What Came 1st, The Snap, or the Timeout?

[FlyCastingCat]

Is this something the Conference can give us an answer too, or even ask Choate and/or Hauck how the timeouts are to be administered? In most every sport, the movement of the ball (the snap in this case), take precedent over the whistle. Why do you think football teams rush to get a ball snapped in possible replay situations? That is because the snap take precedence over the officials stopping play.

False. The whistle will ALWAYS trump the play if it is in question or too close to call.

 

[FlyCastingCat]

That timeout was called almost simultaneously with the snap. I watched Choate the whole time and from my vantage point the time out seems to be taken right at the snap. I knew he was going to it that’s why I watched him. I have no idea how it works if the ball and the timeout are at the same time but I do know that just because he tells the ref he is taking one doesn’t mean it’s taken. Montana played well enough to win this game but didn’t finish the final 20 seconds and it only makes sense that fans are pissed about it. Oh I can hardly wait for state ag to play North Dakota State and watch them get the hell beat out of them. Will make for a good beginning to the Holiday season.

At least the Cats have the chance to play at NDSU and won't be home watching the Griz get their head handed to them there.

Just going to play the defending national champions in their house will be hugely positive for the program moving forward, despite the outcome.

 

[grzz]

That timeout was called almost simultaneously with the snap. I watched Choate the whole time and from my vantage point the time out seems to be taken right at the snap. I knew he was going to it that’s why I watched him. I have no idea how it works if the ball and the timeout are at the same time but I do know that just because he tells the ref he is taking one doesn’t mean it’s taken. Montana played well enough to win this game but didn’t finish the final 20 seconds and it only makes sense that fans are pissed about it. Oh I can hardly wait for state ag to play North Dakota State and watch them get the hell beat out of them. Will make for a good beginning to the Holiday season.

At least the Cats have the chance to play at NDSU and won't be home watching the Griz get their head handed to them there.

Just going to play the defending national champions in their house will be hugely positive for the program moving forward, despite the outcome.

Wasn't that long ago that the Griz beat the cats in Bozeman to cement a playoff bid, beat a relatively easy team at home in the first round, then went to NDSU and got waxed... I think the jury is officially back in on whether that was good for our program or not, haven't been back to the playoffs since...haha.

 

[PlayerRep]

15 yard line is out of the vicinity, in my view. Where, exactly, was Choate standing when the TO was called? How close was Choate to the player area or coaching box when he called the TO? If you were right there, I assume know.

How do you know it was called before the snap? What's your evidence of that? Did you hear Choate? Did Choate signal with his hands? if so, how could the ref see Choate and see whether the ball was snapped?

Why were you watching Choate and the ref when the TO was called, instead of the upcoming play, perhaps the most important play of the season. Seems odd that you weren't watching the upcoming play.

What's your support for saying the timing of the whistle doesn't matter? Just curious. Or, did you just make that up?

It wasn't the ref, it was the line judge.

It happened pretty close to below me. I was watching Choate because he was actively running around barking orders and engaged the LJ before the play. I'm assuming to have him prepared for the call?

What was the LJ supposed to do, ignore the TO call because he couldn't whistle before the snap? Ignore it when he was outside of an undefined vicinity? TO whistle happen during or immediately after the snap all the time. Coaches are outside the coaches box to talk to refs before live ball all the time, especially to call a TO in that situation.

Choate executed the entire thing well. It APPEARED that he was prepping for the TO and called it. I can't provide you "evidence". I don't have pictures and wasn't taking video. I don't really care if you believe me. It's my point of view on the play of which I had a pretty good observance point. Why didn't Hauck blow a gasket over it, if it was in fact an officiating error?

What would you have done differently as an official in that situation, PR, besides blowing the whistle sooner?

In my view, all officials on the field are "refs". Don't get your feelings hurt. I'm just challenging some of what you said. You said Choate called the TO timely and properly, but I knew that you couldn't possibly have known that and it was unlikely that you were even looking at Choate/ref at the time. You would have been looking at the play.

On Hauck, do you know he didn't blow a gasket? I assume he didn't want to get a penalty at that point of the game and at that point of the field. I would hope he'd be very careful.

How do you "know" what I saw? Do you have evidence? What do you have to support that you know what I saw? I don't come onto message boards to lie or speculate. I have no skin in the game in this, besides being a Griz fan. Trying to be objective based on what I saw and observed. If that doesn't fit your agenda, then I'm sorry...

I'm assuming if this was a blatant FUBAR as you are suggesting that Hauck would have at least argued with the ref about it like he does and all coaches do when they don't agree with the call. I didn't see how Hauck reacted to that, but I don't remember him being critical. Not after the game in the presser either. Maybe he is, but I doubt it.

