student athletes on the cat football squad but it only takes one or two to act inappropriately to tarnish the program as the Griz have experienced.
Oh crap, a cat plays the rape card. Rape should not be tolerated and has been dealt with at the U but assault is also a violent crime.

Again, nobody is saying they are all angels... we are saying that our coaches/administration actually holds their players to standards and disciplines them.

Sounds to me like you are actually hoping the Cats find trouble to mar their name... that is a helluva perspective to have on things. You are one classy individual my friend :roll:

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

It seems to me that much the same happened to Donaldson. Enough of this but remember the clock is ticking before one of the angels breaks a wing or loses his halo. You can count on it.
I would never hope a young athlete finds trouble but I think there will always be one or two individuals that find trouble regardless. I remember my college days all too well. Again, the point is Ash does not have an entire team incapable of getting into trouble and it will happen again in time.

 

[doebrmn]

It appears you keep missing the point or simply don't want to acknowledge facts. No one is saying that Cat players are all angels and never get into trouble. As stated many time, kids are going to be kids and that is acceptable. What is not acceptable is the grown-ups acting like kids. The points being made just so you are clear:

(1) Ash has made an effort to recruit character and as a result, MSU has had less off-field issues during his tenor. That doesn't mean he hasn't been willing to give kids a second chance. But when he does he makes it clear up front there is zero tolerence and they are on a short leash.

(2) When off-field issues arise they are dealt with immediately. Ash does not employ the "we will wait until the law runs its course" system that has led UM to where it is now. When a kid that is recruited is an A student but has demonstrated poor judgment he is given a second chance but when he makes another bad decision, he doesn't even make it to the practice field, he is gone. When a player that has been given a second chance makes a bad decision (deciding to engage in a fight even when it is self-defense .. he could have walked away), he is gone. Another player makes a bad decision allowing his roomate to use his ID he his punished (I think we will still likely see that player suspended for the first game). This is a grown-up acting like a grown-up. Again, most kids make mistake, that is forgivable. It is not forgiveable when grown-ups put winning ahead of make decisions that will help these kids learn from their mistakes.

To summarize, MSU is not full of angels, but the program is led by someone that puts discipline ahead of winning and, as a result, MSU has had far less off-field incidences over the last five years than UM. It has also had more success over the last five years than the previous 20 years. This demonstrates that running a discipline program works. That is not to say running a "sweep it under the rug" system does not also work, but has been demonstrated time and time again, that system catches up with you and eventually can lead to the point where someone other than the School decides the fate of a program. That is not a good place to be. As for whether UM is in that place, no one knows. But what is known is that at the present time, MSU is not waiting for the NCAA to make a decision that may have adverse consequences.

Discuss...................

 

[poorgriz]

My point was, if Ashes angels are so pure and clean then why was a b ball player beat senseless by a f ball player and tennis players while St. Ash was coach? It seems certain cat fans havee very short memories.

Like I said... it is gonna happen, kids are going to do dumb things and make mistakes. MSU just happens to have a much lower likelihood of these kids that are prone to making these mistakes. And, as others have pointed out, when they do make them... they're gone. No questions asked. UM has fostered a "Win at all costs", "Untouchable" environment surround the the football program for years, and it has finally caught up and bit you in the ass.

Before you all pile on... yes I know we've had our share of major problems and for awhile it does appear that we had a top-down "Do what it takes to get back on top" attitude... and it did bite us in the ass, hard.

 

[jagur1]

My point was, if Ashes angels are so pure and clean then why was a b ball player beat senseless by a f ball player and tennis players while St. Ash was coach? It seems certain cat fans havee very short memories.

Like I said... it is gonna happen, kids are going to do dumb things and make mistakes. MSU just happens to have a much lower likelihood of these kids that are prone to making these mistakes. And, as others have pointed out, when they do make them... they're gone. No questions asked. UM has fostered a "Win at all costs", "Untouchable" environment surround the the football program for years, and it has finally caught up and bit you in the ass.

Before you all pile on... yes I know we've had our share of major problems and it did bite us in the ass as well.

You're wrong about Msla and it's environment. You're just bitter because you cant compete and this helps you justify your complex inregards to the Griz. Dude it's FCS football with a 14 million dollar budget and a 100K coach. Lots and lots of good hard working kids going to school doing the right thing. The ones who get into trouble get found out and punished. It's not SEC football for god sakes.

