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It is a Coaching Problem....

GrizzleMoose

Well-known member
Reading through posts and comments on here I continue to hear the "while the play calling has been bad, the players still need to tackle, block, run, pass,etc., etc.". This is true to a point but, in the big picture, it is a coaching problem when your defense tackles poorly, or covers poorly, or is continually out of position, or over pursues. It is also a coaching problem when the players don't block, or hit the right hole, etc., etc. We have very talented football players on this team who continually make mistakes. Mistakes happen, the goal is to limit those mistakes, force the other team to make more mistakes, and capitalize on it when the other team makes those mistakes. This is a football team that does none of those things right now. That is why we cannot beat very good football teams. We are being outcoached and until things change, we will not beat the very good teams, period.

It all starts with fundamentals and making the necessary changes and adjustments at the right times. I think this team will probably win the next three games but will eventually lose to the Cats (hope I am wrong but I don't see it happening right now). I am seeing this team as a good football team but not a very good football team at this time.

I am hoping that this staff takes a serious look at itself in the next few weeks and makes some serious adjustments. If not, it will be a struggle just to finish 2-2.
 
I don't agree. If the individual player things you mention are in fact the problems, then it is only partially a coaching problem. It is more of a player or player-execution problem.
 
I DO agree that it is a coaching problem. Good coaches take good players and make them better. Bad or mediocre coaches fail to make good players better. This team has regressed during the season, not gotten better. The same thing happened last year.
 
PlayerRep said:
I don't agree. If the individual player things you mention are in fact the problems, then it is only partially a coaching problem. It is more of a player or player-execution problem.

And I don't agree with you. Players will make mistakes as that is part of the game. The problem is when those mistakes are continuous and wide-spread, that is an indication of lackluster preparation. It is the coaches' job to prepare the players and the team, overall poor tackling, being out of position, missing blocks, blown coverages, etc. is a coaching issue and I don't see how you can disagree with that. So in response to all of the people calling for MD and staff to be fired (which is not my belief at this point in time), would you prefer that we fire several or many of the players responsible for the mistakes instead?
 
No gimmee games in final stretch with the usual suspects at the coaching helm.

All will prove to be an adventure with questionable game planning and "let's run the same fail play" over again mentality.

The talent is there but the 'brain trust' is suspect IMO!
 
GrizzleMoose said:
PlayerRep said:
I don't agree. If the individual player things you mention are in fact the problems, then it is only partially a coaching problem. It is more of a player or player-execution problem.

And I don't agree with you. Players will make mistakes as that is part of the game. The problem is when those mistakes are continuous and wide-spread, that is an indication of lackluster preparation. It is the coaches' job to prepare the players and the team, overall poor tackling, being out of position, missing blocks, blown coverages, etc. is a coaching issue and I don't see how you can disagree with that. So in response to all of the people calling for MD and staff to be fired (which is not my belief at this point in time), would you prefer that we fire several or many of the players responsible for the mistakes instead?

Actually You may have a point. I don't know about firing them (players or coaches) BUT as I recall it didn't matter WHO you were when Bobby was here, if you fumbled the ball you rode the bench allowing someone else to prove themselves. Our defense is still in pads on thursday running tackling drills. Thats not good. I'm not sure the lack of High school skills can be blamed on the coaches.

If we are going to start pointing fingers, you stand at the top of a very slippery slope. The most costly errors have been made by the best players. The coaches can't be on the field with the players. Just exactly what coaching changes would have prevented a couple of goal line fumble that had they not occured, would concievably have changed the outcome of both losses? (assuming nothing else went wrong.)
 
The coaches are supposed to get the players in best position THEN if if they dont make the play that happens. This staff does not put the players in best position to succeed.... a team can fail and have it NOT be coaches fault like when Allatoona knew hiram was gonna run a fake punt and had the kids in right position but a missed tackle led to first down and thats just football... I dont believe Griz players are put in the BEST position to succeed and they are coached like they are an underdog,and thats why the Griz could lose 3 more(i dont think we will lose 3)
 
tnt said:
GrizzleMoose said:
PlayerRep said:
I don't agree. If the individual player things you mention are in fact the problems, then it is only partially a coaching problem. It is more of a player or player-execution problem.

And I don't agree with you. Players will make mistakes as that is part of the game. The problem is when those mistakes are continuous and wide-spread, that is an indication of lackluster preparation. It is the coaches' job to prepare the players and the team, overall poor tackling, being out of position, missing blocks, blown coverages, etc. is a coaching issue and I don't see how you can disagree with that. So in response to all of the people calling for MD and staff to be fired (which is not my belief at this point in time), would you prefer that we fire several or many of the players responsible for the mistakes instead?

