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Watering down of FCS

EverettGriz

Well-known member
DONOR
I made this comment in another thread, but think it may deserve it's own thread.

Since 1984, when msu last won their national title (nearly 30 years ago), how many FCS national champions are still playing FCS football and have not either announced a move to FBS or said that it's imminent in the next few years (ala James Madison)?


The answer is 7.



Now, would anyone still like to make the claim that FCS football is as strong as ever?
 
EverettGriz said:
I made this comment in another thread, but think it may deserve it's own thread.

Since 1984, when msu last won their national title (nearly 30 years ago), how many FCS national champions are still playing FCS football and have not either announced a move to FBS or said that it's imminent in the next few years (ala James Madison)?


The answer is 7.



Now, would anyone still like to make the claim that FCS football is as strong as ever?
If you go back to the beginning, 1978, the answer is 11.

Nice cherry picking.
 
while teams move up a take a chunk of the f.c.s. talent with them, it's also worth noting that their are also more kids playing football now, so i don't think the quality of play has dropped off that much. we have ore players going to the n.f.l. now than we did at any time in the past. not sure if that's true throughout the f.c.s., its for sure true here.
 
Tod said:
EverettGriz said:
I made this comment in another thread, but think it may deserve it's own thread.

Since 1984, when msu last won their national title (nearly 30 years ago), how many FCS national champions are still playing FCS football and have not either announced a move to FBS or said that it's imminent in the next few years (ala James Madison)?


The answer is 7.



Now, would anyone still like to make the claim that FCS football is as strong as ever?
If you go back to the beginning, 1978, the answer is 11.

Nice cherry picking.

It's much more convenient for DHiW to pick an arbitrary year like 1984 that yields a better number for his statement.

78 is a good year since it was the first year of the DI-AA classification.
 
Tod said:
EverettGriz said:
I made this comment in another thread, but think it may deserve it's own thread.

Since 1984, when msu last won their national title (nearly 30 years ago), how many FCS national champions are still playing FCS football and have not either announced a move to FBS or said that it's imminent in the next few years (ala James Madison)?


The answer is 7.



Now, would anyone still like to make the claim that FCS football is as strong as ever?
If you go back to the beginning, 1978, the answer is 11.

Nice cherry picking.


Not certain this does anything but strengthen my argument. There's only 11 programs who've won a title playing at this level. Take whatever period your like to use and attempt to make an argument that the FCS has not been watered down over the last 5 years or so, during which the vast amount of those teams have gone FBS.

Another way to look at it: count the former title winners who've moved up -- or announced they're doing so -- over the last 5 years or so.

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Cats2506 said:
Tod said:
EverettGriz said:
I made this comment in another thread, but think it may deserve it's own thread.

Since 1984, when msu last won their national title (nearly 30 years ago), how many FCS national champions are still playing FCS football and have not either announced a move to FBS or said that it's imminent in the next few years (ala James Madison)?


The answer is 7.



Now, would anyone still like to make the claim that FCS football is as strong as ever?
If you go back to the beginning, 1978, the answer is 11.

Nice cherry picking.

It's much more convenient for DHiW to pick an arbitrary year like 1984 that yields a better number for his statement.

78 is a good year since it was the first year of the DI-AA classification.
i hate to break it to ya, but you and everett_griz are like twin brothers separated at birth.
 
KoolMoeDee said:
On the flipside. Couldn't it be argued that all these move-ups are watering down FBS ?

Yes that's a reasonable argument. The significant difference, of course, is that it's happening at the low end of the FBS level. In FCS, it's happening at the absolute highest level, and those teams are being replaced by former DIIs.


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EverettGriz said:
KoolMoeDee said:
On the flipside. Couldn't it be argued that all these move-ups are watering down FBS ?

Yes that's a reasonable argument. The significant difference, of course, is that it's happening at the low end of the FBS level. In FCS, it's happening at the absolute highest level, and those teams are being replaced by former DIIs.


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Like NDSU.

From my count, there have been 21 different FCS champions in 35 years of the I-AA/FCS playoffs. Of those 21, only 8 have either moved up or announced they will be moving up (GSU (6), ASU (3), Marshall (2), Boise (1), JMU (1), UL-Monroe (1), UMass (1), and WKU (1)). I haven't heard anything from NDSU saying they're going to move up any time soon, just their fans wishing and hoping. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_Football_Championship#Most_national_championships" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If anything what you just accepted as reasonable supports the notion that it's bad for both FCS and FBS for top-tier FCS teams to move up, because it's only watering down both divisions. Personally, I'd much rather my team be at the top of FCS than forever at the bottom of FBS.
 
EverettGriz said:
KoolMoeDee said:
On the flipside. Couldn't it be argued that all these move-ups are watering down FBS ?

Yes that's a reasonable argument. The significant difference, of course, is that it's happening at the low end of the FBS level. In FCS, it's happening at the absolute highest level, and those teams are being replaced by former DIIs.


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That's a good point. But at least former DII teams have a shot at a NC and playoffs in the FCS.
 
Screamin_Eagle174 said:
EverettGriz said:
KoolMoeDee said:
On the flipside. Couldn't it be argued that all these move-ups are watering down FBS ?

Yes that's a reasonable argument. The significant difference, of course, is that it's happening at the low end of the FBS level. In FCS, it's happening at the absolute highest level, and those teams are being replaced by former DIIs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Like NDSU.

From my count, there have been 21 different FCS champions in 35 years of the I-AA/FCS playoffs. Of those 21, only 8 have either moved up or announced they will be moving up (GSU (6), ASU (3), Marshall (2), Boise (1), JMU (1), UL-Monroe (1), UMass (1), and WKU (1)). I haven't heard anything from NDSU saying they're going to move up any time soon, just their fans wishing and hoping. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_Football_Championship#Most_national_championships" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If anything what you just accepted as reasonable supports the notion that it's bad for both FCS and FBS for top-tier FCS teams to move up, because it's only watering down both divisions. Personally, I'd much rather my team be at the top of FCS than forever at the bottom of FBS.


Funny how we can include NDSU's success (who almost certainly will move up in the next few years) in the discussion, but always have to ignore that of Boise State. Seems to me that if you're going to include the exceptions, that you've got to do so both ways, no?


So I'm clear on your point: Are you suggesting that since 8 teams who have gone FBS have accounted for roughly half of the FCS titles all time, that somehow weakens my argument? Frankly, I'd say you stated it better than I could.
 
The biggest difference is that those former national championship teams will never be national champions again.

:coffee:
 
grizfan95 said:
The biggest difference is that those former national championship teams will never be national champions again.

:coffee:


If it's all about some mythical (and let's be frank -- it IS a mythical national title at this level), let's move down to DII and really kick ass!

It HAS to be about more than that. It has to be about the student-athlete's experience competing against the best. It has to be about the fans having the opportunity to watch teams without 7 nautical directions in their name. It has to be about playing in better conferences to help support the other sports programs at the university (remember this isn't ONLY a football decision).

We'll probably never win a national title in basketball either. But I don't hear too many people clamoring for a move to DII, to give up the Big Dance experience, for a chance to win a national title.

Universities should compete with their peers. Right now, UM isn't doing that.
 
d2 teams moving to f.c.s. in that time frame and having success are n.d.s.u., s.d.s.u., e.w.u. to name a few. f.c.s. teams moving to f.b.s. and having similar success are? b.s.u. and?
 
EverettGriz said:
grizfan95 said:
The biggest difference is that those former national championship teams will never be national champions again.

:coffee:


If it's all about some mythical (and let's be frank -- it IS a mythical national title at this level), let's move down to DII and really kick ass!

It HAS to be about more than that. It has to be about the student-athlete's experience competing against the best. It has to be about the fans having the opportunity to watch teams without 7 nautical directions in their name. It has to be about playing in better conferences to help support the other sports programs at the university (remember this isn't ONLY a football decision).

We'll probably never win a national title in basketball either. But I don't hear too many people clamoring for a move to DII, to give up the Big Dance experience, for a chance to win a national title.

Universities should compete with their peers. Right now, UM isn't doing that.

If you believe that the 1-AA/FCS national championship is a mythical accomplishment then I dare you to say that to any player on the '95 or '01 teams. Or the thousands of fans that have flocked to Wa Griz since the team's success in the early 90's and onwards. Your blatant desire to have UM compete at the highest level so you can wank it to your buddies around the water cooler about how UM's big game against San Jose St this weekend means anything in the FBS picture is selfish.

Do you really think that just because we've slapped a tag on the University with D1 football that we'll get way better recruits than other teams in the Mountain West? Why hasn't the soccer team, or volleyball team seen success since they're D1?

We succeed because of the niche we're in. We are a top team in a division that still allows student athletes to realistically compete for a national championship and that means something to 18 year old kids.
 
If you believe that the 1-AA/FCS national championship is a mythical accomplishment

Settle down. No one claimed it was a mythical accomplishment. They are great accomplishments of which to be proud.

Regarding athletes, you're perfectly making my point. Yes, we WOULD get better athletes if we were in an FBS conference. I don't know of any coach in the country who would contend differently.
 
grizfan95 said:
EverettGriz said:
Marshall. UConn. UMass. Nevada.

Shit, even WKU has had some good recent success.

Marshall has won 36 games over the last 7 years. That is not success.


Yes, and they've played in a number of bowl games and won conference titles. That seems like success. Certainly success on par with SDSU who was used as an example of DII teams who've had success.

And none of this conversation alters or invalidates the point I made in the first post in the thread. FCS is getting watered down each and every year.
 
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