 

[Grizaholic16]

Which is it? Wilson stole the id or Minter gave him the id? If he gave him the id so that he can get into the bar then Minter should be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor at the least. Does that violate team rules enough to cause a dismissal? That kind of smudges Minter's reputation of being a good guy to Bozeman area kids. Enough about that though.
The point is Ash's crew is not composed entirely of angels as many cats fans would have it. I suspect it is a matter of time before there is a major issue with an Ash angel that sets the cat's squecky clean image upside down and Ash will not handle it very well. I do feel there are many great and decent student athletes on the cat football squad but it only takes one or two to act inappropriately to tarnish the program as the Griz have experienced.
Oh crap, a cat plays the rape card. Rape should not be tolerated and has been dealt with at the U but assault is also a violent crime.

Again, nobody is saying they are all angels... we are saying that our coaches/administration actually holds their players to standards and disciplines them.

Sounds to me like you are actually hoping the Cats find trouble to mar their name... that is a helluva perspective to have on things. You are one classy individual my friend :roll:

So what you are saying is that you are jumping to conclusions and saying we're already guilty of the rape cover up? Or are you saying that the thug actions of other football players weren't caught and punished? Because none of those cases are true. Our players are punished just as much as yours. And although you may not believe so, check your bias at the front door.

 

[WILD_CAT]

I know what you're trying to say... and yes these are college age kids and they will make mistakes. However, I will also state my opinion that the players on the Montana State University Football team are less likely to get in trouble than any other school in the Big Sky, and probably 95% of all other college football teams out there. Rob Ash's philosophy of "High caliber person first, playing ability second", is by far his number one priority and that permeates all throughout the system.

Uh, no...In the end, they are all kids, and kids get in trouble no matter where they go, who recruited them, or whatever. Don't be so naive.

No, you're not getting my point. Rob Ash is one of if the most "Character First" mentality football coaches in the country. He and his recruiting staff do much more due diligence of players before bringing into the program, and have much higher standards than most other schools in terms of player conduct. Additionally, they stress the importance of character in practice, team meetings, in the community, etc. much more than most programs. Yes, kids will still make mistakes... but they'll make them a lot less at MSU than most other schools, due to the focus Ash puts on that.

Horse Poo! Just recently it was annouced that Barnett was transferring to MSU, after an issue with public intoxication and online social networking pictures of him going to make it rain at the strip club. I hope his halo can stay on. And while they never didn't play the Kali brothers were most certainly well vetted before both of them were offered scholarship. But then again I'm sure the rest of Ash's Angels would have been able to help them stay out of trouble if only they would have had the time.

This post will come back to haunt you. I know Ash has made a lot of positive changes and I will hand it to him in that he tends to deal with things when they go wrong quickly, but to suggest that MSU has higher standards or does more to check out their football player is a big pile of steaming horse poo! Also, sometimes you check a kid out who has no history of trouble and they find it once the apron strings are no longer attached.

I don't want any student, student/athlete to get into trouble, but if I made a statement like this I would keep my crow lubricate close by, I'm betting your going to need it. Every recruiter out there wants the best talent with the least amount of issues and just as Ash has shown he will deal with player issues quickly he has also shown he will look past some past behavior. Not saying the Cats are any worse then any of the other teams, but they just aren't any better.

We didn't say anything about higher standards of recruits/transfers. I for one believe in second chances. These are young kids don't you know? That being said they must be told that if they step out of line ONCE . they are gone. So in that case, yes coach Ash is definately up to higher standards. Believe me if Barnett gets in trouble he is GONE ... before he has even gone to see the judge.

That being said though now that the UM good ole boys club is starting to be torn down and actual player conduct rules are being rewritten I think both schools will be very similiar in DISCIPLINING their players for the near future.

 

[jagur1]

Uh, no...In the end, they are all kids, and kids get in trouble no matter where they go, who recruited them, or whatever. Don't be so naive.

No, you're not getting my point. Rob Ash is one of if the most "Character First" mentality football coaches in the country. He and his recruiting staff do much more due diligence of players before bringing into the program, and have much higher standards than most other schools in terms of player conduct. Additionally, they stress the importance of character in practice, team meetings, in the community, etc. much more than most programs. Yes, kids will still make mistakes... but they'll make them a lot less at MSU than most other schools, due to the focus Ash puts on that.

Horse Poo! Just recently it was annouced that Barnett was transferring to MSU, after an issue with public intoxication and online social networking pictures of him going to make it rain at the strip club. I hope his halo can stay on. And while they never didn't play the Kali brothers were most certainly well vetted before both of them were offered scholarship. But then again I'm sure the rest of Ash's Angels would have been able to help them stay out of trouble if only they would have had the time.

