Watering down of FCS

[flowtowngriz]

If we stay put we will lose fans, if we move up we lose fans. The real question is what will bring back fans to the point it was 10 to 15 yeara ago. Paying 750 'dollars for a family of three to go see UNC, SUU, NDU,PSU,D-2 teams is way over priced. Msu games are going almost 60 now. Tickets sales are down just read the uofm website. This is a first year that you can individual game tickets. No waiting list anymore. Im not saying the sky is falling but we have change the trend. What should we do? Moving up will get home games that fans will be excited for but it cost us some wins. Stay put how do we keep fans paying. Open to ideas. Change pregrame and more bells and whisles. Fans are going stop paying high ticket prices for a water down FCS. games

 

[PlayerRep]

If we stay put we will lose fans, if we move up we lose fans. The real question is what will bring back fans to the point it was 10 to 15 yeara ago. Paying 750 'dollars for a family of three to go see UNC, SUU, NDU,PSU,D-2 teams is way over priced. Msu games are going almost 60 now. Tickets sales are down just read the uofm website. This is a first year that you can individual game tickets. No waiting list anymore. Im not saying the sky is falling but we have change the trend. What should we do? Moving up will get home games that fans will be excited for but it cost us some wins. Stay put how do we keep fans paying. Open to ideas. Change pregrame and more bells and whisles. Fans are going stop paying high ticket prices for a water down FCS. games

Why will we lose fans if we stay put? UM's attendance has gone up considerably over the years. Even if attendance seems a bit softer in the past year or two, there aren't attendance problems (and not winning and being in the playoffs may be the reason). Yes, ticket prices are high. They would be higher if we moved up. This is not the first year that individual tickets have been available. There have been some tiks available for individual games, or at least some games, every year that I can recall. They usually go on sale in August, I believe.

 

[tampa_griz]

However, at D-II, you would also lose lots of revenue, and there may not be any net savings at all for a school like UM, which has a good fan base and lots of ticket revenue. And, basketball and all other sports would be at the D-II level. Most people would prefer to keep basketball and other sports at D-I.

Saving money is not necessarily a reason not to move up. However, the cost of moving up is a big factor. If you don't have enough money to move up, and the teams are not as successful as they otherwise would be, then you have a double financial whammy. More costs, and declining revenues.

The arguments that some of you use make me laugh.

Not a chance. We'd win more at D-II. As I have been told.....over and over and over from the stay-put crowd.....more wins always equals more revenue. That's why we can't move up remember?....because we would have less wins....and therefore less revenue.....remember?

If you're laughing at these arguments then you're laughing at yourself. They're your arguments.

 

[kemajic]

However, at D-II, you would also lose lots of revenue, and there may not be any net savings at all for a school like UM, which has a good fan base and lots of ticket revenue. And, basketball and all other sports would be at the D-II level. Most people would prefer to keep basketball and other sports at D-I.

Saving money is not necessarily a reason not to move up. However, the cost of moving up is a big factor. If you don't have enough money to move up, and the teams are not as successful as they otherwise would be, then you have a double financial whammy. More costs, and declining revenues.

The arguments that some of you use make me laugh.

Not a chance. We'd win more at D-II. As I have been told.....over and over and over from the stay-put crowd.....more wins always equals more revenue. That's why we can't move up remember?....because we would have less wins....and therefore less revenue.....remember?

If you're laughing at these arguments then you're laughing at yourself. They're your arguments.

He's a lawyer - taught to argue both ways. Little does he know how much it makes us laugh.

 

[flowtowngriz]

The trend is that more and more tickets are available. Like I said the sky isn't falling but there is a trend that is happening. Tickets were down after a year to the semi game. Yes it could be off field stuff but it also can be lack of interest in th FCS competition. The trend is real I rather be proactive then reactive.

 

[kemajic]

But you save lots of money with less schollies, easier travel, etc. Saving money was a good reason to NOT move up before. Why is that no longer the case? If we moved down, we'd win more games. So far, I've been told that winning more games equals more fans. Again, why would winning less in FBS be a bad thing but winning more in D-II be a bad thing? You can't have it both ways.