Okay, let's start over.

What's your basis for saying this? "the entirety of the situation was legal, calculated, and well executed by Choate". How do you know when Choate called the TO? Did he do it orally, or by hand signal, or both? Was the ref looking at him to see the hand signal? Were you looking at the play or Choate/ref? How could you see whether the snap had occurred if you were looking at Choate/ref? If looking at the snap, how do you know when Choate called the TO?

You also said this. Note that another poster who says he had a good view says that Choate didn't talk to the ref ahead of time? "I was watching Choate because he was actively running around barking orders and engaged the LJ before the play." Again, what were you looking at when the TO was called and the snap occurred? Assume you can't look at 2 places at once.

I disagree that Hauck or should have argued the call. The call was made. It couldn't have been undone. The play was presumably stopped by the ref properly, or improperly, calling the TO (and thus an inadvertent whistle), but it was stopped (unless the whistle came after Eastwood scored, which it didn't). Hauck couldn't run the risk of a penalty then, because he still had 2 plays to score, he thought.

Just tell us exactly what you saw, and what you were looking at, don't embellish, and then let us decide what we think. Or, don't respond. Or, do what you want. Note that another poster is seemingly not agreeing with what you said you saw.

No one, including me, is not believing you. We, or I, just want to pin down what you actually saw and when. I know what your view is, but I don't care about your view. I am looking for tidbits of facts.

I find it to be an interesting discussion. I'd just like to learn more of the actual facts. I've learned plenty of things in this thread. It's an "academic" discussion. Somewhat instructional, at least for me.

 

[PlayerRep]

I love fact that PR is still trying to argue a losing viewpoint

I am not "arguing" anything. Like other posters like grzz, I am just discussing and trying to figure out exactly what occurred, and when, and what the exact rules are. A good deal of that has occurred.

As opposed to you, who thinks UM played only 1 playoff team and lost, as opposed to UM actually having played 3 playoff teams and beaten 1. Compared to the Cats having played 3 playoff teams and lost to all 3 of them. You need to get your own house in order before you post.

 

[PlayerRep]

My question is why was it legal for Choate to be all the way down standing behind the line judge two plays in a row? I thought they had to stay in the "box" on the sidelines?

Bobby Hauck also ran on the field all the way to about the 10 yard line and 10 yards onto the field of play to call a time-out in the game, but nobody seems to remember that. All coaches run down the sideline (outside the box?) and often on the field if necessary to get the refs attention. As has been stated by a cpl astute commentators it doesn't matter if the whistle happens before the snap. If the ref sees the time-out called before the snap, he blows the whistle and runs in to signal a time-out even if the snap happens simultaneously or even slightly before he blows the whistle and a touch-down or Field-goal ensues. How many last-second field-goal attempts have you seen play out and then "Oh, wait a time-out was apparently called before the kick". Every day if you watch much football.

What did the ref do and when? I'd love to see or know that.

Is there a difference between running out of the box to call an immediate TO, and standing by the ref at he 3 yard line? I don't know where Choate was at the time of the TO call, by the way. Just looking at some of the posts?

Would seem odd if it is okay to walk down the field and stand by the ref at the goal line. Can read the rule, which wouldn't seem to allow a coach to even call at TO like that, but don't know how the rule is used or enforced in practice.

 

[cameo]

What bothered me was that no official review occurred re the ruling of a fumble. I thought that was a given? Also, why would we run the same play after we just showed them the play. After the time out, their defense was crowding the center expecting the handoff to Eastwood, why not fake the handoff and have Sneed run a sweep? It worked for Anderson all season.

 

[grizghost]

What bothered me was that no official review occurred re the ruling of a fumble. I thought that was a given? Also, why would we run the same play after we just showed them the play. After the time out, their defense was crowding the center expecting the handoff to Eastwood, why not fake the handoff and have Sneed run a sweep? It worked for Anderson all season.

yeah asked the same question after we tip our hand..TY sold out and rush that side... the rest is
history..how many people now think TY was a bad coach..

 

[4thecats]

Just watching the replay. Funny how nobody is mentioning the fact Bobby called a timeout before halftime after the Cats lined up at the 3 yard line. The whistle was blown before the play was ran, but the Cats were already lined up and Hauck called time out after he saw what the cats line up was going to be

 

[Silenoz]

That timeout was called almost simultaneously with the snap. I watched Choate the whole time and from my vantage point the time out seems to be taken right at the snap. I knew he was going to it that’s why I watched him. I have no idea how it works if the ball and the timeout are at the same time but I do know that just because he tells the ref he is taking one doesn’t mean it’s taken. Montana played well enough to win this game but didn’t finish the final 20 seconds and it only makes sense that fans are pissed about it. Oh I can hardly wait for state ag to play North Dakota State and watch them get the hell beat out of them. Will make for a good beginning to the Holiday season.

