Why Rob Ash will not win a NC

[Ursa Major]

the bigger question is, why dpes anyone waste their good breath on poorgriz??? He is a joke and even the good MSU posters on her know it. Poorgriz knows for a fact that if an ex-griz player came on here posting about doom and gloom of the program, he would be the first one to respond, saying "see, I told ya so, Griz Nation is crumbling from the inside out" Poorgriz is without a shadow of a doubt that poster who contradicts himself so much and lies so much on this board, he can't keep track of the truth vs the madeup stuff he says.

I don't know who pissed in your corn flakes, but show me all the posts where I'm a liar? I just state my opinion

My opinion is that you are a liar, MSU is an embarrassment to the entire state, and Coach Ron Ash is a glorified nanny who looks and sounds like a complete douche. Just my opinion.

I have heard that he didn't come from a very strong family...

 

[grizcountry420]

the bigger question is, why dpes anyone waste their good breath on poorgriz??? He is a joke and even the good MSU posters on her know it. Poorgriz knows for a fact that if an ex-griz player came on here posting about doom and gloom of the program, he would be the first one to respond, saying "see, I told ya so, Griz Nation is crumbling from the inside out" Poorgriz is without a shadow of a doubt that poster who contradicts himself so much and lies so much on this board, he can't keep track of the truth vs the madeup stuff he says.

I don't know who pissed in your corn flakes, but show me all the posts where I'm a liar? I just state my opinion

My opinion is that you are a liar, MSU is an embarrassment to the entire state, and Coach Ron Ash is a glorified nanny who looks and sounds like a complete douche. Just my opinion.

Step back CDA, you've had too much!

Catsrback76....You're shit is played out!

...........Yawn

 

[CDAGRIZ]

the bigger question is, why dpes anyone waste their good breath on poorgriz??? He is a joke and even the good MSU posters on her know it. Poorgriz knows for a fact that if an ex-griz player came on here posting about doom and gloom of the program, he would be the first one to respond, saying "see, I told ya so, Griz Nation is crumbling from the inside out" Poorgriz is without a shadow of a doubt that poster who contradicts himself so much and lies so much on this board, he can't keep track of the truth vs the madeup stuff he says.

I don't know who pissed in your corn flakes, but show me all the posts where I'm a liar? I just state my opinion

My opinion is that you are a liar, MSU is an embarrassment to the entire state, and Coach Ron Ash is a glorified nanny who looks and sounds like a complete douche. Just my opinion.

I have heard that he didn't come from a very strong family...

True. Bad kid, weak family.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

uote="PlayerRep"]

The 2012 team didn't lose 2 or 3 game because of Delaney's coaching errors. One game may have been lost because of a horrible call on special teams (punt defense). Feel free to identify and explain the other 1 or 2 you refer too. Had JJ been the qb in 2012, UM would have won the game with the bad special teams call too.

Your right, it was closer to 4-5 games. Your hypotheticals all deal with ifs that couldn't happen. Mine was based on what if MD hadn't so badly schemed and managed games. Things only in MD's control. Like taking a team with serious distracting issues and changing the offense from one the players knew to a new system. From a system MD and the players knew, one TM could have better thrived in, to one they had little experience or confidence. It wasn't the right time and that decision lays with MD. I recognize what MD is very good at and where he is over his head. Your" insider" status clouds against an unbiased review or view. I accept that about you. So since you're apparently a fan of inane hypotheticals, then its likely, if Pflu hadn't been fired, the 2012 team would have been 9-2 or 10-1, without JJ.

Okay, list the 4-5 games that Delaney coaching mistakes cost UM the game in 2012. Your (incorrect) statements just plain wrong--and silly. JJ was far more important to the 2012 team than any coach. Jeez, ask the players. Ask the asst coaches. Ask someone who understands football.

Meaningless canned stale reply. Your shtick doesn't work here. Some folks who do know current players and coaches intimately, also know they wouldn't tell a bullhorn gossip "insider" their true opinions about the man who holds their playing and coaching careers in his hands.

Now, others can play your game too: tell us which of the 5 games they did win were won on brilliant MD decisions, that would have been lost without the Mickster. Feel free to consult someone who understands football.

