What Came 1st, The Snap, or the Timeout?

[poorgriz]

Jeff Choate: "Greg, just so you know, I called timeout before they snapped the ball. Clearly that timeout was called before they snapped the ball." He went on to explain how he told the ref beforehand that he was going to call a time out before the next play. He also went on to explain how it was a premeditated plan made by he and TG, why they did it, and why they waited until just prior to the snap. It's all in the Choate weekly presser.

Great. So we are supposed to believe everything a coach says? Do you think he would admit that he called the TO late but the ref blew his whistle anyway. I am the type who wants hard evidence ge really. Let’s see the video. Let’s get unbiased observations.

Lol, yes, I believe what Choate said and it is pretty easy to see it on the replay. Go ahead and watch it yourself, ROOT will be showing a replay tomorrow around for you to watch or if you're doing family stuff, DVR it. I think it's funny you're picking this one topic to fight a battle on. Plus, you're being a but hypocritical by discounting what Choate said (And non biased announcers have backed up), yet you just stated in this very thread that you're listening and apparently putting some value in what some random posters on egriz are saying about then the whistle blew? :lol: Just watch the replay and make your own determination. Again, MOOT point however because it doesn't matter when the whistle blew, it matters when the coach called the timeout.

 

[The.Real.2506]

WOW, I finally got a chance to watch the last drive from my DVR. I have watched the play when Eastwood scored, to have it called back for a Cat time out. Too bad, we cannot have video to confirm when the timeout occurred. Based on audio and when I heard the whistle, it sounded as if the GRIZ snapped the ball slightly before a whistle was heard/blown. I hope everyone who can watch the replay, do so, then give your opinion. I really am trying not to be a GRIZ homer on this. I'd actually hope that maybe some other BSC team fans can weigh in, that aren't GRIZ or Cat fans.

Then again, the difference is so slight, and the officials don't have the benefit of replay to hear and/or see it, like we do. Either way, after seeing and hearing the replay, I honestly feel, once the offense is set, the defense cannot call a time out. Doing it so late really makes the job of the officials more difficult. That is magnified by a loud stadium too. I honestly doubt the officials could hear when the whistle actually blew for the timeout. Therefore, they used common sense, assuming MSU did indeed call time out on time.

It is a shame, the GRIZ lost. We have no way of knowing, one way or the other as to when the timeout was officially called, then granted. Based on what we can see and hear, to me I think the TD should have been confirmed. Either way, the GRIZ should not have let the Cats come back to have everyone in that position. Maybe this will create some change for the better, to make officiating slightly bit easier.

Either way, the Cats took advantage of the GRIZ allowing them to comeback. The outcome of the game was determined by more things than this. A great game like that, should not end in question, like this one did.

In the postgame presser Choate said he informed the head linejudge while the teams were still huddled he was going to take a timeout. He wanted to see the formation. Late whistle was on the (always awful) Big Sky refs...it was a tough deal for you guys, but it was legit.

He still needs to be right next to the official to call the time out. Coached can't just let the ref know they want a time out right before the snap...they don't even know what the snap count is.

I would also like to know where Choate was standing. The rule doesn’t allow a TO if not in the vicinity of the coach box or player area. Don’t know how that rule is interpreted, but it’s clear what it says.

Fahque, I agreee with all your posts on this subject. Why are so many Cat fans so sensitive on this issue? What are they hiding from?

Watch the replay, on the UM timeout after 2nd down ( the timeout right before the one you are discussing) Bobby was clear down inside the 5 yard line 10 yards onto the field calling that timeout.

I have no problem with that as I think a coach should be given that latitude in those situations. It is a fairly typical happening if you know much about football. I have seen it at all levels.

If you are arguing that the Cats should have been penalized because Choate was not near the player box then you should agree that UM should have the same penalty and the play would have 3 and goal from the 6 rather than the one (assuming a 5 yard penalty)

BTW I have never in my life heard of a team being penalized because the coach left the player box to call a timeout.

