our football program: prisoner of nepotism

[montana_jack]

Well, looking ahead, who is a good HC candidate from outside the MT gene pool?

 

[RayWill]

You point out your issues, but offer no solution.

FTC

Here, I will spell it out for you since you cant grasp simplicity.

Hire outside of the program.


If you still need help understanding this..............I give up and am at a loss.

Oh, hire someone like Tim Hauck. Gotcha.

Hire anyone but Tim Hauck or anyone else related to the program.

New blood, new ideas and new life.

Its kind of amazing there are not more of you on the Delaney bandwagon when you enjoy pounding the same play over and over and expecting different results.

Same goes for the coaching hires since Glenn. If you like sliding back to Big Sky teams like EWU, MSU and UND then by all means keep doing what you are doing, if you like teams that cant finish, then by all means keep hitting the feeder bar. :roll:

It kills me to say this but I agree with AG1 on this point. We need new blood and new life. Time to move on from the past and start a new dynasty.

 

[PlayerRep]

HIre the best candidate for the program and best available coach who is willing come to Missoula and work for the modest offered pay.

Evaluate whether the coach will be able to attract assistant coaches who will come to Missoula and work for UM's lower pay scale. Look at whether the coach and his likely assistants know UM's recruiting territory and have contacts in the area.

Of course, evaluate the coaching skills of the coach, and what type of program he will run.

Consider whether the coach will be able to assist with fundraising and whether the coach has positives and contacts within the UM fundraising sphere.

Consider whether the coach and his staff will be committed to staying at UM for at least 5 or so years, or will leave prematurely for a better/bigger opportunity.

Don't worry about a national search. In this day and age of communication, a national search is a misnomer and just plain silly. Every interested coach in the country will know if the UM job is open.

Evaluate how long it will take the coach to get up to speed at UM and in Montana.
If the coach has coached at UM previously or has connections to UM or the Big Sky, view that as a positive and, of course, not a negative.

 

[George Ferguson]

Griz4life, Uhh, well, just because those kids signed a LOI doesn't mean they would have showed up had the dude who sat in most of their living rooms been fired. Do you honestly believe that one MONTH after signing day, had the Montana football team had NO COACHING STAFF, that the roster would look the same right now??? I sure as hell don't. Of course, there's no way to prove that. But I feel pretty certain there would have been some important kids from that class that would not be here right now, had the entire UM coaching staff been purged with Pflu.

And I hate name-dropping on this board, but I'm gonna' tell you guys that think Delaney should have been let go at some point, or even after the CC game, Jordan Johnson is probably more loyal to Mick Delaney than any other player on that damn team right now. It's laughable to me that so many people try to use JJ as a reason TO git rid of Delaney, when it's the exact opposite. JJ is the LAST person who would want to see MD go.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

Well, looking ahead, who is a good HC candidate from outside the MT gene pool?

I've seen Dan Hawkins name thrown around a few times. Is he damaged goods or what? He probably deserves another chance, no?

 

[griz4life]

I think letters of intent are with the school, not the recruiting coordinator. The head coach had been fired and yet UM didn't lose a single recruit. Are you suggesting Scott Gragg's departure would have been more significant, Havre?

 

[mtgrizrule]

Well, looking ahead, who is a good HC candidate from outside the MT gene pool?

I've seen Dan Hawkins name thrown around a few times. Is he damaged goods or what? He probably deserves another chance, no?

Hawkins is pretty polarizing. I was not a fan of his when I live in Denver, while he coached the Buffs.

 

[Copper Griz]

Man, it really sucks when we are essentially talking about three years out. A new coach is going to take a year minimum to implement his system. Likely we are talking four to five years out. We should start a move up thread.

 

[griz5700]

Griz4life, Uhh, well, just because those kids signed a LOI doesn't mean they would have showed up had the dude who sat in most of their living rooms been fired. Do you honestly believe that one MONTH after signing day, had the Montana football team had NO COACHING STAFF, that the roster would look the same right now??? I sure as hell don't. Of course, there's no way to prove that. But I feel pretty certain there would have been some important kids from that class that would not be here right now, had the entire UM coaching staff been purged with Pflu.

And I hate name-dropping on this board, but I'm gonna' tell you guys that think Delaney should have been let go at some point, or even after the CC game, Jordan Johnson is probably more loyal to Mick Delaney than any other player on that damn team right now. It's laughable to me that so many people try to use JJ as a reason TO git rid of Delaney, when it's the exact opposite. JJ is the LAST person who would want to see MD go.

Yep, it would have sucked. Losing key players would have sucked but that is what happens when major change takes place. The overall long-term well being of the program trumps any one coach, player, or season. 2012 would have been the perfect season to go through this change. 5-6 right? Yeah awesome season.

