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Bison player suspended over banned substance
- Thread starter HookedonGriz
- Start date
Talk about throwing people under the bus. Ask yourself: why would his mom make this up? She is a former, elite NDSU athlete.
Answer: she wouldn't.
Conclusion: NDSU staff provides banned substances to athletes.
Answer: she wouldn't.
Conclusion: NDSU staff provides banned substances to athletes.
PlayerRep said:
Absolutely not! CDA has more decency than to use the words "fudging" and "smearing" in the same sentence.
Ursa Major said:
Lol, both of you. Nice work, fellas.
The author should have also included: if it didn't come from a staff member, but instead an owner of a supplement company with access to the entire team, we should ensure that the players taking the banned drugs paid full price.
NDSU investigating itself would be a waste of time. The question is, can or will the NCAA do a proper and thorough investigation into the allegations and implications. I have no faith in the NCAA what so ever. Let the truth of the matter come to light. If NDSU is clean, shout it from the rooftops. If NDSU is dirty, or at least, less than clean, shout it from the rooftops. No coverups.
tourist said:
The cover up is already ongoing. Blame the player. Blame the mom. Blame caffeine. Blame the speaking coach. Blame the NCAA.
No accountability. Looks like a slam dunk case of lack of institutional control. Sad really.
Hammersmith
Active member
OK, looks like you've run off 2011BisonAlumni, so you don't have to posture and troll him anymore. I'm just curious as to what some of you honestly believe without the trolling and smack talk. I think we all know that pre-workout supplements containing caffeine are being used in all, or almost all, locker rooms. And it looks like the one used by BR is about average in caffeine content, so it's not like it was a supercharged product or anything. So either he was using too much of it, someone mixed it wrong, or BR is one of the rare genetic lottery losers whose body processes caffeine very slowly, allowing it to build up in the bloodstream.
I know you were pushing the whole "banned substance" language because it seemed to get under 2011's skin, but you do realize I could accuse UM of even worse behavior than what you're accusing of NDSU, and I'd be right? I could quickly prove that UM allows an outside entity to provide an NCAA banned substance to UM student-athletes, and that UM is provided a kick-back in return. Bet if you think for a moment, you'll realize I'm right. And it's true of almost 100% of college campuses.
So I'm just curious of your true opinions, without the smack and bluster. You seem to be talking about this more than most non-ND messageboards (even if most of it is CDA and 2011 going back and forth).
I know you were pushing the whole "banned substance" language because it seemed to get under 2011's skin, but you do realize I could accuse UM of even worse behavior than what you're accusing of NDSU, and I'd be right? I could quickly prove that UM allows an outside entity to provide an NCAA banned substance to UM student-athletes, and that UM is provided a kick-back in return. Bet if you think for a moment, you'll realize I'm right. And it's true of almost 100% of college campuses.
So I'm just curious of your true opinions, without the smack and bluster. You seem to be talking about this more than most non-ND messageboards (even if most of it is CDA and 2011 going back and forth).
Caffeine isn't the reason you guys have been so dominant, and if it is, that says a whole lot about the rest of FCS/College Football.Hammersmith said:
We had to deal with sanctions, vacated wins, loss of scholarships, the firing of a really great coach and AD, and our program spiraling down the toilet over one thing that on paper was probably slightly worse than this (bail money), and one thing that was not even nearly this bad (free hot dogs).
Some of your team's fans are so overzealous and myopic that they essentially just troll themselves.
This probably won't (and shouldn't) be a big deal, but the statements by the AD, in conjunction with the parents', either don't add up, or potentially suggest there's some grounds for investigating improper benefits as defined by the NCAA (which, again, is a terrible organization that makes the dumbest rules), and we're a fanbase that is all too familiar with what does and does not constitute "improper benefits".
That's about as objective as I can get here.
SoldierGriz said:
Maybe NDSU or the NCAA could hire James Comey to write a letter of exoneration, then state so at a press conference, that no reasonable governing body, such as the NCAA, would pursue the matter any further. Then not do any investigating. My god, where do I come up with such far fetched scenarios? :roll:
Hammersmith said:
Honestly, if I was a Fargo fan, I wouldn't be worried about this suspension or what it was for or everyone calling us cheaters. That's nothing. I'd be worried about potential improper benefits given that everyone seems to know where the kids got the stuff. That ain't small potatoes in terms of sanctions.
2011BisonAlumni
Well-known member
CDAGRIZ said:
Again, you are the only one suggesting NDSU players received an illegal benefit.
Big fucking surprise Mike McFooly wrote this article. He’s a Bison hater.
Any bison on here making this about a “caffeine” supplement is missing the forest for the trees. This always has been about Robbins claim of a Bison staffer (a person employed and paid by NDSU) giving this kid (and plenty of others) a substance banned by the NCAA....and then NDSU coaches, staff, and athletic dept denying that fact. Someone is lying. I am 100% certain it isn’t the Bison All American mom, son, or their family. Talk about being thrown under the bus by your “Bison family”....that’s what this is about you gravy tards.
2011BisonAlumni
Well-known member
HookedonGriz said:
It’s well known what the product is. I posted on here.
https://www.cleanvictorysupplements.com/products/stage-one-pre-workout
Go ahead and read through the ingredients. The banned ingredient is caffeine, but I’m pretty sure every college program in the history of the NCAA is technically giving their kids a banned product if they ever provide SODA or Coffee.