BTW, continuing to make this argument is making you look like a bigger idiot that I previously thought you were, and that is a very low bar

 

[Walkon79]

You guys are Priceless

 

[PlayerRep]

Jeff Choate: "Greg, just so you know, I called timeout before they snapped the ball. Clearly that timeout was called before they snapped the ball." He went on to explain how he told the ref beforehand that he was going to call a time out before the next play. He also went on to explain how it was a premeditated plan made by he and TG, why they did it, and why they waited until just prior to the snap. It's all in the Choate weekly presser.

Great. So we are supposed to believe everything a coach says? Do you think he would admit that he called the TO late but the ref blew his whistle anyway. I am the type who wants hard evidence ge really. Let’s see the video. Let’s get unbiased observations.

Lol, yes, I believe what Choate said and it is pretty easy to see it on the replay. Go ahead and watch it yourself, ROOT will be showing a replay tomorrow around for you to watch or if you're doing family stuff, DVR it. I think it's funny you're picking this one topic to fight a battle on. Plus, you're being a but hypocritical by discounting what Choate said (And non biased announcers have backed up), yet you just stated in this very thread that you're listening and apparently putting some value in what some random posters on egriz are saying about then the whistle blew? :lol: Just watch the replay and make your own determination. Again, MOOT point however because it doesn't matter when the whistle blew, it matters when the coach called the timeout.

I am not fighting a battle in any respect. I am just asking for facts. Post the video.

 

[PlayerRep]

In the postgame presser Choate said he informed the head linejudge while the teams were still huddled he was going to take a timeout. He wanted to see the formation. Late whistle was on the (always awful) Big Sky refs...it was a tough deal for you guys, but it was legit.

He still needs to be right next to the official to call the time out. Coached can't just let the ref know they want a time out right before the snap...they don't even know what the snap count is.

I would also like to know where Choate was standing. The rule doesn’t allow a TO if not in the vicinity of the coach box or player area. Don’t know how that rule is interpreted, but it’s clear what it says.

Fahque, I agreee with all your posts on this subject. Why are so many Cat fans so sensitive on this issue? What are they hiding from?

Watch the replay, on the UM timeout after 2nd down ( the timeout right before the one you are discussing) Bobby was clear down inside the 5 yard line 10 yards onto the field calling that timeout.

I have no problem with that as I think a coach should be given that latitude in those situations. It is a fairly typical happening if you know much about football. I have seen it at all levels.

If you are arguing that the Cats should have been penalized because Choate was not near the player box then you should agree that UM should have the same penalty and the play would have 3 and goal from the 6 rather than the one (assuming a 5 yard penalty)

BTW I have never in my life heard of a team being penalized because the coach left the player box to call a timeout.

BTW, continuing to make this argument is making you look like a bigger idiot that I previously thought you were, and that is a very low bar

I am not asking for penalties. I am saying the wording of the rule does not allow a TO to be called outside the vicinity of the coach box. Do you think the rule says otherwise? Please furnish the information that allows a TO to be called outside of that area. That's all I ask.

 

[clawman]

If the Griz had not fumbled on the last play and subsequently won the game would you question the time out?

 

[The.Real.2506]

He still needs to be right next to the official to call the time out. Coached can't just let the ref know they want a time out right before the snap...they don't even know what the snap count is.

I would also like to know where Choate was standing. The rule doesn’t allow a TO if not in the vicinity of the coach box or player area. Don’t know how that rule is interpreted, but it’s clear what it says.

Fahque, I agreee with all your posts on this subject. Why are so many Cat fans so sensitive on this issue? What are they hiding from?

Watch the replay, on the UM timeout after 2nd down ( the timeout right before the one you are discussing) Bobby was clear down inside the 5 yard line 10 yards onto the field calling that timeout.

I have no problem with that as I think a coach should be given that latitude in those situations. It is a fairly typical happening if you know much about football. I have seen it at all levels.

