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UM No. 1 in Conference Scoring Defense and Red Zone Defense
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Copper Griz
Well-known member
You can pack that stadium until it is busting at the seams cat fans. Does not matter. You can't win playoff games and sooner or later the bandwagon fans will tire of the underperformance year after year after year after year. Ash is a great guy and a phenomenally average coach. He has taken the cat program from the outhouse and moved it into the bathroom with running water. Denarius is gone after this year and your program is going to take a step back. Denarius is that good. I for one hope the cat program does well because I love a good rivalry. I also like seeing in state kids get scholarship opportunities and Bozeman is a good school academically (you do need to add some programs focusing on exercise science, health and nutrition. 95% of women cat fans are "big boned".) Until Ash is gone - your program will languish in mediocrity with poor playoff performance. The Griz are no better right now with their coaching situation and hopefully that will be rectified after this year. The Griz are in a far better position though - they can move on with no objections. Getting rid of Ash is going to be very difficult. Best of luck and see you in November.
I feel this is a fairly relevant place to put this, especially based on the seemingly new discussion in this thread, which is really what every thread here turns into anyways. So, here's Colter Nuanez's take on this. For those of you who don't know who he is, (although I'm assuming everybody does), he's a writer for the Bobcats, graduated from UM and his brother played here as well. Missoula native. Everything below this is written by him...I would put it in a quote thing, but I'm not quite sure how to do that soooo if anybody wants to fix that for me, feel free.
Here's something I will give my opinion on in this otherwise sadly comical thread. In terms of simply the football program, here's the factors to weigh. Several MSU coaches told me the key to recruiting this day in age comes down to two things: winning and facilities. Let's break it down. We will evaluate everything in a four-year sample size. As adults and long-time Big Sky fans, we tend to gravitate toward longer sample sizes of history. Griz supporters will always argue 7 national title game appearances in 15 years, 17 straight years in the playoffs, the streak, etc. But in all honesty,kids that will become Cats or Griz in the next four years only know about the last three or four years. No high school kid gives two ****** about the Montana 2001 national title team. It's the same thing as saying a kid picked UM over MSU because the Cats went 0-11 in 2000. It's irrelevant. Kids in high school now were like 6 years old in 2001.
Here's your factors.
1. Winning — Montana State is 40-15 dating back to the 2009 season if you include this year's 3-2 mark. During that time, Montana State has shared the last thre Big Sky titles, including the 2011 title with the Griz and posted a 27-6 record against Big SKy competition. During that same span, Montana is an identical 40-15 overall, 23-9 against Big Sky competition. Those marks are largely aided by UM's 14-1 record in 2009. Since 2010, Montana State is 33-10, Montana is 26-14. In the BIg Sky, the Bobcats have won 22 of 25 league games, while the Griz have posted a 15-10 mark. Edge: Bobcats
2. Facilities: Washington-Grizzly was long the crown jewel of the FCS. It still is among the best venues. But the additions to Bobcat Stadium coupled with the star power on the team — I think it's safe to say that DeNarius McGhee, Cody Kirk and Zach Minter have achieved star status around this state >> to any Griz since Marc Mariani left in 2008 — along with the wins and the image Coach Ash helps project makes Bobcat Stadium right up there with Washington-Griz. If you've ever stood on the sidelines at a Griz game, you know it's literally one of the loudest places in college football. It's louder than Husky Stadium, Reser Stadium (Oregon State) or Martin Stadium (Washington State). Those are my only frames of reference besides Qwest Field in Seattle and no one is touching that. But much of Wa-Griz loudness comes from the acoustics and the proximity to the field. When you are down in by the Sonny Holland end zone, it's third down, Zach Minter is waving his arms, Brad Daly digs in his cleats, it's a big game like Stony Brook last year, then Bobcat Stadium gets close. The stadiums are close in this evaluation, but Washington-Griz gets a slight edge. When you throw in all the other facilities — weight room, training room, locker rooms, etc., — Montana State blows Montana out of the water. Edge: Bobcats
3. Academics: I won't bore you with my full analysis, but if you get a liberal arts degree in something like, say, journalism, you are going to be poor. If you get a degree in something like, say, engineering or architecture or nursing, you are going to make a good living. Edge: Montana State
4. Administration: Again, I don't want to completely go nuts on the administration across the mountain so I will leave it at this: Royce Engstrom is lost and Waded Cruzado is a visionary. She has as much to do with the success of the football program as anyone and you have to love her because she puts equal amount of energy into all aspects of this university. It trickles down into the community. She's an amazing lady. Bozeman is lucky to have her.
