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Post Game: Hot and then ice cold

Sean Murray had a good game tackling. If not for him Bauman would've had around 400 yards rushing. Tully is not a BSC safety. Isn't good in coverage and isn't a solid tackler. A few of NAUs deep passes should've been picked off. Our dline looked pretty good. LBs got caught over pursuing too often. I'm guessing they were just gassed with being on the field the whole game. If we don't turn the ball over we are 4-0. Instead we are 2-2. If we turn the ball over next week we have no chance.
 
Notice Bauman's number: 34

Remind you of anybody? Reminds me of November 1, 2008. The shoe was on our guy's foot, when he had a 67 yard run and 3 TD's.

Too bad that Bauman is not graduating this coming spring.
 
Potomac Griz said:
Actually Johnson was a sophomore last year. But yes, Johnson started out really rough too through 4 games. We were 2-2 then as well after a blowout loss to Sac State where Johnson threw 3 ints and went 9-19. Oh how quickly people forget how bad our O looked last year at this point of the season... there was serious doubt about JJ's accuracy and arm strength then too.

Things got turned around then, and they can get turned around now.


Potomac, thanks you're right. Johnson was a sophomore not a freshman, though by all means still very much a "Rookie". Overall, we are on the same page as to what we're viewing here.

TM's play is very reminiscent of JJ at this point in the season. Each had shown flashes of brilliance mixed in with some very silly "rookie" mistakes resulting in easy interceptions. For Johnson it wasn't just the Sac State game, though that was the low point of it. For McKinney I'm hoping this NAU game will prove to be his low point as well.

It is understandable McKinney, Johnson, or any QB, wants each play to be a TD. It is just a sometimes painful process watching these inexperienced QB's learn that an incompletion, or even a sack, is always better than an interception. Unfortunately, learning this lesson is easier said than done.
:ugeek:
 
Grizzlies1982 said:
Potomac Griz said:
Actually Johnson was a sophomore last year. But yes, Johnson started out really rough too through 4 games. We were 2-2 then as well after a blowout loss to Sac State where Johnson threw 3 ints and went 9-19. Oh how quickly people forget how bad our O looked last year at this point of the season... there was serious doubt about JJ's accuracy and arm strength then too.

Things got turned around then, and they can get turned around now.


Potomac, thanks you're right. Johnson was a sophomore not a freshman, though by all means still very much a "Rookie". Overall, we are on the same page as to what we're viewing here.

TM's play is very reminiscent of JJ at this point in the season. Each had shown flashes of brilliance mixed in with some very silly "rookie" mistakes resulting in easy interceptions. For Johnson it wasn't just the Sac State game, though that was the low point of it. For McKinney I'm hoping this NAU game will prove to be his low point as well.

It is understandable McKinney, Johnson, or any QB, wants each play to be a TD. It is just a sometimes painful process watching these inexperienced QB's learn that an incompletion, or even a sack, is always better than an interception. Unfortunately, learning this lesson is easier said than done.
:ugeek:

Exactly, their play up to this point in the season has been Very similar. And you are right, while Johnson was a sophomore last year he was basically a rookie since he played so little his freshman year. These rookie mistakes will become less and less prevalent as the season goes on I'm sure. I hope our big breakout game comes earlier than game 9 though this year (game 9 was the Weber game last year).

I'm sure if we looked back at posts made after the Sac State debacle last year, there would be a ton of similarities in how fans felt about the rest of the season and our QB play....probably including some posts by me ranting about JJ not being ready :P
 
BWahlberg said:
What a deflating and demoralizing loss. It's hard to take away anything good from this game.

