"tough" versus "dumb"

[stubbins]

Was it poor preparation in 2009? 1995?

Had to be in 2006 against Umass...same as 2013.

This is embarrassing. Griz were outcoached in this game, players didn't rise up as well as they could have. Got beat by a jv school. Simple as that.

Just admit that the Griz are not even close to what they once were, it'll be easier on you.

Or blame not wearing sleeves.....

I've heard the above bolded said far too many times the last two seasons!

You're a smart MF'er, stubby! :thumb:

And you're a sexy bastard....

We all have our thing....

 

[Grizo406]

Was it poor preparation in 2009? 1995?

Had to be in 2006 against Umass...same as 2013.

This is embarrassing. Griz were outcoached in this game, players didn't rise up as well as they could have. Got beat by a jv school. Simple as that.

Just admit that the Griz are not even close to what they once were, it'll be easier on you.

Or blame not wearing sleeves.....

I've heard the above bolded said far too many times the last two seasons!

You're a smart MF'er, stubby! :thumb:

And you're a sexy bastard....

We all have our thing....

I hear that ALL THE TIME, and it never gets old!

Thanks!!

 

[1Griz_Fan]

The polar plunge and Clark Fork dip were stupid and should have been during the offseason. The majority of Griz players playin macho men tough guys going sleeveless and wearing inadequate clothing for the conditions was ignorant as was not warming up on the sidelines with jackets and heaters.

Saying it wasn't cold out when it was subzero out doesn't make anyone tough, players and fans alike, it makes them foolish. I think some of these may have been factors at least in that the other team was better prepared for the elements while the Griz on some level expected them not to be (I don't care what Delenay said otherwise) and their tough guy image of playing with little to no winter clothing was meant to psych the visitors out but clearly did not.

 

[1Griz_Fan]

-10 wind chill for the appy game, snowing hard, ground blizzard on the field no sunshine and into darkness. 90 percent of the Griz players wore no sleeves of any kind that day. Griz beat App. State. This argument is getting lame.

Clearly this is not the Griz of old...or are they. Someone mentioned in a prior post somewhere that the Griz are like 1-3 in the 4 coldest games at Wash-Griz. How could that be when the majority wore no sleeves of any kind in those games. They should have won them out since they never lose when it is freezing cold and they are (not) bundled up. Just saying.

Also, a look at the attendance records and I would be willing to bet the Griz have lost more than they have won in the top five and maybe ten games. ff:

 

[talon38]

OK, so let me get this straight, I've been scanning through this thread. Did you all say the Griz had NO heaters or ponchos on the sidelines for this game? I can get the short sleeves, but at the EWU game, both sides had heaters and ponchos on the sidelines. and every player had those hand slings with hand warmers in them. Just curious?

 

[druhag]

To me this has nothing to do with how the game was won or lost, that appeared to me to have happened in a five or six minute stretch in the second quarter. It is far more symbolic then anything else to me. I am pretty early in my career as a consultant in a knowledge based profession. I am consistently able to out complete more experienced and accomplished consultants for contracts because when I go into interviews, I spend an enormous amount of time focusing and preparing on the things I can control, even down to the very small, seemingly inconsequential details. I don't always get the job but I always make the decision hard. As for the CCU coach, you don't get to where he is in the business world by passing up even minute opportunities that you can control. It was clear that team did everything they could to prepare for the things they could control, even down to the smallest detail.

The reality is, in cold weather, your body requires more energy and more fluids. The colder it is, the more energy your body puts into retaining its heat. Wearing parkas on the sidelines helps your body retain energy, energy that can be available for other uses. Someone on the grizzly coaching staff, the head coach or trainers or someone, should have understood that in those conditions it was critical to stay warm during downtime to preserve energy in order to preform at the highest level possible. I was there, I saw them on the sideline during the game, and it pissed me off. Did this affect the game? Well, I did see a number of griz players cramping up, but I think it came down to those few moments in the second quarter. It was more symbolic to me. This coaching staff did not consider all the details including the need to stay warm to preform at a high level, they did not take every preparation over things they could control. To me that is an absolute must for high level athletes, a must for high level coaches. It also flys in the face of my personal values in the way I approach competition professionally. So yeah, I think it was dumb.

