This is EXACTLY what I expected

[Grizfan-24]

By the way humility is a two way street. I could have expected jackarse fans from UNC to parade in here and behave like they have never been there before. I expect it. I see it all the time. Doesn't reflect poorly on anyone, but if there is enough stink there must be something rotten in Denmark.

First and foremost I don't expect UNC fans to come in here and admit their win was aided by some questionable fouls and calls in the second half. Who wants to admit that in the first place.

I guess being a former official myself, there are three truths to officiating basketball games at any level.
1. There is no such thing as a perfectly officiated basketball game. Officiating is a human endeavor, conducted by well trained individuals. If players make mistakes, so will officials. All an official can do is be in the best possible place at all times to make the calls the way you see them.
2. Emotion should never be apart of officiating a basketball game, much like a pitcher, an official should never show anger, frustration and unsettledness on the floor.
3. Every effort must be given to ensure that games are called the same way in the first minute through the last minute of the game.

I watched a bit of the second half again last night, I can't attest that #3 was true. But I could see at certain points in the second half that a couple of the officials were clearly flustered by the environment. That isn't uncommon, but as a former official (who albeit wasn't very good) I can say that it is pretty easy to become emotionally connected to the environment. These are for the most part professional and highly skilled officials, and in part I am not going to throw them under the bus. I don't think it was personal, but at a few points in the second half it 'seemed' the environment got to them. Not an evaluator of any type, just an observation.

I guess from a griz fan's perspective there was a lot of that second half that would suggest #3, and that is what is frustrating. What everett griz hit on, there might be a few calls that aren't that don't go our way or UNC's way, but if there is a perception from impartial observers that #3 existed, then as an official evaluating your game you have a problem. You won't get a #3 admission from an official, but deep down most of them know if that occurred.

So thusly UNC enjoy your trip to the dance, savor it because they don't come along very often. But don't come in here after your announcers remarks last year and say we are delusional or biased or whatever because it is a two way street. Enjoy the trip.

 

[elverno]

This is a most entertaining thread I must say! I'm a huge Griz fan and UM alum. I watched the game the other night and I agree that it was horribly officiated; one of the worst I've ever witnessed. This is not to take anything away from UNC. I was impressed with that team, not just Bieber, I mean Bietzel. Impressive defensively, great ball movement and exceptional shooters all around.

The object of the game is to make hoops. UNC did and the Griz didn't...Game over! UNC won! The Griz had plenty of opportunities to win the game. What embarrassed me most was the Griz perimiter play on offense. I can't believe all the open looks they passed on and when they did shoot it was another brick. Hell, they threw up enough bricks they could've built UNC a nice new college level arena!

 

[Potomac Griz]

The object of the game is to make hoops. UNC did and the Griz didn't...Game over! UNC won! The Griz had plenty of opportunities to win the game. What embarrassed me most was the Griz perimiter play on offense. I can't believe all the open looks they passed on and when they did shoot it was another brick. Hell, they threw up enough bricks they could've built UNC a nice new college level arena!

Actually the Griz hit more FGs than UNC and shot a higher percentage from the field as well as the FT line. The Griz scored more points on FGs than UNC did. Much like the NAU game...

FG:
Griz: 21-48 (43.8%)
UNC: 18-43 (41.8%)

3pt:
Griz: 6-18 (33.3%)
UNC: 8-20 (40%)

FT:
Griz: 12-19 (63.2%)
UNC: 21-35 (60%)

 

[elverno]

I would venture to say that most came in the 1st half. When it counted down the stretch UNC had the superior shooters.

 

[Potomac Griz]

I would venture to say that most came in the 1st half. When it counted down the stretch UNC had the superior shooters.

Actually the Griz hit more FGs in the 2nd half too. They did shoot a lower percentage than UNC in the 2nd half, but hit more FGs, and outscored them minus the FTs in the 2nd half. The higher FG% can probably be directly attributed to not being allowed to play defense without fear of fouling out since most of our players who got significant minutes were in foul trouble throughout the 2nd half (as is evident by the 20 free throws UNC shot in the 2nd half).