Actually You may have a point. I don't know about firing them (players or coaches) BUT as I recall it didn't matter WHO you were when Bobby was here, if you fumbled the ball you rode the bench allowing someone else to prove themselves. Our defense is still in pads on thursday running tackling drills. Thats not good. I'm not sure the lack of High school skills can be blamed on the coaches.

If we are going to start pointing fingers, you stand at the top of a very slippery slope. The most costly errors have been made by the best players. The coaches can't be on the field with the players. Just exactly what coaching changes would have prevented a couple of goal line fumble that had they not occured, would concievably have changed the outcome of both losses? (assuming nothing else went wrong.)

I am not saying anything about coaching changes. I am talking about preparation. Fundamentals and schemes putting our players in the right positions at the right times, if you are fundamentally weak, you are coached poorly. That is a fact. Like I said before, mistakes will happen but a lot of things need to be cleaned up and that is the responsibility of the coaches.
 
GrizzleMoose said:
I am not saying anything about coaching changes. I am talking about preparation. Fundamentals and schemes putting our players in the right positions at the right times, if you are fundamentally weak, you are coached poorly. That is a fact. Like I said before, mistakes will happen but a lot of things need to be cleaned up and that is the responsibility of the coaches.


I get all of that, I'm just trying to figure out a way to say at some point, you just can't polish a turd. If we are still trying to get these kids to tackle properly to the point of pads on drills on Thurs. I'm prepared to say maybe we have some turd polishing occurring. Even Bob Hermes can teach fundamentals. Should we be doing so at this level??? Every minute we do that (and its needed) is a minute away from game preparation which we obviously need as well....
 
UM is 6-2 and ranked no. 12 in the nation. Maybe some of you need to get realistic about your expectations. My guess is that most of you, at the beginning of the season, would have been very happy to by 6-2 at this point of the season.
 
rabid_griz said:
I DO agree that it is a coaching problem. Good coaches take good players and make them better. Bad or mediocre coaches fail to make good players better. This team has regressed during the season, not gotten better. The same thing happened last year.

The team hasn't regressed. The competition has gotten tougher. You DO realize that just eight days ago we blasted UC-Davis 42-7, yes? :roll:
 
PlayerRep said:
UM is 6-2 and ranked no. 12 in the nation. Maybe some of you need to get realistic about your expectations. My guess is that most of you, at the beginning of the season, would have been very happy to by 6-2 at this point of the season.

Yep. Only everyone thought those losses would be to App State and EWU. So because it's NAU and EWU suddenly the ship be sinkin'! :lol: :lol:
 
PlayerRep said:
UM is 6-2 and ranked no. 12 in the nation. Maybe some of you need to get realistic about your expectations. My guess is that most of you, at the beginning of the season, would have been very happy to by 6-2 at this point of the season.

Expectations will always be high, as they should be. Every year players and coaches at UM talk about winning championships. That is the standard this program has built.

6-2 is good but this team isn't improving, which is alarming. Great teams peak in November not September. That falls on the coaches.
 
AZGrizFan said:
rabid_griz said:
I DO agree that it is a coaching problem. Good coaches take good players and make them better. Bad or mediocre coaches fail to make good players better. This team has regressed during the season, not gotten better. The same thing happened last year.

The team hasn't regressed. The competition has gotten tougher. You DO realize that just eight days ago we blasted UC-Davis 42-7, yes? :roll:

Actually, we didn't just blast UC-Davis eight days ago. The week prior to playing EWU, we barely managed to beat Cal-Poly at home. We didn't look good in that game either, so you're kind of making my point for me. After beating the tar out of U.C. Davis, we didn't carry that momentum forward. We didn't continue to get better or even maintain the level we were at. WE REGRESSED! There's lots of talk here about poor execution by the players, yet you're trying to tell me the competition has simply gotten better. So which is it? Either way, it's bad. We should be able to play with anyone in the Big Sky.

One of the things I heard on the post-game show this week (I can't remember if it was Guernsey or Holien who said it) was that we shouldn't feel as bad about the EWU loss as we did about the NAU loss, since at least the EWU loss came against a team that was better than us. Since when are we supposed to be willing to acknowlege that EWU is a better team than we are and take comfort in it as we nurse our wounds? Now, apparently.

Eastern Washington has now beaten us three of the last four years. That's terrible. There's no excuse for it. I mean, seriously, have you ever BEEN to Cheney? I have. We USED to set the standard for play in the Big Sky. We USED to be the program everyone aspired to become. Now we've resorted to cheap pyrotechnics to replace consistently good, solid football.
 
griz5700 said:
PlayerRep said:
UM is 6-2 and ranked no. 12 in the nation. Maybe some of you need to get realistic about your expectations. My guess is that most of you, at the beginning of the season, would have been very happy to by 6-2 at this point of the season.

