Jim O'Day; vacating 2011 wins was wrong

[grizindabox]

 

[GrizPony]

Pflu is indeed owed an apology. But not from the University. He was let down by JOD. Gametime is right if JOD was as great as some believe, given the success of Montana's programs, He would have been snapped up in a minute. If nothing else by the conference or NCAA.

JOD is working hard to salvage his reputation and his future. He's a great guy but he is not a "manager" (that's what lack of institutional control is about) It was inevitable the ship would run aground. as much as I was not a Bobby fan, the fact is were he not the strong personality he was, it would have happened much sooner than it did. You can not run an athletic department on autopilot. This outcome sadly was predicted by many of us when JOD was hired.

He has been hired as a "consultant" which is a polite way of saying they are renting JOD to mine his contacts. That is at best a temporary position. I am hoping that when the lease is up on him, he will have enough water under the bridge, that someone somewhere in college athletics will be able to use his talents and personality.

Jim has been offered several jobs in the athletic realm, he has no desire to return to that at this time. FWIW. Pflugrad is a great guy, but no one who knows anything thinks that he ran a disciplined program. He simply did not. Ask the players, especially the ones that wanted to ride herd and were told they couldn't enforce it as "that isn't the way we do it anymore". This year, Tripp and Coyle and Kistler are being allowed to enforce discipline and I think most fans can feel how things have changed. More community service, etc... Can shit still go down? Yep. Several players tried to stop Murray from his stupid tirade but they couldn't and he is gone. At least other players were trying to minimize his idiocy.

 

[GrizPony]

BW-
You started this thread, is Jim gonna sue? Inquiring minds want to know.

Yes.

 

[Gaeilge1]

Someone please tell me exactly what the NCAA did for 18 months! Every infraction noted in their report was previously uncovered and admitted to by UM by the time the NCAA started their investigation. There was nothing new reported. They did not look into the rape allegations, allowing the DOJ to do that. They didn't even recommend a punishment! Royce did that after apparently consulting with some out of state pos attorney who told him what the penalty could conceivably be. The NCAA simply adopted what the University Administration proposed!

Other than possibly learning how to fly fish, I don't see where the NCAA did anything at all. RE, on the other hand did plenty, all bad. He was the kid who, when told by his father to go get something to beat him with, went out and cut down a tree, brought it back and said "Here ya go Dad! Beat the hell out of me! I deserve it."

Simply suggesting that we all move on and put this entire mess behind us is not going to happen until the root cause in Main Hall is behind us as well or at the very least until he steps up and actually fights for the University he leads regardless of whether he might win or lose. Do something besides capitulate.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Small point PR and just curious, how do you take a criminal case on a contingency?

Well, that's quite simple. If you steer your client wrong, you agree to do the time on behalf of your client, or sit in the electric chair, whatever the case might be. Oh, wait.

 

[tnt]

Jim has been offered several jobs in the athletic realm, he has no desire to return to that at this time. FWIW. Pflugrad is a great guy, but no one who knows anything thinks that he ran a disciplined program. He simply did not. Ask the players, especially the ones that wanted to ride herd and were told they couldn't enforce it as "that isn't the way we do it anymore". This year, Tripp and Coyle and Kistler are being allowed to enforce discipline and I think most fans can feel how things have changed. More community service, etc... Can shit still go down? Yep. Several players tried to stop Murray from his stupid tirade but they couldn't and he is gone. At least other players were trying to minimize his idiocy.

That's a good perspective, Yes it was an undisciplined program, but my understanding is JOD did little to change that. I know it will NEVER happen, but I truly believe there is a place for JOD at UM to use his considerable talents - personnel management (and hiring) not being among them. We have an environment now that can indeed get us to the top and keep us there.

 

[Griz2k]

BW-
You started this thread, is Jim gonna sue? Inquiring minds want to know.

Yes.

For what? Wasn't he paid through the end of his contract?