Workout supplements are extremely common. I can almost guarantee you the vast majority of college football players are using them.
Call me an asshole, but if I was a 22 year old, I would not have my fucking Mom sitting down with me for an interview, regardless of the situation. In this case, the NCAA puts out specific guidance on how to avoid testing for caffeine. Brock’s mom might be pissed, but if “everyone” was using it like she said, apparently the 53 other players who took it, and were tested, knew the threshold the NCAA says is OK to use without going over the limit.
Hammersmith
Active member
CDAGRIZ said:
Yeah, I agree with you on the improper benefits part. That's the part that worries me. I'm not happy that a guy affiliated with a supplement company was that close to the players. It's not necessarily a real issue, but it sure looks bad. If he was just recommending a (fully legal)product and maybe even delivering it instead of having it shipped, I'd grumble but not call for heads. If he provided samples(just samples) and then players purchased it from that point on, I'd be more worried as that at least skirts improper benefits. If he was flat-out providing it for free or at greatly reduced cost, then I'm really worried as that is a clear case of improper benefits.
The other thing I'd be worried about is if he or someone else encouraged players to regularly go beyond the dosage on the can.
To reference what someone else brought up, I don't think anyone has flat out lied on either side yet. I think both sides have 'massaged' the truth in an attempt to improve how they look. I suspect the product did originally come from BN, as in he was the guy who introduced it. I really hope introducing it was all he did. So Robbins's version of the story is technically correct. But I also believe at this point that the physical drink that put him over the edge for this particular test came from a fellow player. So NDSU's version of the story is also technically correct.
I also think there's a reason Robbins's family hasn't released the details and is keeping things vague. While there is some honest anger here, I think it's mostly about money. Depending on a couple things, this could be worth anywhere from $10k to $45k. At the very least, Robbins is going to lose scholarship money for the fall of 2019. He may also lose it from this semester, and he might have been planning on getting scholarship money this summer. Including everything plus the FCOA stipend, I think NDSU is on the order of $25k-30k a year.
So the family wants NDSU to keep paying that money even though BR can't play. NDSU doesn't want to do that because it sets a terrible precedent and it basically says NDSU was at fault. So mom goes to the media to try and put pressure on NDSU.
So why hold out on the exact product, the exact person, and the exact banned substance? Well, if it turns out we are correct with our Clean Victory caffeine deductions, think how it will play out in the court of public opinion. It will come out that the 'banned substance' is not steroids or HGH or illicit drugs, but caffeine. A staff member was providing caffeine; a substance probably 80+% of people consume at least on a weekly basis. The uproar goes poof. And if it was Clean Victory, then the immediate response by everyone is to show the side of the package and explain that you could only fail a drug test by taking at least a double dose; in other words, using the product improperly. Mom's moral high ground disappears in a flash unless she can show the players were instructed to prepare it that way. It's in the family's best interest to keep things vague in order to keep emotions high.
Now this is all moot if it does turn out to not be caffeine. If that happens, I'll be calling for a couple heads to roll just like everyone else. But as much as you hate to admit it, the lack of previous failed tests that 2011 kept pointing out does tend to suggest it wasn't anything else. The only other thing I could think it is is if another player had a prescription for Adderall or Ritalin and mixed it in with his drink and then someone gave it to BR by mistake. Unlikely, but possible. Also unlikely but possible is that BR is one of the rare people whose body processes caffeine much slower than a typical person. That could cause BR to test positive even at the prescribed dosage. But I don't really believe either of those two scenarios happened.
Running tally of blame:
Player with low caffeine tolarance.
Caffeine.
Player's mom.
Speaking coach.
NCAA.
Bison hating sports writers.
Adderrall.
Ritalin.
Full Cost of Attendance Scholarships.
What a shit-show.
Player with low caffeine tolarance.
Caffeine.
Player's mom.
Speaking coach.
NCAA.
Bison hating sports writers.
Adderrall.
Ritalin.
Full Cost of Attendance Scholarships.
What a shit-show.
Lets not go off half cocked here. There was no bus to be thrown under. It was a Chevy. Thanks be to Bertram and TCCGRIZ for that clarification. :thumb:
2011BisonAlumni, this reaction dates back to the NCAA(etc., etc., etc.) hangover which began about a year after your graduation. UM got f*cked many times by many entities. Therefore, the NCAA, and others, should treat all programs with the same amount of vigor and vitriol. If the crown jewel of FCS football programs(Griz)can be abused like it was, so should any other program at any level. NDSU, the current crown jewel, happened to fall under the microscope this time. The bar was set for UM, now its the NCAAs turn to apply that bar to NDSU.
2011BisonAlumni, this reaction dates back to the NCAA(etc., etc., etc.) hangover which began about a year after your graduation. UM got f*cked many times by many entities. Therefore, the NCAA, and others, should treat all programs with the same amount of vigor and vitriol. If the crown jewel of FCS football programs(Griz)can be abused like it was, so should any other program at any level. NDSU, the current crown jewel, happened to fall under the microscope this time. The bar was set for UM, now its the NCAAs turn to apply that bar to NDSU.
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