Recruiting QBs

[HelenaHandBasket]

So now you don't think Britt can be a D1 QB?

What? How the eff did you arrive at that conclusion? Are you a failed philosophy major or something?
I am just trying to say that sometime you need to put a player in the game to see how he responds. My point being that it is not always the first on the depth chart. Again I witnessed this first hand. Not saying Britt is Dickenson but when Dickenson got his first playing time he came into the game as a backup to the upper class starter that was clearly overwhelmed in a PAC 10 environment. The griz were down 21 points and almost won the game Dickenson was throwing into the endzone to win the game against the Oregon ducks. Nobody expected him to be that good. Sometimes you have to give another player a chance if things are not working. Sorry if that is difficult for you to understand. It's just my opinion.

No, what you want to do is complain that he didn't get into the game at Weber and then try to use DD as your basis of argument with no other knowledge of the decision. Not difficult to understand, just not a very good argument.

 

[indian-outlaw]

What? How the eff did you arrive at that conclusion? Are you a failed philosophy major or something?
I am just trying to say that sometime you need to put a player in the game to see how he responds. My point being that it is not always the first on the depth chart. Again I witnessed this first hand. Not saying Britt is Dickenson but when Dickenson got his first playing time he came into the game as a backup to the upper class starter that was clearly overwhelmed in a PAC 10 environment. The griz were down 21 points and almost won the game Dickenson was throwing into the endzone to win the game against the Oregon ducks. Nobody expected him to be that good. Sometimes you have to give another player a chance if things are not working. Sorry if that is difficult for you to understand. It's just my opinion.

So, you put in an untested frosh in the middle of a critical game against a top 5 team, when the Griz are in a tight game? You really think that's the time to experiment?

In this case, yep.

 

[MikeyGriz]

What? How the eff did you arrive at that conclusion? Are you a failed philosophy major or something?
I am just trying to say that sometime you need to put a player in the game to see how he responds. My point being that it is not always the first on the depth chart. Again I witnessed this first hand. Not saying Britt is Dickenson but when Dickenson got his first playing time he came into the game as a backup to the upper class starter that was clearly overwhelmed in a PAC 10 environment. The griz were down 21 points and almost won the game Dickenson was throwing into the endzone to win the game against the Oregon ducks. Nobody expected him to be that good. Sometimes you have to give another player a chance if things are not working. Sorry if that is difficult for you to understand. It's just my opinion.

So, you put in an untested frosh in the middle of a critical game against a top 5 team, when the Griz are in a tight game? You really think that's the time to experiment?

With all of your vast knowledge of the game, you do know you can put the original guy back in if the substitution doesn't work out, right?

 

[AZDoc]

First, they recruit the best high school athletes that happen to be a QB in high school. That doesn't mean they translate to QB at the college level.

Second, maybe the process of recruiting non prototypical high school QB's isn't fair, but UM is far from the only school that sees it that way. I will also add that they did recruit Britt, so they must have seen something in the kid. I would assume that the reason they didn't play him had little to do with being 5-11 and more to do with something else.

We're back to my original point. I don't think these guys can recognize whether s 17 yo QB athlete will develop into a div I QB. And IMHO it usually boils down to the measurables that really mean nothing

I totally see your point with measurables, but then why even recruit the kid? Just to hope he grows? Or to use him at a different position instead of recruiting that position?

 

[Bok_Choi]

We're back to my original point. I don't think these guys can recognize whether s 17 yo QB athlete will develop into a div I QB. And IMHO it usually boils down to the measurables that really mean nothing

I totally see your point with measurables, but then why even recruit the kid? Just to hope he grows? Or to use him at a different position instead of recruiting that position?

