Why Rob Ash will not win a NC

[getgrizzy]

we also played two more games and the d and special teams either scored or made plays that led to 13 tds.

Are you telling us that 2 extra games resulted in 22 additional TDs?

Okay, let's see your list of those 13 TD's.

UM had 1 special team TD in 2013 and 1 special team TD in 2012. UM had no interception and 2 fumble returns TDs in 2013, and had 1 interception return TD and 1 fumble return TD in 2012. Thus, 3 in each year.

no im saying it doesn't really matter what the stats say. we still lost three junk games in 2012 and won two junk in 2013. had it not been for that we're 8-3 in 2013, 8-4 in 2014. j.j. didn't run a kickoff and fumble back for tds vs sodak and he didn't block the fg vs poly. he couldn't stop kaufman from recovering onside kick or tackle bauman or stop nodak passing for 660 yards and he couldn't make all the fgs we missed vs m.s.u.

The point is that JJ would have helped the team score more TD's in 2012 and provided more offense and first downs in the second half of the some of the games that were lost--so that the team would have been ahead more and able to keep the defense from getting worn out as much as they did. The plays you refer to wouldn't have mattered, had UM been ahead more, scoring more later in games, and keeping the defense off the field. This was obvious to people who followed the games closely (and understand the game). Lots of people were making these observations in real time as the season was progressing in 2012.

My more detailed analysis is in progress.

that "might" explain 2012, but does nothing for your 2013 argument.

 

[PlayerRep]

Are you telling us that 2 extra games resulted in 22 additional TDs?

Okay, let's see your list of those 13 TD's.

UM had 1 special team TD in 2013 and 1 special team TD in 2012. UM had no interception and 2 fumble returns TDs in 2013, and had 1 interception return TD and 1 fumble return TD in 2012. Thus, 3 in each year.

no im saying it doesn't really matter what the stats say. we still lost three junk games in 2012 and won two junk in 2013. had it not been for that we're 8-3 in 2013, 8-4 in 2014. j.j. didn't run a kickoff and fumble back for tds vs sodak and he didn't block the fg vs poly. he couldn't stop kaufman from recovering onside kick or tackle bauman or stop nodak passing for 660 yards and he couldn't make all the fgs we missed vs m.s.u.

The point is that JJ would have helped the team score more TD's in 2012 and provided more offense and first downs in the second half of the some of the games that were lost--so that the team would have been ahead more and able to keep the defense from getting worn out as much as they did. The plays you refer to wouldn't have mattered, had UM been ahead more, scoring more later in games, and keeping the defense off the field. This was obvious to people who followed the games closely (and understand the game). Lots of people were making these observations in real time as the season was progressing in 2012.

My more detailed analysis is in progress.

that "might" explain 2012, but does nothing for your 2013 argument.

22 additional TDs in 2013, and the same number of special teams plus interception/fumble returns TDs in both years, supports my observation--not yours. I'll have my full report later in the week.

 

[Ursa Major]

no im saying it doesn't really matter what the stats say. we still lost three junk games in 2012 and won two junk in 2013. had it not been for that we're 8-3 in 2013, 8-4 in 2014. j.j. didn't run a kickoff and fumble back for tds vs sodak and he didn't block the fg vs poly. he couldn't stop kaufman from recovering onside kick or tackle bauman or stop nodak passing for 660 yards and he couldn't make all the fgs we missed vs m.s.u.

The point is that JJ would have helped the team score more TD's in 2012 and provided more offense and first downs in the second half of the some of the games that were lost--so that the team would have been ahead more and able to keep the defense from getting worn out as much as they did. The plays you refer to wouldn't have mattered, had UM been ahead more, scoring more later in games, and keeping the defense off the field. This was obvious to people who followed the games closely (and understand the game). Lots of people were making these observations in real time as the season was progressing in 2012.

My more detailed analysis is in progress.

that "might" explain 2012, but does nothing for your 2013 argument.

22 additional TDs in 2013, and the same number of special teams plus interception/fumble returns TDs in both years, supports my observation--not yours. I'll have my full report later in the week.

Can we just call it a tie and argue about something else?

 

[grizcountry420]

The point is that JJ would have helped the team score more TD's in 2012 and provided more offense and first downs in the second half of the some of the games that were lost--so that the team would have been ahead more and able to keep the defense from getting worn out as much as they did. The plays you refer to wouldn't have mattered, had UM been ahead more, scoring more later in games, and keeping the defense off the field. This was obvious to people who followed the games closely (and understand the game). Lots of people were making these observations in real time as the season was progressing in 2012.

