Watering down of FCS

[grizfan95]

If you believe that the 1-AA/FCS national championship is a mythical accomplishment

Settle down. No one claimed it was a mythical accomplishment. They are great accomplishments of which to be proud.

Regarding athletes, you're perfectly making my point. Yes, we WOULD get better athletes if we were in an FBS conference. I don't know of any coach in the country who would contend differently.

Perhaps we would get better athletes but so does anyone at the FBS level, minus Idaho. Getting better athletes than you do at the FCS level does not mean you're going to have success at the FBS level.

 

[grizfan95]

Marshall. UConn. UMass. Nevada.

Shit, even WKU has had some good recent success.

Marshall has won 36 games over the last 7 years. That is not success.

Yes, and they've played in a number of bowl games and won conference titles. That seems like success. Certainly success on par with SDSU who was used as an example of DII teams who've had success.

And none of this conversation alters or invalidates the point I made in the first post in the thread. FCS is getting watered down each and every year.

If winning the 2011 BEEF 'O' BRADY'S BOWL is your definition of success then we aren't even talking the same language.

 

[EverettGriz]

Precisely.

 

[Copper Griz]

How many f'ing times is this topic going to be discussed on this board. Let me make it simple for you bastards who keep getting on the short bus. The Griz are not in the FBS. They will not be in the next few years. Get over it!!! They have not won the NC at the FCS level in some time. Let's concentrate on winning where we are. Then you can discuss moving up. Until then, quit beating this dead and bloated horse. Of course - if we are facing sanctions and a playoff ban in be next few years, it might be a good idea right? Just had to throw that out there to give you a little hope.

 

[George Ferguson]

Copper, well put. Precisely executed post. I'm in the camp that wanted to remain FCS forever. But because of the changes to FCS and FBS in the last 36 months, a part of me wishes the Griz would have just made the jump about 10-15 years ago. However, that comes from the changes in college football, not because of this absurd notion by a few that the University of Montana FOOTBALL TEAM, is somehow TOO GOOD for FCS. That is a really moronic line of thinking. UM has won two national titles in 35 years of FCS/1-AA football. The Griz haven't won a chipper in over a decade? ON THE FIELD OF PLAY, how in the hell is that "TOO GOOD" for the rest of the FCS????? Now, if you're talking fan base or even Wash-Griz, yeah, sure maybe WE as Griz Nation like to think we're too good for the FCS. But in between the lines, goal-line-to-goal-line, I'm not certain what people are seeing to make that statement. And don't even get me started on facilities. There is no way UM's current football facilities are TOO GOOD for the FCS. Maybe the seating in the stadium and the Tailgates, but the FOOTBALL facilities. HELL NO.

 

[Sundown]

I made this comment in another thread, but think it may deserve it's own thread.

Since 1984, when msu last won their national title (nearly 30 years ago), how many FCS national champions are still playing FCS football and have not either announced a move to FBS or said that it's imminent in the next few years (ala James Madison)?


The answer is 7.

How many of those teams that moved up have achieved any modicum of success at the next level?

 

[kemajic]

The biggest difference is that those former national championship teams will never be national champions again.

Ask any BSU fan what they are more proud of, their '80 FCS NC, or their win over Oklahoma in the '07 Fiesta Bowl. Most have forgotten they even won an FCS NC and care less. Their perfect season in '09 with wins over Oregon and TCU probably tops their list, even without the NC.

 

[kemajic]

I made this comment in another thread, but think it may deserve it's own thread.

Since 1984, when msu last won their national title (nearly 30 years ago), how many FCS national champions are still playing FCS football and have not either announced a move to FBS or said that it's imminent in the next few years (ala James Madison)?


The answer is 7.

How many of those teams that moved up have achieved any modicum of success at the next level?

A few, not many. But how many want to come back to FCS?

 

[PlayerRep]

I made this comment in another thread, but think it may deserve it's own thread.

Since 1984, when msu last won their national title (nearly 30 years ago), how many FCS national champions are still playing FCS football and have not either announced a move to FBS or said that it's imminent in the next few years (ala James Madison)?


