our football program: prisoner of nepotism

[Grizbacker1]

Are there any other examples of interim coaches coaching for 3+ seasons? I don't know of one. It's a weird situation. People talk about a coaching change being hard on recruiting, but I can't imagine it's easy for a player to commit to a program and coach when he knows with probably 90% certainty that the HC that is recruiting him won't be the HC he graduates with. Unless, of course, they are telling recruits that one of the current staff is a "HC in waiting" and there won't be significant changes over the next 5 years which is a little concerning, IMO.

Delaney ceased being interim the day he was given a 2 year deal, so your arguement is pretty much moot

 

[grizophile]

Well, looking ahead, who is a good HC candidate from outside the MT gene pool?

I've seen Dan Hawkins name thrown around a few times. Is he damaged goods or what? He probably deserves another chance, no?

Negative! Colorado still trying to recover from that hire.

 

[griz4life]

Wasn't Colorado already in recovery mode before Hawkins was hired. I think their program was in shambles when he got there. Didn't they get popped for offering sex to recruits?

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

Ahhh yes, my bad on Joe Glenn.

 

[Buttegrizzle]

Meh. We've had great success with our inside-hires for 25 plus years. It definitely helps with the continuity of recruiting. We went outside to get that Big Time basketball coach Pat Kennedy. That worked out real well.

 

[griz4life]

Meh. We've had great success with our inside-hires for 25 plus years. It definitely helps with the continuity of recruiting. We went outside to get that Big Time basketball coach Pat Kennedy. That worked out real well.

No. Pat Kennedy didn't work out well on multiple levels. However the shift from Holst to Kennedy came with the goal of converting Montana to a mid-major power, a goal Krysko advanced and Tinkle sort of has. Attendance was on the decline and butts in seats matter.
I have no problem with trying to become a mid-major power. I would love to see that goal accomplished, still.

 

[Eriul]

Reading this thread one would think we went 6-6 or worse. Pessimistic v. Optimistic. Which side are you on?

 

[GrizRanger]

Is there any point in debating who should head the Griz football program when such decisions are in the hand of a University president who could care less about football, and worse yet, likely does not want a dominant football program at UM.

I don't know Engstrom could care less, or if he just doesn't get it. Jim O'Day used to talk about this disconnect between the administration and the realities of the athletic department. There was this presumption that somehow athletics could always churn up more ticket revenue, always shake the booster money tree to cover its costs. I always thought the disconnect included more things than just the revenue picture.
I'm not sure anyone in Main Hall realizes what it takes to build and maintain a successful football program, not a team, a program. What Montana did, and I do mean did, for 20 years was remarkable, both in the thought UM put behind selecting its coaches, and also the way it boosted sponsorship, expanded facilities without going into debt, grew its fanbase in a state so big it really is asking something of people to travel hundreds of miles to see your team every home game. Even the televised games egrizzers criticize are a remarkable accomplishment. There are PAC 12 teams that still don't get live coverage of their games in their home state. Montana has pretty much had that for 14 years.

Now UM is nearly two years out from firing hits AD and head coach in the middle of spring practice. UM went from semi finalist to its first losing record in damn near 30 years. It didn't make a purposeful hire in 2012, but rather scrambled to find a coach who could be on the job ready to go by the time the team returned from spring break to finish its spring practice minus an innocent young man the administration was doing all it could to drum out of school.
The facilities upgrades that used to progress fairly easily have become much more difficult. Somwehere, I still have the email Engstrom issued to GSA members in the spring of 2012 that the study center was on track and construction was going to begin later that year. Guess it wasn't as easy as shaking the booster money tree after all.
We're due for an increase in ticket prices in 2014. Sounds like the sideline sections without chair backs will be getting them next year and the buy in to sit there will increase significantly. Are fans ready for that, or is this an example of the administration assuming Griz fans will pony up and show up no matter what?
The administration, it seems gets kind of caught up in this notion that Griz football is unsinkable. It's kind of like fans who believe that somehow crowd noise is responsible for Griz victories at home, rather than Griz home victories being responsible for the crowd noise. In fact, in the biggest games this year, UM was very much urging fans days in advance to show up and bring the noise. Turns out it was just that, noise. Coastal Carolina could have cared less. Eastern didn't give a rip and John Blanchette pretty much ridiculed UM for becoming a parody of itself with all its crowd nonsense and all the other smoke and mirrors that now come with Griz football, but do nothing to improve the actual performance.
Will the next Griz football hire be a nepotism hire? Probably. That's not all that unusual in college athletics. You turn to the people you know or the people who know people and they tend to draw a pretty tight circle. So if the next head coach is a Scott Gragg or some coordinator from another FCS school who also happens to have ties to UM and the new AD, don't be surprised. It's always safer to go with what you know, especially when the people advising your are also comfortable with the choice. Before that happens, the administration and its new AD may have to retrace some steps to get pack to program building instead of assuming Griz football is unsinkable.