Right on. And inch by inch we are moving to closer to DII all the time. Many are just in denial about it.

Your is not correct.

Huh?

 

[kemajic]

But you save lots of money with less schollies, easier travel, etc. Saving money was a good reason to NOT move up before. Why is that no longer the case? If we moved down, we'd win more games. So far, I've been told that winning more games equals more fans. Again, why would winning less in FBS be a bad thing but winning more in D-II be a bad thing? You can't have it both ways.

Right on. And inch by inch we are moving to closer to DII all the time. Many are just in denial about it.

Your is not correct. You are just blinded by your view, which rejects reality if it doesn't support your view. Many others have made this comment about you.

Pretty much pot calling kettle black, Jack.

 

[reinell30]

The trend is that more and more tickets are available. Like I said the sky isn't falling but there is a trend that is happening. Tickets were down after a year to the semi game. Yes it could be off field stuff but it also can be lack of interest in th FCS competition. The trend is real I rather be proactive then reactive.

The trend of tickets sales being down had to do a lot with the Phlu and O'Day firing's. Something that still doesn't make any sense...The players accused of wrong doing etc... all contributed. I believe season ticket sales last year would have been at an all time low had Engstrom fired Phlu and O'Day before the majority of season ticket holders had already re-newed.
Moving up or not at this point doesn't effect ticket sales...at this level, true Griz fans will continue to support.

 

[Grizzoola]

Well, a watered-down FCS would open up more chances for the Griz to win another NC, wouldn't it?

Any move up would have to involve MSU, which is the way the Regents would see it. BTW, is MSU as interested in moving up as we seem to be?

What FBS conference would we go to if we did move up? The Mountain West seems the most logical & it would be nice having Air Force, UNLV, CO State, Wyoming, even New Mexico, teams we could possibly beat, in WaGriz. (NAU beat UNLV & NDSU over CSU). But, Boise, San Jose State, Utah State, Nevada? Forget it, I say. It's a question of fans liking seeing these teams in WaGriz over FCS & the occasional D-!! teams, even if the Griz lost some. The WAC is out of the question, as I understand.

Then, of course, the finances. If the money can be raised by the GSA, etc., I say go for it, but it would involve more state investment, I think, and of course it's the vision the presidents, the MT University System, the legislators, & the regents have for UM & MSU. Maybe they are happy w/ the status quo, or maybe they can be influenced by popular demand & Griz & Cat support for moving up. :twocents:

 

[poorgriz]

The main benefit from the Griz moving up that I see happening is that then Griz fans can say "well at least we're losing to bigger name schools that down at the FCS level" :thumb:

As an outsider looking at the conversation that seems to happen 24/7 on this board, I just don't think those who want the Griz to move up care about anything more than the brand that comes with FBS programs. U of M will never be a power house program at that level. Sure, maybe become a Nevada, Wyoming, or MAYBE even a Boise State, but really? Boise will never be respected with the schools from PAC 12, BIG 10, BIG 12, SEC. Everyone outside of the Northwest looks at them as a cute little program that wins one big game a year. If that's what U of M wants, great, move up and best of luck. Montana will NEVER be able to compete with USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon, or even Washington! Is a recruit going to ever choose Missoula over any other Pac 12 city? Hell no.

And of course programs that moved up to FBS aren't going to admit they made a mistake. EVEN IDAHO WON'T ADMIT THAT AND LOOK AT THEM!! :shock: Be proud of being one of the be best at the FCS level. If the time comes where there is no choice but to move up, then move up with along with several other power FCS programs. But moving up now will not propel U of M to the national spotlight. It'll just be another FBS program out west that no one ever talks about. It's better to be the one of the best at something and than nothing at all.

Spot on.

Well if they do, then they obviously have a biased view. Boise State has gone 61-5 over the past five years. That's a 92.4 winning percentage. That is pretty incredible. Ya, I know they haven't had the most difficult schedules in all those years but they've beaten a hell of a lot of good teams, and certainly more than one per year. During a couple of those years, I truly believe they could have contended for a national title... had there been a real playoff system in the FBS.

