Ya I lived off campus with guns in my house too. You completely missed the point of my post. They shouldn't be allowed on CAMPUS, that means dorms and all other buildings. Agree to disagree I guess, but like PR mentioned above, the regents will win their lawsuit on this bill, as well as their lawsuit on 112 and whatever the number was on that freedom of speech bill too.SoldierGriz said:
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...regents...
- Thread starter zengriz
- Start date
tourist said:
You do realize Constitutional rights are limited regularly, right?
Jesse said:
"A new law signed by Montana's Republican governor will soon give college students in the state the right to carry a concealed weapon on campus without a permit."
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/02/972742656/montanas-governor-says-conceal-carry-law-bolsters-self-defense-rights
garizzalies
Well-known member
What the what? Do you believe a person’s demographics should play a roll in whether the bill of rights applies to them? Which is the worst demo to allow to have free speech?Jesse said:
EverettGriz said:
Yup. I have a few seats open in my high school government course so that some could brush up on their knowledge of civics and constitutional law.
In my twenty years of teaching in public schools, largely as a government teacher, I have watched the 2A debate descend from common sense into the lunatic fringe. What is the most mind boggling part of it all is that not one person questioned the prohibition of guns on college or k-12 campuses for close to 30 years. Was a completely acceptable ask that you don't bring your hunting rifle or hand gun to school. Nary a complaint in my 15 years in Montana or Idaho when kids were asked by law enforcement to take their guns home or park off campus. No lawsuit or attempting to unseat the school board over the issue.
There isn't an educational organization, policy developers, and so forth that has ever asked for schools to be armed. That wasn't the demand after Columbine. We targeted the things that really did matter. We increased school security, provided LEO's to school campuses and we trained our teaching staff to identify at risk kids. Not once did we ask to increase the complexity of the situation by adding weapons to the mix.
That isn't a policy objective rooted in science, it is a policy rooted in the absurd fringes of the far right anti- government movement. I first heard it listening to the speeches given by Cal Greenup, the Freemen and John Trochmann. Started as a conspiracy theory, the idea of absolute authority to have guns, and slowly oozed out of the hinterlands and into mainstream conservative thought through agencies like the NRA. They disowned and distanced themselves from groups like the Montana Militia and so forth in the 1990's, but they are practically in bed with them now. Says a lot that this wasn't an issue even twenty years ago, and it is now. That for 150 years of American history, we had a pretty reasonable and common sense stance on gun policy. We don't now and you can look to the evolution of the 2A defense over the past decade to see why.
We've only loosened 2A rights in the past twenty years not strengthened them federally. Yet the messaging is pretty consistent is that your guns are at risk if a liberal is in office. Bush Administration let the Brady Bill lapse and since then it has been a gradual loosening of gun laws either through courts or legislation at the state or national level. To think that we actually believe it is a denied right and over-extension of government power asking you not to carry a weapon while on school grounds is just a perversion of the concept of civil liberties and rights. A concept that literally NO ONE in the 2A group pushed more than a decade ago.
People weren't less free in 1990 or even 2000, we just had a shit ton more common sense as to understand that it was reasonable enough to leave your guns at home while attending a football game or a Harry Fritz lecture on barley production in Montana. This is all about the radicalization of gun rights from the center to the right, beyond the norm, and less about what truly is an extension of civil liberties.
What do I know. I'm just an educator who chose the profession because I wasn't good enough to do anything else.
Jesse said:
As a recent grad of UM (2019) I was living in the dorms not that many years ago. I was paired with a random roommate, who had a gun in the room, as did myself, as did 50% of the students who lived on the floor. Guns being in the dorms are not a new thing. The same people who had them then are the same people who have them now, and will continue to bring them into the rooms. A new rule is not going to change any of that. PS....You're not allowed to have alcohol in the dorms until you're 21 either.....
I'm also a recent grad. You're right, that does happen. Here's what doesn't happen though that will start to happen. Kids who are in possession of those guns will start thinking they have free will with them and will begin taking them outside of their dorms more often cause they'll feel the need to show them off. This could lead to one of my earlier points about 2 drunk kids getting in an argument who now know that they no longer have to hide them in their rooms or on campus anymore. BTW, you're totally overexaggerating that 50% of students on the floor number too. The overwhelming majority of kids I knew from my time in the dorms never owned guns, and the ones that did left them in the glove box or trunk of their cars, which was a very small percentage of kids anyway. Nice try though.Dgriz94 said:
Dgriz94 said:
If booze was allowed for everyone in the dorms, would kids openly rip beers and shots and have sweet bar setups and get radical vodka luges for special occasions and shit? Or would they still stash Malibu rum in empty ketchup squeeze bottles? (I don't really care about this issue. I just wanted and excuse to tell people how I stashed my Malibu rum in the dorms).
HelenaHandBasket
Well-known member
CDAGRIZ said:
There has to be a body cavity story here someplace...has to be.
I believe that immature, still mentally developing dumb asses, who have little to none experience with alcohol should not possess firearms on college campuses or anywhere else. Free speech normally doesn’t get anyone killed, the Supreme Court has limited high schoolers right to free speech and it has also limited the 2A. Nothing is absolute because the constitution isn’t a suicide pact. You have to be 18 to vote, 21 to drink and smoke, 35 to run for president and if you are on a college campus you shouldn't be able to carry. Just my opinion, why are we making it harder to vote then it is to possess a firearm on a college campus?garizzalies said:
retiredpopo
Well-known member
if guns are allowed on campus (they actually already are) there will be a lot more police reports....of lost and stolen guns. drunks can never remember where they leave stuff including their cars, how can you expect them to remember where they put their guns? Professors are the worst at misplacing things....."911. yes what are you reporting? uh I can't find my gun, I don't know if it was stolen or I just forgot it somewhere or if one of my friends is playing a joke on me"
Grizfan-24 said:
great post.
When I was at UM -- sometime between horse and buggies circling the Oval and teens constantly uploading videos of them cutting their toenails onto TikTok -- guns were allowed for those living in the dorms. But they had to be locked in a gun safe in the basement. This was used predominantly for hunting rifles, but I do know people who had handguns as well.
This mandated that if you wanted your firearm, you had to ask an RA to unlock the safe for you, vastly lowing the chance that the weapon could be used in a harmful manner.
Seemed a more than reasonable approach to all of us. Still does to anyone but a nutjob, I'd argue.
This mandated that if you wanted your firearm, you had to ask an RA to unlock the safe for you, vastly lowing the chance that the weapon could be used in a harmful manner.
Seemed a more than reasonable approach to all of us. Still does to anyone but a nutjob, I'd argue.
EverettGriz said:
Agreed. I would only add the well established science of the underdeveloped prefrontal cortex of young people.
The formula is simple:
Young men’s amygdala + alcohol + young females + firearms = trouble
My view is that the Second Amendment has gotten so political, in part because there really are a lot of liberals, Dems and politicians who do in fact want to take away most guns. This group tends not to have or use guns, and doesn't understand guns for care to understand them. My view is that the NRA, etc. has taken and hardened their stances, due to the "give an inch, they'll want a mile" thin.
No democrat (or politician) in Montana would ever take away guns. There may be a select few that would want to ban fully automatic assault rifles, but dems in MT mainly want to regulate them with background checks and common sense protocols. What Everett said about the gun safe in the basement of residence halls is actually an idea I could get behind.PlayerRep said:
