2012 Wide Receiver logjam

[mlbowl]

Typical spin job by Re-Max. An uniformed observer reading his analysis would think we have 10-12 superstar receivers on this team. As always, quantity does not equal quality. Northern Colorado and Idaho State also have 10-12 receivers on their roster with "potential"!

The reality check for UM this season is that we have only a couple of receivers who are proven commodities, and both are possession-type receivers with little down-field speed. We will not know the quality of the other receivers until the season is well underway. Is there potential in our receiving corps? Yes. But to label this a real strength before most of these kids have taken many snaps in their college careers is a stretch.

It great to be an unabashed sugar-coater, if being objective is not important to you.

Typical negativity from Growler. You must be a bundle of joy to be around!

 

[MrTitleist]

Typical spin job by Re-Max. An uniformed observer reading his analysis would think we have 10-12 superstar receivers on this team. As always, quantity does not equal quality. Northern Colorado and Idaho State also have 10-12 receivers on their roster with "potential"!

The reality check for UM this season is that we have only a couple of receivers who are proven commodities, and both are possession-type receivers with little down-field speed. We will not know the quality of the other receivers until the season is well underway. Is there potential in our receiving corps? Yes. But to label this a real strength before most of these kids have taken many snaps in their college careers is a stretch.

It great to be an unabashed sugar-coater, if being objective is not important to you.

How about instead of being a total dick, you actually offer your own opinion instead of attacking another poster who actually did some research and observation..

 

[BWahlberg]

hmmm.....we must read differently....

While the 2012 WR corps will start the season without a known WR that is the big-name star who is the main go-to guy we've potentially got quite a few that are ready to fill that role

Looking at the roster and the strengths of each as well as needed areas of improvement

:lol:

#81 Mitch Saylor -currently disappears a bit when playing in the middle or getting jammed at the line.

#80 Sean Haynes - needs to continue his consistency and for the most part has relied on his overall speed/athletcism and I haven't seen him use double-moves or head fakes much to beat his cover... yet.

#8 Sam Gratton - lacks burner speed

#23 Cam Warren - isn't much of a blocker and he obviously isn't going to be out-jumping many defenders for passes

#7 Ellis Henderson - Catching was a big issue.

#6 Brandon Maguire - an overall lack of top-speed

#27 Jake Dellaserra - Right now he lacks overall consistent play

#84 Kevin Berland - his catching needed improvement.

#85 Spencer Hale - now lacking the same skill and route running abilities as the upper ranks of the WR corps.

Lots of sugarcoating there... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Pure sugar right thurr!

 

[AZDoc]

I would like to ask a couple of questions to those in the know...if we are in a log jam a WR, Ellis Henderson has hands issues, was a 3 star CB recruit in HS, why not put him on defense to help out a perceived weaker position with an athlete? Dennard did that and may benefit. Is there a possibility he only came here because he was promised offense? I know its been discussed before but wanted updated thoughts after spring ball.

I don't profess to be one of "those in the know," but there is information about. I don't really know if there is a "hands" issue about Ellis Henderson at WR, considering his hs profile < http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/sep/01/storm-is-catching-on-skyview-football/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I mean, he was worthy enough to even get the attention of the coaching staff at MSU for instance < http://mslacat.wordpress.com/2010/05/13/bobcat-fb-recruit-ellis-henderson/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; so we all know that if MSU was recruiting him, that he must be an exceptional player considered above all others; besides, his statistical seems pretty impressive, especially likeable is his 9 INT., 2010 4A GSHL Coaches All-League Defensive POY, 24 TDs receiving, and especially his eight (8) kick/punt returns for TDs < http://gshlfootball.com/skyview-db-ellis-henderson-commits-to-university-of-hawaii" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That was a bit tongue in cheek...the report at spring ball was that he had the dropsies a bit, that's all. Sorry about that. I would love to see him be a shutdown corner.

 

[BWahlberg]

My sugar-coated WR 2-deep:

Z - Saylor / Henderson
X - Haynes / Carver
Y - Gratton / Kemp OR Warren

 

[Grisly Fan]

Have you ever noticed that certain posters on this site post the same thing, over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?

I'd rather look at the dial of a broken wrist watch -- at least is right twice a day. Can't even say that about Growler1 for an entire year.