If you are arguing that the Cats should have been penalized because Choate was not near the player box then you should agree that UM should have the same penalty and the play would have 3 and goal from the 6 rather than the one (assuming a 5 yard penalty)

BTW I have never in my life heard of a team being penalized because the coach left the player box to call a timeout.

BTW, continuing to make this argument is making you look like a bigger idiot that I previously thought you were, and that is a very low bar

I am not asking for penalties. I am saying the wording of the rule does not allow a TO to be called outside the vicinity of the coach box. Do you think the rule says otherwise? Please furnish the information that allows a TO to be called outside of that area. That's all I ask.

So you are saying that BH should not have been given the timeout following 2nd down, with 14 seconds left that means the time would have expired before um could have gotten the 3rd down snap off, Cats win.

You cant seriously be this stupid.

 

[Fahque]

I would also like to know where Choate was standing. The rule doesn’t allow a TO if not in the vicinity of the coach box or player area. Don’t know how that rule is interpreted, but it’s clear what it says.

Fahque, I agreee with all your posts on this subject. Why are so many Cat fans so sensitive on this issue? What are they hiding from?

Watch the replay, on the UM timeout after 2nd down ( the timeout right before the one you are discussing) Bobby was clear down inside the 5 yard line 10 yards onto the field calling that timeout.

I have no problem with that as I think a coach should be given that latitude in those situations. It is a fairly typical happening if you know much about football. I have seen it at all levels.

If you are arguing that the Cats should have been penalized because Choate was not near the player box then you should agree that UM should have the same penalty and the play would have 3 and goal from the 6 rather than the one (assuming a 5 yard penalty)

BTW I have never in my life heard of a team being penalized because the coach left the player box to call a timeout.

BTW, continuing to make this argument is making you look like a bigger idiot that I previously thought you were, and that is a very low bar

I am not asking for penalties. I am saying the wording of the rule does not allow a TO to be called outside the vicinity of the coach box. Do you think the rule says otherwise? Please furnish the information that allows a TO to be called outside of that area. That's all I ask.

So you are saying that BH should not have been given the timeout following 2nd down, with 14 seconds left that means the time would have expired before um could have gotten the 3rd down snap off, Cats win.

You cant seriously be this stupid.

Why do you all keep twisting what people are asking? That’s completely not what he, or anyone else, is saying. Nobody disputes the outcome of the game, people are just discussing and wanting to know exactly when Choate called the time out. Before or after the snap.

 

[The.Real.2506]

Watch the replay, on the UM timeout after 2nd down ( the timeout right before the one you are discussing) Bobby was clear down inside the 5 yard line 10 yards onto the field calling that timeout.

I have no problem with that as I think a coach should be given that latitude in those situations. It is a fairly typical happening if you know much about football. I have seen it at all levels.

If you are arguing that the Cats should have been penalized because Choate was not near the player box then you should agree that UM should have the same penalty and the play would have 3 and goal from the 6 rather than the one (assuming a 5 yard penalty)

BTW I have never in my life heard of a team being penalized because the coach left the player box to call a timeout.

BTW, continuing to make this argument is making you look like a bigger idiot that I previously thought you were, and that is a very low bar

I am not asking for penalties. I am saying the wording of the rule does not allow a TO to be called outside the vicinity of the coach box. Do you think the rule says otherwise? Please furnish the information that allows a TO to be called outside of that area. That's all I ask.

So you are saying that BH should not have been given the timeout following 2nd down, with 14 seconds left that means the time would have expired before um could have gotten the 3rd down snap off, Cats win.

You cant seriously be this stupid.

Why do you all keep twisting what people are asking? That’s completely not what he, or anyone else, is saying. Nobody disputes the outcome of the game, people are just discussing and wanting to know exactly when Choate called the time out. Before or after the snap.

No, PR is claiming that MSU's timeout is invalid because Choate was not "In the vicinity" of the players box when he made it. Its a ridiculous argument to anyone that knows anything at all about football.

As far as the timing of the TO, the line judge is the only one that can determine that, and he obviously thought the TO was before the snap, end of discussion.