My more detailed analysis is in progress.

that "might" explain 2012, but does nothing for your 2013 argument.

22 additional TDs in 2013, and the same number of special teams plus interception/fumble returns TDs in both years, supports my observation--not yours. I'll have my full report later in the week.

Can we just call it a tie and argue about something else?

Ive came to the conclusion that PR squats before he pees..

 

[PlayerRep]

The point is that JJ would have helped the team score more TD's in 2012 and provided more offense and first downs in the second half of the some of the games that were lost--so that the team would have been ahead more and able to keep the defense from getting worn out as much as they did. The plays you refer to wouldn't have mattered, had UM been ahead more, scoring more later in games, and keeping the defense off the field. This was obvious to people who followed the games closely (and understand the game). Lots of people were making these observations in real time as the season was progressing in 2012.

My more detailed analysis is in progress.

that "might" explain 2012, but does nothing for your 2013 argument.

22 additional TDs in 2013, and the same number of special teams plus interception/fumble returns TDs in both years, supports my observation--not yours. I'll have my full report later in the week.

Can we just call it a tie and argue about something else?

No way. I sometimes don't back down when I'm wrong--and never back down when I'm right, like in this situation. My detailed analysis will be out later this week. I will expect you to be the first to say you agree with me. You seem to have a head on your shoulders, as opposed to the yahoos like 420, who doesn't know when end of a football is which.

 

[grizcountry420]

that "might" explain 2012, but does nothing for your 2013 argument.

22 additional TDs in 2013, and the same number of special teams plus interception/fumble returns TDs in both years, supports my observation--not yours. I'll have my full report later in the week.

Can we just call it a tie and argue about something else?

No way. I sometimes don't back down when I'm wrong--and never back down when I'm right, like in this situation. My detailed analysis will be out later this week. I will expect you to be the first to say you agree with me. You seem to have a head on your shoulders, as opposed to the yahoos like 420, who doesn't know when end of a football is which.

Like i said... i could run circles around your old ass.

 

[PlayerRep]

22 additional TDs in 2013, and the same number of special teams plus interception/fumble returns TDs in both years, supports my observation--not yours. I'll have my full report later in the week.

Can we just call it a tie and argue about something else?

No way. I sometimes don't back down when I'm wrong--and never back down when I'm right, like in this situation. My detailed analysis will be out later this week. I will expect you to be the first to say you agree with me. You seem to have a head on your shoulders, as opposed to the yahoos like 420, who doesn't know when end of a football is which.

Like i said... i could run circles around your old ass.

Not in anything of substance or importance. You have loser written all over you.

 

[getgrizzy]

no im saying it doesn't really matter what the stats say. we still lost three junk games in 2012 and won two junk in 2013. had it not been for that we're 8-3 in 2013, 8-4 in 2014. j.j. didn't run a kickoff and fumble back for tds vs sodak and he didn't block the fg vs poly. he couldn't stop kaufman from recovering onside kick or tackle bauman or stop nodak passing for 660 yards and he couldn't make all the fgs we missed vs m.s.u.

The point is that JJ would have helped the team score more TD's in 2012 and provided more offense and first downs in the second half of the some of the games that were lost--so that the team would have been ahead more and able to keep the defense from getting worn out as much as they did. The plays you refer to wouldn't have mattered, had UM been ahead more, scoring more later in games, and keeping the defense off the field. This was obvious to people who followed the games closely (and understand the game). Lots of people were making these observations in real time as the season was progressing in 2012.

My more detailed analysis is in progress.

that "might" explain 2012, but does nothing for your 2013 argument.

22 additional TDs in 2013, and the same number of special teams plus interception/fumble returns TDs in both years, supports my observation--not yours. I'll have my full report later in the week.

you've merely reframed the discussion to support your argument. you've done nothing to discredit the way those games played out and the lack of effect j.j. would have on those games. the number of tds scored isn't necessarily a determining factor in the outcome of a season. there have many instances where the losing team of a series of games has scored more runs, points, tds.

the bottom line as ive consistently stated throughout the thread is that we've had a high number of games who's outcomes were decided in rare fashion the past two seasons. it's been pure coincidence that all three broke against us in 2012 and then two broke our way in 2013. j.j. had no factor in any of them. in fact the sodak win was his worst game of the year and he was probably having a net negative impact yet we won.

