Petition In Support Of Pat Williams

[Griz2k]

I for one will not be signing any petition that supports Pat Williams.

 

[info]

I for one will not be signing any petition that supports Pat Williams.

+1

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Hypocrisy is a two-way street. I'm pretty liberal, and I think what Williams said was idiotic. Scott Gratton, author of the petition, is also pretty left of center I believe. So don't try to turn this into another simple-minded political debate. We might actually agree on something here.

I was not talking about the authors of the petition, but rather some of the VERY dumb comments posted underneath it.

I should clarify that I meant Gratton authored the "censure Williams" petition, not the pro-Williams petition, according to today's Missoulian.

 

[RABIDAWG]

The 1st amendment right of free speech gives us the right to speak regardless of whether we are right or wrong, smart or stupid. It does not require those who hear it to agree. If a person gets up and speaks in support of child abuse, an employer can chose to not hire that person because of that speech. The constitution does not require that we accept the message of free speech and it does not forbid us from forming opinions based on that speech.

Appointment to a governing board should be based on a persons character, dedication and good judgment. Pat Williams has every right to state his opinion just like people have the right to perceive his character, dedication and judgment based on his statement. I support his right to make a statement like he did. Based on that statement and my perception of him over the years, I don't believe he has the character, dedication or good judgment to sit on a board directing the fate of college athletes he so disdains.

In my opinion, simply having Pat Williams as a member of the Board of Regents puts the rights of those young people he collectively condemns in jeopardy. Pat Williams right of free speech remains intact. Given his power, he is protected. The rights of the students he freely demonizes should be of concern to the Governor and legislature. They should weigh that risk and Williams statements should be considered as representative of the threat to the rights of these students.

Just like someone so strongly biased and extreme should not serve on a jury, Pat Williams should not serve in a position of control on the BOR.

On target! That's why we write letters or petition the powers that be to be rid of the idiot!

 

[zengriz]

There are a number of freedoms I cherish and that the constitution holds sacred. First is the right to bare arms. The second is freedom of speech. Williams has both those rights as well. Simply disagree and move on. To protect and honor his right of free speech I too am starting a petition, but in support of Williams. More to come.

...dude..let me be brief...
...williams commentz on the eve of johnsons trial...
...below the belt and so frickking out of boundz...
...he should be censured and bitch slapped...

... ...

 

[Griz Voice of Reason]

Good comments and thoughtful opinions. Thank u. I still think Pat was within his right to speak his mind. Our society often wishes that folks would be less political and speak what they feel and think. Imagine if Pat simply said nothing but killed the program behind close doors. At least this way we, the public, know exactly what he thinks. I find the candor refreshing from a public official. In addition, there is some truth to his concerns. We have had and do have issues. Don't u think that Pat's openness actually will ensure these issues are addressed? As opposed to swept under the rug.

FWIW, someone made a recommendation to me via this board. I am happy to report I took their advice, marched in to my supervisors office, told them exactly what I thought, and used profane language in doing so. The outcome was right out of Seinfeld with my getting a promotion and raise. They love my candor and the balls to say what I think. U should all give it a try!

 

[rgrizfan]

Anyone has the freedom of speech, and what PW said would cost him a job with many companies at many positions. Nobody is taking away anyone's freedom of speech. If I were to refer to my employer and fellow employees as "thugs", I would lose my job that very day.

+1

 

[Umista]

I do not like Pat! Never have! Never.

 

[grizdax]

Well I'm certainly not signing your petition. These problems DO need to be addressed. But the University and the remaining majority of football players do not need to be drug through the mud to the national media.

Williams needs to be removed and replaced with someone with a little more class.

 

[grizbrokebacker1]

Williams needs to be removed and replaced with someone with a little more class.

i.e. somebody who will keep their mouth shut and hope everything magically goes away? How'd that turn out for Paterno, O'Day, Pflugrad?

 

[grizdax]

Great. Then lets find out all the identities of those that post idiotic comments on this board and then create petitions for them to lose their job. This site has turned into a good ol' fire and pitch fork affair with people taking action against a person they simply disagree with. The funny thing is that while he did go a little extreme there is truth in his comments.

You could go ahead and throw your name out too, if you'd like.

I did some serious laughing when I read this one. Well said sir.

 

[GrizPony]

Awesome!

 

[grizdax]

Williams needs to be removed and replaced with someone with a little more class.

i.e. somebody who will keep their mouth shut and hope everything magically goes away? How'd that turn out for Paterno, O'Day, Pflugrad?

Yeah. Great comparison. Read the first part of what I wrote. The problems DO need to be addressed, and I believe ARE being addressed. Address the problems. Don't grandstand to the national media, to bolster your own ego.

I can't for the life of me understand why he feels the need to repeatedly sully the name of the University he pretends to be defending.

I can't help but question the timing of these statements either.

 

[Grisly Fan]

Williams needs to be removed and replaced with someone with a little more class.

i.e. somebody who will keep their mouth shut and hope everything magically goes away? How'd that turn out for Paterno, O'Day, Pflugrad?

Actually, I heard through the grapevine that Pflugrad was dismissed in part because of a statement to the press in support of JJ. Does that at least partly answer your question?

 

[Grizzoola]

I believe if he said, "The UM has had issues with recruiting thugs in the past who have put the UM football program in a bad light with their arrests and thuggery. This issue is being addressed and I realize we're talking about a handful of kids over the years, however even a handful is too many." Then I can't really imagine anyone being up in arms about this.