2nd Half FG:
Griz: 10-24 (41.7%)
UNC: 9-18 (50%)

2nd Half 3pt:
Griz: 4-13 (30.8%)
UNC: 5-9 (55.6%)

2nd Half FT:
Griz: 5-10 (50%)
UNC: 11-20 (55%)

 

[OptimusPrime]

Why couldn't UM adapt, when they should have obviously known that the game was being called tighter and more stringent? Why did they continually put themselves in position to be called for crappy fouls? You have to change your style if your current one isn't working. Don't give me "well no matter what they would have tried, wouldn't have worked." That's a cop out, you should change your style to the flow of the game. Oh, John Henson from UNC looks and is built like a 12 yr old.

 

[Potomac Griz]

Why couldn't UM adapt, when they should have obviously known that the game was being called tighter and more stringent? Why did they continually put themselves in position to be called for crappy fouls? You have to change your style if your current one isn't working. Don't give me "well no matter what they would have tried, wouldn't have worked." That's a cop out, you should change your style to the flow of the game. Oh, John Henson from UNC looks and is built like a 12 yr old.

Did you watch the game? If so, what could Cherry have done differently on his last foul? Just got out of the way of Beitzel and let him hit a three?

What could Wood have done when he was running down the court not touching Beitzel? Just dive out of the way and allow Beitzel to lay it up?

Watch the game, and you'll see why it's not just Griz fans that say the Griz got screwed in this game. Even some of your own Cat fans are saying the same thing.. There's a reason for that, it's not just sour grapes.

 

[Gaeilge1]

There is one thing that all of us can agree on no matter whom you root for in this conference. That is that the referee-ing in the BSC is notoriously bad. Historically this has been a problem. However having watched BSC games for almost 40 years it appears that it is getting worse.

This should be a concern not only to fans but to players, coaches and administrators alike across the Big Sky Conference. The impact of bad officiating on a consistent basis can not be overestimated. No one can argue that players and coaches get comfortable with what they are doing once they understand how a game is being called. In a conference season this becomes almost automatic and teams know almost inherently how the game will be officiated. I believe that this affects the poor showing that BSC teams often have in mid season, (bracket busters), and NCAA tournament games, thereby contributing to the conference's low RPI year in year out. As a team and a player once you have adjusted your game to a specific style of officiating it is very difficult to change. Certainly, there is going to be a home court advantage which will never be done away with completely, but that concept seems to have been taken to new heights in the BSC this year.

A previous post provided information on whom to contact at BSC offices to express displeasure over the way the BSC tournament was officiated. If you are going to do this might I urge you to also recommend to league officials that they review how they are training officials and reviewing game officiating on a regular basis because whatever they are doing right now is simply not adequate.

 

[Zootown Rox]

I would venture to say that most came in the 1st half. When it counted down the stretch UNC had the superior shooters.

I would disagree Kareem came out and hit a pair of threes - the Griz were good in the clutch, but the refs made sure they didn't get close by gifting UNC trips to the line and negating the Griz's great defensive effort while allowing UNC to hack Cherry and the others as they went to the rim.

When it counted UNC was given FT and the Griz were given fouls.

 

[Zootown Rox]

I am an a s s w h o l e.

Thanks for letting us know.

 

[br fan]

Why couldn't UM adapt, when they should have obviously known that the game was being called tighter and more stringent? Why did they continually put themselves in position to be called for crappy fouls? You have to change your style if your current one isn't working. Don't give me "well no matter what they would have tried, wouldn't have worked." That's a cop out, you should change your style to the flow of the game. Oh, John Henson from UNC looks and is built like a 12 yr old.

Did you watch the game? If so, what could Cherry have done differently on his last foul? Just got out of the way of Beitzel and let him hit a three?

What could Wood have done when he was running down the court not touching Beitzel? Just dive out of the way and allow Beitzel to lay it up?

Watch the game, and you'll see why it's not just Griz fans that say the Griz got screwed in this game. Even some of your own Cat fans are saying the same thing.. There's a reason for that, it's not just sour grapes.

