It is a Coaching Problem....

[stubbins]

they may prefer it, but they just can't do it.

Were they doing it last year in the spread?

The o-line has done fairly well, or very well, in most games. Just not so well in some games. Certainly not NAU. Not at several other times too.

How were they doing in 2011 and even last year? What were the rushing averages compared to this year. And more importantly, now that teams have a few game tapes to watch, how has the productivity dropped off this year?

 

[George Ferguson]

PR is right, every single one of the Griz receivers can play and excel in this offense. PERIOD. It doesn't matter WHO recruited them. They are ALL suited for this O just fine.

 

[PlayerRep]

they may prefer it, but they just can't do it.

Were they doing it last year in the spread?

The o-line has done fairly well, or very well, in most games. Just not so well in some games. Certainly not NAU. Not at several other times too.

How were they doing in 2011 and even last year? What were the rushing averages compared to this year. And more importantly, now that teams have a few game tapes to watch, how has the productivity dropped off this year?

The players playing in 2011 were not recruited for the spread. They were largely recruited by Hauck.

 

[stubbins]

they may prefer it, but they just can't do it.

Were they doing it last year in the spread?

The o-line has done fairly well, or very well, in most games. Just not so well in some games. Certainly not NAU. Not at several other times too.

How were they doing in 2011 and even last year? What were the rushing averages compared to this year. And more importantly, now that teams have a few game tapes to watch, how has the productivity dropped off this year?

The players playing in 2011 were not recruited for the spread. They were largely recruited by Hauck.

So a coach put them in a system they weren't equipped for and excelled, and now we have a coach who can't excel with a system they should be better in.....interesting.

 

[PlayerRep]

Were they doing it last year in the spread?

The o-line has done fairly well, or very well, in most games. Just not so well in some games. Certainly not NAU. Not at several other times too.

How were they doing in 2011 and even last year? What were the rushing averages compared to this year. And more importantly, now that teams have a few game tapes to watch, how has the productivity dropped off this year?

The players playing in 2011 were not recruited for the spread. They were largely recruited by Hauck.

So a coach put them in a system they weren't equipped for and excelled, and now we have a coach who can't excel with a system they should be better in.....interesting.

UM didn't excel in Pflu's first year. It took until the 2d year. Delaney used the spread/hurry up last year. This is the first year with his offensive system, and we are currently 6-2.

 

[uofmman1122]

How were they doing in 2011 and even last year? What were the rushing averages compared to this year. And more importantly, now that teams have a few game tapes to watch, how has the productivity dropped off this year?

The players playing in 2011 were not recruited for the spread. They were largely recruited by Hauck.

So a coach put them in a system they weren't equipped for and excelled, and now we have a coach who can't excel with a system they should be better in.....interesting.

UM didn't excel in Pflu's first year. It took until the 2d year. Delaney used the spread/hurry up last year. This is the first year with his offensive system, and we are currently 6-2.

And yet, according to you, we were JJ away from being undefeated last year.

Sounds like we're worse off, if you truly believe that.

 

[griz5700]

Who, besides perhaps several qb's, was recruited for the spread/read-zone offense?

Who is not suited for playing in the current offense?

Besides that Jordan Johnson guy... Guys like Canada, Naccarato, Walcott, Saylor, Warren come to mind. I think you could look to the O-line as well - big, tall, athletic guys who excel in a zone scheme where they can get out in open space and create lanes for our smaller, quick backs.

I don't agree on any of the receivers you mentioned. They are perfectly fine for the current offense. They are receivers. They are suited for any offense that passes. Saylor is big; he's not a spread guy. Warren was recruited by Hauck, so he certainly wasn't recruited for the spread. A big, tall o-line is more suited for the current offense than the spread. The o-line has said they prefer the new offense, and the pound it mentionality.

Good catch on Warren, I forgot he was a Hauck recruit.

I disagree with you on a few points however.

Yes, they are receivers, and receivers catch the ball, but the key to the spread is having receivers who are great blockers and who can make plays in open space. Saylor wouldn't have been recruited to play receiver by Delaney, he’d be a TE for sure. Pflugrad saw him as a big, athletic guy who could block on the outside and go after balls in the red zone. He was a spread WR because of his size and blocking, not speed, route running, or pass catching abilities - none of which are great.

Of course the O-line prefers the new pound it offense, but that doesn't mean they have developed the skills to effectively dominate in a power run offense. I bet they hate their play of late and have to be extremely frustrated. I thought this line was our biggest strength coming into the season and assumed they had the talent and strength to flourish in a man on man, run blocking scheme. But they are struggling in the run and most surprisingly, struggling in their pass protection. Their size and speed was prefect for our prior zone scheme. You would assume that size and speed would translate, but it hasn’t. It’s tough to be 6’7” and get leverage at the point of attack to drive the DT’s off the line. The talent is there, so what’s up? I’m looking at you, Scott Gragg…

Most importantly, Jordan Johnson is one of the best spread/zone-read QB’s in the country. He’s an extremely smart player who could run that offense in his sleep. I don’t understand how you could have a player with his skill and knowledge and not use it to your advantage. It’s just crazy to me. Johnson has struggled in the pocket this season and has taken a beating doing so. Notice how many batted balls opposing D’s have on him? Teams have figured out how to keep him in the pocket and take away his playmaking abilities outside the hashes.

This offense is not improving and our best player’s skills aren't being utilized. And that player is getting destroyed in the process. Talent is there, coaching clearly isn't.

 

[Tokyogriz]

Spot on Griz5700.

 

[PlayerRep]

Who, besides perhaps several qb's, was recruited for the spread/read-zone offense?

Who is not suited for playing in the current offense?

Besides that Jordan Johnson guy... Guys like Canada, Naccarato, Walcott, Saylor, Warren come to mind. I think you could look to the O-line as well - big, tall, athletic guys who excel in a zone scheme where they can get out in open space and create lanes for our smaller, quick backs.

I don't agree on any of the receivers you mentioned. They are perfectly fine for the current offense. They are receivers. They are suited for any offense that passes. Saylor is big; he's not a spread guy. Warren was recruited by Hauck, so he certainly wasn't recruited for the spread. A big, tall o-line is more suited for the current offense than the spread. The o-line has said they prefer the new offense, and the pound it mentionality.

Good catch on Warren, I forgot he was a Hauck recruit.

I disagree with you on a few points however.

Yes, they are receivers, and receivers catch the ball, but the key to the spread is having receivers who are great blockers and who can make plays in open space. Saylor wouldn't have been recruited to play receiver by Delaney, he’d be a TE for sure. Pflugrad saw him as a big, athletic guy who could block on the outside and go after balls in the red zone. He was a spread WR because of his size and blocking, not speed, route running, or pass catching abilities - none of which are great.

Of course the O-line prefers the new pound it offense, but that doesn't mean they have developed the skills to effectively dominate in a power run offense. I bet they hate their play of late and have to be extremely frustrated. I thought this line was our biggest strength coming into the season and assumed they had the talent and strength to flourish in a man on man, run blocking scheme. But they are struggling in the run and most surprisingly, struggling in their pass protection. Their size and speed was prefect for our prior zone scheme. You would assume that size and speed would translate, but it hasn’t. It’s tough to be 6’7” and get leverage at the point of attack to drive the DT’s off the line. The talent is there, so what’s up? I’m looking at you, Scott Gragg…

Most importantly, Jordan Johnson is one of the best spread/zone-read QB’s in the country. He’s an extremely smart player who could run that offense in his sleep. I don’t understand how you could have a player with his skill and knowledge and not use it to your advantage. It’s just crazy to me. Johnson has struggled in the pocket this season and has taken a beating doing so. Notice how many batted balls opposing D’s have on him? Teams have figured out how to keep him in the pocket and take away his playmaking abilities outside the hashes.

This offense is not improving and our best player’s skills aren't being utilized. And that player is getting destroyed in the process. Talent is there, coaching clearly isn't.

It is important in this offense, as well as Hauck's, that the receivers block well. Virtually none of these receivers were recruiting for their blocking abilities. They learn it when they are here. Saylor would have been recruited by Delaney too. The coaches like Saylor because he is a big receiver.

The o-line struggled in pass blocking in only the NAU game. Pass blocking has generally, but not always, been good in the other games. There is more to pass blocking than just the o-line. The backs and h-backs are also part of it. JJ has been sacked only 9 times in 7 games--4 of which were in the NAU game. That's pretty good. Only CP (running team) and PSU have given up fewer sacks, of Big Sky teams. It looks like there are 4 teams in the top 25 that have given up fewer sacks than UM's 9.

I think the size of the offense is more suited for the current offense than the spread.

JJ had 1 batted ball against EWU and 3 against CP, all in the first half. I don't think JJ has "struggled" this year. He's playing very well.

 

[rgrizfan]

An interesting stat...JJ first 3 quarters - 13/23 173 1TD 4th quarter - 13/21 176 3TD I am curious how many times he was under center in the 4th quarter?

 

[GrizzleMoose]

I see a lot of arguing about the spread/zone read offense. Did anyone not notice that we ran a lot of zone read plays against EWU? It was kind of an odd set where JJ was in the shotgun and Wilson and Canada on the sides. I believe we ran it at least 3 or 4 times and I don't think we gained a single yard out of that set. It just really didn't look right, almost looked like a blown play every time we ran it.