Thank you for the interesting response, but in reference to the Griz football program being unsinkable, I think Engstrom fashioned a huge iceberg in the path of the Griz journey across the FCS ocean when he fired Pflugrad and ODay to direct attention away from his own failures.

 

[citygriz]

sorta like the beltway in politics, a clubby inborn group that looks out for itself rather than the best interests of the football program and the fans, with its own shills to tell us that today is okay and tomorrow will be better.

engstrom: it all starts at the top. a nationwide search for a president and all they could find was a provost down the hall. some search! when the decisions were made to fire o'day and pflugrad, i figured there was a lot i didn't know, other shoes to drop. these months later, i still don't understand that decision--one hugely detrimental to the football program. the first rule of decison-making is, consider the consequences. i don't think engstrom ever did.

"

when i made this post, suggesting it all starts at the top, i forgot about the "tippy top," the board of regents, and one big shoe that did in fact drop later.

pat williams made his "thug" comments about our football program a year after o'day and pflu were fired, but those comments surely reflected the pressure engstrom was under from williams and the board long before, probably to cut the purse strings if some heads didn't roll. credit engstrom, at least, for standing up to the "thug" comments. i wish he'd been strong enough to stand up to williams earlier.

you can say, williams got his. but not before he got us.

 

[Hammer]

pat williams made his "thug" comments about our football program a year after o'day and pflu were fired

You may want to check your timeline.

 

[MiningCityGrizFan]

When I was in grad school at the business school I ran the computer labs. One summer I was working the front counter and a guy came in a was printing off a resume for a job at Kinko's. I thought it was odd when I glanced at it coming off the printer and saw he was referencing his position on the Northern Colorado coaching staff. We started talking and it turned out he was an position coach for the Griz under Glenn.

Pretty sad statement that the position coaches on the staff have to seek part time jobs during the summer just to make ends meet. It's next to impossible for a guy like that to stick around for any length of time. That means it's simply not possible to keep a coaching staff together long enough to really gain a competitive advantage over time through a cohesive system.

It affects not just UM, but MSU too. Look at how DM had a different OC every year he played. Imagine how much more he could have accomplished if he wasn't trying to master a new offense every single year...

Look how good the Griz were in Pflu's last year in 2011 -- both OC and DC were lost that off-season. There was no way to carry the momentum into 2012 despite the off season issues that followed. If you don't think that matters, then look at what long-term stability has done for programs like NDSU and EWU. Those schools are now the standard bearers for FCS football in the region...

The way the State of Montana is structured, it will never be better than it has been. Even if there was a huge donor that was willing to pay for all of the coaches salaries, the regents would still have to approve it. Most likely the wouldn't allow it either if they felt it gave one state school an advantage over the other...

It's not nepotism that's the problem -- it's politics.

All that aside, when it comes time to choose the next Griz head coach, I hope they truly do make it a national search. I'm a big Bobby Hauck fan, but part of me wonders -- What if the Griz would have hired Brian Kelly instead of Bobby?

 

[Silvertip]

UM never really had a chance with Kelly. Even at Grand Valley State his salary indicated that the Griz really had no shot at bringing him to Missoula, plus I think he voiced reservations about moving so far removed from an area where his recruiting roots were. His advancement through Central Michigan, Cincinnati and on to Notre Dame supports the evidence that he's always been a Midwest kind of guy.

 

[George Ferguson]

I cannot believe after all these years, there are people that STILL think Brian Kelly was passed over for Bobby Hauck! LOL. Kelly signed a contract extension at GVSU BEFORE Bobby was announced as the head coach at UM. In fact, according to his historical bio on GVSU's website, and a quick search of when BH was announced as head coach, it shows Kelly signed the extension a full month BEFORE BH was hired.

Also, what exactly IS a national search? That gets thrown around an awful lot on this board. Do people honestly believe that applications and resume's that aren't postmarked with a Montana zip code are thrown in the garbage or never opened? Come on man.

