2012 Wide Receiver logjam

[mtgrizrule]

WOW, another thread thrown off over G1 calling someone out for sugar coating or being overly optimistic. It really no longer surprises me. Some people see a 1/2 glass of whatever, as 1/2 full, some see the same glass as 1/2 empty. The reality of of it is, you are still looking at the same thing. Even if by chance G1 does have positive thoughts, he will next to never lead anyone to believe that image here. Honestly, why should he? No matter the thread, or extreme he is, he may enjoy causing anything from a spark, to a full blown firestorm.

Seriously, I would be just as shocked seeing him post some positives, as I would see Brint posting negatives. By the way, Brint can be constructive when necessary. He just more carefully articulates any negativity, because he is an optimist by nature.

Back to G1, why he chooses to go after the positive posters, and comments? For some reason, he likes to take the more likely safe routes, when it comes to projecting a player's potential, and/or talent. Rather it be a large group (Our WR's), or just one player, I have never seen him positively comment on a player, or players. Instead, he just posts they have yet to do anything, or they won't/can't make the pros. If by some chance they do make the pros, do you notice, he does not chime in to give that player credit later? Why, he is hiding from being called out from someone telling him, "I told you so."

When it comes to "I told you so", he favors the attitude of where the percentages favor him, by playing it safe. He does the same to me, regarding Will Cherry. I posted in Will's FR year, I thought he had a NBA skill set, and ceiling. I have stayed loyal to that, and will not change my opinion. Yet, G1, consistently posts Will Cherry will not be make it. Even then, he plays it safe, he words it as, "He will not get drafted, or be taken in the 1st round." So, even if Will does make it, but does not get drafted, he can dispute he did not say, he would not make it. How dare G1 be wrong!!

So G1, being you are such an expert, 2 things for you. (1) Of our WR core, name your top 5, and what their ceiling is? And/or (2) In your opinion, drafted, or not, Do you think Will Cherry can make an NBA roster, and if not, what is his ceiling. If you say, international ball, to what level, EURO league, Asia, Russia, or where?

I will not be surprised if you avoid the ?'s, or if you do answer any, or both, it will be with dominant hue of grey.

 

[HighLineGRIZ]

"Research"????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: What, he carried a pad and pen around at practice? :thumb:

Thanks for proving that you'll more than likely not contribute anything of value to this thread.

It's much much easier putting down others' opinions than putting the effort into stating your own. Or lying...

 

[BigPawzSharpClawz]

Its a wonderful thing when your opponents spend more time on your fan site then they do they're own.
Go Grizz

 

[casewinter13]

lol AZgrizfan, pretty much stopped read your post after the first sentence or two...maybe skimmed the rest a little...you and i really just see things very differently it appears...first off, i dont care what kind of offense you run, EVERY OFFENSE IS MORE THREATENING WITH A COUPLE BIG PLAY GUYS...and theres absolutely no reason we dont have them...hopefully this incoming class changes that, but if henderson moved, and 2 of those freshman didnt play, then good lord are we slow at receiver!...who cares if pflu's offense was to spread the ball around, does that mean you dont wanna spread the ball around to guys that can actually break a play open?...Maybe Oregon should stop recruiting that speed at skill positions, it might get in the way of spreading that ball around...that reasoning makes absolutely zero sense...respectfully lol...as for your point of recruiting guys for a REASON...lol thats enlightening, thank you...except ya know, we probably recruit every player for a reason, and that doesnt mean that theyre explosive, evidently...case in point...almost our entire receiving corps!...weve got plenty of good route runners, plenty with hands, plenty that will block...unfortunately not plenty that can make anyone miss in the open field...or not so open field...

oh, and i have to say, if anyone didnt know that day 1 on campus jefferson heidleburger(sp?) was an absolute ankle breaker in the open field, then they need to consider LASIK...

Also, azdick , pretty sure i didnt mention Gamboa, and im positive i dont want him at receiver lol...would actually prefer him at LB, but whatever we need to do to get him on the field defensively makes sense to me

 

[grizcountry420]

WOW, another thread thrown off over G1 calling someone out for sugar coating or being overly optimistic. It really no longer surprises me. Some people see a 1/2 glass of whatever, as 1/2 full, some see the same glass as 1/2 empty. The reality of of it is, you are still looking at the same thing. Even if by chance G1 does have positive thoughts, he will next to never lead anyone to believe that image here. Honestly, why should he? No matter the thread, or extreme he is, he may enjoy causing anything from a spark, to a full blown firestorm.