 

[PlayerRep]

This is an interesting discussion. My view is that CC handled the weather conditions very well. My impression is that UM handled the weather conditions fairly well too. I suppose, as this discussion points out, it is possible that UM didn't address the cold properly. The cold appeared to be impact JJ's throwing in that he wore gloves. My guess is that the gloves did impact his throwing. I think the ball slipped out of his hand when he threw the pick, and the gloves probably impacted that.

Wasn't Jordan hit right as he threw the ball, causing it to be a lame duck?

The video shows that JJ was hit from the back by the DE as he threw.

 

[mcg]

The reality is, in cold weather, your body requires more energy and more fluids. The colder it is, the more energy your body puts into retaining its heat. Wearing parkas on the sidelines helps your body retain energy, energy that can be available for other uses. Someone on the grizzly coaching staff, the head coach or trainers or someone, should have understood that in those conditions it was critical to stay warm during downtime to preserve energy in order to preform at the highest level possible. I was there, I saw them on the sideline during the game, and it pissed me off. Did this affect the game? Well, I did see a number of griz players cramping up, but I think it came down to those few moments in the second quarter. It was more symbolic to me. This coaching staff did not consider all the details including the need to stay warm to preform at a high level, they did not take every preparation over things they could control. To me that is an absolute must for high level athletes, a must for high level coaches. It also flys in the face of my personal values in the way I approach competition professionally. So yeah, I think it was dumb.

I don't think it was a coincidence that the Griz lost the game at the end of the second quarter, when their unmanaged exposure to the cold was the greatest.

 

[GrizPony]

To me this has nothing to do with how the game was won or lost, that appeared to me to have happened in a five or six minute stretch in the second quarter. It is far more symbolic then anything else to me. I am pretty early in my career as a consultant in a knowledge based profession. I am consistently able to out complete more experienced and accomplished consultants for contracts because when I go into interviews, I spend an enormous amount of time focusing and preparing on the things I can control, even down to the very small, seemingly inconsequential details. I don't always get the job but I always make the decision hard. As for the CCU coach, you don't get to where he is in the business world by passing up even minute opportunities that you can control. It was clear that team did everything they could to prepare for the things they could control, even down to the smallest detail.

The reality is, in cold weather, your body requires more energy and more fluids. The colder it is, the more energy your body puts into retaining its heat. Wearing parkas on the sidelines helps your body retain energy, energy that can be available for other uses. Someone on the grizzly coaching staff, the head coach or trainers or someone, should have understood that in those conditions it was critical to stay warm during downtime to preserve energy in order to preform at the highest level possible. I was there, I saw them on the sideline during the game, and it pissed me off. Did this affect the game? Well, I did see a number of griz players cramping up, but I think it came down to those few moments in the second quarter. It was more symbolic to me. This coaching staff did not consider all the details including the need to stay warm to preform at a high level, they did not take every preparation over things they could control. To me that is an absolute must for high level athletes, a must for high level coaches. It also flys in the face of my personal values in the way I approach competition professionally. So yeah, I think it was dumb.

How do you consult in a non-knowledge based area? Grunts and hand signals? :lol:

 

[druhag]

To me this has nothing to do with how the game was won or lost, that appeared to me to have happened in a five or six minute stretch in the second quarter. It is far more symbolic then anything else to me. I am pretty early in my career as a consultant in a knowledge based profession. I am consistently able to out complete more experienced and accomplished consultants for contracts because when I go into interviews, I spend an enormous amount of time focusing and preparing on the things I can control, even down to the very small, seemingly inconsequential details. I don't always get the job but I always make the decision hard. As for the CCU coach, you don't get to where he is in the business world by passing up even minute opportunities that you can control. It was clear that team did everything they could to prepare for the things they could control, even down to the smallest detail.

The reality is, in cold weather, your body requires more energy and more fluids. The colder it is, the more energy your body puts into retaining its heat. Wearing parkas on the sidelines helps your body retain energy, energy that can be available for other uses. Someone on the grizzly coaching staff, the head coach or trainers or someone, should have understood that in those conditions it was critical to stay warm during downtime to preserve energy in order to preform at the highest level possible. I was there, I saw them on the sideline during the game, and it pissed me off. Did this affect the game? Well, I did see a number of griz players cramping up, but I think it came down to those few moments in the second quarter. It was more symbolic to me. This coaching staff did not consider all the details including the need to stay warm to preform at a high level, they did not take every preparation over things they could control. To me that is an absolute must for high level athletes, a must for high level coaches. It also flys in the face of my personal values in the way I approach competition professionally. So yeah, I think it was dumb.