Hauck has made it clear that they are closely evaluating the folks coming in via the camp process. That's who they want in the locker room and it's hard to argue that having them on-campus provides an opportunity to see them up close and personal. In addition, there are a number of guys on the roster that are HS QB's, but playing somewhere else, because they tend to be pretty good atheletes and play multiple sports. The inability to make an evaluation shouldn't be a a shock here. Most quarterbacks are rolls of the dice, unless you're playing for Eck, Baldwin, Taylor, Vigen, Best, Barney or Hawkins. Then you seem to be all-world and play a redshirt frosh or sophs.

 

[SoldierGriz]

I totally see your point with measurables, but then why even recruit the kid? Just to hope he grows? Or to use him at a different position instead of recruiting that position?

Hauck has made it clear that they are closely evaluating the folks coming in via the camp process. That's who they want in the locker room and it's hard to argue that having them on-campus provides an opportunity to see them up close and personal. In addition, there are a number of guys on the roster that are HS QB's, but playing somewhere else, because they tend to be pretty good atheletes and play multiple sports. The inability to make an evaluation shouldn't be a a shock here. Most quarterbacks are rolls of the dice, unless you're playing for Eck, Baldwin, Taylor, Vigen, Best, Barney or Hawkins. Then you seem to be all-world and play a redshirt frosh or sophs.

Exactly.

 

[AZDoc]

I totally see your point with measurables, but then why even recruit the kid? Just to hope he grows? Or to use him at a different position instead of recruiting that position?

Hauck has made it clear that they are closely evaluating the folks coming in via the camp process. That's who they want in the locker room and it's hard to argue that having them on-campus provides an opportunity to see them up close and personal. In addition, there are a number of guys on the roster that are HS QB's, but playing somewhere else, because they tend to be pretty good atheletes and play multiple sports. The inability to make an evaluation shouldn't be a a shock here. Most quarterbacks are rolls of the dice, unless you're playing for Eck, Baldwin, Taylor, Vigen, Best, Barney or Hawkins. Then you seem to be all-world and play a redshirt frosh or sophs.

That is absolutely correct, and I agree with what you're saying here. So the issue REALLY is that they don't cast any type of net for players...especially QBs...and are limited to those that come to camp. AND THEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM...I know it as been said on here a lot about this. I love the fact that they want kids they've seen, kids they know, kids that WANT to come to missoula, but sometimes, you just need to change things up a bit.

 

[indian-outlaw]

We're back to my original point. I don't think these guys can recognize whether s 17 yo QB athlete will develop into a div I QB. And IMHO it usually boils down to the measurables that really mean nothing

I totally see your point with measurables, but then why even recruit the kid? Just to hope he grows? Or to use him at a different position instead of recruiting that position?

I guess the point is to give the kid a chance to develop and play if he wants to try. I don't think the bobcats envisioned Tommy Mellot as their QB. I'm sure they thought he'd be a db or something. They gave him a chance in the wildcat formation and found out he could play. I really doubt our current staff would have even given him a chance.

 

[AZDoc]

And I get that many are converted to different positions...i get it. But holy crap, a kid that kills it at highest level CA is generally better (at QB) than Graves that kills it in Class B Montana. But Graves (for example) certainly could be a much better overall athlete and be productive at safety. But the development of a player like Graves at QB is what is lacking then is what we are saying? Which I totally agree with. But does it boil down to the recruiting process and the net cast for QBs in general? Imagine an athlete like Graves developed into a QB at this point in his career...THAT is what we are looking for in this offense. Why then, is it not happening and all the "athletic QBs" are changing positions? I'm sure some of the scouting reports given would give some insight into that also...

Sorry, just got ranting off my chest. Recruiting is a passion of mine, and I do a lot of research, so it bothers me when there are SO MANY swings and misses at QB and HRs literally everywhere else in the BSC.

 

[AZDoc]

I totally see your point with measurables, but then why even recruit the kid? Just to hope he grows? Or to use him at a different position instead of recruiting that position?