 

[grizcountry420]

No way. I sometimes don't back down when I'm wrong--and never back down when I'm right, like in this situation. My detailed analysis will be out later this week. I will expect you to be the first to say you agree with me. You seem to have a head on your shoulders, as opposed to the yahoos like 420, who doesn't know when end of a football is which.

Like i said... i could run circles around your old ass.

Not in anything of substance or importance. You have loser written all over you.

Says the...............

 

[PlayerRep]

The point is that JJ would have helped the team score more TD's in 2012 and provided more offense and first downs in the second half of the some of the games that were lost--so that the team would have been ahead more and able to keep the defense from getting worn out as much as they did. The plays you refer to wouldn't have mattered, had UM been ahead more, scoring more later in games, and keeping the defense off the field. This was obvious to people who followed the games closely (and understand the game). Lots of people were making these observations in real time as the season was progressing in 2012.

My more detailed analysis is in progress.

that "might" explain 2012, but does nothing for your 2013 argument.

22 additional TDs in 2013, and the same number of special teams plus interception/fumble returns TDs in both years, supports my observation--not yours. I'll have my full report later in the week.

you've merely reframed the discussion to support your argument. you've done nothing to discredit the way those games played out and the lack of effect j.j. would have on those games. the number of tds scored isn't necessarily a determining factor in the outcome of a season. there have many instances where the losing team of a series of games has scored more runs, points, tds.

the bottom line as ive consistently stated throughout the thread is that we've had a high number of games who's outcomes were decided in rare fashion the past two seasons. it's been pure coincidence that all three broke against us in 2012 and then two broke our way in 2013. j.j. had no factor in any of them. in fact the sodak win was his worst game of the year and he was probably having a net negative impact yet we won.

You don't seem to understand or want to admit that a great qb (especially compared to no experience at qb) will cause his team to be ahead by more points, to get more FDs later in the game (and give the defense more rest and take the pressure off them, and be able to score more later in the game if needed. As a result, big plays like you want to emphasize don't or won't matter as much.

Also, you don't seem to understand that big plays often occur in most seasons. That's the nature of competitive football. In addition, emphasizing a dramatic blocked FG at the end of a game over a dropped pass for TD earlier in the game, is not the way to analyze a game. Both plays likely had similar impact on the game.

Views like this of yours are what causes me to believe you never played the game and don't understand the game. While some of your views like this are debatable, I find many of them to be laughable. If you want to discuss/debate football, you are, of course, welcome to your views. However, as the discussion progresses, I generally don't believe in ribbons for participation.

 

[Mousegriz]

I can't figure out "when end is which" in this argument.

 

[getgrizzy]

that "might" explain 2012, but does nothing for your 2013 argument.

22 additional TDs in 2013, and the same number of special teams plus interception/fumble returns TDs in both years, supports my observation--not yours. I'll have my full report later in the week.

you've merely reframed the discussion to support your argument. you've done nothing to discredit the way those games played out and the lack of effect j.j. would have on those games. the number of tds scored isn't necessarily a determining factor in the outcome of a season. there have many instances where the losing team of a series of games has scored more runs, points, tds.

the bottom line as ive consistently stated throughout the thread is that we've had a high number of games who's outcomes were decided in rare fashion the past two seasons. it's been pure coincidence that all three broke against us in 2012 and then two broke our way in 2013. j.j. had no factor in any of them. in fact the sodak win was his worst game of the year and he was probably having a net negative impact yet we won.

You don't seem to understand or want to admit that a great qb (especially compared to no experience at qb) will cause his team to be ahead by more points, to get more FDs later in the game (and give the defense more rest and take the pressure off them, and be able to score more later in the game if needed. As a result, big plays like you want to emphasize don't or won't matter as much.

Also, you don't seem to understand that big plays often occur in most seasons. That's the nature of competitive football. In addition, emphasizing a dramatic blocked FG at the end of a game over a dropped pass for TD earlier in the game, is not the way to analyze a game. Both plays likely had similar impact on the game.

Views like this of yours are what causes me to believe you never played the game and don't understand the game. While some of your views like this are debatable, I find many of them to be laughable. If you want to discuss/debate football, you are, of course, welcome to your views. However, as the discussion progresses, I generally don't believe in ribbons for participation.

fear not. i understand all those things. you don't seem to understand that despite having j.j. on the field we still needed a blocked fg to beat a .500 team at home and a fumble ret for td and ko ret for td to beat a below .500 team.

had the 2012 team simply recovered an onside kick or held a qb to 500 yards instead of 660, we would've been 7-4 or even 8-3 by simply holding a rb somewhat in check at home.