But no, here we are 3 years later with a lot of uncertainty still surrounding the program.


Sent from my Z10

 

[CV Griz Fan]

Well, looking ahead, who is a good HC candidate from outside the MT gene pool?

I've seen Dan Hawkins name thrown around a few times. Is he damaged goods or what? He probably deserves another chance, no?

Hawkins is pretty polarizing. I was not a fan of his when I live in Denver, while he coached the Buffs.

His sons are grown up so that won't cloud his judgement anymore. AG1 should like him cause Dan doesn't care about the player's parents and their complaints. Other than the salary, he might be a good fit with the Griz.

 

[BWahlberg]

sorta like the beltway in politics, a clubby inborn group that looks out for itself rather than the best interests of the football program and the fans, with its own shills to tell us that today is okay and tomorrow will be better.

wahlberg: i dearly love this guy, and what he's done for the football program. i relish his reports, passion and knowledge, and wish the basketball program had a wahlberg. but given his status and connections within the program, does he have what it takes to see that this program as now consititued cannot vie for a national championship, and to make the critical judgments to get us back to elite status?

always for the "good guys," but not for the "best guys."

Some good points and I appreciate the comments. I wish I could cover hoops as much as I cover football but the timing is difficult.

Do I "have what it takes to see that this program... cannot vie for a national championship and make critical judgements to get us back to elite status.

As always, I am the observer. I watch and I report. I share my thoughts and I try to over-translate stats. I am the ever voice of optimism.

I'll let you guys judge and cut down the players and coaches as I do not believe I'm qualified to do that. There's much better minds than mine that are in charge of that. Leave me out of that realm.

 

[GrizRanger]

Is there any point in debating who should head the Griz football program when such decisions are in the hand of a University president who could care less about football, and worse yet, likely does not want a dominant football program at UM.

 

[ranco]

You point out your issues, but offer no solution.

FTC

Here, I will spell it out for you since you cant grasp simplicity.

Hire outside of the program.


If you still need help understanding this..............I give up and am at a loss.

Oh, hire someone like Tim Hauck. Gotcha.

Hire anyone but Tim Hauck or anyone else related to the program.

New blood, new ideas and new life.

Its kind of amazing there are not more of you on the Delaney bandwagon when you enjoy pounding the same play over and over and expecting different results.

Same goes for the coaching hires since Glenn. If you like sliding back to Big Sky teams like EWU, MSU and UND then by all means keep doing what you are doing, if you like teams that cant finish, then by all means keep hitting the feeder bar. :roll:

Thanks again for the entertainment. This post is as laughable as that one when you said you would never post again. Keep up the good work.

 

[stubbins]

First, when Pflu was fired, MD wasn't on the staff, he had retired, so sorry, he couldn't have been fired with the rest of the staff. Second, Scott Gragg was the recruiting Co. at the time, it would have been a disaster to let him go, and if the whole staff would have been fired, I would bet a million dollars JJ, and a great number of other players would have bounced too.

Secondly, Joe Glenn was a neoptism hire too.

Couldn't have been a worse disaster than he already created by the first two firings...

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

sorta like the beltway in politics, a clubby inborn group that looks out for itself rather than the best interests of the football program and the fans, with its own shills to tell us that today is okay and tomorrow will be better.

engstrom: it all starts at the top. a nationwide search for a president and all they could find was a provost down the hall. some search! when the decisions were made to fire o'day and pflugrad, i figured there was a lot i didn't know, other shoes to drop. these months later, i still don't understand that decision--one hugely detrimental to the football program. the first rule of decison-making is, consider the consequences. i don't think engstrom ever did.

delaney: nice montana-bred guy that was hired as a running backs coach but nobody ever thought was head-coaching material. kudos to him for steering the program through troubled times, but i don't think there's anybody on this board except the most maroon of shills that thinks he's the one to return us to national prominence.

scott gragg: next head coach? great montana pedigree, maybe the best player montana has turned out in a quarter of a century. but does that qualify you to be a head coach?

player rep: loves being the ivy-educated insider from his ivory-tower box. in washington, he'd be a lobbyist, available to the highest bidder. in montana, he's just the first-line critic of any critic, always defending the status quo, the shill of shills.

wahlberg: i dearly love this guy, and what he's done for the football program. i relish his reports, passion and knowledge, and wish the basketball program had a wahlberg. but given his status and connections within the program, does he have what it takes to see that this program as now consititued cannot vie for a national championship, and to make the critical judgments to get us back to elite status?

mick: great voice, good technique, but the homer of homers. like so many associated with the montana football program, he exemplifies our current malaise:

always for the "good guys," but not for the "best guys."