Dex-OP has been stirring the pot for two days claiming the Griz should have overcome the officiating and beat an "average" (his term) Northern Colorado team. You're not going to have a rational discussion with a Cat fan who feels it necessary to denfigrate Northern Colorado in order to minimize what the Griz accomplished this season.

I hate games that have controversial officiating. You get Griz fans arguing what if, and Bears fans feeling they need to defend the officiating or else it might otherwise diminish their win. It doesn't. A very good Bears team beat a very good Griz team. Beitzel's 3 with 3 seconds on the shot clock was clutch. It's too bad controversial officiating even had to come into it.

Congratulations and Good Luck to the Bears. You deserve it

 

[WILDCATFAN]

Thanks for making my point, CWR.

I think I'll help Everett prove his point more, Im a Weber State fan and I believe both NAU and UM got incredibly homered by the refs both nights, when I was watching the championship game, I was almost glad Weber didnt make it, because I would have really been pissed if I had to sit through 2 hours of Weber getting homered as badly as the Griz did.

Yes, but you have repeatedly said you hate UNC, so you're not objective. At least Everrit doesn't say he hates UNC.

Please show me where I said I "hate" UNC, I may have wanted them to lose the most, but it doesnt mean I hate them, I want Montana to lose the most in football, (who in the conf doesnt?) but I dont hate Montana

 

[OptimusPrime]

Why couldn't UM adapt, when they should have obviously known that the game was being called tighter and more stringent? Why did they continually put themselves in position to be called for crappy fouls? You have to change your style if your current one isn't working. Don't give me "well no matter what they would have tried, wouldn't have worked." That's a cop out, you should change your style to the flow of the game. Oh, John Henson from UNC looks and is built like a 12 yr old.

Did you watch the game? If so, what could Cherry have done differently on his last foul? Just got out of the way of Beitzel and let him hit a three?

What could Wood have done when he was running down the court not touching Beitzel? Just dive out of the way and allow Beitzel to lay it up?

Watch the game, and you'll see why it's not just Griz fans that say the Griz got screwed in this game. Even some of your own Cat fans are saying the same thing.. There's a reason for that, it's not just sour grapes.

Dex-OP has been stirring the pot for two days claiming the Griz should have overcome the officiating and beat an "average" (his term) Northern Colorado team. You're not going to have a rational discussion with a Cat fan who feels it necessary to denfigrate Northern Colorado in order to minimize what the Griz accomplished this season.

I hate games that have controversial officiating. You get Griz fans arguing what if, and Bears fans feeling they need to defend the officiating or else it might otherwise diminish their win. It doesn't. A very good Bears team beat a very good Griz team. Beitzel's 3 with 3 seconds on the shot clock was clutch. It's too bad controversial officiating even had to come into it.

Congratulations and Good Luck to the Bears. You deserve it

I don't remember saying "average team" but I love how you threw in "his term" to validate your point. Well done. :thumb: What is denfigrate? Curve ball there making up new words, sly, but I like it.
OMG, I am not trying to minimize what the Griz did this season, J H C people, I've been saying they have been the best team all year! NoCo is good, have been all year, but not better than UM. All I've read is how the Griz should have won but couldn't because of officiating. Then HOW THE HELL did they lead for most of the game?!?! Blaming shitty officiating is a cop out. They choked and they certainly had the BEST chance of anyone at actually winning a game in the tourney. Don't make up things I supposedly said like you do with words to make a point. The BSC isn't exactly a high end conference as you all like to point out and by not having the BEST team in the tourney doesn't exactly help the cause. Should have never lost to Eastern, and should have never lost to NoCo. This team had the highest ceiling than anyone, and they blew it. Shoot better, hit your FTs, and have Selvig show up, this would be all moot.
Good Luck to NoCo. I'm done posting on this. :msugrad:

 

[Potomac Griz]

OP - Did you watch the game? Not asking to be a smart ass btw. I'm just wondering if you watched the game or are just assuming it wasn't as bad as many of us are saying (including fans from other programs).