Happy to list the games UM would have won with JJ in 2012. NAU (UM scored 7 in the 2d half, after leading 24-14 at halftime), EWU (UM would have had a bigger cushion with JJ, so the problems at end wouldn't have been enough for EWU), SU (UM scored 3 points in 2d half, after leading at halftime), UND (UM didn't score in the last 21 minutes), MSU (UM outplayed MSU in this game). In most of these games, the UM offense wilted as the game progressed. With the offense unable to even get first downs, the UM defense was put under huge pressure and eventually could not hold the opponents later in the games. These things happen. But much of these would have turned out better for UM with JJ at the helm, in my view--as well as the view of many others.[/quote]

Objection: Non responsive!
Sustained! The witness will answer the question asked.

 

[getgrizzy]

uote="PlayerRep"]

Your right, it was closer to 4-5 games. Your hypotheticals all deal with ifs that couldn't happen. Mine was based on what if MD hadn't so badly schemed and managed games. Things only in MD's control. Like taking a team with serious distracting issues and changing the offense from one the players knew to a new system. From a system MD and the players knew, one TM could have better thrived in, to one they had little experience or confidence. It wasn't the right time and that decision lays with MD. I recognize what MD is very good at and where he is over his head. Your" insider" status clouds against an unbiased review or view. I accept that about you. So since you're apparently a fan of inane hypotheticals, then its likely, if Pflu hadn't been fired, the 2012 team would have been 9-2 or 10-1, without JJ.

Okay, list the 4-5 games that Delaney coaching mistakes cost UM the game in 2012. Your (incorrect) statements just plain wrong--and silly. JJ was far more important to the 2012 team than any coach. Jeez, ask the players. Ask the asst coaches. Ask someone who understands football.

Meaningless canned stale reply. Your shtick doesn't work here. Some folks who do know current players and coaches intimately, also know they wouldn't tell a bullhorn gossip "insider" their true opinions about the man who holds their playing and coaching careers in his hands.

Now, others can play your game too: tell us which of the 5 games they did win were won on brilliant MD decisions, that would have been lost without the Mickster. Feel free to consult someone who understands football.

Happy to list the games UM would have won with JJ in 2012. NAU (UM scored 7 in the 2d half, after leading 24-14 at halftime), EWU (UM would have had a bigger cushion with JJ, so the problems at end wouldn't have been enough for EWU), SU (UM scored 3 points in 2d half, after leading at halftime), UND (UM didn't score in the last 21 minutes), MSU (UM outplayed MSU in this game). In most of these games, the UM offense wilted as the game progressed. With the offense unable to even get first downs, the UM defense was put under huge pressure and eventually could not hold the opponents later in the games. These things happen. But much of these would have turned out better for UM with JJ at the helm, in my view--as well as the view of many others.

Objection: Non responsive!
Sustained! The witness will answer the question asked.[/quote]
the main difference between 2012 and 2013 was the defense and special teams coming up with huge plays to turn losses into wins, not j.j. it also helped playing a.s.u. as they were rebuilding, m.s.u. when they were injury depleted, and not having to play southern utah. we played three solid teams all year and went 0-3. statistically the 2012 and 2013 teams were very similar.

 

[George Ferguson]

Poorgriz, actually, I totally agree with you and think it's hilarious when MSU fans rag on Ash. He IS indeed a very good football coach. Maybe the best MSU has ever had. He's also a REALLY GOOD PERSON. He's engaging and very interesting to speak with. I had the pleasure of playing golf at the MCA the summer after his first season and even though I was decked out in Griz gear, he was probably one of the coolest and most engaging head coaches I've spoke to in all my years being involved with the Griz-Cat rivalry.

I think what bothers MSU fans the most about Coach Ash is, No. 1 he doesn't hate the Grizzlies with his heart. I can tell you for a FACT he definitely doesn't hate the Griz players that are trashed on the MOST on BN. For example, I know FOR a FACT, that outside of Missoula and Griz Nation, NO ONE has more respect for Jordan Tripp than Rob Ash. And since Cat fans are convinced Tripp is a bad guy, I bet that little tidbit really chaps their asses lol.

 

[PlayerRep]

uote="PlayerRep"]

Okay, list the 4-5 games that Delaney coaching mistakes cost UM the game in 2012. Your (incorrect) statements just plain wrong--and silly. JJ was far more important to the 2012 team than any coach. Jeez, ask the players. Ask the asst coaches. Ask someone who understands football.

Meaningless canned stale reply. Your shtick doesn't work here. Some folks who do know current players and coaches intimately, also know they wouldn't tell a bullhorn gossip "insider" their true opinions about the man who holds their playing and coaching careers in his hands.