Lets start with what's due. Congrats to NAU, Zach Bauman, Cary Gossart, and Jerome Souers. They didn't go into panic mode and were the better team today on the field. That NAU O-line opened big holes and took good advantage of our D-ends in blocking. Bauman is a beast, before the game and in my scouting report I said you DON'T want him out in space - well... he got out in space A LOT. Burned us badly. Gossart was steady, his deep passes were light and if they were more on-target he might've thrown for a few deep TDs as well. The NAU defense really didn't impress me much in the first half but they adjusted well and showed what really makes McKinney fall apart - edge blitzing. Souers adjusted well at the half, Delaney did not. In all aspects of the game NAU outplayed and out-coached the Griz. They deserved this win and got it. You can't even look back and say the Griz "gave" them this win (the excuses for many 2010 losses) because they just came out there today and smashed the Griz.

Being the areas of concern, lets start there:

1. I'm seeing parallels to 2010, players are trying to do more than their 1/11th. We had DEs and LBs over-pursuing and getting caught out of position. We had turnovers forced in similar fashion to 2010's. This is a leadership and discipline issue and it's bad when you see the team leaders making these errors. I expect out-of-position or over-pursuit errors from young guys but not our dudes that have been out there for in excess of a full season or two. The coaching staff in 2010 had issues controlling this and it appears that they're having it again.

2. I'm serious, and I don't care if it's EWU next, lets start Lebsock and Rominger. I'm sick and tired of watching Tully get burned and watching both him and Hermanson get caught on their heels and have their arm tackles do nothing. I mean... hell... if we're going to get beat in the passing game anyways lets see if Rominger and Lebsock can at least friggin tackle. Gossart's lame duck passes in the middle of the field would've been picked by just about any other starting safety we've had in the last 15 years. Bo Tully has played 2 seasons now and Hermanson has a full year under his belt, this is not the type of play I expected for/hoped for out of those two.

3. How bad did our play calling on offense get in the 2nd half? Wow, NAU knew what was coming and just rattled our whole system. This is the first game I've seen where watching the game-plan unfold I've really been at a loss for what was sent out there. The first half was so agressive, and then the tone just changed on the drive in the 2nd qtr with Moore's fumble and downhill it went from there. We lost the edge and took our foot off the gas, went into "protect the lead" mode and 34 unanswered points later we were sunk.

4. Jordan Canada looks like he hasn't played football in years. Running right into the backs of his linemen, no cuts, no burst. I know he's been out of sync but he was tearing it up in fall ball. Where is this explosive player we saw last year?

5. Pure speculation here but I can't help but wonder if RS Frosh TMac let his 1st half success get to his head and affect his game. He was on FIRE the first 4 drives, making good reads, going through his progression, just rocking it. But once trouble hit all that swag was gone and suddenly we saw a happy-foot QB with lame-duck throws that could not get his game back. Trent needs to learn from this and make sure to stay consistent throughout the game and not get cocky when you're on a good roll.

6. 3 man front with no edge blitz against a heavy-set run? Yeah..... :(

7. What's happened with Sean Haynes? Great hands, burner in fall camp, starts game 1, now doesn't play until the very last series of the game.

8. Insult to injury the coaching staff fell apart too. Down 10 with the ball on our own 1 and coming out of a TV timeout everyone in the stands realizes that there's only 10 Griz players on the field. People are shouting it, finally as the team lines up Gratton runs out to the slot with his arms up not knowing the play call. Then after we punt we've got 3 timeouts but don't use them when stuffing NAU. Finally on the kneel-down we call a timeout. A guy in front of me shouts, "Mick you gave up ten minutes ago, don't pull this play till the last snap BS now!"

9. 4th game in a row that our staff has not made the right halftime adjustments. This was a staple of Hauck's and Pflugrads. Work out the kinks in the first half, adjust and win in the 2nd. These Griz have been outscored by a compiled 69-42 in the 2nd half of the game this season. That's just gross.

-----------------------

It's tough to come away from this and think about the positives, but with some thought here's what I have.

1. Gotta give props on the aggressive nature of the first 4 possessions on offense. It looked like we were going to blow the hinges off the door. Good calls all around, the punt block was well scouted and executed, the offense had the NAU D on their heels, McKinney was looking at his progressions, and the O-line was protecting and opening up holes really well. We need that team this season if the Griz want a winning record, and we need that team for the FULL GAME.