 

[GrizPony]

Jim has been offered several jobs in the athletic realm, he has no desire to return to that at this time. FWIW. Pflugrad is a great guy, but no one who knows anything thinks that he ran a disciplined program. He simply did not. Ask the players, especially the ones that wanted to ride herd and were told they couldn't enforce it as "that isn't the way we do it anymore". This year, Tripp and Coyle and Kistler are being allowed to enforce discipline and I think most fans can feel how things have changed. More community service, etc... Can shit still go down? Yep. Several players tried to stop Murray from his stupid tirade but they couldn't and he is gone. At least other players were trying to minimize his idiocy.

That's a good perspective, Yes it was an undisciplined program, but my understanding is JOD did little to change that. I know it will NEVER happen, but I truly believe there is a place for JOD at UM to use his considerable talents - personnel management (and hiring) not being among them. We have an environment now that can indeed get us to the top and keep us there.

I wish I shared your optimism about the environment at the U. The faculty are still pissed at football and that is before the low enrollment numbers for this semester come out. Retrenchment, which will come, will sour the mood more. Losing Jim cost the foundation millions too because he is well liked and well connected. He may have been too lax, but I think his coming litigation should enlighten a few people. I don't think RE has any understanding about how important that silly sport of football is to this university on many levels. Like most academics, he lacks overall vision and is consumed with pettiness and minutia regarding the program. He has no idea how important it is to not let championship trophies and records get erased. Many alumni and their families will never support UM because he didn't defend the 2011 record. Is that childish? Maybe so, but it is reality. The university, during his tenure, has lost so much financially that it can not be ignored. His actions have a huge ripple effect financially and I have yet to see that he comprehends that fact. He has crippled the U and it is impossible to not see how MSU is starting to step into the power vacuum he caused.

 

[PlayerRep]

BW-
You started this thread, is Jim gonna sue? Inquiring minds want to know.

Yes.

For what? Wasn't he paid through the end of his contract?

Perhaps for loss of the job, and damage to reputation and ability to get future jobs. A job is more than just getting paid. It is also the work and position part of the job. Don't know if he lost the ability to earn a bonus like Pflu did.

 

[tnt]

Didn't you know? The Westboro Baptist Church is on their way to Bozeman to "reveal the truth" about MSU.

In any event I was not referring to the U as a whole just the athletic department. RE is still under the misconception that eliminating Foley (one of the promises he made during the vetting) has cured many of the morale problems within the faculty. He has some support still within the Athletic Counsel, but darn little and its on hold elsewhere. He has managed to raise some big money out of state dierected towards "saving" the business school (stayed tuned for announcements) and believe it or not formed an alliance with an Australian Mining company opening new mines in West Africa for some environmental work that could pay off big. None the less in many of their minds with all the other distractions out of the way he is basically just starting his job. I don't think he will have a long probation.....

Alumini money (Big money) ultimatley comes for reasons well beyond supporting the old school. The vast majority of it comes from the promise of inside access, flesh pressing and stroking massive egos Why I don't doubt there are a number factors effecting it at present. It will be back. There is always new meat.

 

[Griz2k]

BW-
You started this thread, is Jim gonna sue? Inquiring minds want to know.

Yes.

For what? Wasn't he paid through the end of his contract?

Perhaps for loss of the job, and damage to reputation and ability to get future jobs. A job is more than just getting paid. It is also the work and position part of the job. Don't know if he lost the ability to earn a bonus like Pflu did.

Ya maybe. Personally though, I'd be surprised if a lawsuit comes of it.

 

[GrizPony]

Didn't you know? The Westboro Baptist Church is on their way to Bozeman to "reveal the truth" about MSU.