Now, others can play your game too: tell us which of the 5 games they did win were won on brilliant MD decisions, that would have been lost without the Mickster. Feel free to consult someone who understands football.

Happy to list the games UM would have won with JJ in 2012. NAU (UM scored 7 in the 2d half, after leading 24-14 at halftime), EWU (UM would have had a bigger cushion with JJ, so the problems at end wouldn't have been enough for EWU), SU (UM scored 3 points in 2d half, after leading at halftime), UND (UM didn't score in the last 21 minutes), MSU (UM outplayed MSU in this game). In most of these games, the UM offense wilted as the game progressed. With the offense unable to even get first downs, the UM defense was put under huge pressure and eventually could not hold the opponents later in the games. These things happen. But much of these would have turned out better for UM with JJ at the helm, in my view--as well as the view of many others.

Objection: Non responsive!
Sustained! The witness will answer the question asked.

the main difference between 2012 and 2013 was the defense and special teams coming up with huge plays to turn losses into wins, not j.j. it also helped playing a.s.u. as they were rebuilding, m.s.u. when they were injury depleted, and not having to play southern utah. we played three solid teams all year and went 0-3. statistically the 2012 and 2013 teams were very similar.[/quote]

Wrong. The difference was not the defense; it was JJ. In 2013, the defense was not under tremendous pressure in the second half because the offense couldn't get a first down, sustain a drive or score points. That made the defense better. Also, in 2013, the offense was more consistent and scoring more points when needed.

You truly never played the game, and don't have any understanding of the game. I have always known that from your occasional substantive posts on defense, but now it's even more clear.

 

[pussycatkillerz]

Another reason little brother probably will never win a NC is because they focus so much attention on one game...you gotta love their "BTG" motto :lol:

I'll take our outlook:
No pussy BTC
It's FTC, and it's just another game

[youtube]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4O0sHE30VlE[/youtube]

 

[Catsrback76]

I don't know who pissed in your corn flakes, but show me all the posts where I'm a liar? I just state my opinion

My opinion is that you are a liar, MSU is an embarrassment to the entire state, and Coach Ron Ash is a glorified nanny who looks and sounds like a complete douche. Just my opinion.

Step back CDA, you've had too much!

Catsrback76....You're shit is played out!

...........Yawn

EXCELLENT, at least one of you got my point!

 

[getgrizzy]

Meaningless canned stale reply. Your shtick doesn't work here. Some folks who do know current players and coaches intimately, also know they wouldn't tell a bullhorn gossip "insider" their true opinions about the man who holds their playing and coaching careers in his hands.

Now, others can play your game too: tell us which of the 5 games they did win were won on brilliant MD decisions, that would have been lost without the Mickster. Feel free to consult someone who understands football.

Happy to list the games UM would have won with JJ in 2012. NAU (UM scored 7 in the 2d half, after leading 24-14 at halftime), EWU (UM would have had a bigger cushion with JJ, so the problems at end wouldn't have been enough for EWU), SU (UM scored 3 points in 2d half, after leading at halftime), UND (UM didn't score in the last 21 minutes), MSU (UM outplayed MSU in this game). In most of these games, the UM offense wilted as the game progressed. With the offense unable to even get first downs, the UM defense was put under huge pressure and eventually could not hold the opponents later in the games. These things happen. But much of these would have turned out better for UM with JJ at the helm, in my view--as well as the view of many others.

Objection: Non responsive!
Sustained! The witness will answer the question asked.

the main difference between 2012 and 2013 was the defense and special teams coming up with huge plays to turn losses into wins, not j.j. it also helped playing a.s.u. as they were rebuilding, m.s.u. when they were injury depleted, and not having to play southern utah. we played three solid teams all year and went 0-3. statistically the 2012 and 2013 teams were very similar.

Wrong. The difference was not the defense; it was JJ. In 2013, the defense was not under tremendous pressure in the second half because the offense couldn't get a first down, sustain a drive or score points. That made the defense better. Also, in 2013, the offense was more consistent and scoring more points when needed.