Seriously, I would be just as shocked seeing him post some positives, as I would see Brint posting negatives. By the way, Brint can be constructive when necessary. He just more carefully articulates any negativity, because he is an optimist by nature.

Back to G1, why he chooses to go after the positive posters, and comments? For some reason, he likes to take the more likely safe routes, when it comes to projecting a player's potential, and/or talent. Rather it be a large group (Our WR's), or just one player, I have never seen him positively comment on a player, or players. Instead, he just posts they have yet to do anything, or they won't/can't make the pros. If by some chance they do make the pros, do you notice, he does not chime in to give that player credit later? Why, he is hiding from being called out from someone telling him, "I told you so."

When it comes to "I told you so", he favors the attitude of where the percentages favor him, by playing it safe. He does the same to me, regarding Will Cherry. I posted in Will's FR year, I thought he had a NBA skill set, and ceiling. I have stayed loyal to that, and will not change my opinion. Yet, G1, consistently posts Will Cherry will not be make it. Even then, he plays it safe, he words it as, "He will not get drafted, or be taken in the 1st round." So, even if Will does make it, but does not get drafted, he can dispute he did not say, he would not make it. How dare G1 be wrong!!

So G1, being you are such an expert, 2 things for you. (1) Of our WR core, name your top 5, and what their ceiling is? And/or (2) In your opinion, drafted, or not, Do you think Will Cherry can make an NBA roster, and if not, what is his ceiling. If you say, international ball, to what level, EURO league, Asia, Russia, or where?

I will not be surprised if you avoid the ?'s, or if you do answer any, or both, it will be with dominant hue of grey.

WOW! Says the dude that is calling out the dude while calling out the dude... :?

 

[Brock Landers]

The dude paradox as it were

 

[WaGriz4life]

The dude paradox as it were

word

 

[Alaska Griz]

Actually Casewinter, Jefferson was not an ankle breaker. he was one of the more straight ahead recievers we've had. His big plays were end arounds, deep routes, and watch his return game; straight ahead. He was pretty fast though, much more with pads on the field than the track. Also,, in regards to speed, having watched Haynes in practice and scrimmages, I would call him a burner. Obviously Walcott and Naccarato are exceptionally fast. In regards to Remax's term logjam, I think it's accurate and refers to this situation where we watching for standouts, but the season will tell that, not the off-season. I think top to bottom, with the incoming class, the team speed is about the best we've had.

 

[AZGrizFan]

lol AZgrizfan, pretty much stopped read your post after the first sentence or two...maybe skimmed the rest a little...you and i really just see things very differently it appears...first off, i dont care what kind of offense you run, EVERY OFFENSE IS MORE THREATENING WITH A COUPLE BIG PLAY GUYS...and theres absolutely no reason we dont have them...hopefully this incoming class changes that, but if henderson moved, and 2 of those freshman didnt play, then good lord are we slow at receiver!...who cares if pflu's offense was to spread the ball around, does that mean you dont wanna spread the ball around to guys that can actually break a play open?...Maybe Oregon should stop recruiting that speed at skill positions, it might get in the way of spreading that ball around...that reasoning makes absolutely zero sense...respectfully lol...as for your point of recruiting guys for a REASON...lol thats enlightening, thank you...except ya know, we probably recruit every player for a reason, and that doesnt mean that theyre explosive, evidently...case in point...almost our entire receiving corps!...weve got plenty of good route runners, plenty with hands, plenty that will block...unfortunately not plenty that can make anyone miss in the open field...or not so open field...

oh, and i have to say, if anyone didnt know that day 1 on campus jefferson heidleburger(sp?) was an absolute ankle breaker in the open field, then they need to consider LASIK...

Also, azdick , pretty sure i didnt mention Gamboa, and im positive i dont want him at receiver lol...would actually prefer him at LB, but whatever we need to do to get him on the field defensively makes sense to me

Point being, somehow guys like Mariani flew under EVERYBODY's radar, and if Heidelberger was that good why did he only have 2 catches his first year? I'm fairly confident that someone (hell, probably multiple someones) will step up this year. And we might even break a long TD or two.

Dick.

