Strong

[PlayerRep]

Justin wasn’t chasing him to fight him, he was just gonna give him a stern talking to. Lol

At the end of the day, the most important fact is not why Strong was chasing him. It was what occurred in the time/seconds before the punch. If the guy was just standing there with hands down saying please don't hit me, and not being threatening, then the facts are bad for Strong.

While this didn't happen, if Strong chased the guy, and the guy stopped and started to pull a gun, and Strong punched him, would any of you be doubting self-defense.

I'm not saying Strong is in a good position based on what we know so far, but it will be important to get all the facts, and hear what all of the witnesses say.

 

[Boscoe]

In Montana a person must reasonably believe that the force is necessary to prevent the use of unlawful force. If someone is acting in self-defense then they are not using unlawful force. Thus, if someone is acting in self-defense to your attack, you cannot claim self-defense.

Washington may be different, though.

 

[bhumble]

He should be booted. I'm a little surprised it hasn't happened yet.

Why would you boot someone who hasn't even been charged with anything? Don't think the athletic code would even permit that.

The police report alone is dam damming.

Only the portion provided by 2 Friends of the WSU guy. Not Strong’s. Probably not what the other 2 witnesses will say. How can you be so stupid and naive? You need to wait for all of the witnesses and facts.

What if it turns out the guy doesn’t have a fractured skull? Or that a shot put hit him in the head at practice?

Read the report again counselor. Pay particular attention to what Strong told the officer.

 

[garizzalies]

Nope. You are not correct. What happened in the seconds before Strong’s punch is what will decide self defense. You obviously know less about the law than football. And that is saying something.

Question.....how it was an "unprovoked attack" if he was chasing the guy? Isn't that a part of a self defense claim? Had he not chased the guy it would not have occurred.

Under Ursus's assumptions, I believe Ursus has you there PR. If Strong could have remained at the house and not have had to defend himself there further against the kid, he likely would have been safe from attack. If (and this fact is yet to be conclusively established, it appears) he pursued and confronted the kid, he could be seen to have become the aggressor and self defense then becomes a much tougher sell. Time and further investigation will tell. For my bona fides, in the distant past, I worked as a criminal defense attorney for several years (yeah, scum of the earth - I've heard every lawyer joke known to man.)

Nope. You are completely wrong. There is no duty not to chase someone who had hit you. Jeez, how dumb can you be? If you were ever a defense attorney, I can see why they ran you out of the job. The crucial time and facts are what occurred right before Strong hit him. Was the guy threatening or was he not threatening?

If the guy had his hands or his fists up, why didn't he protect himself. It was one punch. How does a smaller guy, who is not a boxer, land a punch against a heavier guy with his hands/fists up, and knock him down with one punch? Doesn't make sense. I understand how a sucker punch can take someone down.

But it wasn’t “one punch.”
So your “moments before” analysis might work for the first punch but not the second one while on the ground. I thought one of the witnesses said he hit his head on the ground following the first punch and that’s when the skull fracture occurred, so I doubt he was jumping up with another balled fist.
If I were Stitt I’d suspend indefinitely pending further investigation, and I would have announced it 2 days ago

 

[PlayerRep]

Arresting officer is Teayan Dillon. Is that a girl's name?

"Teyana
Girl's name meaning, origin, and popularity" Different spelling.

 

[PlayerRep]

Why would you boot someone who hasn't even been charged with anything? Don't think the athletic code would even permit that.

The police report alone is dam damming.

Only the portion provided by 2 Friends of the WSU guy. Not Strong’s. Probably not what the other 2 witnesses will say. How can you be so stupid and naive? You need to wait for all of the witnesses and facts.

What if it turns out the guy doesn’t have a fractured skull? Or that a shot put hit him in the head at practice?

Read the report again counselor. Pay particular attention to what Strong told the officer.

I read the report. I summarized it in this or another thread. Feel free to point out what Strong said.

 

[Boscoe]

Justin wasn’t chasing him to fight him, he was just gonna give him a stern talking to. Lol

At the end of the day, the most important fact is not why Strong was chasing him. It was what occurred in the time/seconds before the punch. If the guy was just standing there with hands down saying please don't hit me, and not being threatening, then the facts are bad for Strong.

While this didn't happen, if Strong chased the guy, and the guy stopped and started to pull a gun, and Strong punched him, would any of you be doubting self-defense.

