Strong

[goatcreekgriz]

Nope. You are completely wrong. There is no duty not to chase someone who had hit you. Jeez, how dumb can you be? If you were ever a defense attorney, I can see why they ran you out of the job. The crucial time and facts are what occurred right before Strong hit him. Was the guy threatening or was he not threatening?

If the guy had his hands or his fists up, why didn't he protect himself. It was one punch. How does a smaller guy, who is not a boxer, land a punch against a heavier guy with his hands/fists up, and knock him down with one punch? Doesn't make sense. I understand how a sucker punch can take someone down.

But it wasn’t “one punch.”
So your “moments before” analysis might work for the first punch but not the second one while on the ground. I thought one of the witnesses said he hit his head on the ground following the first punch and that’s when the skull fracture occurred, so I doubt he was jumping up with another balled fist.
If I were Stitt I’d suspend indefinitely pending further investigation, and I would have announced it 2 days ago

I already commented on the second punch. Pay attention.

So, do you think Strong got down on his knees and hit an unconscious guy lying on the roadway? Or, if Strong just so flexible that he can thrown a punch standing up against a guy with his head on the ground? Or how to you think the second punch was thrown? Just curious.

I want to see what the other 2 witnesses say. Not saying Strong isn't in the soup, but there is more information to come.

Oh I see you want us to pay attention to your irrelevant analysis and ignore the “bad fact.” Got it

I think the second punch was thrown after chasing him down from a house party at 2am while the guy was already on the ground. Pay attention.

What any of us think about that second punch matters not at all. What matters is what the witnesses are willing to testify about regarding the second punch, and the story of some witnesses is not publicly known at this time. I'll pay attention to them after they speak.

 

[goarmy]

Arresting officer is Teayan Dillon. Is that a girl's name?

"Teyana
Girl's name meaning, origin, and popularity" Different spelling.

What's that got to do with anything?

 

[Ursus1]

So PR. you are saying this not true????

Four elements are required for self-defense: (1) an unprovoked attack, (2) which threatens imminent injury or death, and (3) an objectively reasonable degree of force, used in response to (4) an objectively reasonable fear of injury or death.

I don't know what the elements of the law are in WA. Do you?

In this situation, under some of the fact scenarios I have mentioned, unprovoked would have little or nothing to do with the situation. Jeez, the WSU guy apparently hit Strong and others, and had him or another in a headlock or choke hold, that is surely provocation. If that isn't provocation, what is. I have seen nothing to indicate that Strong provoked what the WSU did.

If he punched him right after choke/headlock I can see it as a defense ...but if he ran after him he provoked the next confrontation (the seconds before the damaging punches occurred). Had he not chased him ( with apparently two other guys to boot) the event never would have occurred so he was not acting in self defense....more self offense so to speak (dumbed it down to football terms for your CTE benefit)

I give up....you will never admit anything you said could be wrong but at least some egriz readers will now see you are a dipshit for thinking you know everything and other people who don't agree with you are wrong.

 

[grizghost]

...what if the guy try to out run Strong and Co..and he apparently couldn't and put his hands up and Strong hammer him..than his company finished him off..to be honest the punch on the ground is what does it for me..sorry he should off the team, period! Not that my opinions matter but this is huge distraction before a big game..we see if Stitt can keep it together!

 

[garizzalies]

What are the “more facts” people keep waiting for? I realize that’s a Rumsfeld question (you don’t know what you don’t know), but what do you expect?
What more do you need to know if you’re coach Stitt?

A consistent witness statement would be nice. There are like four different witnesses all telling a different story.

For a jury, sure. But for coach Stitt? His own player admitted to chasing a dude down from a house party after midnight and hitting him a second time while on the ground, fracturing his skull.
I wouldn’t wait for some school committee to gather all the facts. I don’t need any more facts than that, and I don’t need a committee to fall back on. This isn’t one of those situations to me. I realize the goal of the committee is to cut the coach out of the decision but while the committee drags their feet I’d at least announce my starting line up—the committee has nothing to do with that

 

[Plainsman]

"What is the legal definition of self defense?
n. the use of reasonable force to protect oneself or members of the family from bodily harm from the attack of an aggressor, if the defender has reason to believe he/she/they is/are in danger. Self-defense is a common defense by a person accused of assault, battery or homicide."

Was Strong afraid that this muscular weight thrower was going to hit him? If so, self-defense.