 

[PlayerRep]

I cannot believe after all these years, there are people that STILL think Brian Kelly was passed over for Bobby Hauck! LOL. Kelly signed a contract extension at GVSU BEFORE Bobby was announced as the head coach at UM. In fact, according to his historical bio on GVSU's website, and a quick search of when BH was announced as head coach, it shows Kelly signed the extension a full month BEFORE BH was hired.

Also, what exactly IS a national search? That gets thrown around an awful lot on this board. Do people honestly believe that applications and resume's that aren't postmarked with a Montana zip code are thrown in the garbage or never opened? Come on man.

Hav, as I posted previously over one of your similar posts, you are not correct on some of this. Here's the first part of a Missoulian article linked elsewhere:

"
"December 18, 2002 12:00 am • JON KASPER of the Missoulian
(0) Comments

Officials at Michigan's Grand Valley State won't let Brian Kelly go without a fight.

Kelly, who interviewed for the University of Montana's vacant head coaching position Monday in Michigan, will receive a hefty raise if he remains the Lakers' coach.

The Grand Rapids (Mich.) Press reported Kelly's contract has been extended to five years and he will have his salary of $73,000 increased to at least $100,000. Grand Valley State athletic director Tim Selgo wouldn't tell the newspaper the exact figure because the contract has not been signed.

"But I will tell you it will be six figures and it will put him at the top of Division II," Selgo told the newspaper. "We have certainly done what we feel is in the best interest of the university and Brian Kelly to make sure he stays at Grand Valley."

Montana athletic director Wayne Hogan and UM assistant athletic director for media relations Dave Guffey traveled to Allendale, Mich., to interview Kelly.

University of Washington assistant coach Bob Hauck interviewed Sunday in Seattle. A source close to the interview process said both Hogan and Guffey were very impressed with Hauck's presentation, enthusiasm and list of potential assistant coaches."

 

[citygriz]

pat williams made his "thug" comments about our football program a year after o'day and pflu were fired

You may want to check your timeline.

why?

 

[George Ferguson]

Player, I get your point that Kelly interviewed for the job. I'm merely pointing out that he signed his extension with GVSU BEFORE Hauck was hired. He used the Montana job to become the highest paid NCAA DII coach in the country. He was not passed over for Bobby in the manner people think. There are some on this board who believe that Kelly and Hauck were sat down in a room together and UM picked Hauck and sent Kelly home. It's simply not true. As I said, you can read about it on his GVSU bio. And even if it were true, I guess I'll be the lone wolf and say I wouldn't care because the Hauck era was pretty damn good in my eyes.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread as it's all kind of stupid as Mick Delaney is the coach for the 2014 season and I would NOT be the least bit shocked if he were back in 2015 either.

 

[Griz1]

I cannot believe after all these years, there are people that STILL think Brian Kelly was passed over for Bobby Hauck! LOL. Kelly signed a contract extension at GVSU BEFORE Bobby was announced as the head coach at UM. In fact, according to his historical bio on GVSU's website, and a quick search of when BH was announced as head coach, it shows Kelly signed the extension a full month BEFORE BH was hired.

Also, what exactly IS a national search? That gets thrown around an awful lot on this board. Do people honestly believe that applications and resume's that aren't postmarked with a Montana zip code are thrown in the garbage or never opened? Come on man.

Hav, as I posted previously over one of your similar posts, you are not correct on some of this. Here's the first part of a Missoulian article linked elsewhere:

"
"December 18, 2002 12:00 am • JON KASPER of the Missoulian
(0) Comments

Officials at Michigan's Grand Valley State won't let Brian Kelly go without a fight.

Kelly, who interviewed for the University of Montana's vacant head coaching position Monday in Michigan, will receive a hefty raise if he remains the Lakers' coach.

The Grand Rapids (Mich.) Press reported Kelly's contract has been extended to five years and he will have his salary of $73,000 increased to at least $100,000. Grand Valley State athletic director Tim Selgo wouldn't tell the newspaper the exact figure because the contract has not been signed.

"But I will tell you it will be six figures and it will put him at the top of Division II," Selgo told the newspaper. "We have certainly done what we feel is in the best interest of the university and Brian Kelly to make sure he stays at Grand Valley."

