Playing time comparison (Big Sky & Top 10)

[PlayerRep]

The best 5 or 7 games may win championships at times, but they don't all the time. Sometimes you need your depth to step in and step up to win championships. And even the best 5 or 7 can't come into the tourney worn out or hampered by minor injuries. UM isn't going to win the championship with 5 players, and probably isn't going to win with 7 either. If Breunig gets into foul trouble and sits against teams like EWU, Weber and Idaho, the Griz better have some guys on the bench who play very well.

Eastern only had 7 guys average 10+ minutes last year, 4 of them over 30 for the entire year, their two guards were over 33, including their best player who was at 37/game...

Weber only had 7 guys average 10+ minutes in 2014, their best player averaged more than 33 for the year

Montana had 3 guys average more than 31 minutes a game in 2013, your best players averaged 35 and 33 for the year

Montana had only 7 guys average 10+ minutes in 2012, 3 over 30 and your two best about 34/35 a game

What do these teams have in common? They won the Big Sky the last 4 years. But you are right, you really can't win if you only have 5-7 players playing big minutes... :roll:

EWU had 8 players average 9.9 minutes or over last year. In the championship game, only 2 over 28. UM had 4 over 30 and lost. Huh, did UM wear out? Told you so.

In 2014, Weber had 8 players average 9.2 minutes and over. Only 2 over 30 and 1 of them was 30.1. Better balance. In the championship game, only 2 over 30.

In 2013, UM had 9 players average over 11.6 and 1 other averaged 8.3. Hum, did you forget to mention that? In championship game, UM played 8 players a decent amount, and had only 1 over 30.

These figures support my view more than yours.

 

[PlayerRep]

Good post, Mouse. I for one cannot WAIT to see DeJung face off with Bolumboy. That should yield some fantastic basketball.

If Breunig is on the bench in foul trouble, how would you defend Weber? Just curious.

 

[marceagfan5]

The best 5 or 7 games may win championships at times, but they don't all the time. Sometimes you need your depth to step in and step up to win championships. And even the best 5 or 7 can't come into the tourney worn out or hampered by minor injuries. UM isn't going to win the championship with 5 players, and probably isn't going to win with 7 either. If Breunig gets into foul trouble and sits against teams like EWU, Weber and Idaho, the Griz better have some guys on the bench who play very well.

Eastern only had 7 guys average 10+ minutes last year, 4 of them over 30 for the entire year, their two guards were over 33, including their best player who was at 37/game...

Weber only had 7 guys average 10+ minutes in 2014, their best player averaged more than 33 for the year

Montana had 3 guys average more than 31 minutes a game in 2013, your best players averaged 35 and 33 for the year

Montana had only 7 guys average 10+ minutes in 2012, 3 over 30 and your two best about 34/35 a game

What do these teams have in common? They won the Big Sky the last 4 years. But you are right, you really can't win if you only have 5-7 players playing big minutes... :roll:

EWU had 8 players average 9.9 minutes or over last year. In the championship game, only 2 over 28. UM had 4 over 30 and lost. Huh, did UM wear out? Told you so.

In 2014, Weber had 8 players average 9.2 minutes and over. Only 2 over 30 and 1 of them was 30.1. Better balance. In the championship game, only 2 over 30.

In 2013, UM had 9 players average over 11.6 and 1 other averaged 8.3. Hum, did you forget to mention that? In championship game, UM played 8 players a decent amount, and had only 1 over 30.

These figures support my view more than yours.

Easterns starters played 5 MORE minutes than the Griz starters in last years championship game...

I'll just agree to disagree with you on this one

 

[EverettGriz]

We do that a lot around here with PR.

 

[EverettGriz]

Good post, Mouse. I for one cannot WAIT to see DeJung face off with Bolumboy. That should yield some fantastic basketball.

If Breunig is on the bench in foul trouble, how would you defend Weber? Just curious.

I'd go the way TDC has gone all year, with Fabian and Lopez.

But I'm certain you are aware your question isn't even relative to the conversation. Of course if the Griz get into enough foul trouble, it's all hands on deck. But that's a COMPLETELY different conversation than playing deep bench guys at this time of year to develop depth as you are suggesting.

