I hate the Portal

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

Senior KU linebacker just announced he is sitting for the rest of the year and will redshirt...and enter the portal. SENIOR!

Just crazy to me.

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article266780606.html

 

[AZGrizFan]

Senior KU linebacker just announced he is sitting for the rest of the year and will redshirt...and enter the portal. SENIOR!

Just crazy to me.

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article266780606.html

So in that scenario, I would assume he’d be gone at the winter break? And that his scholarship would be immediately pulled?

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article266780606.html

So in that scenario, I would assume he’d be gone at the winter break? And that his scholarship would be immediately pulled?

I believe he'll still have this semester to complete and it also depends upon the school. Next semester? I noted from the article both of the running backs next in line are transfers.

MSU had a kicker who transferred to one of the directional city schools in Ohio who was allowed to continue to use the facilities and he's that school's kicker this year. I believe all six of the kids who left MSU are starters in the school they transferred to and are closer to home.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Please explain the nuances between “paying” coaches, but “investing in” players.

Also, many many many coaches move up and fail. Many don’t go to a “better place”, nor do their teams perform better. Many don’t make it through their initial contract. Stitt moved up and failed miserably. Hauck had to go to f###[#] Las Vegas to “move up”—and failed miserably. Scott Frost had to go from sunny Florida to freaking NEBRASKA, and still failed. There are countless examples.

It's not just a nuance. Coaches are expected to perform at full speed immediately. There is no redshirting for coaches, or taking a few years to develop and get ready to be a contributor or starter. They are paid for this. It is a job.

Players usually don't become starters or contributors as frosh, or right away. They redshirt. They lift. They learn and develop. During those years, the schools are investing in them.

I don't agree that many many coaches move up and fail, although some do. Stitt was fired; he didn't just move on leave his team. Hauck was not successful at UNLV as head coach, but he did well at SDSU. He was also paid fairly well for his 8 or so years away from UM.

This is not meant as an argument against the Portal or transfer. It's just pointing out the situations of players and coaches are not in fact the same. Also, I don't view college football as job, nor do I think it should be. The unlimited amount of NIL has also created a huge problem, and will skew, and hurt, college sports in the long run.

I believe in amateurism. I don't want colleges to be minor leagues for professional football, or anything close.

The cat is out of the bag. We aren't going back. That's okay with me.

PR, I think we’re in very close alignment on this subject, so don’t take this as an attack on your position. But a few points of disagreement: 1) Stitt DID leave his team, it just wasn’t OUR team he left, it was Colorado School of Mines. Any coach that moves up (like Stitt and Hauck did) “leave” their team. 2) And many coaches are given an opportunity (or an investment made by the school) to have a period of time to “turn a program around”. Hauck was given that time by UNLV. I would consider that an “investment” by the school, hoping for returns over a period of time and not expecting immediate success. Granted, schools are shortening that timeframe considerably in recent years, but look how long Nebraska “invested” in Scott Frost before finally dumping his ass. 3) Thanks for the clarification on schools investing in players. 4) I agree completely about the amateurism aspect. It’s the one thing about college sports I’ve loved (and why I rarely watch pro sports at all). Losing that is gonna take some getting used to. 5) there are any number of examples of coaches who move up and fail. Dirk Koetter—had the world by the tail at BSU, failed at ASU. Dennis Erickson channeled six years of success at Miami into 10 years of mediocrity at OSU, Idaho and ASU. Joe Glenn left Montana and went 42-75 the rest of his coaching career. Craig Bohl, after going 43-2 his last 3 years at NDSU, moved “up” to Wyoming and has lost 53 games against just 48 victories in his time there. I could keep going, but I won’t.

Then again, maybe we just define failure differently. :| :|

 

[mthoopsfan]

It's not just a nuance. Coaches are expected to perform at full speed immediately. There is no redshirting for coaches, or taking a few years to develop and get ready to be a contributor or starter. They are paid for this. It is a job.

Players usually don't become starters or contributors as frosh, or right away. They redshirt. They lift. They learn and develop. During those years, the schools are investing in them.

I don't agree that many many coaches move up and fail, although some do. Stitt was fired; he didn't just move on leave his team. Hauck was not successful at UNLV as head coach, but he did well at SDSU. He was also paid fairly well for his 8 or so years away from UM.

This is not meant as an argument against the Portal or transfer. It's just pointing out the situations of players and coaches are not in fact the same. Also, I don't view college football as job, nor do I think it should be. The unlimited amount of NIL has also created a huge problem, and will skew, and hurt, college sports in the long run.

I believe in amateurism. I don't want colleges to be minor leagues for professional football, or anything close.

The cat is out of the bag. We aren't going back. That's okay with me.