 

[poorgriz]

I can't figure out "when end is which" in this argument.

Appears to me that PR thinks the Griz are better with JJ at the helm. So I think the entire argument boils down to a disagreement about exactly HOW much better. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't worry though, PR has been feverishly working all through the night to come up with his detailed analysis.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

no im saying it doesn't really matter what the stats say. we still lost three junk games in 2012 and won two junk in 2013. had it not been for that we're 8-3 in 2013, 8-4 in 2014. j.j. didn't run a kickoff and fumble back for tds vs sodak and he didn't block the fg vs poly. he couldn't stop kaufman from recovering onside kick or tackle bauman or stop nodak passing for 660 yards and he couldn't make all the fgs we missed vs m.s.u.

The point is that JJ would have helped the team score more TD's in 2012 and provided more offense and first downs in the second half of the some of the games that were lost--so that the team would have been ahead more and able to keep the defense from getting worn out as much as they did. The plays you refer to wouldn't have mattered, had UM been ahead more, scoring more later in games, and keeping the defense off the field. This was obvious to people who followed the games closely (and understand the game). Lots of people were making these observations in real time as the season was progressing in 2012.

My more detailed analysis is in progress.

that "might" explain 2012, but does nothing for your 2013 argument.

22 additional TDs in 2013, and the same number of special teams plus interception/fumble returns TDs in both years, supports my observation--not yours. I'll have my full report later in the week.

If JJ had played he could have suffered a season ending injury in the first quarter of the first game in 2012. Anybody who has ever played the game knows that. I don't know which is dumber, the rank speculation of this sophomoric argument or not letting it drop. Let's move on to something important, like whose dog is better.

 

[get'em_griz]

Basically PlayerRep and getgrizzy... :roll:

 

[PlayerRep]

22 additional TDs in 2013, and the same number of special teams plus interception/fumble returns TDs in both years, supports my observation--not yours. I'll have my full report later in the week.

you've merely reframed the discussion to support your argument. you've done nothing to discredit the way those games played out and the lack of effect j.j. would have on those games. the number of tds scored isn't necessarily a determining factor in the outcome of a season. there have many instances where the losing team of a series of games has scored more runs, points, tds.

the bottom line as ive consistently stated throughout the thread is that we've had a high number of games who's outcomes were decided in rare fashion the past two seasons. it's been pure coincidence that all three broke against us in 2012 and then two broke our way in 2013. j.j. had no factor in any of them. in fact the sodak win was his worst game of the year and he was probably having a net negative impact yet we won.

You don't seem to understand or want to admit that a great qb (especially compared to no experience at qb) will cause his team to be ahead by more points, to get more FDs later in the game (and give the defense more rest and take the pressure off them, and be able to score more later in the game if needed. As a result, big plays like you want to emphasize don't or won't matter as much.

Also, you don't seem to understand that big plays often occur in most seasons. That's the nature of competitive football. In addition, emphasizing a dramatic blocked FG at the end of a game over a dropped pass for TD earlier in the game, is not the way to analyze a game. Both plays likely had similar impact on the game.

Views like this of yours are what causes me to believe you never played the game and don't understand the game. While some of your views like this are debatable, I find many of them to be laughable. If you want to discuss/debate football, you are, of course, welcome to your views. However, as the discussion progresses, I generally don't believe in ribbons for participation.

fear not. i understand all those things. you don't seem to understand that despite having j.j. on the field we still needed a blocked fg to beat a .500 team at home and a fumble ret for td and ko ret for td to beat a below .500 team.

had the 2012 team simply recovered an onside kick or held a qb to 500 yards instead of 660, we would've been 7-4 or even 8-3 by simply holding a rb somewhat in check at home.

Yes, teams get breaks and/or make great plays, and opponents get breaks and/or make big plays. This is how competitive football is. However, if you team is up by another TD or so, none of those plays matter or make the difference. Don't know why you can't understand that.