5. Coaching: Delaney has revamped the attitude and made the program have more of his identity. Still, I'd take Ash in a landslide. As far as staffs go, I think Coach Gregorak is a fantastic coach. I think Heysohn (sp?) the new offensive coordinator has a brilliant mind. But I'd take Bo Beck teaching my defensive line to be mean, irreverent SOBs, Kane Ioane mentoring All-Americas left and right, Jason McEndoo working wizardry with young offensive linemen any day of the week. I think Montana State has a few of the most talented young assistants in the league. Edge: Bobcats
6. Community: I grew up in Missoula. I lived there from when I was 7 until I was 22. It's a great place. It's filled with character and characters. There's a lot going on if you like "original" things. But the quality of life in Bozeman is second to none. The sun shines more. There's hardly any traffic. You don't wait in line for anything. It's clean. Most importantly, it's a 15 minute drive from a sweet ski hill. A lot of you paint me as this guy who couldn't ever get another job if I wanted. I just got offered another newspaper job YESTERDAY. I choose to live here because I LOVE it here. This gig I have now is my avenue to build something unique with an endlessly high ceiling and get to live in paradise while doing it. Edge: Montana State in a landslide.
Montana is an institution and a football program that lives off of nepotism. That's coming from an alum. Will the Griz always be a formidable opponent? Certainly. There's too much tradition, too many advantages they have like Washington-Grizzly for them to completely fall off the map. But the only thing that makes Montana State the "little brother", at least when it comes to football, is the fact that many Bobcat fans believe it to be true. These are peer programs. Both sides of the rivalry would agree. And it's a fantastic thing for the state of Montana.
Here's something I will give my opinion on in this otherwise sadly comical thread. In terms of simply the football program, here's the factors to weigh. Several MSU coaches told me the key to recruiting this day in age comes down to two things: winning and facilities. Let's break it down. We will evaluate everything in a four-year sample size. As adults and long-time Big Sky fans, we tend to gravitate toward longer sample sizes of history. Griz supporters will always argue 7 national title game appearances in 15 years, 17 straight years in the playoffs, the streak, etc. But in all honesty,kids that will become Cats or Griz in the next four years only know about the last three or four years. No high school kid gives two ****** about the Montana 2001 national title team. It's the same thing as saying a kid picked UM over MSU because the Cats went 0-11 in 2000. It's irrelevant. Kids in high school now were like 6 years old in 2001.
Here's your factors.
1. Winning — Montana State is 40-15 dating back to the 2009 season if you include this year's 3-2 mark. During that time, Montana State has shared the last thre Big Sky titles, including the 2011 title with the Griz and posted a 27-6 record against Big SKy competition. During that same span, Montana is an identical 40-15 overall, 23-9 against Big Sky competition. Those marks are largely aided by UM's 14-1 record in 2009. Since 2010, Montana State is 33-10, Montana is 26-14. In the BIg Sky, the Bobcats have won 22 of 25 league games, while the Griz have posted a 15-10 mark. Edge: Bobcats
2. Facilities: Washington-Grizzly was long the crown jewel of the FCS. It still is among the best venues. But the additions to Bobcat Stadium coupled with the star power on the team — I think it's safe to say that DeNarius McGhee, Cody Kirk and Zach Minter have achieved star status around this state >> to any Griz since Marc Mariani left in 2008 — along with the wins and the image Coach Ash helps project makes Bobcat Stadium right up there with Washington-Griz. If you've ever stood on the sidelines at a Griz game, you know it's literally one of the loudest places in college football. It's louder than Husky Stadium, Reser Stadium (Oregon State) or Martin Stadium (Washington State). Those are my only frames of reference besides Qwest Field in Seattle and no one is touching that. But much of Wa-Griz loudness comes from the acoustics and the proximity to the field. When you are down in by the Sonny Holland end zone, it's third down, Zach Minter is waving his arms, Brad Daly digs in his cleats, it's a big game like Stony Brook last year, then Bobcat Stadium gets close. The stadiums are close in this evaluation, but Washington-Griz gets a slight edge. When you throw in all the other facilities — weight room, training room, locker rooms, etc., — Montana State blows Montana out of the water. Edge: Bobcats
3. Academics: I won't bore you with my full analysis, but if you get a liberal arts degree in something like, say, journalism, you are going to be poor. If you get a degree in something like, say, engineering or architecture or nursing, you are going to make a good living. Edge: Montana State
4. Administration: Again, I don't want to completely go nuts on the administration across the mountain so I will leave it at this: Royce Engstrom is lost and Waded Cruzado is a visionary. She has as much to do with the success of the football program as anyone and you have to love her because she puts equal amount of energy into all aspects of this university. It trickles down into the community. She's an amazing lady. Bozeman is lucky to have her.
