HelenaHandBasket
Well-known member
Paytonlives said:
LOL.
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"Caitlyn Jenner says she opposes transgender girls competing in girls’ sports"
- Thread starter PlayerRep
- Start date
LOL.
Great theory, this 'fairness' thing. How you gonna fund it, how many participants, sufficient facilities, etc.? This is UM, hardly in any position to add anything to the offerings.
This is a mental health issue. DSM 5 changed the classification to not stigmatize this bunch, with their fragile egos and such.
What's next, schizophrenic sports, bi-polar sports, narcissistic sports, depressive sports? Let's not forget religion, so we add Catholic sports, protestant sports, Mormon sports, Satanic sports, Atheist sports.
Guys are guys, women are women. Name one trans woman that's had a baby. Think you are a bird, fly away. Think you are a trout, I'll catch ya later. This is a bottomless pit.
This is a mental health issue. DSM 5 changed the classification to not stigmatize this bunch, with their fragile egos and such.
What's next, schizophrenic sports, bi-polar sports, narcissistic sports, depressive sports? Let's not forget religion, so we add Catholic sports, protestant sports, Mormon sports, Satanic sports, Atheist sports.
Guys are guys, women are women. Name one trans woman that's had a baby. Think you are a bird, fly away. Think you are a trout, I'll catch ya later. This is a bottomless pit.
sdk.catfish
Well-known member
Please explain. So we are trying to teach our kids that life is fair when we all know that isn't. If a high school girl should lose to a trans athlete, which the possibility doesn't seem to exist in high school sports in Montana at this point, and gets a red ribbon instead of a blue that is somehow going to traumatize her for the rest of her life? Are you sure it isn't more about the helicopter parents than the kid? What about when she applies for a job and is beat out by a male (or trans) candidate? Man, if your looking for things not fair in life, and especially now in this country, this wouldn't be the first issue that comes to my mind. But if you want to keep taking your talking points from the Tucker Carlson's of the world there isn't much anyone can do - except moving this thread to political bs. I'll be interested to see the venom surfacing if the Griz (and potentially the Cats) are expected to win 3 or 4 playoff games on the road to teams ranked below because of a POS result of the Montana Legislature. Not fair? - don't come whining.
sdk.catfish said:
Your answers in bold...
tourist said:
True
HelenaHandBasket said:
Then why don't trans want to run/play in their birth sex sport.... because they wont win....
HelenaHandBasket said:
I wonder if any of the Legislators that voted for the bill sat down with any trans-gender athletes to talk about solutions to the issue. I am going to guess not.
HelenaHandBasket
Well-known member
Paytonlives said:
box brings up a valid point
tourist said:
So irresponsible to pass a bill without even talking with a group that will be affected. I would be fairly confident that none of the Legislators that voted yes have any first hand accounts with a trans-gender athlete, but a majority do have interaction with female athletes. Sounds like a biased bill to me, one that really wasn't even necessary at this time.. By the way, it seems that your dislike for trans-gender people is showing and you have bias also.
So I only posted because Payton flat out stated that trans-gender athletes don't want a solution because they only do it to win. I find that as a cop out answer, and believe that for the majority of trans-gender athletes, is not factual.
For the record, I don't think trans-gender athletes should compete against either males or females, each for a different reason. But the bill passed by the Legislature was unnecessary, and only addressed the issue for one party. There are many steps that could, and can lead to an amicable solution, to bad Montana decided to take an extreme step that they didn't need to.
Out
ilovethecats
Well-known member
sdk.catfish said:
Then why bother separating men’s and women’s sports at all at any level?
I see we're officially on thread #4 now.uofmman1122 said:
uofmman1122 said:
It’s such an interesting issue (to me). Going forward, if a trans male goes undergoes hormone therapy for personal reasons, would that be considered a form of “doping” which would preclude him from participating in sports altogether? Can’t compete with biological males under the law. Can’t compete with biological females because he identifies as male and has been taking hormones.
If they can still compete as females under the law, could it lead to more girls in physical sports “identifying” as male, taking hormones, and dominating their sports? IDK. Seems like it wouldn’t happen very often, but then...that’s not a deterrent to passing bills, I suppose.
The absurdity of this entire topic having any credence whatsoever in the national debate is mind boggling.
Does anyone here know a single person that's been personally impacted by this issue? I'll wait...
Doesn't this state and country have more pressing issues to tend to than outlawing the lottery-like odds of Little Timmy hopping on estrogen so she can dominate the softball diamond @ Hamilton High???