 

[PlayerRep]

The best 5 or 7 games may win championships at times, but they don't all the time. Sometimes you need your depth to step in and step up to win championships. And even the best 5 or 7 can't come into the tourney worn out or hampered by minor injuries. UM isn't going to win the championship with 5 players, and probably isn't going to win with 7 either. If Breunig gets into foul trouble and sits against teams like EWU, Weber and Idaho, the Griz better have some guys on the bench who play very well.

Eastern only had 7 guys average 10+ minutes last year, 4 of them over 30 for the entire year, their two guards were over 33, including their best player who was at 37/game...

Weber only had 7 guys average 10+ minutes in 2014, their best player averaged more than 33 for the year

Montana had 3 guys average more than 31 minutes a game in 2013, your best players averaged 35 and 33 for the year

Montana had only 7 guys average 10+ minutes in 2012, 3 over 30 and your two best about 34/35 a game

What do these teams have in common? They won the Big Sky the last 4 years. But you are right, you really can't win if you only have 5-7 players playing big minutes... :roll:

EWU had 8 players average 9.9 minutes or over last year. In the championship game, only 2 over 28. UM had 4 over 30 and lost. Huh, did UM wear out? Told you so.

In 2014, Weber had 8 players average 9.2 minutes and over. Only 2 over 30 and 1 of them was 30.1. Better balance. In the championship game, only 2 over 30.

In 2013, UM had 9 players average over 11.6 and 1 other averaged 8.3. Hum, did you forget to mention that? In championship game, UM played 8 players a decent amount, and had only 1 over 30.

These figures support my view more than yours.

Easterns starters played 5 MORE minutes than the Griz starters in last years championship game...

I'll just agree to disagree with you on this one

The point is that UM wore down at the end of the game and EWU didn't. EWU played 7 players, 19 or more minutes. UM played 6 players 17 or more minutes. Again, EWU played 2 players over 30 minutes. UM played 4 players over 30 minutes. These stats support my view. I'm fine with disagreeing with you. I think many people on the board disagree with many things you post.

 

[PlayerRep]

Good post, Mouse. I for one cannot WAIT to see DeJung face off with Bolumboy. That should yield some fantastic basketball.

If Breunig is on the bench in foul trouble, how would you defend Weber? Just curious.

I'd go the way TDC has gone all year, with Fabian and Lopez.

But I'm certain you are aware your question isn't even relative to the conversation. Of course if the Griz get into enough foul trouble, it's all hands on deck. But that's a COMPLETELY different conversation than playing deep bench guys at this time of year to develop depth as you are suggesting.

Sometimes Fabian is also in foul trouble. Sometimes there are 2 bigger more athletic posts to defend, and that presents a problem without Breunig. Fabian didn't match up well last year against EWU, and played sparingly despite starting, for example.

No one has suggested that UM play deep bench guys. The suggestion is that UM go out of its way to get extra minutes to depth players that may be necessary for minutes or gaps late in the season and in the tournament. That is exactly what Travis did against SU.

If big foul trouble, and all hands on deck, then it's best to have hands who have been getting some minutes. Again, seems simple to me. And as I have said previously, it's more important at this point of the season to win games than to develop depth.

 

[EverettGriz]

TDC played deep bench players against suu because it wasn't a contest. Those guys would've gotten a better workout playing pick up ball in the rec center.

See if he does that in a close game. If he does, I'll come back and say I was wrong. If he doesn't, you come back and say you were wrong.







BRAWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHH!!!!!!! Like that would EVER happen.

 

[PlayerRep]

TDC played deep bench players against suu because it wasn't a contest. Those guys would've gotten a better workout playing pick up ball in the rec center.

See if he does that in a close game. If he does, I'll come back and say I was wrong. If he doesn't, you come back and say you were wrong.

BRAWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHH!!!!!!! Like that would EVER happen.

Who do you consider deep bench players on the Griz?

No one has ever suggested getting extra minutes to deep bench players in a close game. The main discussion has revolved around whether to stick more with the top of the rotation or try to get more minutes to other contributors and potential contributors early in games and in non-tight games. You and others have indicated that Travis should stick with the top end of the late-season rotation. I don't agree. I think it's important to get more minutes and experience Dunn, Moorehead and DeJong. Dunn is not yet back to top form. Hopefully, he can progress in the remaining weeks. Bradshaw may have fallen out of the mix. It may be too late for Boehning, due to his not even being on the bench for several weeks.