The answer is 7.

How many of those teams that moved up have achieved any modicum of success at the next level?

A few, not many. But how many want to come back to FCS?

How many believe it was a mistake to move up and/or having significant numbers of people who think that?

 

[kemajic]

Copper, well put. Precisely executed post. I'm in the camp that wanted to remain FCS forever. But because of the changes to FCS and FBS in the last 36 months, a part of me wishes the Griz would have just made the jump about 10-15 years ago. However, that comes from the changes in college football, not because of this absurd notion by a few that the University of Montana FOOTBALL TEAM, is somehow TOO GOOD for FCS. That is a really moronic line of thinking. UM has won two national titles in 35 years of FCS/1-AA football. The Griz haven't won a chipper in over a decade? ON THE FIELD OF PLAY, how in the hell is that "TOO GOOD" for the rest of the FCS????? Now, if you're talking fan base or even Wash-Griz, yeah, sure maybe WE as Griz Nation like to think we're too good for the FCS. But in between the lines, goal-line-to-goal-line, I'm not certain what people are seeing to make that statement. And don't even get me started on facilities. There is no way UM's current football facilities are TOO GOOD for the FCS. Maybe the seating in the stadium and the Tailgates, but the FOOTBALL facilities. HELL NO.

You're probably right; the UM program must be a second tier FCS program. Never mind the 254 wins and 32 playoff wins in the last 25 years; you can probably find many ahead of them.

 

[George Ferguson]

Kem, I'm very well aware of where you stand on this issue. But it's funny you use the Griz' record IN THE FCS as a source of pride, yet you detest the FCS and act like if you had your way, the Griz would have never been there to rack up all those wins in the first place. I'm not opposed to moving up anymore. I'm simply saying I don't get the mentality of "Too Good For the FCS" when: ON THE FOOTBALL FIELD, The Griz haven't won a national championship in 12 years and have only edit: TWO in 35. At least to the players and coaches, hasn't that been the point all along? If the Griz football team had another agenda other than to win FCS titles all these yeras, please share with us what it was.

 

[flowtowngriz]

We are caught in a lose/lose situation. If we stay in the FCS the teams we play are less desirable or lack of interest from fans. We should win about 90% of those games and we feel good because we normally do. Our loses are devastating because we should never ever lose to those teams AKA SUU but it does happen.
We might win a national championship and we feel good about ourselves here in Montana but no one outside the FCS gives a shit. Outside a very few programs no one cares about the FCS. It would be compared to winning the B/C state titles here in Montana. The ones who do know follow B/C football but most of Montana don't care. Only state title that gets air time is the class AA. We are the class B/C program of the nation even though we are division 1-A. No one cares outside the FCS.
The season tickets are getting easier to get now and we are easily getting single game tickets for some games. So the public interest is starting slide for Montana. Is it because of the off season problems or is it lack of good competition coming into the stadium. That can be debated but tickets are getting easier and easier to get year after year. What can we do to buck this trend.
Is it moving up and playing our peers institutes. Yes many people will want to see Boise, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado St, UNLV, Washington St and on on. Those games will be hot ticket games just look how much attention the App St game is getting. There not even playoff eligible this year but we know we have to play one of our better games to beat them. But the down side is that we will be a small fish in a bigger pond. More national exposure but no real national championships games. We could win a conference title but that is going to be our biggest achievement if we move up. Conference titles are almost a given in the BSC for Montana.
If we stay where we are we become like Georgia Southern most likely. A good program with a great stadium for the FCS. But when the tickets stop selling and people move on to the next big thing our stadium will be half to 3/4 full. Just like the basketball program.
If we move up there is no crystal ball that will tell us what will happen. Mostly likely we will be like Nevada. It will be hard for me to see us become Idaho or Boise St but there is that chance either way.

Comes down to this, Stay in the FCS and be happy with the outcome of the basketball program or move up and take a chance we will get our asses handed to us or become Nevada or even Boise St if everything goes right.
WHAT IS YOUR CHOICE?