I guess the point is to give the kid a chance to develop and play if he wants to try. I don't think the bobcats envisioned Tommy Mellot as their QB. I'm sure they thought he'd be a db or something. They gave him a chance in the wildcat formation and found out he could play. I really doubt our current staff would have even given him a chance.

yeah, i see that. Makes sense and I agree with you.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

I totally see your point with measurables, but then why even recruit the kid? Just to hope he grows? Or to use him at a different position instead of recruiting that position?

I guess the point is to give the kid a chance to develop and play if he wants to try. I don't think the bobcats envisioned Tommy Mellot as their QB. I'm sure they thought he'd be a db or something. They gave him a chance in the wildcat formation and found out he could play. I really doubt our current staff would have even given him a chance.

Just because they didn't use him at Weber doesn't mean he won't ever get a chance. I guess that Bobby should give every kid a chance to play QB.

 

[mthoopsfan]

So, you put in an untested frosh in the middle of a critical game against a top 5 team, when the Griz are in a tight game? You really think that's the time to experiment?

With all of your vast knowledge of the game, you do know you can put the original guy back in if the substitution doesn't work out, right?

I just repeated what Hauck said in an interview after the game and later at QB Club. I will take the word of the coach over a dumb idea by some uninformed yahoo on egriz anytime. The uniformed and unknowledgeable really come out on egriz after a loss or two.

 

[AZDoc]

With all of your vast knowledge of the game, you do know you can put the original guy back in if the substitution doesn't work out, right?

I just repeated what Hauck said in an interview after the game and later at QB Club. I will take the word of the coach over a dumb idea by some uninformed yahoo on egriz anytime. The uniformed and unknowledgeable really come out on egriz after a loss or two.

Is that basically what he said? Untested? I see that too, but then when earlier in the season, or in practice when LJ isn't going to play, do you get him reps to get him more tested? Did he say anything about style of play changes with the QBs? I think if you look back over time, there is always a story about a young kid that comes in to "save the day". Tom Brady, Dave Dickenson...why NOT try? If the offense was doing well but not finishing, I would agree 100% with not putting him in, truly. But when you have less than 120 yards of total offense in the game, I would think that is the PERFECT time to give it a whirl. Now, granted, it was still a close game, so both sides have arguments here.

 

[RoseyMustGo]

Wow. This thread has turned into a pissing contest, which I never intended it to do.

I have still not received an answer as to which coach (or coaches) is responsible for identifying, and then recruiting a high school QB. Maybe none of you know. Mthoopsfan alleges that he has deep connections in the the football program, so I would expect that he would know the answer. But maybe he is reluctant to expose that info because it might offend one of his solids.

Going back to my initial post, does anyone have a problem with the fact that we did not even recruit, or maybe even know about, Vernon Adams, Eric Barierre, or G. McCoy? There are not that may FCS quality QBs playing in CA, and several other Big Sky teams discovered and recruited them. So why didn't we?

 

[AZGrizFan]

I just repeated what Hauck said in an interview after the game and later at QB Club. I will take the word of the coach over a dumb idea by some uninformed yahoo on egriz anytime. The uniformed and unknowledgeable really come out on egriz after a loss or two.

Is that basically what he said? Untested? I see that too, but then when earlier in the season, or in practice when LJ isn't going to play, do you get him reps to get him more tested? Did he say anything about style of play changes with the QBs? I think if you look back over time, there is always a story about a young kid that comes in to "save the day". Tom Brady, Dave Dickenson...why NOT try? If the offense was doing well but not finishing, I would agree 100% with not putting him in, truly. But when you have less than 120 yards of total offense in the game, I would think that is the PERFECT time to give it a whirl. Now, granted, it was still a close game, so both sides have arguments here.