You truly never played the game, and don't have any understanding of the game. I have always known that from your occasional substantive posts on defense, but now it's even more clear.[/quote]


didn't say the d was the only difference. i said the d and special teams were the main difference. those two units made the wins vs poly and sodak possible. we would be 8-4, not 10-2. in 2012 our d and special teams cost us the e.w.u., n.a.u. and nodak games, instead of 5-6 we go 8-3.
we averaged 452.3 yards in offense per game in 2012; 453.1 in 2013
we gave up an average of 380.9 yards of total defense per game in 2012; 381.0 in 2013
that's almost identical. to say one player made the difference says you really don't know much about the game of football. j.j. being out didn't cause kaufman to recover the onside kick or allow hardin to gain 333 yards and hansen 660 passing or bauman 253 rushing. ya know, cuz he don't play d or special teams.
j.j. didn't block the game sealing f.g. vs poly and he didn't return a fumble for a score and a kickoff for a score against sodak.
so we really should've been 8-4 with j.j. and 8-3 without him had the d and special teams been remotely consistent those two years when the chips were down.

 

[PlayerRep]

Happy to list the games UM would have won with JJ in 2012. NAU (UM scored 7 in the 2d half, after leading 24-14 at halftime), EWU (UM would have had a bigger cushion with JJ, so the problems at end wouldn't have been enough for EWU), SU (UM scored 3 points in 2d half, after leading at halftime), UND (UM didn't score in the last 21 minutes), MSU (UM outplayed MSU in this game). In most of these games, the UM offense wilted as the game progressed. With the offense unable to even get first downs, the UM defense was put under huge pressure and eventually could not hold the opponents later in the games. These things happen. But much of these would have turned out better for UM with JJ at the helm, in my view--as well as the view of many others.

Objection: Non responsive!
Sustained! The witness will answer the question asked.

the main difference between 2012 and 2013 was the defense and special teams coming up with huge plays to turn losses into wins, not j.j. it also helped playing a.s.u. as they were rebuilding, m.s.u. when they were injury depleted, and not having to play southern utah. we played three solid teams all year and went 0-3. statistically the 2012 and 2013 teams were very similar.

Wrong. The difference was not the defense; it was JJ. In 2013, the defense was not under tremendous pressure in the second half because the offense couldn't get a first down, sustain a drive or score points. That made the defense better. Also, in 2013, the offense was more consistent and scoring more points when needed.

You truly never played the game, and don't have any understanding of the game. I have always known that from your occasional substantive posts on defense, but now it's even more clear.

didn't say the d was the only difference. i said the d and special teams were the main difference. those two units made the wins vs poly and sodak possible. we would be 8-4, not 10-2. in 2012 our d and special teams cost us the e.w.u., n.a.u. and nodak games, instead of 5-6 we go 8-3.
we averaged 452.3 yards in offense per game in 2012; 453.1 in 2013
we gave up an average of 380.9 yards of total defense per game in 2012; 381.0 in 2013
that's almost identical. to say one player made the difference says you really don't know much about the game of football. j.j. being out didn't cause kaufman to recover the onside kick or allow hardin to gain 333 yards and hansen 660 passing or bauman 253 rushing. ya know, cuz he don't play d or special teams.
j.j. didn't block the game sealing f.g. vs poly and he didn't return a fumble for a score and a kickoff for a score against sodak.
so we really should've been 8-4 with j.j. and 8-3 without him had the d and special teams been remotely consistent those two years when the chips were down.[/quote]

My info came directly from players and coaches on the 2012. I'll take thoses opinions over yours.

 

[DuCharme]

Because an ex player posted a bunch of stuff about conflicts with the coach on a message board? Wow, I guess I'll brace myself for falling back to a shitty program that goes 0-11. There is no "predicament"... but go ahead and keep thinking that. From my view, your guys are in more of a predicament than the Cats. I'm very happy with who our HC is... and I'm very happy with who is driving your ship as well.

Never again can I mention that you were one of the very few Cat fans to never make a stupid post on eGriz.

 

[getgrizzy]

Objection: Non responsive!
Sustained! The witness will answer the question asked.

the main difference between 2012 and 2013 was the defense and special teams coming up with huge plays to turn losses into wins, not j.j. it also helped playing a.s.u. as they were rebuilding, m.s.u. when they were injury depleted, and not having to play southern utah. we played three solid teams all year and went 0-3. statistically the 2012 and 2013 teams were very similar.

Wrong. The difference was not the defense; it was JJ. In 2013, the defense was not under tremendous pressure in the second half because the offense couldn't get a first down, sustain a drive or score points. That made the defense better. Also, in 2013, the offense was more consistent and scoring more points when needed.