Exactly. :thumb:

 

[br fan]

There are a number of freedoms I cherish and that the constitution holds sacred. First is the right to bare arms. The second is freedom of speech. Williams has both those rights as well. Simply disagree and move on. To protect and honor his right of free speech I too am starting a petition, but in support of Williams. More to come.

You're entitled that that opinion for sure, and yes he is most certainly entitled to his opinion and voicing it. No one wants him silenced, the petition is not asking him to change his opinion.

I see it from a few points:

1. First and foremost it should be clearly stated that YES the Grizzlies in the past have made mistakes on a few recruits that one can easily say, they came here and acted like thugs and most were arrested/punished for that behavior. The issue I take (and others have) with it is the WAY Regent Williams made that point. He used a broad brush in not one but two interviews to label the entire team and state that it's an ongoing problem. I believe if he said, "The UM has had issues with recruiting thugs in the past who have put the UM football program in a bad light with their arrests and thuggery. This issue is being addressed and I realize we're talking about a handful of kids over the years, however even a handful is too many." Then I can't really imagine anyone being up in arms about this. Instead he did not differentiate, he called the players and recruits thugs who commit thuggery and lawless marauders. He didn't back down and in a radio interview said he was going to sit down with our current head coach to talk about recruiting practices - which tells me he thinks this is still going on.

I too have a problem with the WAY he made his point. The sound bite paints a broad picture of all Griz football players, and like Brint says implies the problems are still going on. But if you read his interview with Peter Christian where he "stood by" his comments to the NYT, he was very complimentary of the steps taken by Mick, Engstrom, UM etc.

Williams is a politician and a smart guy, which makes me wonder why he chose to ignite the flames, or keep the flames burning, depending on how you want to view this. Based on his interview with Christian, I think Williams believes UM has now done everything they can do at their level to run a "clean" program, but doesn't think that is enough. Once the Johnson trial is over, Williams is going to try to get the BOR to implement changes regarding recruiting that will affect all Montana schools, not just UM. I think Williams believes the "system" of college recruiting needs to be changed, and he's keeping UM in the spotlight to get those changes made.

I haven't decided whether I agree with whether changes need to be made to the "system," but I do know it bothers me that Williams wants to play politics with UM's name to get there.

 

[indian-outlaw]

I believe if he said, "The UM has had issues with recruiting thugs in the past who have put the UM football program in a bad light with their arrests and thuggery. This issue is being addressed and I realize we're talking about a handful of kids over the years, however even a handful is too many." Then I can't really imagine anyone being up in arms about this.

Exactly right Brint! The statement was a little clumsy but not untruthful at all. I've always liked Pat Williams and he helped me out with a veterans administration issue way back in the 80's and I know him to be a good person. Sometimes the truth hurts folks but those of us that really do want the griz back on the right track know that some changes need to happen and that starts with public awareness and fan attitude.
I have already e-mailed my support to the folks that matter.

 

[rgrizfan]

I believe if he said, "The UM has had issues with recruiting thugs in the past who have put the UM football program in a bad light with their arrests and thuggery. This issue is being addressed and I realize we're talking about a handful of kids over the years, however even a handful is too many." Then I can't really imagine anyone being up in arms about this.

Exactly right Brint! The statement was a little clumsy but not untruthful at all. I've always liked Pat Williams and he helped me out with a veterans administration issue way back in the 80's and I know him to be a good person. Sometimes the truth hurts folks but those of us that really do want the griz back on the right track know that some changes need to happen and that starts with public awareness and fan attitude.
I have already e-mailed my support to the folks that matter.

and because he did not...he should be removed from his position.

 

[Gaeilge1]

There has been alot of comment here about the first amendment and exactly what it says. Here is the text of the first amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

It is important to note that while Congress is prohibited from abridging free speech the Supreme Court has determined almost since the inception of the first amendment that this freedom of speech is not without limits. Someone already posted the limitation of yelling "fire" in a crowded environment if one did not exist. This is illegal in every state but I don't think that Congress ever passed a law that states it's illegal. There is a whole area of Constitutional Law that deals with this subject directly. The Supreme Court has determined in several cases that any speech that incites the overthrow of the government or represents a clear and present danger to the public is not protected under the first amendment. Likewise there are all sorts of decisions defining obscenity and pornography, forms of both free speech and freedom of the press.

Speech that involves incitement, false statements of fact, obscenity, child pornography, threats, and speech owned by others are all completely exempt from First Amendment protections and there have evolved both criminal and civil penalties for violating these exemptions. Commercial advertising, for example, receives diminished but not eliminated protection.

The government as an employer, has historically placed all kinds of restrictions on what its employee's can and can't say and print. Religious Institutions usually have a strict code that prohibits certain speech. While I don't know this as an unqualified fact my strong assumption is that the Catholic Church has very few avowed Atheist's working for it.

The point is that while we do enjoy a constitutionally protected right to free speech, that right is certainly not unabridged and unlimited. If it were unlimited we would not have any laws against perjury or slander.

Whether PW had the "right" to say what he did is not the real question. The question is whether PW had the right to say what he did in the context of when and how he said it and whether he was speaking as a member of a governmental agency.

Because I don't know the answer to this question I won't be signing either petition.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Some people on this board seem to be equating "membership on the board of regents" with "employment." It ain't the same thing.