DeJong is averaging 5.4 minutes for season. Dunn 14.1. Boehning and Bradshaw are at 7.

 

[EverettGriz]

I believe as I've said all along that the current rotation is just fine.

 

[PlayerRep]

I believe as I've said all along that the current rotation is just fine.

What do you consider to be the "current rotation"?

Do you disagree with what GrizRule said after the SU game, and I excerpted above?

 

[EverettGriz]

You mean this quote from Rule:

PR, you know as well as I do, the minutes of the studs should be cut back to develop other players in a blowout like that. We both know damn well, in a close game those minutes would have been much different. Either way, it was great to see the GRIZ play a complete game for 40 minutes

Yes, I agree completely. The ONLY reason the rotation changed was because the game was a wipeout and in a close game, the current rotation (which is just fine, as I've stated) would not have changed.

 

[PlayerRep]

You mean this quote from Rule:

PR, you know as well as I do, the minutes of the studs should be cut back to develop other players in a blowout like that. We both know damn well, in a close game those minutes would have been much different. Either way, it was great to see the GRIZ play a complete game for 40 minutes

Yes, I agree completely. The ONLY reason the rotation changed was because the game was a wipeout and in a close game, the current rotation (which is just fine, as I've stated) would not have changed.

Do you agree with these comments of GrizRule after the SU game?

"It was great to see DeJong with developmental minutes."

"I was disappointed and surprised Boehning did not play. I think he might be injured or DeCuire is giving him some tough love for something we will never hear of. Either way, this game was a perfect opportunity to get him some developmental minutes and it did not happen."

"Oguine was not the only freshman who played well. Moorehead, like Oguine, played calm and cool, and hit double digits without missing a shot. These young guys are getting better every game."

"Maybe the best news of all, no GRIZ logged more than 30 minutes on the court."

 

[PlayerRep]

You mean this quote from Rule:

PR, you know as well as I do, the minutes of the studs should be cut back to develop other players in a blowout like that. We both know damn well, in a close game those minutes would have been much different. Either way, it was great to see the GRIZ play a complete game for 40 minutes

Yes, I agree completely. The ONLY reason the rotation changed was because the game was a wipeout and in a close game, the current rotation (which is just fine, as I've stated) would not have changed.

But Everett, you have been saying that Travis shouldn't have changed his rotation in this game.

 

[EverettGriz]

JESUS you are UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE.


Show me where I said that even ONCE.

The rotation will change in blowouts. It will not change just to give guys floor time in close games. That's what EVERYONE EXCEPT YOU has said this entire thread (along with a few others you fucked up with the same ridiculous argument). I seriously think you have major intelligence deficiencies. I don't know if it's early (although really not so early in your case) onset Alzheimer's, general dementia, or perhaps CTE's from playing with leather helmets. But I strongly suggest you get yourself checked by a reputable physician. You are not well.

 

[GrizWhiz]

JESUS you are UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE.


Show me where I said that even ONCE.

The rotation will change in blowouts. It will not change just to give guys floor time in close games. That's what EVERYONE EXCEPT YOU has said this entire thread (along with a few others you f***[*] up with the same ridiculous argument). I seriously think you have major intelligence deficiencies. I don't know if it's early (although really not so early in your case) onset Alzheimer's, general dementia, or perhaps CTE's from playing with leather helmets. But I strongly suggest you get yourself checked by a reputable physician. You are not well.

or...you can simply write this off due to PR's proclivity for recreational arguing spiced with a side order of lying when necessary! :thumb:

 

[mtgrizrule]

Wow, let me make this clear. I am neutral on this subject. Playing time and depth will vary game to game, depending on opponent, matchups, health, etc. Last week the GRIZ were fortunate. They played well enough to comfortably accomplish great play. The reward, was some needed rest for players logging big minutes, and developmental opportunity for the players who needed the minutes. Travis played this hand PERFECT with who was available to him. In the past he has waited until the last 4 minutes of the game to get the playing time in for the bench. He has tried it earlier on a few occasions, each time the bench let the opponent make a run. In turn, Travis brought back in his key players.

Do I feel Dejong and Moorehead did enough to justify more minutes in closer games? Hell yeah, I do. Dunn is not even in question here. We know what he can do, when healthy. Will Travis play DeJong and Moorehead over 10 minutes each for now on? That is yet to be seen. I do feel Dejong and/or Boehning (if he can play, for whatever the reasons are) will likely be part of the game plan against Weber State in spelling Krslovic and Breunig. They can also afford to burn some fouls on Weber's big men, to send them to the line and hope to frustrate them.