You truly never played the game, and don't have any understanding of the game. I have always known that from your occasional substantive posts on defense, but now it's even more clear.

didn't say the d was the only difference. i said the d and special teams were the main difference. those two units made the wins vs poly and sodak possible. we would be 8-4, not 10-2. in 2012 our d and special teams cost us the e.w.u., n.a.u. and nodak games, instead of 5-6 we go 8-3.
we averaged 452.3 yards in offense per game in 2012; 453.1 in 2013
we gave up an average of 380.9 yards of total defense per game in 2012; 381.0 in 2013
that's almost identical. to say one player made the difference says you really don't know much about the game of football. j.j. being out didn't cause kaufman to recover the onside kick or allow hardin to gain 333 yards and hansen 660 passing or bauman 253 rushing. ya know, cuz he don't play d or special teams.
j.j. didn't block the game sealing f.g. vs poly and he didn't return a fumble for a score and a kickoff for a score against sodak.
so we really should've been 8-4 with j.j. and 8-3 without him had the d and special teams been remotely consistent those two years when the chips were down.

My info came directly from players and coaches on the 2012. I'll take thoses opinions over yours.[/quote]
they needed an excuse and they took the low hanging fruit knowing everyone would be satisfied. but even you can't deny that everything i just said was spot-on. if there was a remote chance that it wasn't spot on you would've tried to point it out.

 

[PlayerRep]

the main difference between 2012 and 2013 was the defense and special teams coming up with huge plays to turn losses into wins, not j.j. it also helped playing a.s.u. as they were rebuilding, m.s.u. when they were injury depleted, and not having to play southern utah. we played three solid teams all year and went 0-3. statistically the 2012 and 2013 teams were very similar.

Wrong. The difference was not the defense; it was JJ. In 2013, the defense was not under tremendous pressure in the second half because the offense couldn't get a first down, sustain a drive or score points. That made the defense better. Also, in 2013, the offense was more consistent and scoring more points when needed.

You truly never played the game, and don't have any understanding of the game. I have always known that from your occasional substantive posts on defense, but now it's even more clear.

didn't say the d was the only difference. i said the d and special teams were the main difference. those two units made the wins vs poly and sodak possible. we would be 8-4, not 10-2. in 2012 our d and special teams cost us the e.w.u., n.a.u. and nodak games, instead of 5-6 we go 8-3.
we averaged 452.3 yards in offense per game in 2012; 453.1 in 2013
we gave up an average of 380.9 yards of total defense per game in 2012; 381.0 in 2013
that's almost identical. to say one player made the difference says you really don't know much about the game of football. j.j. being out didn't cause kaufman to recover the onside kick or allow hardin to gain 333 yards and hansen 660 passing or bauman 253 rushing. ya know, cuz he don't play d or special teams.
j.j. didn't block the game sealing f.g. vs poly and he didn't return a fumble for a score and a kickoff for a score against sodak.
so we really should've been 8-4 with j.j. and 8-3 without him had the d and special teams been remotely consistent those two years when the chips were down.

My info came directly from players and coaches on the 2012. I'll take thoses opinions over yours.

they needed an excuse and they took the low hanging fruit knowing everyone would be satisfied. but even you can't deny that everything i just said was spot-on. if there was a remote chance that it wasn't spot on you would've tried to point it out.[/quote]

All of your general points are dead wrong. The impact of not having JJ was said by some either pre-season or just as the season was starting, by the way.

 

[getgrizzy]

Wrong. The difference was not the defense; it was JJ. In 2013, the defense was not under tremendous pressure in the second half because the offense couldn't get a first down, sustain a drive or score points. That made the defense better. Also, in 2013, the offense was more consistent and scoring more points when needed.

You truly never played the game, and don't have any understanding of the game. I have always known that from your occasional substantive posts on defense, but now it's even more clear.

didn't say the d was the only difference. i said the d and special teams were the main difference. those two units made the wins vs poly and sodak possible. we would be 8-4, not 10-2. in 2012 our d and special teams cost us the e.w.u., n.a.u. and nodak games, instead of 5-6 we go 8-3.
we averaged 452.3 yards in offense per game in 2012; 453.1 in 2013
we gave up an average of 380.9 yards of total defense per game in 2012; 381.0 in 2013
that's almost identical. to say one player made the difference says you really don't know much about the game of football. j.j. being out didn't cause kaufman to recover the onside kick or allow hardin to gain 333 yards and hansen 660 passing or bauman 253 rushing. ya know, cuz he don't play d or special teams.
j.j. didn't block the game sealing f.g. vs poly and he didn't return a fumble for a score and a kickoff for a score against sodak.
so we really should've been 8-4 with j.j. and 8-3 without him had the d and special teams been remotely consistent those two years when the chips were down.