I'm not saying Strong is in a good position based on what we know so far, but it will be important to get all the facts, and hear what all of the witnesses say.

I agree. But I also think the other kid would have an argument for self-defense after being chased down.

 

[PlayerRep]

Question.....how it was an "unprovoked attack" if he was chasing the guy? Isn't that a part of a self defense claim? Had he not chased the guy it would not have occurred.

Under Ursus's assumptions, I believe Ursus has you there PR. If Strong could have remained at the house and not have had to defend himself there further against the kid, he likely would have been safe from attack. If (and this fact is yet to be conclusively established, it appears) he pursued and confronted the kid, he could be seen to have become the aggressor and self defense then becomes a much tougher sell. Time and further investigation will tell. For my bona fides, in the distant past, I worked as a criminal defense attorney for several years (yeah, scum of the earth - I've heard every lawyer joke known to man.)

Nope. You are completely wrong. There is no duty not to chase someone who had hit you. Jeez, how dumb can you be? If you were ever a defense attorney, I can see why they ran you out of the job. The crucial time and facts are what occurred right before Strong hit him. Was the guy threatening or was he not threatening?

If the guy had his hands or his fists up, why didn't he protect himself. It was one punch. How does a smaller guy, who is not a boxer, land a punch against a heavier guy with his hands/fists up, and knock him down with one punch? Doesn't make sense. I understand how a sucker punch can take someone down.

But it wasn’t “one punch.”
So your “moments before” analysis might work for the first punch but not the second one while on the ground. I thought one of the witnesses said he hit his head on the ground following the first punch and that’s when the skull fracture occurred, so I doubt he was jumping up with another balled fist.
If I were Stitt I’d suspend indefinitely pending further investigation, and I would have announced it 2 days ago

I already commented on the second punch. Pay attention.

So, do you think Strong got down on his knees and hit an unconscious guy lying on the roadway? Or, if Strong just so flexible that he can thrown a punch standing up against a guy with his head on the ground? Or how to you think the second punch was thrown? Just curious.

I want to see what the other 2 witnesses say. Not saying Strong isn't in the soup, but there is more information to come.

 

[Plainsman]

Question.....how it was an "unprovoked attack" if he was chasing the guy? Isn't that a part of a self defense claim? Had he not chased the guy it would not have occurred.

Under Ursus's assumptions, I believe Ursus has you there PR. If Strong could have remained at the house and not have had to defend himself there further against the kid, he likely would have been safe from attack. If (and this fact is yet to be conclusively established, it appears) he pursued and confronted the kid, he could be seen to have become the aggressor and self defense then becomes a much tougher sell. Time and further investigation will tell. For my bona fides, in the distant past, I worked as a criminal defense attorney for several years (yeah, scum of the earth - I've heard every lawyer joke known to man.)

Guess I am not as stupid as PR suggests and thst with my assumptions on place some one who knows about law sees my point.....but regardless I will bet PR's ego would never admit I was on to something.

It's because Plainsman is even more stupid than you. What he said made zero sense, and is just plain wrong.

Yes PR, it is clear that you think anyone who disagrees with you is stupid. But that doesn't make it true, does it? Your comment that there is no duty not to chase someone who has punched you is totally irrelevant. If Strong made the decision to chase him when he could have simply remained in the house and ended the whole incident, then Strong can, under the law, be seen to have become the aggressor and therefore to have forfeited his claim to a strong self defense, defense. (Whether the facts support this scenario have yet to be established, I will freely admit.)
And you assume I was chased out of the profession. You know what they say about assumptions, right? You don't bolster your arguments or your position by calling names and making assumptions not based in knowledge or fact.

 

[garizzalies]

What are the “more facts” people keep waiting for? I realize that’s a Rumsfeld question (you don’t know what you don’t know), but what do you expect?
What more do you need to know if you’re coach Stitt?

 

[Ursus1]

So PR. you are saying this not true????

Four elements are required for self-defense: (1) an unprovoked attack, (2) which threatens imminent injury or death, and (3) an objectively reasonable degree of force, used in response to (4) an objectively reasonable fear of injury or death.

 

[PlayerRep]

Justin wasn’t chasing him to fight him, he was just gonna give him a stern talking to. Lol

At the end of the day, the most important fact is not why Strong was chasing him. It was what occurred in the time/seconds before the punch. If the guy was just standing there with hands down saying please don't hit me, and not being threatening, then the facts are bad for Strong.