2. How about Anthony "Chief" Goodwin starting over Nate Harris today? Pretty good for the most part, a few nice break-ups. Tackling against Bauman and breaking blocks needs work but he had some pretty good moments.

3. Need to find Ellis Henderson deep more often, dude has wheels and good hands.

4. Nice game by our two freshman d-line kids, both Holmes and Kidder had a few good plays and pressures. It's great to see Kidder "getting it" and stepping up. He's a great change of pace guy in the middle right now.

5. Not too bad of KRs for Naccarato, ball was in the right hand and he followed his blocking lanes well.

6. Special teams was solid again, some punts were kinda crappy, but of the big 3 teams I'd say ST is playing at the most consistent level right now.

------------------------

This loss is tough pill to swallow because right now there's not much that will convince me otherwise that the Griz will return from EWU 2-3 and not ranked in the top 25 for the first time... in probably what... 30 years? Ugh.

This team needs to re-examine itself and it's got pretty much no time to do it. Last year's team was also 2-2 if I recall correctly with a ton of question marks. This one has even more, they could turn it around and a road win vs EWU would help. Also the 2008 team got their mojo going with a win at EWU... so maybe... yeah.

Remember it's how you respond to these games that defines you. This team now sits on a razor-thin margin of error and can either set the tone for the rest of the season... or just fall further apart. I still have some major faith in this team but they've got so many question marks. A win on the road will start to answer that. It's time to step up.

Go Griz!

Wow! No mention of Dan Moore? Really?

I 'missed" the Sac State game last year, and others with better memories will undoubtedly think of other halves, but this was one of the worst halves of Griz football I can remember for a while.

A few thoughts....

Attention eGrizzers, Turns out Dan Moore is human. IMHO - you can't crucify other players and give Dan a free pass. I wonder if Chris Lider smashed his helmet when Dan put the ball on the ground?

What the hell was Trent McKinney thinking? You can't just throw the ball up for grabs when flushed.

Where I was watching, people were calling for a backup quarterback late in the 3rd. instead we kept TM in there, where he was getting absolutely shelled. Bring SSH in 10 minutes sooner, and maybe you have a shot at another squeaker. I was glad to see SSH get a TD.

Arm tackling (all over the D, not just in the secondary) reminds me of the Griz before Coach Read got the program turned-around. You can't arm tackle, and you especially can't arm tackle Zach Bauman (or tackle him at all for that matter)

My coaching high point was when they sent Nguyen to the edge on 4th and short instead of the more obvious Moore up the middle
 
mikegriz said:
Wow! No mention of Dan Moore? Really?

I 'missed" the Sac State game last year, and others with better memories will undoubtedly think of other halves, but this was one of the worst halves of Griz football I can remember for a while.

A few thoughts....

Attention eGrizzers, Turns out Dan Moore is human. IMHO - you can't crucify other players and give Dan a free pass. I wonder if Chris Lider smashed his helmet when Dan put the ball on the ground?

What the hell was Trent McKinney thinking? You can't just throw the ball up for grabs when flushed.

Where I was watching, people were calling for a backup quarterback late in the 3rd. instead we kept TM in there, where he was getting absolutely shelled. Bring SSH in 10 minutes sooner, and maybe you have a shot at another squeaker. I was glad to see SSH get a TD.

Arm tackling (all over the D, not just in the secondary) reminds me of the Griz before Coach Read got the program turned-around. You can't arm tackle, and you especially can't arm tackle Zach Bauman (or tackle him at all for that matter)

My coaching high point was when they sent Nguyen to the edge on 4th and short instead of the more obvious Moore up the middle


People who were calling for the backup QB late in the 3rd really don't know what we have at backup. Nothing against SSH, but that pass was his first completion ever as a Griz. He's now 1-6. NAU made good halftime adjustments and we were still in a shell after getting the decent lead early. Once you take your foot off the gas it's hard to get things going again. We saw that first hand.