Citay - totally agree on the coaching thing, but everybody seems to think it's "okay." Funny story though, the last 2 times the Griz have hired a football coach away from the inner circle of Montana brothers?...national championships with Don Read and Joe Glenn.

 

[griz4life]

Is there any point in debating who should head the Griz football program when such decisions are in the hand of a University president who could care less about football, and worse yet, likely does not want a dominant football program at UM.

I don't know Engstrom could care less, or if he just doesn't get it. Jim O'Day used to talk about this disconnect between the administration and the realities of the athletic department. There was this presumption that somehow athletics could always churn up more ticket revenue, always shake the booster money tree to cover its costs. I always thought the disconnect included more things than just the revenue picture.
I'm not sure anyone in Main Hall realizes what it takes to build and maintain a successful football program, not a team, a program. What Montana did, and I do mean did, for 20 years was remarkable, both in the thought UM put behind selecting its coaches, and also the way it boosted sponsorship, expanded facilities without going into debt, grew its fanbase in a state so big it really is asking something of people to travel hundreds of miles to see your team every home game. Even the televised games egrizzers criticize are a remarkable accomplishment. There are PAC 12 teams that still don't get live coverage of their games in their home state. Montana has pretty much had that for 14 years.

Now UM is nearly two years out from firing hits AD and head coach in the middle of spring practice. UM went from semi finalist to its first losing record in damn near 30 years. It didn't make a purposeful hire in 2012, but rather scrambled to find a coach who could be on the job ready to go by the time the team returned from spring break to finish its spring practice minus an innocent young man the administration was doing all it could to drum out of school.
The facilities upgrades that used to progress fairly easily have become much more difficult. Somwehere, I still have the email Engstrom issued to GSA members in the spring of 2012 that the study center was on track and construction was going to begin later that year. Guess it wasn't as easy as shaking the booster money tree after all.
We're due for an increase in ticket prices in 2014. Sounds like the sideline sections without chair backs will be getting them next year and the buy in to sit there will increase significantly. Are fans ready for that, or is this an example of the administration assuming Griz fans will pony up and show up no matter what?
The administration, it seems gets kind of caught up in this notion that Griz football is unsinkable. It's kind of like fans who believe that somehow crowd noise is responsible for Griz victories at home, rather than Griz home victories being responsible for the crowd noise. In fact, in the biggest games this year, UM was very much urging fans days in advance to show up and bring the noise. Turns out it was just that, noise. Coastal Carolina could have cared less. Eastern didn't give a rip and John Blanchette pretty much ridiculed UM for becoming a parody of itself with all its crowd nonsense and all the other smoke and mirrors that now come with Griz football, but do nothing to improve the actual performance.
Will the next Griz football hire be a nepotism hire? Probably. That's not all that unusual in college athletics. You turn to the people you know or the people who know people and they tend to draw a pretty tight circle. So if the next head coach is a Scott Gragg or some coordinator from another FCS school who also happens to have ties to UM and the new AD, don't be surprised. It's always safer to go with what you know, especially when the people advising your are also comfortable with the choice. Before that happens, the administration and its new AD may have to retrace some steps to get pack to program building instead of assuming Griz football is unsinkable.

 

[SaskGriz]

Well, looking ahead, who is a good HC candidate from outside the MT gene pool?

I've seen Dan Hawkins name thrown around a few times. Is he damaged goods or what? He probably deserves another chance, no?

Well he certainly isn't exhausted after only coaching five games in the CFL for getting himself fired. In Montreal they say he was too rah-rah for the pro game and was looking to dictate a new language on a veteran team who had been successful. Those are probably qualities that made him a good college coach though.

 

[griz4life]

Don't Montreal's problems run a little deeper than Hawkins, Sask?

 

[George Ferguson]

griz4life, You didn't say just coach Gragg, you said "the entire staff should have been fired", so I'm saying yes, I firmly believe that with Montana having NO football coaches of any kind a month after signing day, there would have been signees and current players jumping ship. And after signing day, where you gonna' get the players to fill those gaps? Anyway, it's a stupid argument, as it didn't happen and I'm damn happy with the players that are here now in that class.

This whole coaching change talk is stupid, at least for now. MD is coming back next year. You guys who don't want him are just being eaten alive by the fact that you have NO SAY in it. YOU have NO POWER or control over this football program, and it drives a minute portion of you nutts. All you have is Egriz to vent, or to stop being a fan. Stop giving the UM your money for tickets, donations or whatever. Those are the only two things that are in your control when it comes to Montana football.

Also, To whoever said Joe Glenn was plucked out of a non-Montana circle, maybe try your history a little bit. Glenn coached at Montana BEFORE, he was brought back to be the head coach.

 

[griz4life]

No, Havre. I didn't say Montana should have fired its entire staff. Didn't say it. Don't know what you're talking about.