 

[OptimusPrime]

OP - Did you watch the game? Not asking to be a smart ass btw. I'm just wondering if you watched the game or are just assuming it wasn't as bad as many of us are saying (including fans from other programs).

I did. I remember saying out loud in front of the dog about Cherry's last foul "that was a bad call." I also remember Sam the Eagle (Tinks) looking pretty confused afterward. I haven't said that there wasn't shitty officiating, all I've been saying is this team choked and trying to deflect that with the officiating is sad. Do you need validation from other programs and people to make points? Can you not have ideas of your own? What does it matter what they say? This team ran out of gas the last couple of weeks. They choked, just like the Cats did against NAU.

 

[Potomac Griz]

I did. I remember saying out loud in front of the dog about Cherry's last foul "that was a bad call." I also remember Sam the Eagle (Tinks) looking pretty confused afterward. I haven't said that there wasn't shitty officiating, all I've been saying is this team choked and trying to deflect that with the officiating is sad. Do you need validation from other programs and people to make points? Can you not have ideas of your own? What does it matter what they say? This team ran out of gas the last couple of weeks. They choked, just like the Cats did against NAU.

Not looking for validation at all, just pointing out to the people on here that seem to think it's just sour grapes from Griz fans that it's not just Griz fans who think the officiating was shitty. It's not deflecting to point out that the officiating definitely played a huge part in the outcome of the game, just like it did for NAU vs UNC. When you are basically playing 8 vs 5 out there with most of your players in foul trouble it's a little tough to pick up the W (not impossible though).

I do agree that the game was still winnable. Unfortunately I think the shitty officiating really got into the heads of some of our players and they had a real tough time being aggressive on D and on the boards for fear of picking up a 5th foul. The Griz offense has a tendency to fall apart when our D suffers. We no longer get transition buckets, and it goes downhill from there pretty quickly.

I wish that the officiating wasn't an issue... if the Griz had lost to UNC and it was even semi-even, we wouldn't be having this discussion now, and there wouldn't be this cloud of controversy surrounding UNC's first trip to the Big Dance (at least on the message boards). All teams in the Big Sky have experienced horrible lop sided officiating like that....it just sucks a whole lot more when it helps end the season of 2 very good teams like it did this year.

BTW... Sam the Eagle...? Dammit now I'm going to think of that each time I see Tinkle

 

[OptimusPrime]

BTW... Sam the Eagle...? Dammit now I'm going to think of that each time I see Tinkle

We've been calling him Sam the Eagle for years. AND YOUR WELCOME!!

 

[gobears2010]

I just re-watched the game, I'll answer your questions for you.

Did you watch the game? If so, what could Cherry have done differently on his last foul? Just got out of the way of Beitzel and let him hit a three?

Beitzel had a step on Cherry at that point, so Cherry had two options:

1. Trust his helpside defense.
2. Foul

Cherry chose option number 2 and hip checked Beitzel, that's not the ref's fault, that's Cherry's fault.

What could Wood have done when he was running down the court not touching Beitzel? Just dive out of the way and allow Beitzel to lay it up?

At that point in the game, the Griz were down by 4 with 45 seconds left. They were going to have to foul anyway and Beitzel was NOT giving up the ball in that situation. If anything, the fact that the foul was called when it was benefited Montana, because UNC wasn't able to run any more time off the clock. Sure, it fouled Wood out, but it's not like he was Montana's top weapon on either end of the court. Would you have preferred UNC run 30 more seconds off the clock and have the Griz down at least 4 with 15 seconds left?

 

[Umista]

Gobears. Like you, I re- read your previous posts. Conclusion? You are an idiot. Posting 'bad news bears" drivil-dravil on e-griz is similiar to peeing into the wind.

Further, we got out REFd. Plain and simple. You may have a photographic memory but you don't have film!

 

[Spanky]

Fellas....I don't understand why it is so difficult to accept that we got beat by a better team. We had our chances, but lost which is what happens in competitive athletics. As for the refs....why are you so suprised that they aren't very good? In my view, they reflect the caliber of the Big Sky Conference and the leadership thereof.