While this didn't happen, if Strong chased the guy, and the guy stopped and started to pull a gun, and Strong punched him, would any of you be doubting self-defense.

I'm not saying Strong is in a good position based on what we know so far, but it will be important to get all the facts, and hear what all of the witnesses say.

I agree. But I also think the other kid would have an argument for self-defense after being chased down.

True, but if they both felt threatened, put up their fists, and Strong punched quicker, then it's probably not assault. I still don't know why the WSU guy didn't deflect the punch if he already had his hands/or fist up. Or, would he have not moved his head a bit. In the old days, I was hit hard a few times with my hands down, including 2 sucker punches by a good fighter, and I didn't go down.

 

[Boscoe]

What are the “more facts” people keep waiting for? I realize that’s a Rumsfeld question (you don’t know what you don’t know), but what do you expect?
What more do you need to know if you’re coach Stitt?

A consistent witness statement would be nice. There are like four different witnesses all telling a different story.

 

[goatcreekgriz]

Justin wasn’t chasing him to fight him, he was just gonna give him a stern talking to. Lol

At the end of the day, the most important fact is not why Strong was chasing him. It was what occurred in the time/seconds before the punch. If the guy was just standing there with hands down saying please don't hit me, and not being threatening, then the facts are bad for Strong.

While this didn't happen, if Strong chased the guy, and the guy stopped and started to pull a gun, and Strong punched him, would any of you be doubting self-defense.

I'm not saying Strong is in a good position based on what we know so far, but it will be important to get all the facts, and hear what all of the witnesses say.

I agree. But I also think the other kid would have an argument for self-defense after being chased down.

That's what I thought your previous post suggested, and you make a good point. I hope Meyring recovers and can remember what happened from his perspective.

 

[PDXGrizzly]

Question.....how it was an "unprovoked attack" if he was chasing the guy? Isn't that a part of a self defense claim? Had he not chased the guy it would not have occurred.

Under Ursus's assumptions, I believe Ursus has you there PR. If Strong could have remained at the house and not have had to defend himself there further against the kid, he likely would have been safe from attack. If (and this fact is yet to be conclusively established, it appears) he pursued and confronted the kid, he could be seen to have become the aggressor and self defense then becomes a much tougher sell. Time and further investigation will tell. For my bona fides, in the distant past, I worked as a criminal defense attorney for several years (yeah, scum of the earth - I've heard every lawyer joke known to man.)

Nope. You are completely wrong. There is no duty not to chase someone who had hit you. Jeez, how dumb can you be? If you were ever a defense attorney, I can see why they ran you out of the job. The crucial time and facts are what occurred right before Strong hit him. Was the guy threatening or was he not threatening?

If the guy had his hands or his fists up, why didn't he protect himself. It was one punch. How does a smaller guy, who is not a boxer, land a punch against a heavier guy with his hands/fists up, and knock him down with one punch? Doesn't make sense. I understand how a sucker punch can take someone down.

But it wasn’t “one punch.”
So your “moments before” analysis might work for the first punch but not the second one while on the ground. I thought one of the witnesses said he hit his head on the ground following the first punch and that’s when the skull fracture occurred, so I doubt he was jumping up with another balled fist.
If I were Stitt I’d suspend indefinitely pending further investigation, and I would have announced it 2 days ago

Regardless of what you would do, the fact remains that Stitt is not in control of discipline. Any suspension or removal is handed down to him by Haslam and the Administration. I would bet he is in trouble and probably suspended internally pending official statements from Haslam et al.

 

[GraniteGriz80]

Bad situation. It’s going to be a case of he said she said I think. I hope he gets a fair trial. It would be hard not to hit someone back after you got hit by them. The cops have a lot of evidence to collect. Hopefully the 2 guys with him have matching stories that support Strong. I find it hard to believe that Strong punching him twice even if the one time he was on the ground would fracture his skull. Did something happen to him before Strong punched him? Can’t judge until all the evidence is collected.

 

[PlayerRep]

So PR. you are saying this not true????

Four elements are required for self-defense: (1) an unprovoked attack, (2) which threatens imminent injury or death, and (3) an objectively reasonable degree of force, used in response to (4) an objectively reasonable fear of injury or death.

I don't know what the elements of the law are in WA. Do you?

In this situation, under some of the fact scenarios I have mentioned, unprovoked would have little or nothing to do with the situation. Jeez, the WSU guy apparently hit Strong and others, and had him or another in a headlock or choke hold, that is surely provocation. If that isn't provocation, what is. I have seen nothing to indicate that Strong provoked what the WSU did.