My info came directly from players and coaches on the 2012. I'll take thoses opinions over yours.

they needed an excuse and they took the low hanging fruit knowing everyone would be satisfied. but even you can't deny that everything i just said was spot-on. if there was a remote chance that it wasn't spot on you would've tried to point it out.

All of your general points are dead wrong. The impact of not having JJ was said by some either pre-season or just as the season was starting, by the way.[/quote]
that's a lame comeback. set aside the dumb luck plays that went against us in 2012 and for us in 2013, then look at our stats. virtually the same team. gain we made at q.b. is offset by decrease in rushing.

 

[uofmman1122]

We scored 66 TDs in 2013 vs. 44 in 2012.

Yeah, I'm sure it was just defense and special teams. Nothing to do with JJ.

Also, the quote function isn't that hard, you guys.

 

[getgrizzy]

We scored 66 TDs in 2013 vs. 44 in 2012.

Yeah, I'm sure it was just defense and special teams. Nothing to do with JJ.

Also, the quote function isn't that hard, you guys.

we also played two more games and the d and special teams either scored or made plays that led to 13 tds.

 

[PlayerRep]

We scored 66 TDs in 2013 vs. 44 in 2012.

Yeah, I'm sure it was just defense and special teams. Nothing to do with JJ.

Also, the quote function isn't that hard, you guys.

we also played two more games and the d and special teams either scored or made plays that led to 13 tds.

Are you telling us that 2 extra games resulted in 22 additional TDs?

Okay, let's see your list of those 13 TD's.

UM had 1 special team TD in 2013 and 1 special team TD in 2012. UM had no interception and 2 fumble returns TDs in 2013, and had 1 interception return TD and 1 fumble return TD in 2012. Thus, 3 in each year.

 

[getgrizzy]

We scored 66 TDs in 2013 vs. 44 in 2012.

Yeah, I'm sure it was just defense and special teams. Nothing to do with JJ.

Also, the quote function isn't that hard, you guys.

we also played two more games and the d and special teams either scored or made plays that led to 13 tds.

Are you telling us that 2 extra games resulted in 22 additional TDs?

Okay, let's see your list of those 13 TD's.

UM had 1 special team TD in 2013 and 1 special team TD in 2012. UM had no interception and 2 fumble returns TDs in 2013, and had 1 interception return TD and 1 fumble return TD in 2012. Thus, 3 in each year.

no im saying it doesn't really matter what the stats say. we still lost three junk games in 2012 and won two junk in 2013. had it not been for that we're 8-3 in 2013, 8-4 in 2014. j.j. didn't run a kickoff and fumble back for tds vs sodak and he didn't block the fg vs poly. he couldn't stop kaufman from recovering onside kick or tackle bauman or stop nodak passing for 660 yards and he couldn't make all the fgs we missed vs m.s.u.

 

[PlayerRep]

We scored 66 TDs in 2013 vs. 44 in 2012.

Yeah, I'm sure it was just defense and special teams. Nothing to do with JJ.

Also, the quote function isn't that hard, you guys.

we also played two more games and the d and special teams either scored or made plays that led to 13 tds.

Are you telling us that 2 extra games resulted in 22 additional TDs?

Okay, let's see your list of those 13 TD's.

UM had 1 special team TD in 2013 and 1 special team TD in 2012. UM had no interception and 2 fumble returns TDs in 2013, and had 1 interception return TD and 1 fumble return TD in 2012. Thus, 3 in each year.

no im saying it doesn't really matter what the stats say. we still lost three junk games in 2012 and won two junk in 2013. had it not been for that we're 8-3 in 2013, 8-4 in 2014. j.j. didn't run a kickoff and fumble back for tds vs sodak and he didn't block the fg vs poly. he couldn't stop kaufman from recovering onside kick or tackle bauman or stop nodak passing for 660 yards and he couldn't make all the fgs we missed vs m.s.u.

The point is that JJ would have helped the team score more TD's in 2012 and provided more offense and first downs in the second half of the some of the games that were lost--so that the team would have been ahead more and able to keep the defense from getting worn out as much as they did. The plays you refer to wouldn't have mattered, had UM been ahead more, scoring more later in games, and keeping the defense off the field. This was obvious to people who followed the games closely (and understand the game). Lots of people were making these observations in real time as the season was progressing in 2012.

My more detailed analysis is in progress.