 

[Fahque]

I am not asking for penalties. I am saying the wording of the rule does not allow a TO to be called outside the vicinity of the coach box. Do you think the rule says otherwise? Please furnish the information that allows a TO to be called outside of that area. That's all I ask.

So you are saying that BH should not have been given the timeout following 2nd down, with 14 seconds left that means the time would have expired before um could have gotten the 3rd down snap off, Cats win.

You cant seriously be this stupid.

Why do you all keep twisting what people are asking? That’s completely not what he, or anyone else, is saying. Nobody disputes the outcome of the game, people are just discussing and wanting to know exactly when Choate called the time out. Before or after the snap.

No, PR is claiming that MSU's timeout is invalid because Choate was not "In the vicinity" of the players box when he made it. Its a ridiculous argument to anyone that knows anything at all about football.

As far as the timing of the TO, the line judge is the only one that can determine that, and he obviously thought the TO was before the snap, end of discussion.

It’s a message board dude, they were made for discussions. Obviously the ref thought it was called before the snap. All I see are people saying Choate let the ref know ahead of time but no one saw him call the actual time out. He must’ve though because he got it. Probably timed it with Sneed’s crouch. If the discussion bothers you, might I suggest retreating to your safe place.

 

[The.Real.2506]

So you are saying that BH should not have been given the timeout following 2nd down, with 14 seconds left that means the time would have expired before um could have gotten the 3rd down snap off, Cats win.

You cant seriously be this stupid.

Why do you all keep twisting what people are asking? That’s completely not what he, or anyone else, is saying. Nobody disputes the outcome of the game, people are just discussing and wanting to know exactly when Choate called the time out. Before or after the snap.

No, PR is claiming that MSU's timeout is invalid because Choate was not "In the vicinity" of the players box when he made it. Its a ridiculous argument to anyone that knows anything at all about football.

As far as the timing of the TO, the line judge is the only one that can determine that, and he obviously thought the TO was before the snap, end of discussion.

It’s a message board dude, they were made for discussions. Obviously the ref thought it was called before the snap. All I see are people saying Choate let the ref know ahead of time but no one saw him call the actual time out. He must’ve though because he got it. Probably timed it with Sneed’s crouch. If the discussion bothers you, might I suggest retreating to your safe place.

It doesn't bother me, I think it is hilarious that a blowhard like PR that claims to know so much about football is making such a stupid argument as to say that coaches can't call a timeout unless they are in the players box. We all know it happens in almost every game at every level and yet he thinks it is a valid argument.

 

[PlayerRep]

I would also like to know where Choate was standing. The rule doesn’t allow a TO if not in the vicinity of the coach box or player area. Don’t know how that rule is interpreted, but it’s clear what it says.

Fahque, I agreee with all your posts on this subject. Why are so many Cat fans so sensitive on this issue? What are they hiding from?

Watch the replay, on the UM timeout after 2nd down ( the timeout right before the one you are discussing) Bobby was clear down inside the 5 yard line 10 yards onto the field calling that timeout.

I have no problem with that as I think a coach should be given that latitude in those situations. It is a fairly typical happening if you know much about football. I have seen it at all levels.

If you are arguing that the Cats should have been penalized because Choate was not near the player box then you should agree that UM should have the same penalty and the play would have 3 and goal from the 6 rather than the one (assuming a 5 yard penalty)

BTW I have never in my life heard of a team being penalized because the coach left the player box to call a timeout.

BTW, continuing to make this argument is making you look like a bigger idiot that I previously thought you were, and that is a very low bar

I am not asking for penalties. I am saying the wording of the rule does not allow a TO to be called outside the vicinity of the coach box. Do you think the rule says otherwise? Please furnish the information that allows a TO to be called outside of that area. That's all I ask.

So you are saying that BH should not have been given the timeout following 2nd down, with 14 seconds left that means the time would have expired before um could have gotten the 3rd down snap off, Cats win.

You cant seriously be this stupid.