 

[AZDoc]

lol AZgrizfan, pretty much stopped read your post after the first sentence or two...maybe skimmed the rest a little...you and i really just see things very differently it appears...first off, i dont care what kind of offense you run, EVERY OFFENSE IS MORE THREATENING WITH A COUPLE BIG PLAY GUYS...and theres absolutely no reason we dont have them...hopefully this incoming class changes that, but if henderson moved, and 2 of those freshman didnt play, then good lord are we slow at receiver!...who cares if pflu's offense was to spread the ball around, does that mean you dont wanna spread the ball around to guys that can actually break a play open?...Maybe Oregon should stop recruiting that speed at skill positions, it might get in the way of spreading that ball around...that reasoning makes absolutely zero sense...respectfully lol...as for your point of recruiting guys for a REASON...lol thats enlightening, thank you...except ya know, we probably recruit every player for a reason, and that doesnt mean that theyre explosive, evidently...case in point...almost our entire receiving corps!...weve got plenty of good route runners, plenty with hands, plenty that will block...unfortunately not plenty that can make anyone miss in the open field...or not so open field...

oh, and i have to say, if anyone didnt know that day 1 on campus jefferson heidleburger(sp?) was an absolute ankle breaker in the open field, then they need to consider LASIK...

Also, azdick , pretty sure i didnt mention Gamboa, and im positive i dont want him at receiver lol...would actually prefer him at LB, but whatever we need to do to get him on the field defensively makes sense to me

Excellent I know you didn't, I just needed more ammunition in order to sound like a dick. I do agree that lacking a big play threat would make our offense garbage. Like you said 2 or 3 big play guys does the body good. Lets hope for some under the radar guys showing us we know nothing about the receivers on this team!

 

[AZDoc]

And another thing....why doesn't somebody run a search on how many times the word dick is used???

 

[AZDoc]

Thanks for the reply, crunch and gang, and glad you bring those freshman up because im praying theyll play this year because between henderson the transfer, and naccarato and walcott, those will be our 3 most explosive receivers it appears...hate to think atleast 2 of em cant get on the field, because we have next to zero big play guys at this point...no excuse for that...

My post about the wide receiver position being unknown right now is much more valid that Brint's saying we are over-flowing with great receivers. Even the title of his thread, about a "log-jam" should be an indicator that there are many questions about who the new starters will be. They MAY be the real deal, but we only have solid info on two of them, and neither of these two is a game-changer like Sambrano, Heidleberger, Seegers, Mariani,Talmage, Molden, Farris, et. al.

In response to case's point about zero "big play guys" and Growler's assertion there's no "game changer" on the roster, I present the following points:

a) While we're not sure what will happen under the new HC, it's obvious when looking at statistics that Pflu's theory wasn't to have ONE big play guy, but to spread the ball around. The days of 80+ receptions for one guy were a thing of the past. In 2010 the four leading receivers were Chase Reynolds (40 for 335), Jabin Sambrano (39 for 584), Antwon Moutra (36 for 600) and Sam Gratton (28 for 327). Similarly in 2011 it was Sambrano (36 for 632), Gratton (36 for 465) and Moutra (36 for 459). There's no reason to think there'll be wholesale changes with the new staff, but it's an unknown at this point.
b) Mariani is the exception rather than the rule. There's a reason he's in the NFL. In fact, outside of Mariani's 80 catches in '09 and 69 catches in '08 only twice going all the way back to 1999 do you see single seasons where we had such a "go-to" guy (2004, Heidelberger 80 for 1240) and 2001 (Molden 102 for 1414).
c) In truth, our team has generally been built around a cadre of receivers with the ball fairly evenly spread between 3 and sometimes 4 (counting RB's). In 2000 when we were really winging the ball around, our top receivers had 71, 69 and 61 receptions. In 2002 it was 51 and 50. In 2003 it was 41 and 24. In 2005 it was 50, 47 and 20. In 2006 it was 55, 51, and 41. In 2007 it was 49, 46 and 32. So we've played a LOT more "receiver by committee" than we have the one "go-to" guy like Mariani, Heidelberger or Molden. There's a REASON we remember their names.
d) And finally, with regards to the "unknown" aspect of the current crop of receivers, I leave you with this: In 2001, prior to their breakout tandem of 2002, John Talmage and Levandar Segars had a TOTAL of 1 catch for 9 yards BETWEEN them. In 2002 prior to his breakout year of 2003, John Heidelberger had 2 catches for 24 yards. Prior to his breakout year of 2008, walk-on Marc Mariani had 15 catches for 231 yards. And prior to HIS breakout year in 2009, Jabin Sambrano had a whopping 5 catches for 59 yards. For comparison sake, in 2011 Mitch Saylor had 10 catches for 110 yards.