 

[casewinter13]

Im fighting off sounding like a dick here because i really dont mean to be...but i have a serious question id love an answer to...not all, but many posters seem to wanna take all of our explosive athletes and put them on defense..."turn him into a shutdown corner" i read all too often...take a look at our receiving corps...some ok receivers there but pretty glaringly slow...how bout we keep an athlete or two for the offense?...(ideally wed be recruiting enough athletes to have them on both sides of the ball but anyway) Do we really wanna take what were by far our 2 most explosive athletes at receiver(Dennard, Henderson) and put em at corner? Dennard is a done deal and im sure hell have success there but..Any reason we dont want someone that can actually make guys miss after the catch, getting the ball? Last year, we had one receiver that was a big play threat(sambrano)...There's no reason this offense can't put three(or christ, atleast 2)receivers on the field at the same time that can make guys miss and take one to the house, whether it's a 5 yard pass or a 50 yd. pass...

 

[CrunchGriz]

cw13: That's a good point. Although it's not ideal, maybe the coaching staff is looking more closely than we know at using some of the true freshman burners to deal with the speed issue on offense. We've already seen some mention of Naccarato being looked at to contribute right off the bat (10.6 hand-held 100 meters); maybe they're also thinking of using Walcott immediately, or at least giving him a bigger chance to show he's ready to play now (10.71 electronically-timed 100 meters).

It's possible that either or both of these guys could be the home run threat we're looking for.

I think many Griz fans didn't appreciate what the Griz had in Jabin. It's understandable considering that he became the go-to 'deep threat' after MM graduated, and it's pretty hard for anyone to forget how great #80 was.

 

[Growler1]

Have you ever noticed that certain posters on this site post the same thing, over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?

Yes I do. When you read one of Brint's "analysis" of Griz players, any pedestrian fan would think that Montana could beat any FBS team in the nation, and that we are loaded with first round NFL draft picks!

The lemmings are predictably out in force. Why do pedestrian fans try make valid football observations, when the obviously lack objectivity, and can only salivate when a sugar-coated "analysis" is presented about their team, but sh*t themselves when a more objective reasoning is made???

My post about the wide receiver position being unknown right now is much more valid that Brint's saying we are over-flowing with great receivers. Even the title of his thread, about a "log-jam" should be an indicator that there are many questions about who the new starters will be. They MAY be the real deal, but we only have solid info on two of them, and neither of these two is a game-changer like Sambrano, Heidleberger, Seegers, Mariani,Talmage, Molden, Farris, et. al.

 

[Growler1]

hmmm.....we must read differently....

While the 2012 WR corps will start the season without a known WR that is the big-name star who is the main go-to guy we've potentially got quite a few that are ready to fill that role

Looking at the roster and the strengths of each as well as needed areas of improvement

:lol:

#81 Mitch Saylor -currently disappears a bit when playing in the middle or getting jammed at the line.

#80 Sean Haynes - needs to continue his consistency and for the most part has relied on his overall speed/athletcism and I haven't seen him use double-moves or head fakes much to beat his cover... yet.

#8 Sam Gratton - lacks burner speed

#23 Cam Warren - isn't much of a blocker and he obviously isn't going to be out-jumping many defenders for passes

#7 Ellis Henderson - Catching was a big issue.

#6 Brandon Maguire - an overall lack of top-speed

#27 Jake Dellaserra - Right now he lacks overall consistent play

#84 Kevin Berland - his catching needed improvement.

#85 Spencer Hale - now lacking the same skill and route running abilities as the upper ranks of the WR corps.

Lots of sugarcoating there... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Pure sugar right thurr!

These are merely his opinion! Does that make them correct? You lemmings are pathetic, and easily duped.

 

[Growler1]

Typical spin job by Re-Max. An uniformed observer reading his analysis would think we have 10-12 superstar receivers on this team. As always, quantity does not equal quality. Northern Colorado and Idaho State also have 10-12 receivers on their roster with "potential"!

The reality check for UM this season is that we have only a couple of receivers who are proven commodities, and both are possession-type receivers with little down-field speed. We will not know the quality of the other receivers until the season is well underway. Is there potential in our receiving corps? Yes. But to label this a real strength before most of these kids have taken many snaps in their college careers is a stretch.

It great to be an unabashed sugar-coater, if being objective is not important to you.

How about instead of being a total dick, you actually offer your own opinion instead of attacking another poster who actually did some research and observation..

"Research"????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: What, he carried a pad and pen around at practice? :thumb:

 

[casewinter13]

Thanks for the reply, crunch and gang, and glad you bring those freshman up because im praying theyll play this year because between henderson the transfer, and naccarato and walcott, those will be our 3 most explosive receivers it appears...hate to think atleast 2 of em cant get on the field, because we have next to zero big play guys at this point...no excuse for that...