 

[garizzalies]

Under Ursus's assumptions, I believe Ursus has you there PR. If Strong could have remained at the house and not have had to defend himself there further against the kid, he likely would have been safe from attack. If (and this fact is yet to be conclusively established, it appears) he pursued and confronted the kid, he could be seen to have become the aggressor and self defense then becomes a much tougher sell. Time and further investigation will tell. For my bona fides, in the distant past, I worked as a criminal defense attorney for several years (yeah, scum of the earth - I've heard every lawyer joke known to man.)

Nope. You are completely wrong. There is no duty not to chase someone who had hit you. Jeez, how dumb can you be? If you were ever a defense attorney, I can see why they ran you out of the job. The crucial time and facts are what occurred right before Strong hit him. Was the guy threatening or was he not threatening?

If the guy had his hands or his fists up, why didn't he protect himself. It was one punch. How does a smaller guy, who is not a boxer, land a punch against a heavier guy with his hands/fists up, and knock him down with one punch? Doesn't make sense. I understand how a sucker punch can take someone down.

But it wasn’t “one punch.”
So your “moments before” analysis might work for the first punch but not the second one while on the ground. I thought one of the witnesses said he hit his head on the ground following the first punch and that’s when the skull fracture occurred, so I doubt he was jumping up with another balled fist.
If I were Stitt I’d suspend indefinitely pending further investigation, and I would have announced it 2 days ago

I already commented on the second punch. Pay attention.

So, do you think Strong got down on his knees and hit an unconscious guy lying on the roadway? Or, if Strong just so flexible that he can thrown a punch standing up against a guy with his head on the ground? Or how to you think the second punch was thrown? Just curious.

I want to see what the other 2 witnesses say. Not saying Strong isn't in the soup, but there is more information to come.

Oh I see you want us to pay attention to your irrelevant analysis and ignore the “bad fact.” Got it

I think the second punch was thrown after chasing him down from a house party at 2am while the guy was already on the ground. Pay attention.

 

[PlayerRep]

"What is the legal definition of self defense?
n. the use of reasonable force to protect oneself or members of the family from bodily harm from the attack of an aggressor, if the defender has reason to believe he/she/they is/are in danger. Self-defense is a common defense by a person accused of assault, battery or homicide."

Was Strong afraid that this muscular weight thrower was going to hit him? If so, self-defense.

 

[PlayerRep]

Nope. You are completely wrong. There is no duty not to chase someone who had hit you. Jeez, how dumb can you be? If you were ever a defense attorney, I can see why they ran you out of the job. The crucial time and facts are what occurred right before Strong hit him. Was the guy threatening or was he not threatening?

If the guy had his hands or his fists up, why didn't he protect himself. It was one punch. How does a smaller guy, who is not a boxer, land a punch against a heavier guy with his hands/fists up, and knock him down with one punch? Doesn't make sense. I understand how a sucker punch can take someone down.

But it wasn’t “one punch.”
So your “moments before” analysis might work for the first punch but not the second one while on the ground. I thought one of the witnesses said he hit his head on the ground following the first punch and that’s when the skull fracture occurred, so I doubt he was jumping up with another balled fist.
If I were Stitt I’d suspend indefinitely pending further investigation, and I would have announced it 2 days ago

I already commented on the second punch. Pay attention.

So, do you think Strong got down on his knees and hit an unconscious guy lying on the roadway? Or, if Strong just so flexible that he can thrown a punch standing up against a guy with his head on the ground? Or how to you think the second punch was thrown? Just curious.

I want to see what the other 2 witnesses say. Not saying Strong isn't in the soup, but there is more information to come.

Oh I see you want us to pay attention to your irrelevant analysis and ignore the “bad fact.” Got it

I think the second punch was thrown after chasing him down from a house party at 2am while the guy was already on the ground. Pay attention.

I have paid attention. I have commented on the 2d punch being a bad fact at least twice. I never suggested ignoring it. You need to pay attention.

Maybe you should quit ignoring Strong's good facts. The guy apparently hit Strong and put in him a chokehold or head lock. The guy is a muscular guy. The guy turned on Strong and clenched his fists, and maybe raised them. Why are you ignoring these "facts"?

Two of Strong's friends apparently haven't weighed in yet? Do you think they won't support Strong's version?