How do you consult in a non-knowledge based area? Grunts and hand signals? :lol:

Good question, maybe you should ask the current coaching staff.

 

[PlayerRep]

The reality is, in cold weather, your body requires more energy and more fluids. The colder it is, the more energy your body puts into retaining its heat. Wearing parkas on the sidelines helps your body retain energy, energy that can be available for other uses. Someone on the grizzly coaching staff, the head coach or trainers or someone, should have understood that in those conditions it was critical to stay warm during downtime to preserve energy in order to preform at the highest level possible. I was there, I saw them on the sideline during the game, and it pissed me off. Did this affect the game? Well, I did see a number of griz players cramping up, but I think it came down to those few moments in the second quarter. It was more symbolic to me. This coaching staff did not consider all the details including the need to stay warm to preform at a high level, they did not take every preparation over things they could control. To me that is an absolute must for high level athletes, a must for high level coaches. It also flys in the face of my personal values in the way I approach competition professionally. So yeah, I think it was dumb.

I don't think it was a coincidence that the Griz lost the game at the end of the second quarter, when their unmanaged exposure to the cold was the greatest.

Actually, the unmanaged exposure was greatest in the 2d half, when UM was playing its best, especially in the 4th q.

 

[ranco]

JJ was hit on the throw. I'm no scientist, but it sure looked like our defense was frozen solid for much of the game.

 

[66volvo]

Well...what if we would have won the game? Then all the arm chair QB's would be sayin' that we just out-toughed them in our harsh climate because we can handle the cold, right?

Face it, CCU averaged 43 points per game all season and put 42 on us Saturday. They pretty much had their way with us. We lost to a team that was better in all aspects.

Movin' on.

 

[mcg]

The reality is, in cold weather, your body requires more energy and more fluids. The colder it is, the more energy your body puts into retaining its heat. Wearing parkas on the sidelines helps your body retain energy, energy that can be available for other uses. Someone on the grizzly coaching staff, the head coach or trainers or someone, should have understood that in those conditions it was critical to stay warm during downtime to preserve energy in order to preform at the highest level possible. I was there, I saw them on the sideline during the game, and it pissed me off. Did this affect the game? Well, I did see a number of griz players cramping up, but I think it came down to those few moments in the second quarter. It was more symbolic to me. This coaching staff did not consider all the details including the need to stay warm to preform at a high level, they did not take every preparation over things they could control. To me that is an absolute must for high level athletes, a must for high level coaches. It also flys in the face of my personal values in the way I approach competition professionally. So yeah, I think it was dumb.

I don't think it was a coincidence that the Griz lost the game at the end of the second quarter, when their unmanaged exposure to the cold was the greatest.

Actually, the unmanaged exposure was greatest in the 2d half, when UM was playing its best, especially in the 4th q.

I think there is more time in the cold in the first half because the team runs out from the tunnel, lines up for the National Anthem, then warms up a bit. In the second half they come out just a few minutes before the half starts. Thus there is more exposure in the first half.

Doesn't matter really, during the last five minutes of the second half the defense was utterly unable to force a punt. It would have been more accurate for me to say "The game was lost at the end of both halfs, when the unmanaged exposure was greatest".

 

[PlayerRep]

The reality is, in cold weather, your body requires more energy and more fluids. The colder it is, the more energy your body puts into retaining its heat. Wearing parkas on the sidelines helps your body retain energy, energy that can be available for other uses. Someone on the grizzly coaching staff, the head coach or trainers or someone, should have understood that in those conditions it was critical to stay warm during downtime to preserve energy in order to preform at the highest level possible. I was there, I saw them on the sideline during the game, and it pissed me off. Did this affect the game? Well, I did see a number of griz players cramping up, but I think it came down to those few moments in the second quarter. It was more symbolic to me. This coaching staff did not consider all the details including the need to stay warm to preform at a high level, they did not take every preparation over things they could control. To me that is an absolute must for high level athletes, a must for high level coaches. It also flys in the face of my personal values in the way I approach competition professionally. So yeah, I think it was dumb.

I don't think it was a coincidence that the Griz lost the game at the end of the second quarter, when their unmanaged exposure to the cold was the greatest.

Actually, the unmanaged exposure was greatest in the 2d half, when UM was playing its best, especially in the 4th q.

I think there is more time in the cold in the first half because the team runs out from the tunnel, lines up for the National Anthem, then warms up a bit. In the second half they come out just a few minutes before the half starts. Thus there is more exposure in the first half.