I would argue that the “it’s a close game and didn’t want to experiment” argument is 100% incorrect. There were six combined quarters of evidence that the team was not moving/responding. The exact fact that the game WAS close is a perfect reason to try something different in the hopes of a different outcome. I mean, we all knew once it was 24-10 that the game was over. There was no WAY a Brown-led offense was scoring 14 points, let alone enough to win. He led the team to 24 points in seven quarters (plus an OT “drive”). He wasn’t going to miraculously snap out of it and become Dave Dickenson in the last 15 minutes. Not sure how much more evident it can be that the current approach wasn’t working. Seems to be to be the perfect time, maybe pull out a miraculous win.

 

[uofmman1122]

Wow. This thread has turned into a pissing contest, which I never intended it to do.

I have still not received an answer as to which coach (or coaches) is responsible for identifying, and then recruiting a high school QB. Maybe none of you know. Mthoopsfan alleges that he has deep connections in the the football program, so I would expect that he would know the answer. But maybe he is reluctant to expose that info because it might offend one of his solids.

Going back to my initial post, does anyone have a problem with the fact that we did not even recruit, or maybe even know about, Vernon Adams, Eric Barierre, or G. McCoy? There are not that may FCS quality QBs playing in CA, and several other Big Sky teams discovered and recruited them. So why didn't we?

I get what you're trying to say here, but if you're trying to use QBs that were recruited when this staff wasn't even here to dunk on them, I'm really missing your point.

Adams was a recruit during our hellish 2012 offseason, and Barierre was in the same class as Gresch Jensen, Stitt's handpicked QB. Why would you hold either of those against Bobby Hauck and his staff?

There were probably over 100 QBs recruited into the Big Sky over the last 10 years. Why are you singling out 2 All Americans and a guy who's decent out of all of those and then complaining that we aren't finding QB gems? Almost every school struggles to find QBs that good.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Wow. This thread has turned into a pissing contest, which I never intended it to do.

I have still not received an answer as to which coach (or coaches) is responsible for identifying, and then recruiting a high school QB. Maybe none of you know. Mthoopsfan alleges that he has deep connections in the the football program, so I would expect that he would know the answer. But maybe he is reluctant to expose that info because it might offend one of his solids.

Going back to my initial post, does anyone have a problem with the fact that we did not even recruit, or maybe even know about, Vernon Adams, Eric Barierre, or G. McCoy? There are not that may FCS quality QBs playing in CA, and several other Big Sky teams discovered and recruited them. So why didn't we?

I can only add some info on VA. Coaches knew of him but academics were an issue. EWU was one of the few schools he could get into.

 

[RoseyMustGo]

Wow. This thread has turned into a pissing contest, which I never intended it to do.

I have still not received an answer as to which coach (or coaches) is responsible for identifying, and then recruiting a high school QB. Maybe none of you know. Mthoopsfan alleges that he has deep connections in the the football program, so I would expect that he would know the answer. But maybe he is reluctant to expose that info because it might offend one of his solids.

Going back to my initial post, does anyone have a problem with the fact that we did not even recruit, or maybe even know about, Vernon Adams, Eric Barierre, or G. McCoy? There are not that may FCS quality QBs playing in CA, and several other Big Sky teams discovered and recruited them. So why didn't we?

I get what you're trying to say here, but if you're trying to use QBs that were recruited when this staff wasn't even here to dunk on them, I'm really missing your point.

Adams was a recruit during our hellish 2012 offseason, and Barierre was in the same class as Gresch Jensen, Stitt's handpicked QB. Why would you hold either of those against Bobby Hauck and his staff?

There were probably over 100 QBs recruited into the Big Sky over the last 10 years. Why are you singling out 2 All Americans and a guy who's decent out of all of those and then complaining that we aren't finding QB gems? Almost every school struggles to find QBs that good.

I am not slamming our current coaches about QB recruiting. Delaney didn't recruit strong QBs either, and Jensen was the only Stitt recruit. So our failure in that area goes back to multiple staffs. And Jensen was not even good enough to start at Texas State. Looks like grades were an issue with VA, but I know for a fact that Barierre was offered by 5 Big Sky schools, and McCoy by 3. In the meantime, our QB recruits were Brown and Huot, who had no other FCS offers to my knowledge, including by MSU. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[uofmman1122]

I get what you're trying to say here, but if you're trying to use QBs that were recruited when this staff wasn't even here to dunk on them, I'm really missing your point.