At least the Cats have the chance to play at NDSU and won't be home watching the Griz get their head handed to them there.

Just going to play the defending national champions in their house will be hugely positive for the program moving forward, despite the outcome.

Really? It's been all downhill for us since :lol:

 

[PlayerRep]

Just watching the replay. Funny how nobody is mentioning the fact Bobby called a timeout before halftime after the Cats lined up at the 3 yard line. The whistle was blown before the play was ran, but the Cats were already lined up and Hauck called time out after he saw what the cats line up was going to be

Why would anyone mention that? It happens all the time. It is perfectly fine. No question the TO was called in time. No play was run. No apparent TD was scored.

 

[nzone]

I’ve always been a proponent of only letting players call time outs. The refs have enough to do than to worry about coaches calling time outs. Problem solved.

 

[grizindabox]

I’ve always been a proponent of only letting players call time outs. The refs have enough to do than to worry about coaches calling time outs. Problem solved.

Bad take

 

[4thecats]

Just watching the replay. Funny how nobody is mentioning the fact Bobby called a timeout before halftime after the Cats lined up at the 3 yard line. The whistle was blown before the play was ran, but the Cats were already lined up and Hauck called time out after he saw what the cats line up was going to be

Why would anyone mention that? It happens all the time. It is perfectly fine. No question the TO was called in time. No play was run. No apparent TD was scored.

So it's OK when th griz do it, but not the Cats... Good to know. Even the announcers were impressed by the use of TO By both coaches.

 

[Mousegriz]

It wasn't the ref, it was the line judge.

It happened pretty close to below me. I was watching Choate because he was actively running around barking orders and engaged the LJ before the play. I'm assuming to have him prepared for the call?

What was the LJ supposed to do, ignore the TO call because he couldn't whistle before the snap? Ignore it when he was outside of an undefined vicinity? TO whistle happen during or immediately after the snap all the time. Coaches are outside the coaches box to talk to refs before live ball all the time, especially to call a TO in that situation.

Choate executed the entire thing well. It APPEARED that he was prepping for the TO and called it. I can't provide you "evidence". I don't have pictures and wasn't taking video. I don't really care if you believe me. It's my point of view on the play of which I had a pretty good observance point. Why didn't Hauck blow a gasket over it, if it was in fact an officiating error?

What would you have done differently as an official in that situation, PR, besides blowing the whistle sooner?

In my view, all officials on the field are "refs". Don't get your feelings hurt. I'm just challenging some of what you said. You said Choate called the TO timely and properly, but I knew that you couldn't possibly have known that and it was unlikely that you were even looking at Choate/ref at the time. You would have been looking at the play.

On Hauck, do you know he didn't blow a gasket? I assume he didn't want to get a penalty at that point of the game and at that point of the field. I would hope he'd be very careful.

How do you "know" what I saw? Do you have evidence? What do you have to support that you know what I saw? I don't come onto message boards to lie or speculate. I have no skin in the game in this, besides being a Griz fan. Trying to be objective based on what I saw and observed. If that doesn't fit your agenda, then I'm sorry...

I'm assuming if this was a blatant FUBAR as you are suggesting that Hauck would have at least argued with the ref about it like he does and all coaches do when they don't agree with the call. I didn't see how Hauck reacted to that, but I don't remember him being critical. Not after the game in the presser either. Maybe he is, but I doubt it.

Okay, let's start over.

What's your basis for saying this? "the entirety of the situation was legal, calculated, and well executed by Choate". How do you know when Choate called the TO? Did he do it orally, or by hand signal, or both? Was the ref looking at him to see the hand signal? Were you looking at the play or Choate/ref? How could you see whether the snap had occurred if you were looking at Choate/ref? If looking at the snap, how do you know when Choate called the TO?

You also said this. Note that another poster who says he had a good view says that Choate didn't talk to the ref ahead of time? "I was watching Choate because he was actively running around barking orders and engaged the LJ before the play." Again, what were you looking at when the TO was called and the snap occurred? Assume you can't look at 2 places at once.

I disagree that Hauck or should have argued the call. The call was made. It couldn't have been undone. The play was presumably stopped by the ref properly, or improperly, calling the TO (and thus an inadvertent whistle), but it was stopped (unless the whistle came after Eastwood scored, which it didn't). Hauck couldn't run the risk of a penalty then, because he still had 2 plays to score, he thought.