 

[AZGrizFan]

hmmm.....we must read differently....





:lol:

#81 Mitch Saylor -currently disappears a bit when playing in the middle or getting jammed at the line.

#80 Sean Haynes - needs to continue his consistency and for the most part has relied on his overall speed/athletcism and I haven't seen him use double-moves or head fakes much to beat his cover... yet.

#8 Sam Gratton - lacks burner speed

#23 Cam Warren - isn't much of a blocker and he obviously isn't going to be out-jumping many defenders for passes

#7 Ellis Henderson - Catching was a big issue.

#6 Brandon Maguire - an overall lack of top-speed

#27 Jake Dellaserra - Right now he lacks overall consistent play

#84 Kevin Berland - his catching needed improvement.

#85 Spencer Hale - now lacking the same skill and route running abilities as the upper ranks of the WR corps.

Lots of sugarcoating there... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Pure sugar right thurr!

These are merely his opinion! Does that make them correct? You lemmings are pathetic, and easily duped.

You said he was a sugarcoater. I posted proof that he didn't sugarcoat everything. Stop changing your argument. And his opinion is just as valid as any others (gasp: including YOURS) at this point.

 

[AZDoc]

Im fighting off sounding like a dick here because i really dont mean to be...but i have a serious question id love an answer to...not all, but many posters seem to wanna take all of our explosive athletes and put them on defense..."turn him into a shutdown corner" i read all too often...take a look at our receiving corps...some ok receivers there but pretty glaringly slow...how bout we keep an athlete or two for the offense?...(ideally wed be recruiting enough athletes to have them on both sides of the ball but anyway) Do we really wanna take what were by far our 2 most explosive athletes at receiver(Dennard, Henderson) and put em at corner? Dennard is a done deal and im sure hell have success there but..Any reason we dont want someone that can actually make guys miss after the catch, getting the ball? Last year, we had one receiver that was a big play threat(sambrano)...There's no reason this offense can't put three(or christ, atleast 2)receivers on the field at the same time that can make guys miss and take one to the house, whether it's a 5 yard pass or a 50 yd. pass...

Well, dick, guess we move Gamboa to X or Z to balance that out.........hows that? MY observations were based on #1 Gamboa plays defense so that's why I suggested the safety thing #2 It was only reports about Hendersons hands, not me actually watching him, so because of his grade as a CB in HS he would be a great candidate to move to corner if needed #3 I think Dennard should've stayed on offense. (I better clarify that I'm just trying to be funny by also sounding like a dick in my repost to you since it was me that has been making some of these suggestions). That being said, I totally agree that I would love to have 2 or 3 guys that the opposing defense needs to watch out for. Big play threats in FCS are devastating and to have 2 or 3 on offense would equal "lots of points".

 

[Brock Landers]

Im fighting off sounding like a dick here because i really dont mean to be...but i have a serious question id love an answer to...not all, but many posters seem to wanna take all of our explosive athletes and put them on defense..."turn him into a shutdown corner" i read all too often...take a look at our receiving corps...some ok receivers there but pretty glaringly slow...how bout we keep an athlete or two for the offense?...(ideally wed be recruiting enough athletes to have them on both sides of the ball but anyway) Do we really wanna take what were by far our 2 most explosive athletes at receiver(Dennard, Henderson) and put em at corner? Dennard is a done deal and im sure hell have success there but..Any reason we dont want someone that can actually make guys miss after the catch, getting the ball? Last year, we had one receiver that was a big play threat(sambrano)...There's no reason this offense can't put three(or christ, atleast 2)receivers on the field at the same time that can make guys miss and take one to the house, whether it's a 5 yard pass or a 50 yd. pass...

Well, dick, guess we move Gamboa to X or Z to balance that out.........hows that? MY observations were based on #1 Gamboa plays defense so that's why I suggested the safety thing #2 It was only reports about Hendersons hands, not me actually watching him, so because of his grade as a CB in HS he would be a great candidate to move to corner if needed #3 I think Dennard should've stayed on offense. (I better clarify that I'm just trying to be funny by also sounding like a dick in my repost to you since it was me that has been making some of these suggestions). That being said, I totally agree that I would love to have 2 or 3 guys that the opposing defense needs to watch out for. Big play threats in FCS are devastating and to have 2 or 3 on offense would equal "lots of points".