McKinney's rookie mistakes will get better as the season goes on. I agree he needs to throw it away if he gets flushed and there's nothing there. You can't force it in there and expect good things to happen at this level.

You mentioned you missed the Sac game last year.. in that game JJ was 9-19 with 3 int's. It was ugly...real ugly. JJ turned out just fine.. I think TM will be fine too.

As other's have posted there are always some growing pains with a brand new young QB. These have been McKinney's first 4 games ever at the college level...and he's been very similar to how JJ was his first 4 starts with the Griz. We'll be OK.

I'm honestly more worried about our defense and o'line at this point than QB play. The way that our OLine could no longer open up any holes after halftime nor protect the QB anymore was very worrisome.

You are definitely right about the tackling too...it was painful to watch Bauman run trough all the arm tackles and drag our defenders several yards. At one point I was pretty sure one of our players was giving him a congratulatory hug as they ran down the sidelines together for that last big run.

I don't remember that particular 4th down play, but after 2 fumbles in the game the coaches might've been a little reluctant to use Moore much. I don't think anyone is really giving Moore a free pass... 3 fumbles in 2 games..not good.. but shit like that happens to good backs occasionally. I'm sure ball security will be the focus of talks with Moore in practice and I wouldn't be surprised to see no more fumbles out of him for a long long time.
 
I have a different opinion about McKinney. I think he needs to run the ball WAY more often. His running game needs to be a featured part of the offense, not a last resort when plays break down. When opposing teams focus on his running threat, it opens up the passing game. Can I get a witness?
 
Potomac Griz said:
You are definitely right about the tackling too...it was painful to watch Bauman run trough all the arm tackles and drag our defenders several yards. At one point I was pretty sure one of our players was giving him a congratulatory hug as they ran down the sidelines together for that last big run.

LOL, I don't know, on a few of those plays it looked like he had parted the Red Sea, and after he got past the line of scrimmage there was no defender within fifteen yards of him ever.
 
AllWeatherFan said:
I have a different opinion about McKinney. I think he needs to run the ball WAY more often. His running game needs to be a featured part of the offense, not a last resort when plays break down. When opposing teams focus on his running threat, it opens up the passing game. Can I get a witness?
amen brother! Jerome even commented on this during his post game interview on TV. He basically said once TM stopped running, their D could handle us easily. But i don't think the play calling needs to change, just TM's approach. For the time being, when the play breaks down, TM needs to tuck it away.
 
garizzalies said:
AllWeatherFan said:
I have a different opinion about McKinney. I think he needs to run the ball WAY more often. His running game needs to be a featured part of the offense, not a last resort when plays break down. When opposing teams focus on his running threat, it opens up the passing game. Can I get a witness?
amen brother! Jerome even commented on this during his post game interview on TV. He basically said once TM stopped running, their D could handle us easily. But i don't think the play calling needs to change, just TM's approach. For the time being, when the play breaks down, TM needs to tuck it away.
:clap:
 
kemajic said:
BWahlberg said:
9. 4th game in a row that our staff has not made the right halftime adjustments. This was a staple of Hauck's and Pflugrads. Work out the kinks in the first half, adjust and win in the 2nd. Go Griz!
Good analysis Brint. But I can hardly agree with this comment. Possibly you did not see NDSU '03, JMU '04, UMass '06, Wofford '07, Villanova '09. All games with 3rd quarter leads that leaked away. Hauck was every bit as stubborn as Delaney has been accused of in this thread. With an ego that prevented his responding to inferiors.
What is significantly different about this team and a BH team is takeaways. So far we are -8 after 4 games (-9 for the two losses). BH teams always seemed to have a big advantage in takeaways. We're turning it over on offense way too much and the D is not forcing enough opponent turnovers.
 
griz4life said:
AllWeatherFan said:
I have read all this and have drawn 3 conclusions:

One: It's not classy for old duffers to call out individual players on message boards.
Two: Griz fans in general need to keep things in better perspective.
Three: Less alcohol, more weed.