Which proves my point under the Ursus scenario. IF the kid had run from the house, it could be convincingly argued by the prosecutor that Strong no longer had a reason to believe he was in danger of further bodily harm. IF Strong then chose to chase the kid down and resume a confrontation that had ended, a prosecutor could reasonably argue that he then became the aggressor, and, as an aggressor, his right to claim self defense was forfeit, even if the kid, when caught, turned and assumed what could then be argued was a defensive position. IF Strong had not chased the kid, it can be reasonably argued that none of the serious physical bodily harm to the kid would have occurred. Of course, a good defense attorney could still assert self defense on Strong's behalf and might be able to sell it.

I hope that the facts here do not support this scenario or that the facts are sufficiently confusing due to multiple differing witness statements and witness confusion that the prosecutor may decide just to let this case go.

 

[PlayerRep]

Arresting officer is Teayan Dillon. Is that a girl's name?

"Teyana
Girl's name meaning, origin, and popularity" Different spelling.

What's that got to do with anything?

It's a fact. You got a problem with facts?

 

[bearister]

Confusing reporting for sure. Article headings said he's been charged and body says nothing of the sort. All other outlets have not said he's been charged, yet so now I'm wondering.

It’s the chasing, finding, and second punch that worry me. If this is true, especially with witnesses saying he hit the guy again while down, then this will not end well for Strong. This will cost him his spot on the team. And might have a cost for the other two players present. Not to mention the WAZZU athlete in the hospital. I pray that he ends up being ok, otherwise this gets real ugly real fast.

It’s just stupid and wasteful of God given talent a potential. Unless the Pullman PD is really quick at investigating, then Strong’s playing career is over.

This...I could be wrong, but I would think the first punch was self defense, but the second one wouldn't be...and the article says that Strong admits to hitting him a second time when he tried to get up. This second punch also seams to be what caused the head injury.

Where did you get that last piece about the second hit being the cause? I’m curious

Somewhere else on this board it is stated that the fall after the first blow caused the head injury.


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[bhumble]

So PR. you are saying this not true????

Four elements are required for self-defense: (1) an unprovoked attack, (2) which threatens imminent injury or death, and (3) an objectively reasonable degree of force, used in response to (4) an objectively reasonable fear of injury or death.

I don't know what the elements of the law are in WA. Do you?

In this situation, under some of the fact scenarios I have mentioned, unprovoked would have little or nothing to do with the situation. Jeez, the WSU guy apparently hit Strong and others, and had him or another in a headlock or choke hold, that is surely provocation. If that isn't provocation, what is. I have seen nothing to indicate that Strong provoked what the WSU did.

If he punched him right after choke/headlock I can see it as a defense ...but if he ran after him he provoked the next confrontation (the seconds before the damaging punches occurred). Had he not chased him ( with apparently two other guys to boot) the event never would have occurred so he was not acting in self defense....more self offense so to speak (dumbed it down to football terms for your CTE benefit)

I give up....you will never admit anything you said could be wrong but at least some egriz readers will now see you are a dipshit for thinking you know everything and other people who don't agree with you are wrong.

:thumb:

 

[goarmy]

Arresting officer is Teayan Dillon. Is that a girl's name?

"Teyana
Girl's name meaning, origin, and popularity" Different spelling.

What's that got to do with anything?

It's a fact. You got a problem with facts?

There was at least one additional officer mentioned in the affidavit, too. An officer Gordon. I don't know why you think either officer's gender is relevant.

 

[PlayerRep]

Under Ursus's assumptions, I believe Ursus has you there PR. If Strong could have remained at the house and not have had to defend himself there further against the kid, he likely would have been safe from attack. If (and this fact is yet to be conclusively established, it appears) he pursued and confronted the kid, he could be seen to have become the aggressor and self defense then becomes a much tougher sell. Time and further investigation will tell. For my bona fides, in the distant past, I worked as a criminal defense attorney for several years (yeah, scum of the earth - I've heard every lawyer joke known to man.)

Guess I am not as stupid as PR suggests and thst with my assumptions on place some one who knows about law sees my point.....but regardless I will bet PR's ego would never admit I was on to something.

It's because Plainsman is even more stupid than you. What he said made zero sense, and is just plain wrong.

Yes PR, it is clear that you think anyone who disagrees with you is stupid. But that doesn't make it true, does it? Your comment that there is no duty not to chase someone who has punched you is totally irrelevant. If Strong made the decision to chase him when he could have simply remained in the house and ended the whole incident, then Strong can, under the law, be seen to have become the aggressor and therefore to have forfeited his claim to a strong self defense, defense. (Whether the facts support this scenario have yet to be established, I will freely admit.)
And you assume I was chased out of the profession. You know what they say about assumptions, right? You don't bolster your arguments or your position by calling names and making assumptions not based in knowledge or fact.