 

[kemajic]

Kem, I'm very well aware of where you stand on this issue. But it's funny you use the Griz' record IN THE FCS as a source of pride, yet you detest the FCS and act like if you had your way, the Griz would have never been there to rack up all those wins in the first place. I'm not opposed to moving up anymore. I'm simply saying I don't get the mentality of "Too Good For the FCS" when: ON THE FOOTBALL FIELD, The Griz haven't won a national championship in 12 years and have only edit: TWO in 35. At least to the players and coaches, hasn't that been the point all along? If the Griz football team had another agenda other than to win FCS titles all these yeras, please share with us what it was.

There was no statement of pride, just facts in the record book that refute your claims. So you want to disregard wins and playoff wins and count only NCs, OK. And you're implying that 2 FCS NCs is lame, relatively. So how many current FCS programs, not commited to move up, have more? I'll answer it for you; one, YSU, and their last was 16 years ago. Keep trying.

 

[flowtowngriz]

Please stop saying we haven't won the chipper since 01'. We have been more championship games then any other team in the past 20 years. Yes we have fallen short a lot but stop acting like we haven't had success since the last chipper. That argument has no bite.

 

[WILDCATFAN]

I made this comment in another thread, but think it may deserve it's own thread.

Since 1984, when msu last won their national title (nearly 30 years ago), how many FCS national champions are still playing FCS football and have not either announced a move to FBS or said that it's imminent in the next few years (ala James Madison)?


The answer is 7.



Now, would anyone still like to make the claim that FCS football is as strong as ever?

How many of the teams that jumped to the FBS from FCS are REALLY successful? One?


But making the jump is just a wonderful idea

 

[grizfan95]

Besides Boise, which everyone knows is clearly the outlier, how are other FCS transition teams doing?

2012
Texas St: 3-8
Idaho: 1-11
Marshall: 5-7

 

[getgrizzy]

Besides Boise, which everyone knows is clearly the outlier, how are other FCS transition teams doing?

2012
Texas St: 3-8
Idaho: 1-11
Marshall: 5-7

la. tech 9-3
ark. st. 10-3
u.t.s.a. 8-4
w. kentucky 7-6

uconn 5-7
troy 5-7
f.i.u. 3-9
fl atl 3-9
s. bama 2-11
umass 1-11

 

[tampa_griz]

If winning the 2011 BEEF 'O' BRADY'S BOWL is your definition of success then we aren't even talking the same language.

I was at that game because I live near Tropicana Field and a good friend of mine down here is a Marshall alum. I wore a Griz shirt to have some fun with the Marshall fans. I was stunned that I didn't get any ribbing over it. So I initiated some friendly banter. Again, I was shocked.....of the nearly 100 or so fans I talked to......only one even knew about the '95 and '96 "title games" (he used finger quotes when he said it) that Marshall played in. They laughed at the idea of moving down to play lower competition for higher accolades in the lower division? Who wouldn't?

 

[tampa_griz]

If it's all about some mythical (and let's be frank -- it IS a mythical national title at this level), let's move down to DII and really kick ass!

I've never heard someone that clings to the "we'll never win NCs in FBS!" explain to me why we shouldn't move to D-II so we can win national championships all the time.

 

[getgrizzy]

If winning the 2011 BEEF 'O' BRADY'S BOWL is your definition of success then we aren't even talking the same language.

I was at that game because I live near Tropicana Field and a good friend of mine down here is a Marshall alum. I wore a Griz shirt to have some fun with the Marshall fans. I was stunned that I didn't get any ribbing over it. So I initiated some friendly banter. Again, I was shocked.....of the nearly 100 or so fans I talked to......only one even knew about the '95 and '96 "title games" (he used finger quotes when he said it) that Marshall played in. They laughed at the idea of moving down to play lower competition for higher accolades in the lower division? Who wouldn't?

boy if that doesn't deserve a "cool story bro" nothing does. the part about how he used finger quotes was especially riveting. you should have your own talk show.