What's it all mean? Nothing, of course. Except that there was no reason to believe Talmage, Segars, Heidelberger, Mariani or Sambrano would be game-changers in THEIR first years either. But these guys (much like Saylor, et. al.) were recruited for a REASON. Our coaching staff has a fairly decent track record over the years of bringing in some decent talent so we have a shot at competing in the Big Sky Conference. Instead of being Chicken Little and screaming the sky is falling, howsabout we all just sit back and watch with the comfort of knowing our coaches have a 15+ year track record of doing alright in this area.

Using fantastic words like that...as well as this good post...is going to make it more and more difficult to make fun of your U of Idaho education!!! :lol:

 

[AZGrizFan]

#81 Mitch Saylor - 6-5 and 210 pounds and good speed off the line of scrimmage.

#80 Sean Haynes - 6-3 and 190 pounds brings a mix you don't see at the FCS level much, size and speed. He has relied on his overall speed/athletcism

#23 Cam Warren - 5-7, 160 that can easily beat coverage by LBs or safeties because of his speed and shifty route running.

#84 Kevin Berland - 5-9, 175. In the fall I was impressed with his speed
Ryan Burke, 6-4 195. Another tall/fast WR,
Chase Naccarato, 5-8 160. FAST and dominant in Spokane football, could play as a frosh
Taylor Walcott, 6-0 175. Good blend of size/speed/potential

Yep. No speed here. :lol: :lol: :lol: You Chicken Littles slay me. :? :?

 

[AZGrizFan]

Using fantastic words like that...as well as this good post...is going to make it more and more difficult to make fun of your U of Idaho education!!! :lol:

Time for a paradigm shift, Doc.

 

[BWahlberg]

Sean Haynes, Cam Warren, and probably Bryce Carver are the three faster WRs in the group - if I could guess. I think Naccarato will really show up as a burner.

 

[IntuitiveGriz]

I'd definitely agree that Carver is faster than Gratton

We will soon be bemoaning that wasted RS year for Bryce, as we did for Jefferson H.

+1 to both of these. You can add Bagley to that list also

HELLO, how about the NFL'S JABIN SAMBRANO!! :shock:

The Griz could certainly use him this season. :thumb:

 

[Growler1]

#81 Mitch Saylor - 6-5 and 210 pounds and good speed off the line of scrimmage.

#80 Sean Haynes - 6-3 and 190 pounds brings a mix you don't see at the FCS level much, size and speed. He has relied on his overall speed/athletcism

#23 Cam Warren - 5-7, 160 that can easily beat coverage by LBs or safeties because of his speed and shifty route running.

#84 Kevin Berland - 5-9, 175. In the fall I was impressed with his speed
Ryan Burke, 6-4 195. Another tall/fast WR,
Chase Naccarato, 5-8 160. FAST and dominant in Spokane football, could play as a frosh
Taylor Walcott, 6-0 175. Good blend of size/speed/potential

Yep. No speed here. :lol: :lol: :lol: You Chicken Littles slay me. :? :?

Wow, lemming-up and think that because Brint writes the word "speed" into his descriptions of these receivers, that they are actually fast! You are way too easily duped, my friend. None of those receivers runs faster than a 4.5 forty. None are as fast as Mariani or Sambrano.

 

[Brock Landers]

What does each one of them run then?

 

[Growler1]

"Research"????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: What, he carried a pad and pen around at practice? :thumb:

Thanks for proving that you'll more than likely not contribute anything of value to this thread.

It's much much easier putting down others' opinions than putting the effort into stating your own. Or lying...

My post criticizing Brint's flowery evaluation is the most valid and accurate post in this thread. I notice that I have already been misquoted by AZgrizfan. Re-read my post, it should be quite clear to anyone with half a brain, that I never stated that we did not have some great young receivers, nor did I say that we did not have any with speed. I merely said that to label this group of UNTESTED receivers as wonderful is a stretch at best. How can anyone evaluate kids that have taken few, if any game-time snaps? These kids could be the next Mariani, or a total bust. But, Brint has no clue about that, nor does anybody else on this board.

By the way, I totally agree that anyone could see that Jefferson Heidlberger was fast as hell as a true freshman.

The real football minds on this board know that my points are valid. Way to much hype by certain posters. Makes one question whether they could be objective about anything in life!

 

[jcu27]

Sadly I agree with G1, for the most part. But I also agree with several other things posted. You all need to stop being so stubborn and take the points from both sides.