I disagree with you now, and have in the past, not because we don't agree, but because you often say incorrect and stupid things. Jeez, if Strong had stayed in Missoula, none of this would have happened. But he didn't. So he's in trouble and we are all discussing and speculating.

 

[Copper Griz]

Arguing this thing makes my head hurt. Out at two in the morning - dumb. Fight breaks out and you are not inebriated. Try to break it up - dumb. Get hit in the head and then chase down the perp - dumb. Dumb dumb dumb. Scholarship athletes who represent any school have added visibility and responsibility. Fair? Maybe not, but that is life. You get the privilege to represent your team and the university - you also have to take the responsibility with it. He let his team down, the coaches down and failed himself as well. I don’t want to hear the yes but crowd. Self defense or not means shit.

 

[PlayerRep]

So PR. you are saying this not true????

Four elements are required for self-defense: (1) an unprovoked attack, (2) which threatens imminent injury or death, and (3) an objectively reasonable degree of force, used in response to (4) an objectively reasonable fear of injury or death.

I don't know what the elements of the law are in WA. Do you?

In this situation, under some of the fact scenarios I have mentioned, unprovoked would have little or nothing to do with the situation. Jeez, the WSU guy apparently hit Strong and others, and had him or another in a headlock or choke hold, that is surely provocation. If that isn't provocation, what is. I have seen nothing to indicate that Strong provoked what the WSU did.

If he punched him right after choke/headlock I can see it as a defense ...but if he ran after him he provoked the next confrontation (the seconds before the damaging punches occurred). Had he not chased him ( with apparently two other guys to boot) the event never would have occurred so he was not acting in self defense....more self offense so to speak (dumbed it down to football terms for your CTE benefit)

I give up....you will never admit anything you said could be wrong but at least some egriz readers will now see you are a dipshit for thinking you know everything and other people who don't agree with you are wrong.

I view you as the dipshit, and you clearly know little or nothing about the law. Lots of people don't agree with me. Doesn't bother me at all. But people, like yourself, who repeatedly say incorrect and dumb things sometimes draw my attention. It's funny how people like you can't see the distinction.

 

[PlayerRep]

Arresting officer is Teayan Dillon. Is that a girl's name?

"Teyana
Girl's name meaning, origin, and popularity" Different spelling.

What's that got to do with anything?

It's a fact. You got a problem with facts?

There was at least one additional officer mentioned in the affidavit, too. An officer Gordon. I don't know why you think either officer's gender is relevant.

I think all facts are relevant. Surprising that you apparently don't. Do you think all police officers are the same?

 

[PlayerRep]

Arguing this thing makes my head hurt. Out at two in the morning - dumb. Fight breaks out and you are not inebriated. Try to break it up - dumb. Get hit in the head and then chase down the perp - dumb. Dumb dumb dumb. Scholarship athletes who represent any school have added visibility and responsibility. Fair? Maybe not, but that is life. You get the privilege to represent your team and the university - you also have to take the responsibility with it. He let his team down, the coaches down and failed himself as well. I don’t want to hear the yes but crowd. Self defense or not means shit.

Don't think it was 2 in the morning. Thought I read the call to police was 2 minutes after midnight.

Why is trying to break up a fight stupid? Especially if some jerk is hitting your brother or your friend.

 

[bearister]

"How much force does it take to break the skull?

Quoting a bike-helmet study published in the Journal of Neurosurgery: Pediatrics, he wrote that 235 kg (520 pounds) or 2,300 newtons of force would be needed to crush a human skull, almost twice as much force as human hands could possibly muster."

Boxing style punch from someone as fit as Strong can deliver 500 to 900 lbs of force. Apparently it has a lot to do with core strength. This is from actual boxers delivering the blow. While you or I could at best deliver 250 to 300, it is not unreasonable to assume that a D 1 safety is fit and strong enough to break the 500 lb line.

And his skull was fractured, not crushed. A fracture is a lineal break in the bone, not the destruction of it.