This is identity politics at its finest and a lot of you are wearing your fear/bias on your sleeves.
Apparently some of you crusaders care a lot more about "fairness" in women's high school athletics than you do about seeing a playoff game in WaGriz anytime in the foreseeable future...
Does anyone here know a single person that's been personally impacted by this issue? I'll wait...
Doesn't this state and country have more pressing issues to tend to than outlawing the lottery-like odds of Little Timmy hopping on estrogen so she can dominate the softball diamond @ Hamilton High???
This is identity politics at its finest and a lot of you are wearing your fear/bias on your sleeves.
Apparently some of you crusaders care a lot more about "fairness" in women's high school athletics than you do about seeing a playoff game in WaGriz anytime in the foreseeable future...
Quoting myself...tourist said:
...allow me to explain my explanation.That's the road this 'transgendered athlete' shit is heading toward. Someone asked 'why bother separating male and female sports at all, on any level?' Exactly. That's where this is ultimately headed, purposefully or not.
Let's obliterate the distinction between males and females, kind of like baseball batters throwing dirt about, with their feet, while getting ready to bat. Sooner or later the batters box is obliterated. No batters box, no boundaries(only example that comes to mind at this time).
The 'no problem at this time' (reactive v proactive)argument is agreeable to me, in the sense that the old Montana saying that the only time your wallet(or freedoms) are endangered is when the Legislature is in session. Why wait for a problem to arise?
To see this bill(HB 112) as a threat to 'playoff games in WGS' is a knee jerk microcosmic response to NGO intimidation/extortion over a relatively weaker/smaller opponent. Montana makes its own laws, not the NCAA or federal government. F*ck 'em, take 'em to court.
If my neighbor is transgendered, fine with me. Not a problem, I could care less. If my neighbors transgendered son competes with my biological daughter in sports, and the possibility of an athletic scholaship, there's a problem. There ARE biological differences between males and females relative to physical performance. Not much different than having performance enhancing drugs on board, or doping. It's having your 'thumb on the scale.' :rant:
I hope I have explained my explanation.
Just a question to further understand the topic. What are the criteria for a biological male to compete in female sports? Do they have to have medical records or counseling records showing they are transitioning (ie taking hormones etc)? Or can they simply choose to identify as a female and compete?
ilovethecats
Well-known member
Yep, totally clear.tourist said:Quoting myself...tourist said:
That's the road this 'transgendered athlete' shit is heading toward. Someone asked 'why bother separating male and female sports at all, on any level?' Exactly. That's where this is ultimately headed, purposefully or not.
Let's obliterate the distinction between males and females, kind of like baseball batters throwing dirt about, with their feet, while getting ready to bat. Sooner or later the batters box is obliterated. No batters box, no boundaries(only example that comes to mind at this time).
The 'no problem at this time' (reactive v proactive)argument is agreeable to me, in the sense that the old Montana saying that the only time your wallet(or freedoms) are endangered is when the Legislature is in session. Why wait for a problem to arise?
To see this bill(HB 112) as a threat to 'playoff games in WGS' is a knee jerk microcosmic response to NGO intimidation/extortion over a relatively weaker/smaller opponent. Montana makes its own laws, not the NCAA or federal government. F*ck 'em, take 'em to court.
If my neighbor is transgendered, fine with me. Not a problem, I could care less. If my neighbors transgendered son competes with my biological daughter in sports, and the possibility of an athletic scholaship, there's a problem. There ARE biological differences between males and females relative to physical performance. Not much different than having performance enhancing drugs on board, or doping. It's having your 'thumb on the scale.' :rant:
I hope I have explained my explanation.
Mine was a question to catfish mainly because the majority of his post was about "fairness". And I agree with most of what he said. Life isn't fair. Sports aren't always fair. Politics in high school sports are still rampant. Everyone SHOULDN'T get a trophy. I get all that. But if that is the justification in regards to the topic at hand, I feel my question is fair? Why separate them at all? Just have one basketball team, one football team. One team of all high school and college sports. Hell, maybe just one team in all sports at every level. One tee box for all in golf regardless of gender. May the best man, (or woman) win.
My personal opinion is that this wouldn't be "fair" to biological females. I think many would be left on the outside looking in when competing for the same positions as biological males. I could be wrong on this. But in terms of "fairness", and not giving everyone a ribbon, seems we don't need to separate males and females for sports at any level.