Overall, as for playing time, I will default to Travis on the decision on this one. Will I at times question why he did not take advantage of the opportunity to develop a player or 2? It depends on situation and the variables. As for the SUU game, I feel Travis coached and took advantage of the situation as perfectly as a coach could. Then in turn, his players rewarded him with execution as perfectly as they could as well. THAT is how every coach and team would like to see the outcome be when in that situation!! Unfortunately, it does not play out like that very often at this level.

 

[PlayerRep]

JESUS you are UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE.


Show me where I said that even ONCE.

The rotation will change in blowouts. It will not change just to give guys floor time in close games. That's what EVERYONE EXCEPT YOU has said this entire thread (along with a few others you f***[*] up with the same ridiculous argument). I seriously think you have major intelligence deficiencies. I don't know if it's early (although really not so early in your case) onset Alzheimer's, general dementia, or perhaps CTE's from playing with leather helmets. But I strongly suggest you get yourself checked by a reputable physician. You are not well.

or...you can simply write this off due to PR's proclivity for recreational arguing spiced with a side order of lying when necessary! :thumb:

Zero lying from me. Occasional typos, mistakes, etc.

I know that I got Everett's goat years ago and he often sees red when he sees my posts. When he picks away without substance and makes no sense, or posts dumb stuff like this, it makes me chuckle. I think he's the one who should seek medical help.

 

[PlayerRep]

Wow, let me make this clear. I am neutral on this subject. Playing time and depth will vary game to game, depending on opponent, matchups, health, etc. Last week the GRIZ were fortunate. They played well enough to comfortably accomplish great play. The reward, was some needed rest for players logging big minutes, and developmental opportunity for the players who needed the minutes. Travis played this hand PERFECT with who was available to him. In the past he has waited until the last 4 minutes of the game to get the playing time in for the bench. He has tried it earlier on a few occasions, each time the bench let the opponent make a run. In turn, Travis brought back in his key players.

Do I feel Dejong and Moorehead did enough to justify more minutes in closer games? Hell yeah, I do. Dunn is not even in question here. We know what he can do, when healthy. Will Travis play DeJong and Moorehead over 10 minutes each for now on? That is yet to be seen. I do feel Dejong and/or Boehning (if he can play, for whatever the reasons are) will likely be part of the game plan against Weber State in spelling Krslovic and Breunig. They can also afford to burn some fouls on Weber's big men, to send them to the line and hope to frustrate them.

Overall, as for playing time, I will default to Travis on the decision on this one. Will I at times question why he did not take advantage of the opportunity to develop a player or 2? It depends on situation and the variables. As for the SUU game, I feel Travis coached and took advantage of the situation as perfectly as a coach could. Then in turn, his players rewarded him with execution as perfectly as they could as well. THAT is how every coach and team would like to see the outcome be when in that situation!! Unfortunately, it does not play out like that very often at this level.

Looks like you and I agree on the subject. Too bad some of these other guys want to disagree with me (and in this case you too), even though they may actually agree with us.

 

[EverettGriz]

JESUS you are UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE.


Show me where I said that even ONCE.

The rotation will change in blowouts. It will not change just to give guys floor time in close games. That's what EVERYONE EXCEPT YOU has said this entire thread (along with a few others you f***[*] up with the same ridiculous argument). I seriously think you have major intelligence deficiencies. I don't know if it's early (although really not so early in your case) onset Alzheimer's, general dementia, or perhaps CTE's from playing with leather helmets. But I strongly suggest you get yourself checked by a reputable physician. You are not well.

or...you can simply write this off due to PR's proclivity for recreational arguing spiced with a side order of lying when necessary! :thumb:

Zero lying from me. Occasional typos, mistakes, etc.

I know that I got Everett's goat years ago and he often sees red when he sees my posts. When he picks away without substance and makes no sense, or posts dumb stuff like this, it makes me chuckle. I think he's the one who should seek medical help.

Pr, I'd have to give two shits about you to have my "goat gotten" by you. And I don't even give one shit.

I tell you what would bother me, however: being called out as a liar by some of the most respected posters on the board.