5. Coaching: Delaney has revamped the attitude and made the program have more of his identity. Still, I'd take Ash in a landslide. As far as staffs go, I think Coach Gregorak is a fantastic coach. I think Heysohn (sp?) the new offensive coordinator has a brilliant mind. But I'd take Bo Beck teaching my defensive line to be mean, irreverent SOBs, Kane Ioane mentoring All-Americas left and right, Jason McEndoo working wizardry with young offensive linemen any day of the week. I think Montana State has a few of the most talented young assistants in the league. Edge: Bobcats
6. Community: I grew up in Missoula. I lived there from when I was 7 until I was 22. It's a great place. It's filled with character and characters. There's a lot going on if you like "original" things. But the quality of life in Bozeman is second to none. The sun shines more. There's hardly any traffic. You don't wait in line for anything. It's clean. Most importantly, it's a 15 minute drive from a sweet ski hill. A lot of you paint me as this guy who couldn't ever get another job if I wanted. I just got offered another newspaper job YESTERDAY. I choose to live here because I LOVE it here. This gig I have now is my avenue to build something unique with an endlessly high ceiling and get to live in paradise while doing it. Edge: Montana State in a landslide.
Montana is an institution and a football program that lives off of nepotism. That's coming from an alum. Will the Griz always be a formidable opponent? Certainly. There's too much tradition, too many advantages they have like Washington-Grizzly for them to completely fall off the map. But the only thing that makes Montana State the "little brother", at least when it comes to football, is the fact that many Bobcat fans believe it to be true. These are peer programs. Both sides of the rivalry would agree. And it's a fantastic thing for the state of Montana.
George Ferguson
Well-known member
I think Colter is a very good journalist. Bobcat Nation is luck to have a professional sports writer covering the Cats specifically for the website. He's also been freelancing MSU road games for the Trib too. I disagree with quite a bit of what he wrote in that, and I could counter quite a bit of what he said, including Marc Mariani leaving in 2008. He graduated in 2009. But beyond that, I think Colter would make a great columnist for a college football beat. He's very opinionated and likes to interject a lot of his own thoughts into his beat. That would serve him better as a fulltime columnist, but never-the-less, he's done a great job covering the Cats.
ABQCat said:
Actually, UM has not had a real waiting list for season tickets for years. The waiting list was mostly people trying to improve their seats.
Tickets became available several days before homecoming, only because tickets held back were then released. Generally, tickets for big games are held back, because important alums and sponsors come looking for tickets late and UM likes to have some in reserve for those requests. Also, student tickets are sometimes released later in the week if all are not taken. This is not new; it has been happening for years.
Great for MSU to be able to increase ticket prices, but UM's prices are much higher, and UM's ticket revenue dwarfs MSU's.
Yes, MSU enrollmen is up and UM's is down. However, that has nothing to do with ticket revenue and season ticket sales at UM.
Copper Griz
Well-known member
Well apparently Colter took his bong with him to Bozeman. Saying the facilities edge goes to the cats. Come one dude - you don't even have to walk in the stadiums to see and feel the difference. Weight room - yes, good God the Griz need a new weight room and training rooms, but atmosphere on game day is what really matters. Bozo has a bastardized high school stadium. Bout the architecture school to work for the love of God. Ash over Delaney - maybe with a big question mark? This season will tell and neither team has played a tough opponent yet. Let's get real - nepotism may exist with the U of M's program, but that has not been the issue with win/losses. Bobby Hauck got it done and I could not stand him for reasons that will go unsaid on this board. Pflu had the program turned around and headed right back in the winning direction everyone was used to. Arrests and the perfect shit storm took the program to it's knees. Bottom line - if the Griz had one coach in place for the last four years (and a select few players who did not act like clowns) we would not even be having this discussion. Get a good coach (fine leave the nepotism out if it) pay him well and the Griz continue to dominate. That Ash has not moved on from Bozeman is telling. Like average coach telling. Griz are still two years and a President away from returning to dominance. BTW - I agree with CN concerning the administration and hot fields that are increasing enrollment at MSU. U of M needs to get much better with attracting students and offering expanded programs. Come on Rolls - get your ass in gear. Maybe I am in denial, but honestly I am tired of this chicken little mentality. Griz had a down year last year and may again this year, but they will rebound. Way to much money on the line and boosters will be up the BOR's and Roll's arse if things don't change quickly.
(you do need to add some programs focusing on exercise science, health and nutrition. 95% of women cat fans are "big boned")
I LOLed at your joke, then I LOLed again because it's true.
I LOLed at your joke, then I LOLed again because it's true.