Yes, every football game and season has tons of plays and calls that are important, even critical. However, what I'm trying to discuss/debate here, is that the impact that a single factor, the presence of JJ in 2012, would have had on the season. Again, that single factor. That single variable. It doesn't further the discussion to keep trying to discuss other factors. I can't tell if some of you don't understand how to discuss a single point or variable, or are incapable of it--or are just trying to avoid the discussion (presumably because you know you can win the argument, or support your own argument).

 

[PlayerRep]

The point is that JJ would have helped the team score more TD's in 2012 and provided more offense and first downs in the second half of the some of the games that were lost--so that the team would have been ahead more and able to keep the defense from getting worn out as much as they did. The plays you refer to wouldn't have mattered, had UM been ahead more, scoring more later in games, and keeping the defense off the field. This was obvious to people who followed the games closely (and understand the game). Lots of people were making these observations in real time as the season was progressing in 2012.

My more detailed analysis is in progress.

that "might" explain 2012, but does nothing for your 2013 argument.

22 additional TDs in 2013, and the same number of special teams plus interception/fumble returns TDs in both years, supports my observation--not yours. I'll have my full report later in the week.

If JJ had played he could have suffered a season ending injury in the first quarter of the first game in 2012. Anybody who has ever played the game knows that. I don't know which is dumber, the rank speculation of this sophomoric argument or not letting it drop. Let's move on to something important, like whose dog is better.

True, and he also could have thrown a half dozen TD passes every game. So what's your point?

 

[OptimusPrime]

Since this thread went sideways (shocking, I know), I'm just going to post this for poops and giggles:

 

[getgrizzy]

you've merely reframed the discussion to support your argument. you've done nothing to discredit the way those games played out and the lack of effect j.j. would have on those games. the number of tds scored isn't necessarily a determining factor in the outcome of a season. there have many instances where the losing team of a series of games has scored more runs, points, tds.

the bottom line as ive consistently stated throughout the thread is that we've had a high number of games who's outcomes were decided in rare fashion the past two seasons. it's been pure coincidence that all three broke against us in 2012 and then two broke our way in 2013. j.j. had no factor in any of them. in fact the sodak win was his worst game of the year and he was probably having a net negative impact yet we won.

You don't seem to understand or want to admit that a great qb (especially compared to no experience at qb) will cause his team to be ahead by more points, to get more FDs later in the game (and give the defense more rest and take the pressure off them, and be able to score more later in the game if needed. As a result, big plays like you want to emphasize don't or won't matter as much.

Also, you don't seem to understand that big plays often occur in most seasons. That's the nature of competitive football. In addition, emphasizing a dramatic blocked FG at the end of a game over a dropped pass for TD earlier in the game, is not the way to analyze a game. Both plays likely had similar impact on the game.

Views like this of yours are what causes me to believe you never played the game and don't understand the game. While some of your views like this are debatable, I find many of them to be laughable. If you want to discuss/debate football, you are, of course, welcome to your views. However, as the discussion progresses, I generally don't believe in ribbons for participation.

fear not. i understand all those things. you don't seem to understand that despite having j.j. on the field we still needed a blocked fg to beat a .500 team at home and a fumble ret for td and ko ret for td to beat a below .500 team.

had the 2012 team simply recovered an onside kick or held a qb to 500 yards instead of 660, we would've been 7-4 or even 8-3 by simply holding a rb somewhat in check at home.

Yes, teams get breaks and/or make great plays, and opponents get breaks and/or make big plays. This is how competitive football is. However, if you team is up by another TD or so, none of those plays matter or make the difference. Don't know why you can't understand that.

Yes, every football game and season has tons of plays and calls that are important, even critical. However, what I'm trying to discuss/debate here, is that the impact that a single factor, the presence of JJ in 2012, would have had on the season. Again, that single factor. That single variable. It doesn't further the discussion to keep trying to discuss other factors. I can't tell if some of you don't understand how to discuss a single point or variable, or are incapable of it--or are just trying to avoid the discussion (presumably because you know you can win the argument, or support your own argument).

omg! i didn't know it was so complex. :roll:

you realize that mckinney was 14-17 no ints and ran for 95 yards against e.w.u. j.j. wouldn't have done much better if at all. ssh was 26-39-0 for 306 and 3 tds vs nodak. again, not much more could be expected from j.j. then j.j. was 17-33-3, sacked 4 times at sodak. ssh or mckinney wouldn't have done much worse.

 

[get'em_griz]

Since this thread went sideways (shocking, I know), I'm just going to post this for poops and giggles:

:lol: I'm right there with you, Optimus.