I am not saying anything. Just asking whether the apparent rule is enforced, or how it is enforced. It should be uniform for all. A TO can be called by the coach from the vicinity of the coaching box, which Hauck could done done in that instance, or by a player on the field. in Hauck's situation, another second or two would not have made any difference.

 

[PlayerRep]

I am not asking for penalties. I am saying the wording of the rule does not allow a TO to be called outside the vicinity of the coach box. Do you think the rule says otherwise? Please furnish the information that allows a TO to be called outside of that area. That's all I ask.

So you are saying that BH should not have been given the timeout following 2nd down, with 14 seconds left that means the time would have expired before um could have gotten the 3rd down snap off, Cats win.

You cant seriously be this stupid.

Why do you all keep twisting what people are asking? That’s completely not what he, or anyone else, is saying. Nobody disputes the outcome of the game, people are just discussing and wanting to know exactly when Choate called the time out. Before or after the snap.

No, PR is claiming that MSU's timeout is invalid because Choate was not "In the vicinity" of the players box when he made it. Its a ridiculous argument to anyone that knows anything at all about football.

As far as the timing of the TO, the line judge is the only one that can determine that, and he obviously thought the TO was before the snap, end of discussion.

I have never said or indicated the the TO may have been invalid. Even if Choate was late, the ref's blowing of the whistle stopped the play.

I agree with Fahque. Why do you want to keep arguing or saying something that no one, including myself, is saying? I know. Because you are a troll and a jerk.

 

[PlayerRep]

Why do you all keep twisting what people are asking? That’s completely not what he, or anyone else, is saying. Nobody disputes the outcome of the game, people are just discussing and wanting to know exactly when Choate called the time out. Before or after the snap.

No, PR is claiming that MSU's timeout is invalid because Choate was not "In the vicinity" of the players box when he made it. Its a ridiculous argument to anyone that knows anything at all about football.

As far as the timing of the TO, the line judge is the only one that can determine that, and he obviously thought the TO was before the snap, end of discussion.

It’s a message board dude, they were made for discussions. Obviously the ref thought it was called before the snap. All I see are people saying Choate let the ref know ahead of time but no one saw him call the actual time out. He must’ve though because he got it. Probably timed it with Sneed’s crouch. If the discussion bothers you, might I suggest retreating to your safe place.

It doesn't bother me, I think it is hilarious that a blowhard like PR that claims to know so much about football is making such a stupid argument as to say that coaches can't call a timeout unless they are in the players box. We all know it happens in almost every game at every level and yet he thinks it is a valid argument.

Again, here's the NCAA rule:

"A head coach who is in, or in the vicinity of, his team area or coaching box may request a timeout between the time the ball is declared dead and the next snap."

This discussion is about where Choate was and when he asked for a TO. Not sure anyone has actually been able to answer these questions with specificity or knowledge. I have not seen any video.

I don't care where Hauck was. I want to know where Choate was. Feel free to start another thread on Hauck and from where he calls TO's.

Talk about blowhards. Fahque and I and others just ask for some information, and all we get is speculation and irrelevant stuff from blowhards like yourself.

 

[Griz2k]

So you are saying that BH should not have been given the timeout following 2nd down, with 14 seconds left that means the time would have expired before um could have gotten the 3rd down snap off, Cats win.

You cant seriously be this stupid.

Why do you all keep twisting what people are asking? That’s completely not what he, or anyone else, is saying. Nobody disputes the outcome of the game, people are just discussing and wanting to know exactly when Choate called the time out. Before or after the snap.

No, PR is claiming that MSU's timeout is invalid because Choate was not "In the vicinity" of the players box when he made it. Its a ridiculous argument to anyone that knows anything at all about football.

As far as the timing of the TO, the line judge is the only one that can determine that, and he obviously thought the TO was before the snap, end of discussion.

I have never said or indicated the the TO may have been invalid. Even if Choate was late, the ref's blowing of the whistle stopped the play.

I agree with Fahque. Why do you want to keep arguing or saying something that no one, including myself, is saying? I know. Because you are a troll and a jerk.