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[bearister]

Where did you get that last piece about the second hit being the cause? I’m curious

I think it says falling to the ground after the first hit is what probably cracked his skull. That is a very serious condition.

http://static.lakana.com/bmg-kecitv-media-us-east-1/document_dev/2017/10/24/Affidavit%20of%20Probable%20Cause_1508870976791_9077338_ver1.0.pdf

The affidavit is kind of damning. Whitnesses and a confession. At the very best, Strong is going to be off the team. It saddens me to see a young life (possibly two) ruined over a house party fight. It’s stupid. If Strong is charged and convicted, he will never lead a normal life. He will have a felony on his record. Worse, a violent felony. Most employers will not hire him for anything. Not to mention he would be expelled. Most colleges have trouble having violent felons as students. If this sticks... it’s a true tragedy. Another wasted young life.

It isn't really a confession. As I said earlier, what Strong "confessed" to will be trumped if he and his witnesses have a strong recollection of the self-defense elements.

I know this didn't occur, but if the WSU guy swung first, and Strong then decked him with one punch, and the guy fractured his skull when he hit the roadway, then there's no assault of any degree for Strong.

It's an admission, but not a confession because it includes assertions of fact about self defense that negate the crime.


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[bearister]

So it’s ok to punch somebody blooding his lip and causing a black eye then run out the door get chased, get pasted, and become the victim because of the severity caused by the punch. Anyone who just got whacked would chase him down and give him the once for all. Sounds like the kid was looking for a fight a found one. Strong will pay a heavy penalty for something almost anyone reading would have done.

Based on the injury, if this is determined to be an assault, it would be a felony if it occurred in Montana.


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[goatcreekgriz]

"What is the legal definition of self defense?
n. the use of reasonable force to protect oneself or members of the family from bodily harm from the attack of an aggressor, if the defender has reason to believe he/she/they is/are in danger. Self-defense is a common defense by a person accused of assault, battery or homicide."

Was Strong afraid that this muscular weight thrower was going to hit him? If so, self-defense.

Which proves my point under the Ursus scenario. IF the kid had run from the house, it could be convincingly argued by the prosecutor that Strong no longer had a reason to believe he was in danger of further bodily harm. IF Strong then chose to chase the kid down and resume a confrontation that had ended, a prosecutor could reasonably argue that he then became the aggressor, and, as an aggressor, his right to claim self defense was forfeit, even if the kid, when caught, turned and assumed what could then be argued was a defensive position. IF Strong had not chased the kid, it can be reasonably argued that none of the serious physical bodily harm to the kid would have occurred. Of course, a good defense attorney could still assert self defense on Strong's behalf and might be able to sell it.

I hope that the facts here do not support this scenario or that the facts are sufficiently confusing due to multiple differing witness statements and witness confusion that the prosecutor may decide just to let this case go.

Reminds me of Barry Scheck's surmise during his portion of the defense closing argument in O.J.'s trial, which I have always believed was a big factor in O.J's acquittal:

"How many cockroaches do you need in a bowl of spaghetti before you throw out the whole bowl of spaghetti?"

[pause]

"Just one."

 

[garizzalies]

But it wasn’t “one punch.”
So your “moments before” analysis might work for the first punch but not the second one while on the ground. I thought one of the witnesses said he hit his head on the ground following the first punch and that’s when the skull fracture occurred, so I doubt he was jumping up with another balled fist.
If I were Stitt I’d suspend indefinitely pending further investigation, and I would have announced it 2 days ago

I already commented on the second punch. Pay attention.

So, do you think Strong got down on his knees and hit an unconscious guy lying on the roadway? Or, if Strong just so flexible that he can thrown a punch standing up against a guy with his head on the ground? Or how to you think the second punch was thrown? Just curious.

I want to see what the other 2 witnesses say. Not saying Strong isn't in the soup, but there is more information to come.

Oh I see you want us to pay attention to your irrelevant analysis and ignore the “bad fact.” Got it

I think the second punch was thrown after chasing him down from a house party at 2am while the guy was already on the ground. Pay attention.

What any of us think about that second punch matters not at all. What matters is what the witnesses are willing to testify about regarding the second punch, and the story of some witnesses is not publicly known at this time. I'll pay attention to them after they speak.

You’re all a bunch of god damn lawyers arguing over the million possibilities for a trial which may or may not occur in a year or so. This is a FB board and all we really care about is whether he’ll start/play or not. We’ll never agree on a decision from 12 random jackasses who are too dumb to avoid jury duty. But we can all (I’m sure except for one) agree that he should not play this week, so why isn’t Stitt holding a huge presser 75 style to announce it? (Kidding not kidding, sorta).