PTGrizzly said:
Yeah, when you ask anyone who has the edge in winning and facilities between UM and MSU, the answer is clearly MSU. With the best looking stadium in college football, the most wins in the last two weeks, and the most playoff wins in the last year (those are the only sample sizes high school kids care about), MSU wins easily. The Clippers clearly have a better program than the Lakers for many of the same reasons.
George Ferguson
Well-known member
The quoted piece was him posting on BN, jus like we all do. It was his opinion, not something he wrote. Colter is an outstanding sports writer, very well respected amongst other sports writers, and i hope he lands a fulltime gig again.
WaGriz4life
Well-known member
This.CDAGRIZ said:
ABQCat
Well-known member
Welcome to the party PR. Just a little late...
I said I was out, but in any reasonable person's opinion, PR's post should make me available again to post in this thread. I'll make one more post.
Two weeks before last year's Cat/grizz, I paid below face value for what I was told were "premier seats". It turns out these seats were in the nose bleed section, and there were empty seats everywhere. The face value on the ticket was $60 and I'm sure there was a booster commitment associated with that ticket, but I got them for $50 two week before the game. Again, half the seats in that section were empty because the boosters were too lazy to sell their own tickets for a reduced rate, and they certainly didn't want to go to a game that was a guaranteed loss. The point I'm making in this thread (that is clearly lost on you) is that the trends are only going in one direction. You are blind not so see it.
I'm glad you are so happy that UM's ticket revenues dwarfs MSU, because our overall budget numbers beg to differ. Our '12 athletics budget was $22.5M while UM was at $19.2M. Considering how much your ticket sales did over ours, you should be absolutely embarrassed by those numbers. Again, we are closing fast on ticket sales revenue and that will only put us ever further ahead of you on overall budget. Basically, our President is really kicking your President's ass on fundraising. Plain and simple.
Who was trying to associate ticket revenue with enrollment? My only point is that MSU has clearly passed UM as the premier University in the state and that kind of momentum is often passed to all elements of the institution (including athletics). Our latest $25M donation to the business school should really frighten even the most hardy of UM faithful.
In my humble opinion, the worst thing UM did was to get rid of O'Day. He was magic in both the politics and fundraising areas. In the meantime, enjoy watching us overtake you in pretty much every measurable metric over the next several years.
Cheers.
I said I was out, but in any reasonable person's opinion, PR's post should make me available again to post in this thread. I'll make one more post.
Two weeks before last year's Cat/grizz, I paid below face value for what I was told were "premier seats". It turns out these seats were in the nose bleed section, and there were empty seats everywhere. The face value on the ticket was $60 and I'm sure there was a booster commitment associated with that ticket, but I got them for $50 two week before the game. Again, half the seats in that section were empty because the boosters were too lazy to sell their own tickets for a reduced rate, and they certainly didn't want to go to a game that was a guaranteed loss. The point I'm making in this thread (that is clearly lost on you) is that the trends are only going in one direction. You are blind not so see it.
I'm glad you are so happy that UM's ticket revenues dwarfs MSU, because our overall budget numbers beg to differ. Our '12 athletics budget was $22.5M while UM was at $19.2M. Considering how much your ticket sales did over ours, you should be absolutely embarrassed by those numbers. Again, we are closing fast on ticket sales revenue and that will only put us ever further ahead of you on overall budget. Basically, our President is really kicking your President's ass on fundraising. Plain and simple.
Who was trying to associate ticket revenue with enrollment? My only point is that MSU has clearly passed UM as the premier University in the state and that kind of momentum is often passed to all elements of the institution (including athletics). Our latest $25M donation to the business school should really frighten even the most hardy of UM faithful.
In my humble opinion, the worst thing UM did was to get rid of O'Day. He was magic in both the politics and fundraising areas. In the meantime, enjoy watching us overtake you in pretty much every measurable metric over the next several years.
Cheers.
George Ferguson
Well-known member
ABC, you are a pretty decent poster, BUT, your last remark in your last post goes right back to Cat posters just looking for a fight and not really wanting to talk about anything relevant. "YOU FOOLS". and who exactly is "you"? the only way any poster on this board "got rid of O'Day" was if Royce Engstrom posts here.
ABQCat said:
I don't mean to hop into your argument, but UM could have 10 losing seasons in a row, lose to the Cats 10 years in a row, and have 25% empty seats, BUT guess what? MSU would still be lil' bro. MSU will always be lil' bro. The more Cat fans try to argue otherwise only solidifies it. Cat fans would probably catch a lot less crap if they just embraced it and moved on rather than writing novels on message boards about ski hill proximity and how Reno Sales is somehow as good as WGS.
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