All that being said, they are the perfect storm of FCS to FBS and I doubt that any team will ever move up and come close to their success. Definitely not UM.

 

[Herd]

You are sitting in the MWC footprint, correct? If they would take you, wouldn't you much rather play WY, CO State, Air Force, Boise, etc, etc? If you'd get accepted in the MWC, seems like a no brainer to go . . . those are teams you could beat on a regular basis.

Maybe a timeframe is needed, but it seems like you should be making your desire known the the MWC to see if there is interest. I would imagin that FB would blow up compared to playing today's competition.

 

[kemajic]

You are sitting in the MWC footprint, correct? If they would take you, wouldn't you much rather play WY, CO State, Air Force, Boise, etc, etc? If you'd get accepted in the MWC, seems like a no brainer to go . . . those are teams you could beat on a regular basis.

Maybe a timeframe is needed, but it seems like you should be making your desire known the the MWC to see if there is interest. I would imagin that FB would blow up compared to playing today's competition.

Of course, but we have loud Nervous Nellies among us that don't want their cheese moved. They would rather watch a blowout of Pan Handle St. than lose to Nevada in OT. Will probably be afraid to make the trip to Laramie next year....

 

[PlayerRep]

However, at D-II, you would also lose lots of revenue, and there may not be any net savings at all for a school like UM, which has a good fan base and lots of ticket revenue. And, basketball and all other sports would be at the D-II level. Most people would prefer to keep basketball and other sports at D-I.

Saving money is not necessarily a reason not to move up. However, the cost of moving up is a big factor. If you don't have enough money to move up, and the teams are not as successful as they otherwise would be, then you have a double financial whammy. More costs, and declining revenues.

The arguments that some of you use make me laugh.

Not a chance. We'd win more at D-II. As I have been told.....over and over and over from the stay-put crowd.....more wins always equals more revenue. That's why we can't move up remember?....because we would have less wins....and therefore less revenue.....remember?

If you're laughing at these arguments then you're laughing at yourself. They're your arguments.

No one has ever argued that more wins at D-II would increase revenue.

And, the argument that fewer wins at FBS would likely lead to lower attendance and related revenue does not equal UM should move down for more wins and more revenue.

This is a good example of the silly arguments/statements some posters make. First, you make up stuff that no one ever said, and, second, you make illogical statements.

 

[PlayerRep]

But you save lots of money with less schollies, easier travel, etc. Saving money was a good reason to NOT move up before. Why is that no longer the case? If we moved down, we'd win more games. So far, I've been told that winning more games equals more fans. Again, why would winning less in FBS be a bad thing but winning more in D-II be a bad thing? You can't have it both ways.

Right on. And inch by inch we are moving to closer to DII all the time. Many are just in denial about it.

Your is not correct. You are just blinded by your view, which rejects reality if it doesn't support your view. Many others have made this comment about you.

Pretty much pot calling kettle black, Jack.

Nope, I'm just talking about you, Kem.

 

[tampa_griz]

No one has ever argued that more wins at D-II would increase revenue.

And, the argument that fewer wins at FBS would likely lead to lower attendance and related revenue does not equal UM should move down for more wins and more revenue.

This is a good example of the silly arguments/statements some posters make. First, you make up stuff that no one ever said, and, second, you make illogical statements.

You just made that argument again. You keep saying that fewer wins in FBS would mean less revenue. That means there is more revenue in more wins. Thus, it makes sense to move down and get some more wins and some more money.

 

[AZGrizFan]

You are sitting in the MWC footprint, correct? If they would take you, wouldn't you much rather play WY, CO State, Air Force, Boise, etc, etc? If you'd get accepted in the MWC, seems like a no brainer to go . . . those are teams you could beat on a regular basis.

Maybe a timeframe is needed, but it seems like you should be making your desire known the the MWC to see if there is interest. I would imagin that FB would blow up compared to playing today's competition.