Doesn't matter really, during the last five minutes of the second half the defense was utterly unable to force a punt. It would have been more accurate for me to say "The game was lost at the end of both halfs, when the unmanaged exposure was greatest".

Even if the "unmanaged cold" was an important factor, which I don't believe it was, overly cold players are not going to get recharged by being inside for 15 minutes at halftime. UM clearly played much better in the second half against CC, and was still playing well at the end of the 4th quarter. Most of CC's yardage in the 2d half, and its TD, came in the first drive which ended at 9:33 of the 3d q. 76 yards. After that, CC gained 102 yards the rest of the half. Sorry, but the facts don't support the argument that some of you are trying to make.

 

[NativeGriz]

OK, so let me get this straight, I've been scanning through this thread. Did you all say the Griz had NO heaters or ponchos on the sidelines for this game? I can get the short sleeves, but at the EWU game, both sides had heaters and ponchos on the sidelines. and every player had those hand slings with hand warmers in them. Just curious?

Only one side came prepared for this game. Our coaching staff got schooled in multiple areas. The CCU coaching staff put a lot of smart thought in getting it right, plus they pounced when they saw we were down. MD was out of his league. The CCU coach should be coach of the year for FCS. The Griz had an amazing group of athletes that won a lot of games in spite of the coaching and should have beat EWU at home, but EWU's coach is also very good and obviously knew how to prepare his team for cold weather. It really is unbelievable we didn't at least have ponchos for the CCU game. Really really stupid.

 

[NativeGriz]

I agree PR with part of that. it was warmer 2nd half, we had the sun on our sidelines 2nd half and if you drink warm water your body temp can come up very quickly.

I believe the CCU staff took their foot off the gas and ran more, calculating they just need one or two first downs and the game would be won. On one play they accidently ran out of bounds for short gain and the long TD was likely not expected by CCU.

 

[jodcon]

People hate the "foot off the gas" analogy but it does factor in, my feeling is what happens is teams get too conservative and it takes them out of their rhythm. For example EWU getting to the line and standing there for 20 seconds, then Adams rolls out and falls down at the first sign of trouble instead of trying to make a play like he did the first 3 quarters, they get consumed with the clock and not making mistakes. And all their plays are geared towards the middle of the field and all their passes are short, safe throws, even though Shoota did force a throw that cost them a turnover.

The play where Ross fumbled looked like the same thing, you could tell he wanted to let it go in the worst way but couldn't pull the trigger because he had "play it safe" in his head, didn't work out too well when he fumbled on the tackle though.

I'm not saying teams are deliberately trying to stall and not score, I just think when they switch to the mentality where they stand around and wait for the play clock to wind down, then call 90% ultra-conservative plays it throws them off the rhythm that gave them the big lead in the first place and lets other teams sneak back into games.

My opinion, I'm sure others disagree.

 

[GrizPony]

Jack we both played defense. Wouldn't you agree that it is harder to tackle with cold hands than to play offense? Yes receivers and QB's need warm hands also, but they usually have gloves and muffs. Defenders don't. As I watched, I felt like our D didn't want to be on the field most of the 2nd quarter. They were just hoping to get to halftime without giving up a bunch of points because they needed to warm up. Was it ultimately responsible for the loss, who knows. But I think it was a factor and was a piss poor plan on our part to act "tough".

 

[PlayerRep]

Jack we both played defense. Wouldn't you agree that it is harder to tackle with cold hands than to play offense? Yes receivers and QB's need warm hands also, but they usually have gloves and muffs. Defenders don't. As I watched, I felt like our D didn't want to be on the field most of the 2nd quarter. They were just hoping to get to halftime without giving up a bunch of points because they needed to warm up. Was it ultimately responsible for the loss, who knows. But I think it was a factor and was a piss poor plan on our part to act "tough".

No, I never found it difficult to tackle in cold weather. It one's mindset and mental attitude. I was more like Bienneman; I had more confidence playing/tacking against teams/players that I thought I/we were tougher than, so I actually hit harder more often, knowing that it might dislodge the ball or cause them to not won't to be on the field. I participated in many football games and practices as well as many rugby games in cold weather over the years, including snow, freezing rain, wind, and bad-footing. Some conditions were worse than Saturday's. Tackling was never a problem for me, or any of the tougher guys I played with. Cold weather/hands was tougher for catching ball and holding onto it.

Didn't a number of our defensive players have gloves on?