Montana athletic director Wayne Hogan and UM assistant athletic director for media relations Dave Guffey traveled to Allendale, Mich., to interview Kelly.

University of Washington assistant coach Bob Hauck interviewed Sunday in Seattle. A source close to the interview process said both Hogan and Guffey were very impressed with Hauck's presentation, enthusiasm and list of potential assistant coaches."

It is not often I agree with PlayerRep but he is correct on this. Brian Kelly didn't become the Griz coach because another ex-coach expressed and opinion on him to the AD, who declined to hire him. Yes Grand Valley then raised the anti but it was after a decision was made to go in another direction. I fail to understand why havgrizfan won't acknowledge this point except maybe he didn't and doesn't know it. I don't care what a bio says they have been know to be wrong. I struggle to believe that anyone thinks Bobby and Kelly were in the room same room together and one sent home. Kelly was never on campus and Bobby's interview took place after the Kelly decision.

Now with that being said I agree with havgrizfan that Bobby did a "damn good" job for the Griz and IMO was a great hire and the perfect one for the time. I will take him, his character and his record any time.

Like havgrizfan I'm done with this tread too and will support Mick Delaney in any way I possibly can because he is the face of Griz football now.

 

[MiningCityGrizFan]

I cannot believe after all these years, there are people that STILL think Brian Kelly was passed over for Bobby Hauck! LOL. Kelly signed a contract extension at GVSU BEFORE Bobby was announced as the head coach at UM. In fact, according to his historical bio on GVSU's website, and a quick search of when BH was announced as head coach, it shows Kelly signed the extension a full month BEFORE BH was hired.

Also, what exactly IS a national search? That gets thrown around an awful lot on this board. Do people honestly believe that applications and resume's that aren't postmarked with a Montana zip code are thrown in the garbage or never opened? Come on man.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/unlv-rebels/football/new-coach-bobby-hauck-has-big-mountain-climb-get-program-out-doldrums" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...Even as an assistant under Neuheisel, the always-prepared Hauck knew how to sell. When Neuheisel needed to close the deal on a recruit, he sent in Hauck.

So when Hauck had to sell himself in an interview for the Montana position, he had a plan. Two other candidates were Brian Kelly (now Notre Dame's coach) and Robin Pflugrad (now Montana's head man)...

havgrizfan -- If you can provide any article to show Kelly withdrew from consideration, then I'd be interested in reading it. Until then I'll continue to believe Kelly was a candidate for the job and that Hauck was selected over him.

 

[PlayerRep]

Kelly applied and was one of the finalists (to the extent there were finalists). Hogan interviewed Kelly. Kelly used the possible UM job to get an extended/larger contract with the GVS, and decided to stay at GVS. Hogan continued interviews, all or most of which occurred outside of Missoula. Even if Kelly was "the" or "a" leading candidate, and my impression was that he was at least "a" leading candidate, he took himself out of consideration after renegotiating a better GVS contract. All of this happened quickly, like in a several day period.

 

[BWahlberg]

I cannot believe after all these years, there are people that STILL think Brian Kelly was passed over for Bobby Hauck! LOL. Kelly signed a contract extension at GVSU BEFORE Bobby was announced as the head coach at UM. In fact, according to his historical bio on GVSU's website, and a quick search of when BH was announced as head coach, it shows Kelly signed the extension a full month BEFORE BH was hired.

Also, what exactly IS a national search? That gets thrown around an awful lot on this board. Do people honestly believe that applications and resume's that aren't postmarked with a Montana zip code are thrown in the garbage or never opened? Come on man.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/unlv-rebels/football/new-coach-bobby-hauck-has-big-mountain-climb-get-program-out-doldrums" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...Even as an assistant under Neuheisel, the always-prepared Hauck knew how to sell. When Neuheisel needed to close the deal on a recruit, he sent in Hauck.

So when Hauck had to sell himself in an interview for the Montana position, he had a plan. Two other candidates were Brian Kelly (now Notre Dame's coach) and Robin Pflugrad (now Montana's head man)...

havgrizfan -- If you can provide any article to show Kelly withdrew from consideration, then I'd be interested in reading it. Until then I'll continue to believe Kelly was a candidate for the job and that Hauck was selected over him.

google search revealed this egriz post which cites a KECI story and then an official release from Grand Valley State: http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?t=856&p=5783" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That release was dated 12/18/2002

Hauck was introduced as head coach 12/20/2002

http://www.gogriz.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/122002aad.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;