PR, I think we’re in very close alignment on this subject, so don’t take this as an attack on your position. But a few points of disagreement: 1) Stitt DID leave his team, it just wasn’t OUR team he left, it was Colorado School of Mines. Any coach that moves up (like Stitt and Hauck did) “leave” their team. 2) And many coaches are given an opportunity (or an investment made by the school) to have a period of time to “turn a program around”. Hauck was given that time by UNLV. I would consider that an “investment” by the school, hoping for returns over a period of time and not expecting immediate success. Granted, schools are shortening that timeframe considerably in recent years, but look how long Nebraska “invested” in Scott Frost before finally dumping his ass. 3) Thanks for the clarification on schools investing in players. 4) I agree completely about the amateurism aspect. It’s the one thing about college sports I’ve loved (and why I rarely watch pro sports at all). Losing that is gonna take some getting used to. 5) there are any number of examples of coaches who move up and fail. Dirk Koetter—had the world by the tail at BSU, failed at ASU. Dennis Erickson channeled six years of success at Miami into 10 years of mediocrity at OSU, Idaho and ASU. Joe Glenn left Montana and went 42-75 the rest of his coaching career. Craig Bohl, after going 43-2 his last 3 years at NDSU, moved “up” to Wyoming and has lost 53 games against just 48 victories in his time there. I could keep going, but I won’t.

Then again, maybe we just define failure differently. :| :|

I don't view not be successful as failure. I don't view Glenn or Hauck as failing in any respect. In my view, they did just fine.

Stitt wasn't successful at UM, but I don't view his UM stay as a failure. Stitt was at Mines for 15 years. He didn't run out on Mines. No one needs to stay longer than 5 or so years anywhere.

Allowing a few years for a new coach to turn around a program, or get it going, isn't really an investment, in my view. It's just being realistic. The coach isn't being give several years of on the ground training. The new coach needs to be performing all basic function immediately.

Dennis Erickson was very successful coach, anyway you measure it, in my view.

Note that when many head coaches depart before the end of their contract term, a buyout payment is owed. A player doesn't owe anything like that.

The guys who are destined for the NFL are in a different class. They can do what they want. Most of the rest ought to consider having a great time playing with their friends, enjoying college, and getting a good education. Football doesn't last very long once you start college. Education can and ought to last a lifetime.

Reporting from Pacific Beach WA. Stayed at Fort Stevens State Park yesterday, near Astoria. What a great and beautiful park. Toured Fort Clapsop today.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Well as I said, maybe we just define failure differently.

And I’m not sure how you can view an AD giving a coach a couple years to turn a program around as “realistic” but giving a HS kid a couple years to become college ready to play as “an investment”, but not the other way around.

 

[Griz#64]

Enjoy your posts, however, i think one factor has not been addressed and that being the School Administrator's perception of athletics within their facility they may be looking through Rose Colored Glasses, maybe the grass is greener on the other side of the fence: Never bothering to water their own Grass. Maybe, the board of Regents has their head in the sand. as well. Go Griz Keep the stein. Yogi

 

[mthoopsfan]

Well as I said, maybe we just define failure differently.

And I’m not sure how you can view an AD giving a coach a couple years to turn a program around as “realistic” but giving a HS kid a couple years to become college ready to play as “an investment”, but not the other way around.

Because the coach is working full-time, hard and contributing at 100%. Not red shirting. Not on the scout team. Not sitting on the bench. The new coach has to do everything immediately, except win all of the games.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Well as I said, maybe we just define failure differently.

And I’m not sure how you can view an AD giving a coach a couple years to turn a program around as “realistic” but giving a HS kid a couple years to become college ready to play as “an investment”, but not the other way around.

Because the coach is working full-time, hard and contributing at 100%. Not red shirting. Not on the scout team. Not sitting on the bench. The new coach has to do everything immediately, except win all of the games.

Are those RS’s and scout team members not doing every single thing asked of them? Are they only giving 50%? Being a RS or riding the bench are the coach’s decisions, not the player’s. Seems as if you’re parsing words at this point. They’re both investments. Sure, they’re different kind of investments, but they’re both investments in which those making the investment hope for future dividends.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

The arguments against the portal, COLA (to include but not limited to stipends) and NIL remind me of contract negotiations with the teaching unions. When I proposed moving allowances, signing bonuses and student loan forgiveness, it was the "veteran" teachers who tried to shoot those ideas down simply because they were not afforded those opportunities when they began their career 40 to 50 years ago. It seems to be the old-well-over-their-prime-leather helmet group so damned set against providing a better opportunity for kids today.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Because the coach is working full-time, hard and contributing at 100%. Not red shirting. Not on the scout team. Not sitting on the bench. The new coach has to do everything immediately, except win all of the games.

Are those RS’s and scout team members not doing every single thing asked of them? Are they only giving 50%? Being a RS or riding the bench are the coach’s decisions, not the player’s. Seems as if you’re parsing words at this point. They’re both investments. Sure, they’re different kind of investments, but they’re both investments in which those making the investment hope for future dividends.

You are the one trying to parse words. About half of the players don’t even go on roads. Many players don’t even suit up for games. The standard isn’t whether they are doing what they asked to do. The standard is whether they are producing or contributing in games.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Are those RS’s and scout team members not doing every single thing asked of them? Are they only giving 50%? Being a RS or riding the bench are the coach’s decisions, not the player’s. Seems as if you’re parsing words at this point. They’re both investments. Sure, they’re different kind of investments, but they’re both investments in which those making the investment hope for future dividends.