Just tell us exactly what you saw, and what you were looking at, don't embellish, and then let us decide what we think. Or, don't respond. Or, do what you want. Note that another poster is seemingly not agreeing with what you said you saw.

No one, including me, is not believing you. We, or I, just want to pin down what you actually saw and when. I know what your view is, but I don't care about your view. I am looking for tidbits of facts.

I find it to be an interesting discussion. I'd just like to learn more of the actual facts. I've learned plenty of things in this thread. It's an "academic" discussion. Somewhat instructional, at least for me.

On the replay I saw Choate mouth "I'm going to call timeout" (tidbit of fact......but I may not be good at lip reading) to another assistant on his bench 20 or more seconds before the actual call. I didn't see him as he made the call......but seems logical that he did what he said he'd do well before he actually signaled TO.

During that timeout......Choate and the Cats huddled together as a team and must have schemed their plans for the next play. Hauck seemed to wander around talking to the refs during most of the timeout. Maybe his team was scheming with an offensive coach....but the Cats seemed to come out of that TO with a better scheme!

That's what I saw live and on replay yesterday.....but I'm just a loser dick who will never go far in life!

 

[PlayerRep]

Just watching the replay. Funny how nobody is mentioning the fact Bobby called a timeout before halftime after the Cats lined up at the 3 yard line. The whistle was blown before the play was ran, but the Cats were already lined up and Hauck called time out after he saw what the cats line up was going to be

Why would anyone mention that? It happens all the time. It is perfectly fine. No question the TO was called in time. No play was run. No apparent TD was scored.

So it's OK when th griz do it, but not the Cats... Good to know. Even the announcers were impressed by the use of TO By both coaches.

Did anyone complain about the Cats "doing it"? If so, please post the complaint.

 

[PlayerRep]

In my view, all officials on the field are "refs". Don't get your feelings hurt. I'm just challenging some of what you said. You said Choate called the TO timely and properly, but I knew that you couldn't possibly have known that and it was unlikely that you were even looking at Choate/ref at the time. You would have been looking at the play.

On Hauck, do you know he didn't blow a gasket? I assume he didn't want to get a penalty at that point of the game and at that point of the field. I would hope he'd be very careful.

How do you "know" what I saw? Do you have evidence? What do you have to support that you know what I saw? I don't come onto message boards to lie or speculate. I have no skin in the game in this, besides being a Griz fan. Trying to be objective based on what I saw and observed. If that doesn't fit your agenda, then I'm sorry...

I'm assuming if this was a blatant FUBAR as you are suggesting that Hauck would have at least argued with the ref about it like he does and all coaches do when they don't agree with the call. I didn't see how Hauck reacted to that, but I don't remember him being critical. Not after the game in the presser either. Maybe he is, but I doubt it.

Okay, let's start over.

What's your basis for saying this? "the entirety of the situation was legal, calculated, and well executed by Choate". How do you know when Choate called the TO? Did he do it orally, or by hand signal, or both? Was the ref looking at him to see the hand signal? Were you looking at the play or Choate/ref? How could you see whether the snap had occurred if you were looking at Choate/ref? If looking at the snap, how do you know when Choate called the TO?

You also said this. Note that another poster who says he had a good view says that Choate didn't talk to the ref ahead of time? "I was watching Choate because he was actively running around barking orders and engaged the LJ before the play." Again, what were you looking at when the TO was called and the snap occurred? Assume you can't look at 2 places at once.

I disagree that Hauck or should have argued the call. The call was made. It couldn't have been undone. The play was presumably stopped by the ref properly, or improperly, calling the TO (and thus an inadvertent whistle), but it was stopped (unless the whistle came after Eastwood scored, which it didn't). Hauck couldn't run the risk of a penalty then, because he still had 2 plays to score, he thought.

Just tell us exactly what you saw, and what you were looking at, don't embellish, and then let us decide what we think. Or, don't respond. Or, do what you want. Note that another poster is seemingly not agreeing with what you said you saw.

No one, including me, is not believing you. We, or I, just want to pin down what you actually saw and when. I know what your view is, but I don't care about your view. I am looking for tidbits of facts.

I find it to be an interesting discussion. I'd just like to learn more of the actual facts. I've learned plenty of things in this thread. It's an "academic" discussion. Somewhat instructional, at least for me.

On the replay I saw Choate mouth "I'm going to call timeout" (tidbit of fact......but I may not be good at lip reading) to another assistant on his bench 20 or more seconds before the actual call. I didn't see him as he made the call......but seems logical that he did what he said he'd do well before he actually signaled TO.