This post will come back to haunt you. I know Ash has made a lot of positive changes and I will hand it to him in that he tends to deal with things when they go wrong quickly, but to suggest that MSU has higher standards or does more to check out their football player is a big pile of steaming horse poo! Also, sometimes you check a kid out who has no history of trouble and they find it once the apron strings are no longer attached.

I don't want any student, student/athlete to get into trouble, but if I made a statement like this I would keep my crow lubricate close by, I'm betting your going to need it. Every recruiter out there wants the best talent with the least amount of issues and just as Ash has shown he will deal with player issues quickly he has also shown he will look past some past behavior. Not saying the Cats are any worse then any of the other teams, but they just aren't any better.

We didn't say anything about higher standards of recruits/transfers. I for one believe in second chances. These are young kids don't you know? That being said they must be told that if they step out of line ONCE . they are gone. So in that case, yes coach Ash is definately up to higher standards. Believe me if Barnett gets in trouble he is GONE ... before he has even gone to see the judge.

Now if he would only learn how to win the big game, you'd have the perfect coach. Couple more Griz beat downs and I won't be hearing the "higher standards" line anymore from you wonderful cat fans. I only wish your fans at the tailgate would hold themselves to Higher standards once in a awhile.

 

[kemajic]

Like I said... it is gonna happen, kids are going to do dumb things and make mistakes. MSU just happens to have a much lower likelihood of these kids that are prone to making these mistakes. And, as others have pointed out, when they do make them... they're gone. No questions asked. UM has fostered a "Win at all costs", "Untouchable" environment surround the the football program for years, and it has finally caught up and bit you in the ass.

Total BS. There is a long list of Griz players that have been shown the door for various violations in the past. PR has posted it. Gone. No questions asked. Gwen Florio just wasn't around then to turn them into news.

 

[doebrmn]

You are right and we stand corrected. UM has definitely dished out some serious discipline. Completely forgot about that 1 quarter suspension handed out to Kemp and Johnson. Clearly did the trick. Kemp woke right up and saw the errors of his way. Look forward to watching him play this year. Oh wait, forgot that may not happen. Really, you think UM has demonstrated a sound discipline policy with its "wait for the legal system to run its course." You really think taking that approach has not helped lead UM to where it is now. Get real, whether kids end up convicted of crimes does not change the fact that UM has fostered an environment of putting winning over discipline. I am not saying there is some big conspiracy by the coaches and administration, but it is clear that discipline has been lacking and as a result has created a PR nightmare for UM that may result in something worse.

 

[WILD_CAT]

Like I said... it is gonna happen, kids are going to do dumb things and make mistakes. MSU just happens to have a much lower likelihood of these kids that are prone to making these mistakes. And, as others have pointed out, when they do make them... they're gone. No questions asked. UM has fostered a "Win at all costs", "Untouchable" environment surround the the football program for years, and it has finally caught up and bit you in the ass.

Total BS. There is a long list of Griz players that have been shown the door for various violations in the past. PR has posted it. Gone. No questions asked. Gwen Florio just wasn't around then to turn them into news.

Were they starters?

 

[Bear Axed]

sanctimonious anyone?

 

[jagur1]

You are right and we stand corrected. UM has definitely dished out some serious discipline. Completely forgot about that 1 quarter suspension handed out to Kemp and Johnson. Clearly did the trick. Kemp woke right up and saw the errors of his way. Look forward to watching him play this year. Oh wait, forgot that may not happen. Really, you think UM has demonstrated a sound discipline policy with its "wait for the legal system to run its course." You really think taking that approach has not helped lead UM to where it is now. Get real, whether kids end up convicted of crimes does not change the fact that UM has fostered an environment of putting winning over discipline. I am not saying there is some big conspiracy by the coaches and administration, but it is clear that discipline has been lacking and as a result has created a PR nightmare for UM that may result in something worse.

What did you copy that off the FSU board in regards to Florida or from the Tech board in regards to the Bulldogs? Same shit's been said about everywinning program in this country since the 1920's. I'd like to review your discipline policy with your kids and see if you have fostered the correct environment.

 

[Born2BaGriz]

It appears you keep missing the point or simply don't want to acknowledge facts. No one is saying that Cat players are all angels and never get into trouble. As stated many time, kids are going be kids and that is acceptable. What is not acceptable is the grown-ups acting like kids. The points being made just so you are clear:

(1) Ash has made an effort to recruit character and as a result, MSU has had less off-field issues during his tenor.