Here, Here.

I think it's worth looking at this game a couple times before writing off the Griz as not caring, lacking killer instinct or belly fire or attitude or whatever. Here's a youtube video of Bauman performance yesterday. He's a great RB for their system, but their run blocking was superb, too. They used seven guys, five blocking to the direction of the run. UM didn't adjust and just got man handled.

Check out the video and tell us how belly fire, attitude, or killer instinct was what was lacking. You've got two TEs overloading the right side of the offensive line. I'm pretty sure what was missing was coaching. That's a tough front not to adjust to. And the Griz didn't adjust well. The safety should have been outside the hash mark on the overloaded side (in my opinion), and wasn't. The 3-4 was the wrong call alltogether, but even if it was a 4-3 you're still not going to defend the edge. So what are you going to do. Maybe try a 46 defense to get a couple line backers out on the overloaded edge?
I don't know if that's the answer, I know Gregorak couldn't have possibly seen the overload from the opposite sideline. I think that was a huge problem.
The irony is, at CSU Mick and Sonny would regularly overload the one side with double TE sets. I can't imagine he didn't know how to defend it.
Regardless, It's time for eGrizzers to stop wipping their asses with these players. Those players cared, more than you did, believe me.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtnXRkqAgLs[/youtube]




this is all about scheme and adjustments,,,this is what coaching is all about, i agree that this was the problem, but the coaches upstairs should have seen the run set the first time they used it,,,every play in every series is looked at by the time we take the field defensively in the next series, i don't know what happened in this case, the coaches were not on their game for sure,,,add to that, the poor tackling of our safties, which are the key to run defense and you have a back run for 200 plus yards,,,it was frustrating for people who have been coaches.....when you do not shift for the overload of the line , plus their slot man gives them an extra blocker as well, heck half the time he didn't block anyone because the linebacker pinned to the inside....and if there was safty help, his head was down and whiffed, to put it nice as i can....FRUSTRATING !!!!!!!
 
Potomac Griz said:
mikegriz said:
Wow! No mention of Dan Moore? Really?

People who were calling for the backup QB late in the 3rd really don't know what we have at backup. Nothing against SSH, but that pass was his first completion ever as a Griz. He's now 1-6. NAU made good halftime adjustments and we were still in a shell after getting the decent lead early. Once you take your foot off the gas it's hard to get things going again. We saw that first hand.

McKinney's rookie mistakes will get better as the season goes on. I agree he needs to throw it away if he gets flushed and there's nothing there. You can't force it in there and expect good things to happen at this level.

You mentioned you missed the Sac game last year.. in that game JJ was 9-19 with 3 int's. It was ugly...real ugly. JJ turned out just fine.. I think TM will be fine too.

As other's have posted there are always some growing pains with a brand new young QB. These have been McKinney's first 4 games ever at the college level...and he's been very similar to how JJ was his first 4 starts with the Griz. We'll be OK.

I'm honestly more worried about our defense and o'line at this point than QB play. The way that our OLine could no longer open up any holes after halftime nor protect the QB anymore was very worrisome.

You are definitely right about the tackling too...it was painful to watch Bauman run trough all the arm tackles and drag our defenders several yards. At one point I was pretty sure one of our players was giving him a congratulatory hug as they ran down the sidelines together for that last big run.

I don't remember that particular 4th down play, but after 2 fumbles in the game the coaches might've been a little reluctant to use Moore much. I don't think anyone is really giving Moore a free pass... 3 fumbles in 2 games..not good.. but shit like that happens to good backs occasionally. I'm sure ball security will be the focus of talks with Moore in practice and I wouldn't be surprised to see no more fumbles out of him for a long long time.

I think we all thought that, at that point, things could not get worse at QB. This time, SSH confirmed that thinking. I hope you are right on the rest. Believe me, I don't root against the Griz, this was just a terribly disappointing half of football. Congratulatory hug, that was funny!
 
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