Expectations will always be high, as they should be. Every year players and coaches at UM talk about winning championships. That is the standard this program has built.

6-2 is good but this team isn't improving, which is alarming. Great teams peak in November not September. That falls on the coaches.
I agree that it falls on the coaches, and I'm not sure there is a damned thing to be done about it at this point.
 
Most us just hope that the Griz make the playoffs, and we are actually in a pretty good position to do that. I think we as Griz fans demand excellence, and we see lots of things out there that could be done better, and I am sure the coaches know that the tackling has not been good, but there is only so much you can do, only so much hitting you can do at full speed in practice to avoid injuries.
My only beef with the coaching is the play calling this season, it seems like they have no faith in the offense being able to pick up big yards until it is desperation time. Have we all forgotten that UND had 660 passing yards last season, so even Adams having 450 is a big improvement on that.
The defense was in decent position alot vs EWU, Hermy was right there for a pick on the first drive but did not attack the ball, allowing the receiver to catch it. Rominger was in great position on another touchdown for EWU but could not break up the play. The big play EWU had was an all out blitz that ended up being a pretty lucky play for EW because the receiver was able to run the ball down. Tully had a great pick off a great read of where the ball was coming, Harris had another good pick where he went up and got the ball. Chief was out and EW went right at Dennard all day long, and he not only could not stop the pass but could not even slow them down while attempting to tackle.
The coaches are much improved over last season as is the team, alot of that is JJ, but I dont blame the coaches for all the problems, players have to make plays! But the goalline roll out to the Fullback is a play that needs to be scrapped, 2 times we have ran it it resulted in fumbles because it was on 4th down, and JJ did not give up on the play.
 
rabid_griz said:
AZGrizFan said:
rabid_griz said:
I DO agree that it is a coaching problem. Good coaches take good players and make them better. Bad or mediocre coaches fail to make good players better. This team has regressed during the season, not gotten better. The same thing happened last year.

The team hasn't regressed. The competition has gotten tougher. You DO realize that just eight days ago we blasted UC-Davis 42-7, yes? :roll:

Actually, we didn't just blast UC-Davis eight days ago. The week prior to playing EWU, we barely managed to beat Cal-Poly at home. We didn't look good in that game either, so you're kind of making my point for me. After beating the tar out of U.C. Davis, we didn't carry that momentum forward. We didn't continue to get better or even maintain the level we were at. WE REGRESSED! There's lots of talk here about poor execution by the players, yet you're trying to tell me the competition has simply gotten better. So which is it? Either way, it's bad. We should be able to play with anyone in the Big Sky.

One of the things I heard on the post-game show this week (I can't remember if it was Guernsey or Holien who said it) was that we shouldn't feel as bad about the EWU loss as we did about the NAU loss, since at least the EWU loss came against a team that was better than us. Since when are we supposed to be willing to acknowlege that EWU is a better team than we are and take comfort in it as we nurse our wounds? Now, apparently.

Eastern Washington has now beaten us three of the last four years. That's terrible. There's no excuse for it. I mean, seriously, have you ever BEEN to Cheney? I have. We USED to set the standard for play in the Big Sky. We USED to be the program everyone aspired to become. Now we've resorted to cheap pyrotechnics to replace consistently good, solid football.

We BEAT Cal Poly, didn't we? And we lost by 5 to the #3 team in the country...I would say that qualifies as "playing with anybody in the Big Sky". Now, if you mean we should BEAT anyone in the Big Sky, like the "good ol' days", no thanks. I'd rather have some competition...makes for a better, more battle-tested team come playoff time.
 
griz5700 said:
PlayerRep said:
UM is 6-2 and ranked no. 12 in the nation. Maybe some of you need to get realistic about your expectations. My guess is that most of you, at the beginning of the season, would have been very happy to by 6-2 at this point of the season.

Expectations will always be high, as they should be. Every year players and coaches at UM talk about winning championships. That is the standard this program has built.

6-2 is good but this team isn't improving, which is alarming. Great teams peak in November not September. That falls on the coaches.


This team is improving, in my view. It isn't where it needs to be, and there are issues to fix, but it has been improving.
 
PlayerRep said:
This team is improving, in my view. It isn't where it needs to be, and there are issues to fix, but it has been improving.

Thats the most sensible thing I've read in two days, can't believe the source though.
 
PlayerRep said:
UM is 6-2 and ranked no. 12 in the nation. Maybe some of you need to get realistic about your expectations. My guess is that most of you, at the beginning of the season, would have been very happy to by 6-2 at this point of the season.

I hear ya, it just seems there are some really good things that this team CAN do. I think we have the potential/players to be much better this year. Some really really good things have happened on both sides of this team and then we stumble. Not going to claim I know what the answer is so I won't point fingers. I just think these kids are better than what has happened this season so far.
 

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