Adams was a recruit during our hellish 2012 offseason, and Barierre was in the same class as Gresch Jensen, Stitt's handpicked QB. Why would you hold either of those against Bobby Hauck and his staff?

There were probably over 100 QBs recruited into the Big Sky over the last 10 years. Why are you singling out 2 All Americans and a guy who's decent out of all of those and then complaining that we aren't finding QB gems? Almost every school struggles to find QBs that good.

I am not slamming our current coaches about QB recruiting. Delaney didn't recruit strong QBs either, and Jensen was the only Stitt recruit. So our failure in that area goes back to multiple staffs. And Jensen was not even good enough to start at Texas State. Looks like grades were an issue with VA, but I know for a fact that Barierre was offered by 5 Big Sky schools, and McCoy by 3. In the meantime, our QB recruits were Brown and Huot, who had no other FCS offers to my knowledge, including by MSU. Correct me if I am wrong.

"In the meantime"?

In the meantime between Barierre and now, we've recruited at least 10 or so QBs, so why focus on Brown and Huot? What about Britt? What happened with Delaney and Stitt is irrelevant, just like VA and Barierre's recruitment is irrelevant. Hauck and staff have brought in essentially 2 HS QBs that they've been trying to develop. One of those hasn't worked out, but I don't see the point in judging current and past successes with the huge advantage of hindsight. If you go back and read what people said about McCoy before we played them, people assumed he would be mediocre at best because he was awful last year. Why couldn't everyone see McCoy's brilliance last season when he was flailing around against us in Moscow? If Britt is the guy next season and the year after, and he also can't get the job done, or if we have to bring in yet another FBS Senior transfer, I think it'll be fair to question what it is we're doing.

I am fully onboard letting Britt get all the #2 reps going forward, because we know what we have in Brown, and it's not good enough, but this whole criticism based on QBs who haven't played in years just seems weird.

 

[AZDoc]

I am not slamming our current coaches about QB recruiting. Delaney didn't recruit strong QBs either, and Jensen was the only Stitt recruit. So our failure in that area goes back to multiple staffs. And Jensen was not even good enough to start at Texas State. Looks like grades were an issue with VA, but I know for a fact that Barierre was offered by 5 Big Sky schools, and McCoy by 3. In the meantime, our QB recruits were Brown and Huot, who had no other FCS offers to my knowledge, including by MSU. Correct me if I am wrong.

"In the meantime"?

In the meantime between Barierre and now, we've recruited at least 10 or so QBs, so why focus on Brown and Huot? What about Britt? What happened with Delaney and Stitt is irrelevant, just like VA and Barierre's recruitment is irrelevant. Hauck and staff have brought in essentially 2 HS QBs that they've been trying to develop. One of those hasn't worked out, but I don't see the point in judging current and past successes with the huge advantage of hindsight. If you go back and read what people said about McCoy before we played them, people assumed he would be mediocre at best because he was awful last year. Why couldn't everyone see McCoy's brilliance last season when he was flailing around against us in Moscow? If Britt is the guy next season and the year after, and he also can't get the job done, or if we have to bring in yet another FBS Senior transfer, I think it'll be fair to question what it is we're doing.

I am fully onboard letting Britt get all the #2 reps going forward, because we know what we have in Brown, and it's not good enough, but this whole criticism based on QBs who haven't played in years just seems weird.

I think the point is just that there are QBs that have been available to have in the BSC over the years and we haven’t been on board. Today it just happens to be brown is what the Griz have and there are others, including freshmen, that are stronger players. I wouldn’t call it weird because of that. Mostly just a trip down memory lane of good BSC quarterbacks that we haven’t been a part of recruiting for one reason or another.