Of course, but we have loud Nervous Nellies among us that don't want their cheese moved. They would rather watch a blowout of Pan Handle St. that lose to Nevada in OT. Will probably be afraid to make the trip to Laramie next year....

Thanks for reminding me. Gotta start researching the trip to that metropolis. :lol:

 

[EverettGriz]

You are dating a beautiful women currently. You are proposing an upgrade to a Victoria Secret super model. Can you afford her and the high maintenance BS that goes with her

I like this analogy a lot, and it really highlights the purpose of me starting this thread. Believe it or not, this wasn't designed to be a Montana should move up thread (although it was almost certainly going to head in that direction).

The point of my original post -- a point NO ONE has countered -- is that the woman Montana is dating perhaps was beautiful at one time, and is still rather attractive. But the wrinkles are setting in, the weight's on the increase, and frankly the sex isn't anywhere near what it used to be. THAT is the point of the thread. Anyone who still considers the FCS a hottie is fooling themselves.

 

[indian-outlaw]

I was at that game because I live near Tropicana Field and a good friend of mine down here is a Marshall alum. I wore a Griz shirt to have some fun with the Marshall fans. I was stunned that I didn't get any ribbing over it. So I initiated some friendly banter. Again, I was shocked.....of the nearly 100 or so fans I talked to......only one even knew about the '95 and '96 "title games" (he used finger quotes when he said it) that Marshall played in. They laughed at the idea of moving down to play lower competition for higher accolades in the lower division? Who wouldn't?

I smell some bs here. I was at that 1996 game in Huntington and it was a big deal to the Marshal faithful. Maybe some of the current students don't appreciate their past success but I really doubt that their fan base just disregards those days with Randy Moss and Chad Pennington.

Everett is right about the watering down of the FCS. It has been a steady trickle since 78. That NC the cats won in 84 was big accomplishment as was BSU in 80 and the ISU win in 81. Hell truth be known the cats 76 dII championship had a better field of competition than either of our 95 and 01 chippers.

But their are still ~120 teams in the FCS with 63 scholarships and their will be up and coming programs to replace App State, Georgia Southern and anybody else who leaves. We belong in the FCS and their is no shame in competing there.

 

[PlayerRep]

No one has ever argued that more wins at D-II would increase revenue.

And, the argument that fewer wins at FBS would likely lead to lower attendance and related revenue does not equal UM should move down for more wins and more revenue.

This is a good example of the silly arguments/statements some posters make. First, you make up stuff that no one ever said, and, second, you make illogical statements.

You just made that argument again. You keep saying that fewer wins in FBS would mean less revenue. That means there is more revenue in more wins. Thus, it makes sense to move down and get some more wins and some more money.

Nope, making less revenue (and having less net revenue) moving up, has nothing to do with moving down. You are illogical. Do you really think the analysis for moving up is the same for moving down?

 

[BigPawzSharpClawz]

Copper, well put. Precisely executed post. I'm in the camp that wanted to remain FCS forever. But because of the changes to FCS and FBS in the last 36 months, a part of me wishes the Griz would have just made the jump about 10-15 years ago. However, that comes from the changes in college football, not because of this absurd notion by a few that the University of Montana FOOTBALL TEAM, is somehow TOO GOOD for FCS. That is a really moronic line of thinking. UM has won two national titles in 35 years of FCS/1-AA football. The Griz haven't won a chipper in over a decade? ON THE FIELD OF PLAY, how in the hell is that "TOO GOOD" for the rest of the FCS????? Now, if you're talking fan base or even Wash-Griz, yeah, sure maybe WE as Griz Nation like to think we're too good for the FCS. But in between the lines, goal-line-to-goal-line, I'm not certain what people are seeing to make that statement. And don't even get me started on facilities. There is no way UM's current football facilities are TOO GOOD for the FCS. Maybe the seating in the stadium and the Tailgates, but the FOOTBALL facilities. HELL NO.

Excellent...well stated! I think the FCS is watered down. It's designed money grab by the SEC & Big 12 but with the recent changes in that conference and with Texas down they dont have quite the influence they used to share. Pac 12 & Big Ten were forced into it along with the ACC by the cash.