(2) When off-field issues arise they are dealt with immediately. Ash does not employ the "we will wait until the law runs its course" system that has led UM to where it is now. When a kid that is recruited is an A student but has demonstrated poor judgment he is given a second chance but when he makes another bad decision, he doesn't even make it to the practice field, he is gone. When a player that has been given a second chance makes a bad decision (deciding to engage in a fight even when it is self-defense .. he could have walked away), he is gone. Another player makes a bad decision allowing his roomate to use his ID he his punished (I think we will still likely see that player suspended for the first game). This is a grown-up acting like a grown-up. Again, most kids make mistake, that is forgivable. It is not forgiveable when grown-ups put winning ahead of make decisions that will help these kids learn from their mistakes.

To summarize, MSU is not full of angels, but the program is led by someone that puts discipline ahead of winning and, as a result, MSU has had far less off-field incidences over the last five years than UM. It has also had more success over the last five years than the previous 20 years. This demonstrates that running a discipline program works. That is not to say running a "sweep it under the rug" system does not also work, but has been demonstrated time and time again, that system catches up with you and eventually can lead to the point where someone other than the School decides the fate of a program. That is not a good place to be. As for whether UM is in that place, no one knows. But what is known is that at the present time, MSU is not waiting for the NCAA to make a decision that may have adverse consequences.

Discuss...................

Please share with me, over the past five years, the off the field trangressions of both UM and MSU. Then give me a specific example of how the transgression of each was handled by the prospective teams.

Also, there is the implication that the Cats recruit student athletes of much higher moral fiber, when the truth is many times both schools are after the same recruit and the student/athlete may pick one school or the other for multiple reasons. Yet, I suggest you find one shred of evidence where Beau Donaldson( charged, kick off the team) and Jordan Johnson ( not charged, still on the team for now) had ANYTHING in their background to suggest they would not have fit the character requirements set forth by Ash. Or am forgetting that a certain lineman recruit out of Kalispell with a documented incident involving the herb was signed to a LOI along with older brother who was found naked and intoxicated in a unknown females house in Oregon. Only after the younger actually had another incident was his offer removed and shortly after his older brother had lost his love for the game did these young men not wear the colors of the Cats.

I wish every student/athlete would be able to comprehend the future and understand what an incredible time they are living when they are at either University and would understand how a stupid choice could have such long term ramifications, but the vast majority of them can't. The can't not because they aren't up the the character requirements of a coach, they can't because they are young men. Now obviously some mistakes are more understandable and other can't be justified at any point. But don't place post after post on here about how Ash has decided to only take player of higher character when it simply isn't true. He may not seek out unsavory players just because they are talented, but his past actions speak lounder the your words. Just recently a Texas player dropped down and will join the Cats that one could argue might not pass the smell test of "character". For his sake, I hope he has seen the errors of his ways in the past and goes on to become a productive person in society. And before you continue on with line, you need to talk with an actual player that will be honest with you. If you do, I think the hair on the back of your neck may stand up a bit.

Very few on here know what it is like to actually be one of the small percentage of people that can play Div. 1 athletics. In addition to some local fame, it is rare that anybody at that level doesn't have a higher then normal sense of confidence. Add the fact that for the most part, you are bigger, faster and stronger the almost anybody around and you get a higher then normal sense of invicibility. Hell, I remember after playing in my first game as a Griz, I showered, put on some nice clothes and made my way back to my dorm. I don't think my feet hit the ground and as far as I was concerned, every girl I passed wanted me to sire their children. I cherish my time as a Griz and I avoided any major stumbling blocks but we had those who didn't. I'll jump off this soap box by saying I hope both programs can avoid any incidents.

 

[PTGrizzly]

Once again, why are we discussing MSU here? Stop it.

 

[nzone]

What a line of bull!! Are you saying that for the past 20+years the University of Montana has been engaged in a lower level of decipline than any other FCS school? Wow how stinkin pathetic. Why not ask kids like Mariani, Anderson,Selle, Stohl, Dickinson, Reynolds, Dirt, Carpenter, and other very fine players who called Missoula home. I'm sure decipline was at a high level from Reed-Dennehy-Glen-Hauck-Phlugrad and now Delaney. Go ahead and pile on. Seriously why not kick em while there down. We owned the cats and most of the rest of the FCS because we had great players and some of the best coaching staffs around - not because of some cockamainy, idiotic story of "cover up." Every effing team has dumb asses who try and push the limits. One story of two guys getting into a scuffle with the cops and the whole damn program is a sham. To the cat fans and even some Griz fans who think our program is some way dirty need to look at a bigger picture. Graduation rates to community service to start with. We have a quality program which has done a lot more good than not so knock off the greater than thou shit!
By the way I sure hope you all are as good a parents and citizens as you purport to be because this shit all starts at home................ Good grief!! :evil:

 

[grizcountry420]

Honest Question??


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