You are the one trying to parse words. About half of the players don’t even go on roads. Many players don’t even suit up for games. The standard isn’t whether they are doing what they asked to do. The standard is whether they are producing or contributing in games.

YOUR standard is that. My standard is are they doing everything they’re asked.

We apparently have different definitions of THAt as well.

And FWIW: Neither are very important to me. :lol:

 

[mthoopsfan]

You are the one trying to parse words. About half of the players don’t even go on roads. Many players don’t even suit up for games. The standard isn’t whether they are doing what they asked to do. The standard is whether they are producing or contributing in games.

YOUR standard is that. My standard is are they doing everything they’re asked.

We apparently have different definitions of THAt as well.

And FWIW: Neither are very important to me. :lol:

When you hire senior employees and heads of divisions, do you redshirt them for a few years? Leave them home for some important business meetings? As opposed to new younger employees who are trained and invested in for several years?

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

Hilarious in that Collectives are not allowed to be associated with the college:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/34739678/following-nick-saban-jimbo-fisher-nil-spat-schools-answer-call-transparency

Then, in the real world we can find this (which is incorrect):

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/General-Motors-GM-Electrical-Engineer-Salaries-E279_D_KO18,37.htm#:~:text=The%20salary%20starts%20at%20%24100%2C945,the%20highest%20level%20of%20seniority.

The reason these data are wrong is my own family complaining about the inverse pyramid effect today; e.g., electrical engineers straight out of college are being paid more than the senior engineers who often have a master's degree in engineering. Time to get out of the union mentality and realize the kids are the ones driving this train called college football. It's all about recruiting and matching the recruits with you...if you don't, they're jumping in the portal and going where they're appreciated. It's good for college football. Not worth a damn for the dinosaurs and those who will not change with the new rules.

 

[SaskGriz]

Hilarious in that Collectives are not allowed to be associated with the college:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/34739678/following-nick-saban-jimbo-fisher-nil-spat-schools-answer-call-transparency

Then, in the real world we can find this (which is incorrect):

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/General-Motors-GM-Electrical-Engineer-Salaries-E279_D_KO18,37.htm#:~:text=The%20salary%20starts%20at%20%24100%2C945,the%20highest%20level%20of%20seniority.

The reason these data are wrong is my own family complaining about the inverse pyramid effect today; e.g., electrical engineers straight out of college are being paid more than the senior engineers who often have a master's degree in engineering. Time to get out of the union mentality and realize the kids are the ones driving this train called college football. It's all about recruiting and matching the recruits with you...if you don't, they're jumping in the portal and going where they're appreciated. It's good for college football. Not worth a damn for the dinosaurs and those who will not change with the new rules.

Alright Griz fans, next topic; Would this gibberish be considered authentic or frontier or both?

 

[AZGrizFan]

YOUR standard is that. My standard is are they doing everything they’re asked.

We apparently have different definitions of THAt as well.

And FWIW: Neither are very important to me. :lol:

When you hire senior employees and heads of divisions, do you redshirt them for a few years? Leave them home for some important business meetings? As opposed to new younger employees who are trained and invested in for several years?

My standard is that they’re doing 100% of everything they’re asked to do. I assume RSs’ and scout team members ARE, or they wouldn’t be on the team very long.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Hilarious in that Collectives are not allowed to be associated with the college:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/34739678/following-nick-saban-jimbo-fisher-nil-spat-schools-answer-call-transparency

Then, in the real world we can find this (which is incorrect):

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/General-Motors-GM-Electrical-Engineer-Salaries-E279_D_KO18,37.htm#:~:text=The%20salary%20starts%20at%20%24100%2C945,the%20highest%20level%20of%20seniority.

The reason these data are wrong is my own family complaining about the inverse pyramid effect today; e.g., electrical engineers straight out of college are being paid more than the senior engineers who often have a master's degree in engineering. Time to get out of the union mentality and realize the kids are the ones driving this train called college football. It's all about recruiting and matching the recruits with you...if you don't, they're jumping in the portal and going where they're appreciated. It's good for college football. Not worth a damn for the dinosaurs and those who will not change with the new rules.

Alright Griz fans, next topic; Would this gibberish be considered authentic or frontier or both?

I’ve said it a number of times on his posts. Definitely authentic frontier.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

Alright Griz fans, next topic; Would this gibberish be considered authentic or frontier or both?

I’ve said it a number of times on his posts. Definitely authentic frontier.

A school of English grammarians:

https://grammarhow.com/these-data-or-this-data/

Take, tsk...

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

I’ve said it a number of times on his posts. Definitely authentic frontier.

A school of English grammarians:

https://grammarhow.com/these-data-or-this-data/

Take, tsk...

*Edit: tsk, tsk...lol

 

[SaskGriz]

I’ve said it a number of times on his posts. Definitely authentic frontier.

A school of English grammarians:

https://grammarhow.com/these-data-or-this-data/

Take, tsk...

Good try, the uncommon singularity of these date is forgivable, you caught that vine Tarzan. You plummeted into the crocodiles when you proceeded to treat your singular with "are wrong" rather than "is wrong" and everything in the clause beyond the word wrong is completely authentic frontier gibberish. Go Canes!