I'll help the tone of your post out

 

[AZGrizFan]

Thanks for the reply, crunch and gang, and glad you bring those freshman up because im praying theyll play this year because between henderson the transfer, and naccarato and walcott, those will be our 3 most explosive receivers it appears...hate to think atleast 2 of em cant get on the field, because we have next to zero big play guys at this point...no excuse for that...

My post about the wide receiver position being unknown right now is much more valid that Brint's saying we are over-flowing with great receivers. Even the title of his thread, about a "log-jam" should be an indicator that there are many questions about who the new starters will be. They MAY be the real deal, but we only have solid info on two of them, and neither of these two is a game-changer like Sambrano, Heidleberger, Seegers, Mariani,Talmage, Molden, Farris, et. al.

In response to case's point about zero "big play guys" and Growler's assertion there's no "game changer" on the roster, I present the following points:

a) While we're not sure what will happen under the new HC, it's obvious when looking at statistics that Pflu's theory wasn't to have ONE big play guy, but to spread the ball around. The days of 80+ receptions for one guy were a thing of the past. In 2010 the four leading receivers were Chase Reynolds (40 for 335), Jabin Sambrano (39 for 584), Antwon Moutra (36 for 600) and Sam Gratton (28 for 327). Similarly in 2011 it was Sambrano (36 for 632), Gratton (36 for 465) and Moutra (36 for 459). There's no reason to think there'll be wholesale changes with the new staff, but it's an unknown at this point.
b) Mariani is the exception rather than the rule. There's a reason he's in the NFL. In fact, outside of Mariani's 80 catches in '09 and 69 catches in '08 only twice going all the way back to 1999 do you see single seasons where we had such a "go-to" guy (2004, Heidelberger 80 for 1240) and 2001 (Molden 102 for 1414).
c) In truth, our team has generally been built around a cadre of receivers with the ball fairly evenly spread between 3 and sometimes 4 (counting RB's). In 2000 when we were really winging the ball around, our top receivers had 71, 69 and 61 receptions. In 2002 it was 51 and 50. In 2003 it was 41 and 24. In 2005 it was 50, 47 and 20. In 2006 it was 55, 51, and 41. In 2007 it was 49, 46 and 32. So we've played a LOT more "receiver by committee" than we have the one "go-to" guy like Mariani, Heidelberger or Molden. There's a REASON we remember their names.
d) And finally, with regards to the "unknown" aspect of the current crop of receivers, I leave you with this: In 2001, prior to their breakout tandem of 2002, John Talmage and Levandar Segars had a TOTAL of 1 catch for 9 yards BETWEEN them. In 2002 prior to his breakout year of 2003, John Heidelberger had 2 catches for 24 yards. Prior to his breakout year of 2008, walk-on Marc Mariani had 15 catches for 231 yards. And prior to HIS breakout year in 2009, Jabin Sambrano had a whopping 5 catches for 59 yards. For comparison sake, in 2011 Mitch Saylor had 10 catches for 110 yards.

What's it all mean? Nothing, of course. Except that there was no reason to believe Talmage, Segars, Heidelberger, Mariani or Sambrano would be game-changers in THEIR first years either. But these guys (much like Saylor, et. al.) were recruited for a REASON. Our coaching staff has a fairly decent track record over the years of bringing in some decent talent so we have a shot at competing in the Big Sky Conference. Instead of being Chicken Little and screaming the sky is falling, howsabout we all just sit back and watch with the comfort of knowing our coaches have a 15+ year track record of doing alright in this area.

 

[WyomingGrizFan]

Just for a side issue being considered, I think a kickoff return tantum of Ellis Henderson and Josh Dennard to being something I'd speculate on and forsee, hopefully, as being quite a devastating rarity, even for the Griz; two potentially explosive return guys on the field at the same time.

 

[krammer]

azgrizfan, has an excellent post, regarding receivers the griz have had in the past...besides ALL teams have to replace certain team needs with new people on a yearly basis,,,i like our chances in the bsc, and would not want to trade places with anyone else in our conference...would you ??????

 

[MrTitleist]

"Research"????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: What, he carried a pad and pen around at practice? :thumb:

Thanks for proving that you'll more than likely not contribute anything of value to this thread.

 

[WyomingGrizFan]

"Research"????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: What, he carried a pad and pen around at practice? :thumb:

Thanks for proving that you'll more than likely not contribute anything of value to this thread.

+1