In any event I was not referring to the U as a whole just the athletic department. RE is still under the misconception that eliminating Foley (one of the promises he made during the vetting) has cured many of the morale problems within the faculty. He has some support still within the Athletic Counsel, but darn little and its on hold elsewhere. He has managed to raise some big money out of state dierected towards "saving" the business school (stayed tuned for announcements) and believe it or not formed an alliance with an Australian Mining company opening new mines in West Africa for some environmental work that could pay off big. None the less in many of their minds with all the other distractions out of the way he is basically just starting his job. I don't think he will have a long probation.....

Alumini money (Big money) ultimatley comes for reasons well beyond supporting the old school. The vast majority of it comes from the promise of inside access, flesh pressing and stroking massive egos Why I don't doubt there are a number factors effecting it at present. It will be back. There is always new meat.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, but a big issue is that there isn't anyone that thinks RE is "big flesh" to press. The Griz and O'Day used to be pretty big flesh. No one fills that role right now at the U.

 

[tnt]

That's exactly right. The Griz are poised to do it. JOD was still doing his old job and doing it well. Although it will never happen they need to build a new job for him with an appropriate title.... They did for a washed uppolitical hack (it never paid off Pat Williams and Jim Foley delived NOTHING to the U but grief....)

 

[EverettGriz]

I respect O'Day for taking responsibility in the article. I don't know if comparing it to Manziel was accurate since the only reason Manziel got a half-game suspension is due to lack of evidence and his acceptance of the suspension to move forward. If the NCAA finds anything then he will surely be in much more trouble.

I don't know if I stand alone on this, but having closely watched the Griz over the past 2 decades, I can say the worst thing that has ever happened to the football program was hiring Pflugrad. He brought nothing but problems to the school and program. He tried to run a classy program like things were run in Oregon and realized Nike doesn't cover up his shit like they do for the ducks. Montana is special because of the integrity and character that sets us apart from much of the rest of the country, and Pflugrad jeopardized all of that during his few years at the helm. I, for one, feel that he owes Griz Nation a huge apology for his lack of discipline and control of the program and all the issues that resulted. The negative, national news that the Griz made over the past 5 years is embarrassing and I have never been happier to see someone go.

What a colossal crock of shit. :roll:

The trend of arrests and problems started way before he got here with another coach a lot of people didn't like.

You are right and wrong. Right that problems started before he got here. Wrong on your reference to the coach. Do you not think if there were major wrong doing during Hauck's time here, the NCAA would have spent 18 months on this, and let coach Hauck slide by? Sorry, BS. Like him or not, Hauck's teams were disciplined, played hard, were prepared, and all they did was WIN!!! Save the big game comments. Other than not winning the big game, he was one damn good GRIZ coach. I'd take him back here in a heart beat.

Good post.

 

[justanotherfan]

This whole area was completely mishandled by a president who is over his head and has to go! His ineptitude has critically tarnished the reputation of a great university. In addition, his incompetent decisions have damaged individual's lives, caused donors to stop contributing, and negatively impacted both enrollment and budgets.

The "self imposed sanctions" are just the latest in a string of horrible decisions by Royce Engstrom.

This mess won't go away until a change is made at the top.

The University of Montana deserves better!

 

[AllWeatherFan]

I'd take him back here in a heart beat.

What do you mean you would "take Bobby Hauck back?" He quit to take a new job. He ain't coming back. What am I missing?

 

[EverettGriz]

Didn't you know? The Westboro Baptist Church is on their way to Bozeman to "reveal the truth" about MSU.

In any event I was not referring to the U as a whole just the athletic department. RE is still under the misconception that eliminating Foley (one of the promises he made during the vetting) has cured many of the morale problems within the faculty. He has some support still within the Athletic Counsel, but darn little and its on hold elsewhere. He has managed to raise some big money out of state dierected towards "saving" the business school (stayed tuned for announcements) and believe it or not formed an alliance with an Australian Mining company opening new mines in West Africa for some environmental work that could pay off big. None the less in many of their minds with all the other distractions out of the way he is basically just starting his job. I don't think he will have a long probation.....