During that timeout......Choate and the Cats huddled together as a team and must have schemed their plans for the next play. Hauck seemed to wander around talking to the refs during most of the timeout. Maybe his team was scheming with an offensive coach....but the Cats seemed to come out of that TO with a better scheme!

That's what I saw live and on replay yesterday.....but I'm just a loser dick who will never go far in life!

Thanks. I don't think anyone questioned whether Choate called a TO. But some have wondered when he called the TO, because the ref didn't seem to immediately call the TO. I agree with your last paragraph. You have earned all of that.

 

[grizindabox]

How do you "know" what I saw? Do you have evidence? What do you have to support that you know what I saw? I don't come onto message boards to lie or speculate. I have no skin in the game in this, besides being a Griz fan. Trying to be objective based on what I saw and observed. If that doesn't fit your agenda, then I'm sorry...

I'm assuming if this was a blatant FUBAR as you are suggesting that Hauck would have at least argued with the ref about it like he does and all coaches do when they don't agree with the call. I didn't see how Hauck reacted to that, but I don't remember him being critical. Not after the game in the presser either. Maybe he is, but I doubt it.

Okay, let's start over.

What's your basis for saying this? "the entirety of the situation was legal, calculated, and well executed by Choate". How do you know when Choate called the TO? Did he do it orally, or by hand signal, or both? Was the ref looking at him to see the hand signal? Were you looking at the play or Choate/ref? How could you see whether the snap had occurred if you were looking at Choate/ref? If looking at the snap, how do you know when Choate called the TO?

You also said this. Note that another poster who says he had a good view says that Choate didn't talk to the ref ahead of time? "I was watching Choate because he was actively running around barking orders and engaged the LJ before the play." Again, what were you looking at when the TO was called and the snap occurred? Assume you can't look at 2 places at once.

I disagree that Hauck or should have argued the call. The call was made. It couldn't have been undone. The play was presumably stopped by the ref properly, or improperly, calling the TO (and thus an inadvertent whistle), but it was stopped (unless the whistle came after Eastwood scored, which it didn't). Hauck couldn't run the risk of a penalty then, because he still had 2 plays to score, he thought.

Just tell us exactly what you saw, and what you were looking at, don't embellish, and then let us decide what we think. Or, don't respond. Or, do what you want. Note that another poster is seemingly not agreeing with what you said you saw.

No one, including me, is not believing you. We, or I, just want to pin down what you actually saw and when. I know what your view is, but I don't care about your view. I am looking for tidbits of facts.

I find it to be an interesting discussion. I'd just like to learn more of the actual facts. I've learned plenty of things in this thread. It's an "academic" discussion. Somewhat instructional, at least for me.

On the replay I saw Choate mouth "I'm going to call timeout" (tidbit of fact......but I may not be good at lip reading) to another assistant on his bench 20 or more seconds before the actual call. I didn't see him as he made the call......but seems logical that he did what he said he'd do well before he actually signaled TO.

During that timeout......Choate and the Cats huddled together as a team and must have schemed their plans for the next play. Hauck seemed to wander around talking to the refs during most of the timeout. Maybe his team was scheming with an offensive coach....but the Cats seemed to come out of that TO with a better scheme!

That's what I saw live and on replay yesterday.....but I'm just a loser dick who will never go far in life!

Thanks. I don't think anyone questioned whether Choate called a TO. But some have wondered when he called the TO, because the ref didn't seem to immediately call the TO. I agree with your last paragraph. You have earned all of that.

If TG were on the field and not in the booth, they probably would have been huddled with him.

 

[4thecats]

Just watching the replay. Funny how nobody is mentioning the fact Bobby called a timeout before halftime after the Cats lined up at the 3 yard line. The whistle was blown before the play was ran, but the Cats were already lined up and Hauck called time out after he saw what the cats line up was going to be

Why would anyone mention that? It happens all the time. It is perfectly fine. No question the TO was called in time. No play was run. No apparent TD was scored.

So it's OK when th griz do it, but not the Cats... Good to know. Even the announcers were impressed by the use of TO By both coaches.

Did anyone complain about the Cats "doing it"? If so, please post the complaint.

That's what this entire thing is about. Complaints about Choate calling a TO.
Anyways, on to more important things in this world. It was a classic game to watch

 

[ATLCAT]

If you watch the Root replay, during the um timeout, the camera is on Choate. He puts his hand over the mouthpiece of his headset and tells the referee that is standing next to him and clearly says “I’m going to call a timeout”

You lost. Suck it up!!