Except that it didn't...heck, the field goal unit was half way onto the field when they finally decided the TD didn't count. But, it is what it is. The cats are moving on and the Griz are watching the Hallmark channel's countdown to Christmas movie marathon.

 

[PlayerRep]

Why do you all keep twisting what people are asking? That’s completely not what he, or anyone else, is saying. Nobody disputes the outcome of the game, people are just discussing and wanting to know exactly when Choate called the time out. Before or after the snap.

No, PR is claiming that MSU's timeout is invalid because Choate was not "In the vicinity" of the players box when he made it. Its a ridiculous argument to anyone that knows anything at all about football.

As far as the timing of the TO, the line judge is the only one that can determine that, and he obviously thought the TO was before the snap, end of discussion.

I have never said or indicated the the TO may have been invalid. Even if Choate was late, the ref's blowing of the whistle stopped the play.

I agree with Fahque. Why do you want to keep arguing or saying something that no one, including myself, is saying? I know. Because you are a troll and a jerk.

Except that it didn't...heck, the field goal unit was half way onto the field when they finally decided the TD didn't count. But, it is what it is. The cats are moving on and the Griz are watching the Hallmark channel's countdown to Christmas movie marathon.

Agreed. But a whistle officially ends the play by rule, even if the players continue.

 

[Griz2k]

No, PR is claiming that MSU's timeout is invalid because Choate was not "In the vicinity" of the players box when he made it. Its a ridiculous argument to anyone that knows anything at all about football.

As far as the timing of the TO, the line judge is the only one that can determine that, and he obviously thought the TO was before the snap, end of discussion.

I have never said or indicated the the TO may have been invalid. Even if Choate was late, the ref's blowing of the whistle stopped the play.

I agree with Fahque. Why do you want to keep arguing or saying something that no one, including myself, is saying? I know. Because you are a troll and a jerk.

Except that it didn't...heck, the field goal unit was half way onto the field when they finally decided the TD didn't count. But, it is what it is. The cats are moving on and the Griz are watching the Hallmark channel's countdown to Christmas movie marathon.

Agreed. But a whistle officially ends the play by rule, even if the players continue.

Ya, I know. That was just my own personal whining moment that there was no whistle. I'm just upset that I wasted a shot of Fireball on a TD that wasn't.

 

[PlayerRep]

I have never said or indicated the the TO may have been invalid. Even if Choate was late, the ref's blowing of the whistle stopped the play.

I agree with Fahque. Why do you want to keep arguing or saying something that no one, including myself, is saying? I know. Because you are a troll and a jerk.

Except that it didn't...heck, the field goal unit was half way onto the field when they finally decided the TD didn't count. But, it is what it is. The cats are moving on and the Griz are watching the Hallmark channel's countdown to Christmas movie marathon.

Agreed. But a whistle officially ends the play by rule, even if the players continue.

Ya, I know. That was just my own personal whining moment that there was no whistle. I'm just upset that I wasted a shot of Fireball on a TD that wasn't.

What you, and everyone, observed, i.e. the delay in figuring out what happened, and the seeming lack of signs of a TO, is what caused most of these questions. As you already know.

 

[Fahque]

If you're a member of the Montana Grizzlies Football Fans Group on Facebook you can watch this video...

https://www.facebook.com/jessefulcher05/videos/10100365816822260/

 

[The.Real.2506]

Except that it didn't...heck, the field goal unit was half way onto the field when they finally decided the TD didn't count. But, it is what it is. The cats are moving on and the Griz are watching the Hallmark channel's countdown to Christmas movie marathon.

Agreed. But a whistle officially ends the play by rule, even if the players continue.

Ya, I know. That was just my own personal whining moment that there was no whistle. I'm just upset that I wasted a shot of Fireball on a TD that wasn't.

What you, and everyone, observed, i.e. the delay in figuring out what happened, and the seeming lack of signs of a TO, is what caused most of these questions. As you already know.

The reason you have all these questions is a lack of football knowledge, pure and simple