Alumini money (Big money) ultimatley comes for reasons well beyond supporting the old school. The vast majority of it comes from the promise of inside access, flesh pressing and stroking massive egos Why I don't doubt there are a number factors effecting it at present. It will be back. There is always new meat.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, but a big issue is that there isn't anyone that thinks RE is "big flesh" to press. The Griz and O'Day used to be pretty big flesh. No one fills that role right now at the U.

While there is some truth to this, whose fault is that? Was Engstrom supposed to keep JOD and Pflu on because it'll mean a few hundred thou in athletic donations? The reputation of the University was at stake, and I guarantee that's more valuable than a few big donor fish. And truth be told, there were donor whales sitting on the sideline waiting to see how UM handled their issues. I think the Foundation would tell you those whales have now opened up their wallets again.

We all love Jim. But he needs to realize that UM is still a university first. And as many have suggested, it's time to move on, both personally and professionally.

 

[justanotherfan]

Didn't you know? The Westboro Baptist Church is on their way to Bozeman to "reveal the truth" about MSU.

In any event I was not referring to the U as a whole just the athletic department. RE is still under the misconception that eliminating Foley (one of the promises he made during the vetting) has cured many of the morale problems within the faculty. He has some support still within the Athletic Counsel, but darn little and its on hold elsewhere. He has managed to raise some big money out of state dierected towards "saving" the business school (stayed tuned for announcements) and believe it or not formed an alliance with an Australian Mining company opening new mines in West Africa for some environmental work that could pay off big. None the less in many of their minds with all the other distractions out of the way he is basically just starting his job. I don't think he will have a long probation.....

Alumini money (Big money) ultimatley comes for reasons well beyond supporting the old school. The vast majority of it comes from the promise of inside access, flesh pressing and stroking massive egos Why I don't doubt there are a number factors effecting it at present. It will be back. There is always new meat.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, but a big issue is that there isn't anyone that thinks RE is "big flesh" to press. The Griz and O'Day used to be pretty big flesh. No one fills that role right now at the U.

While there is some truth to this, whose fault is that? Was Engstrom supposed to keep JOD and Pflu on because it'll mean a few hundred thou in athletic donations? The reputation of the University was at stake, and I guarantee that's more valuable than a few big donor fish. And truth be told, there were donor whales sitting on the sideline waiting to see how UM handled their issues. I think the Foundation would tell you those whales have now opened up their wallets again.

We all love Jim. But he needs to realize that UM is still a university first. And as many of suggested, it's time to move on, both personally and professionally.

No, RE was supposed to keep them on because there was no reason to fire them and cause this sh*t storm. I fully expected we were going to find out in time that there were major issues. Where are they? One football player pleads guilty to sexual assault and the NCAA 18 month investigation amount to charges for jay walking. Are we to expect more yet?..I have not heard rumors of more allegations. So all of this mess over what? I am still waiting to hear!

This is much more than a few hundred thou in athletic donations involved...like enrollment and related budget hits...and people's lives. The reputation of the University took a major hit because of bad decisions at the top.

Also, this whale has not reopened his wallet and will not do so until a change is made at the top.

The University of Montana deserves better!

 

['68griz]

This whole area was completely mishandled by a president who is over his head and has to go! His ineptitude has critically tarnished the reputation of a great university. In addition, his incompetent decisions have damaged individual's lives, caused donors to stop contributing, and negatively impacted both enrollment and budgets.

The "self imposed sanctions" are just the latest in a string of horrible decisions by Royce Engstrom.

This mess won't go away until a change is made at the top.

The University of Montana deserves better!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[PlayerRep]

Small point PR and just curious, how do you take a criminal case on a contingency?

When you think the acts of the police rise to the level of a civil rights/battery claim. You do the criminal case for free to get a dismissal or acquittal, then you have the civil rights/battery claim on a contingency. Happens all the time. True.

This is an example of where the university failed to properly resist the ncaa's allegations. This argument was completely winnable, in my view.