No one knows where people are getting infected

[PlayerRep]

What the what? The point of masks is you could have the virus and not know it, and be spreading it to others. It's really not that hard to understand.

exactly. countries where everyone wore a mask haven't been hit nearly as bad. the main idea, obviously, is to stop people from spreading, but there is some protection from wearing them. every hospital and doctor's office will require you to wear one when you go there, and every person working there will wear one. i'm a scientist myself, and it's such a common sense thing it baffles me how people want to work so hard to deny they work. we got some the day after wuhan shut down, because we know people in china, and the info coming from them was that it was a lot worse than the ccp was saying. even if you doubt it, shouldn't you wear one at least when you are in public, in case you are wrong?

I agree. And I know you were a proponent of masks right away. I also wondered about masks, bought some early, and never wore those. My experience with masks comes from having been in Hong Kong right after the big WHO announcement on SAR's in Hong Kong in 2002, and later trips to Asia, where lots of people wear masks in public.

My buddy makes very nice and good reusable N95 masks, which all of my greater family uses, especially for things like plane trips. He's been making them the last handful of years for the southeastern Asia market and how has upgraded them for the US market. He has had a non-profit in Viet Nam for a couple decades. Expensive, washable, extra and changeable filters, comfortable, good straps around the back of head (not ears), nothing touches the nose or mouth, can be worn long periods without touching the face or adjusting the front.

https://makanausa.com/

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/us-ski--snowboard-athletes-breathe-safely-with-makana-masks-301190710.html

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/pitt-football-to-wear-makana-masks-during-air-travel-this-season-301150463.html

 

[Hoops watcher]

"Science" maybe doesn't know right from the beginning, but it ought not to miss by orders of magnitude. At the beginning of this, "science" and modeling was predicting millions of deaths in America by this point. Now obviously 300,000+ deaths is meaningful, but might different decisions have been made if we'd have know they were off by an order of magnitude? THAT is how you end up with a pandemic when one really wasn't necessary.

And there IS no reason to be walking around with a mask if you're not sick or your asymptomatic. Until we as Americans decide to take back our country we will continue to sink further and further down this hellhole until there will be no turning back.

What the what? The point of masks is you could have the virus and not know it, and be spreading it to others. It's really not that hard to understand.

Not really. Not infowars.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2774102
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w

 

[Cuervohola]

Now they are saying Asymptomatic people don't spread it. On the same link, they are saying they do. Agenda driven.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=covid+not+asymptomatic&df=w&ia=web

Real credible source you've got there. Couldn't find anything on InfoWars?

I'll let you go ahead and think about that doozie.

 

[AZGrizFan]

What the what? The point of masks is you could have the virus and not know it, and be spreading it to others. It's really not that hard to understand.

If that's the case, you should wear a mask every day forever to protect others from everything. You might have something and not know it and spread it to others, right?

right? I mean, how many people have you killed by unknowingly spreading the flu all these years, Htown?

 

[AZGrizFan]

What the what? The point of masks is you could have the virus and not know it, and be spreading it to others. It's really not that hard to understand.

exactly. countries where everyone wore a mask haven't been hit nearly as bad. the main idea, obviously, is to stop people from spreading, but there is some protection from wearing them. every hospital and doctor's office will require you to wear one when you go there, and every person working there will wear one. i'm a scientist myself, and it's such a common sense thing it baffles me how people want to work so hard to deny they work. we got some the day after wuhan shut down, because we know people in china, and the info coming from them was that it was a lot worse than the ccp was saying. even if you doubt it, shouldn't you wear one at least when you are in public, in case you are wrong? also, to change the subject a little, fauci told a bald-faced lie, and admitted it. a respectable human being would have told the truth, and explained the situation. that is my view, anyway.

and Asian countries where a large percent of the population have ALWAYS worn masks, and who were the bastion of success early on, are now getting HAMMERED. And please don't use China as an example. Believing ANYTHING that comes out of a totalitarian regime makes your entire argument moot.

BTW, I agree with you about Fauci. And the whole lot of 'em, honestly. This thing was politicized and weaponized from the very beginning, making NO ONE trust what anybody in government says. In fact, when any government official or quasi-gov't official (like Fauci) makes a statement now, I just assume the opposite is probably true.

 

[PlayerRep]

"Covid-19 Was Consuming India, Until Nearly Everyone Started Wearing Masks

One of the world’s most boisterous and diverse democracies has embraced a proven pandemic strategy with little debate"

"NEW DELHI—In September, India was reporting almost 100,000 Covid-19 cases a day, with many predicting it would soon pass the U.S. in overall cases. Instead, its infections dropped and are now at one-fourth that level.

India has brought down its virus numbers, despite often being too crowded for social distancing, having too many cases for effective contact tracing and an economy that isn’t well equipped to weather long lockdowns.

One of the main reasons, Indian health officials say, is that the country has managed to encourage and enforce almost universal acceptance of masks without much debate.

From the moment the pandemic landed in this South Asian nation, politicians and health experts have been united about the importance of masks, including Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

“Until you have a vaccine, you have a social vaccine, and the social vaccine is the mask,” said Health Minister Harsh Vardhan, pointing to his mask and repeating the mantra he uses in speeches addressing the nation.

While there has been continuing debate about whether governments and businesses can force people to use masks in the U.S. and elsewhere, they are widely understood to slow the spread of all sorts of diseases. A study of coronavirus cases in German regions that made masks mandatory earlier than others found masks reduced the number of new Covid-19 infections by 45%.

“As economic costs are close to zero compared to other public health measures, masks seem to be a cost-effective means to combat Covid-19,” said the report published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences this month."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-was-consuming-india-until-nearly-everyone-started-wearing-masks-11609329603?mod=djem10point

 

[MikeyGriz]

"Covid-19 Was Consuming India, Until Nearly Everyone Started Wearing Masks

One of the world’s most boisterous and diverse democracies has embraced a proven pandemic strategy with little debate"

"NEW DELHI—In September, India was reporting almost 100,000 Covid-19 cases a day, with many predicting it would soon pass the U.S. in overall cases. Instead, its infections dropped and are now at one-fourth that level.

India has brought down its virus numbers, despite often being too crowded for social distancing, having too many cases for effective contact tracing and an economy that isn’t well equipped to weather long lockdowns.

One of the main reasons, Indian health officials say, is that the country has managed to encourage and enforce almost universal acceptance of masks without much debate.

From the moment the pandemic landed in this South Asian nation, politicians and health experts have been united about the importance of masks, including Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

“Until you have a vaccine, you have a social vaccine, and the social vaccine is the mask,” said Health Minister Harsh Vardhan, pointing to his mask and repeating the mantra he uses in speeches addressing the nation.

While there has been continuing debate about whether governments and businesses can force people to use masks in the U.S. and elsewhere, they are widely understood to slow the spread of all sorts of diseases. A study of coronavirus cases in German regions that made masks mandatory earlier than others found masks reduced the number of new Covid-19 infections by 45%.

“As economic costs are close to zero compared to other public health measures, masks seem to be a cost-effective means to combat Covid-19,” said the report published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences this month."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-was-consuming-india-until-nearly-everyone-started-wearing-masks-11609329603?mod=djem10point

Do they have a mask standard? I see masks here that range from N95 to sheer nothingness! Not all masks are created equal, nor offer the same level of protection. I think some of the masks I see are just token adhearance.

 

[Htowngriz]

Real credible source you've got there. Couldn't find anything on InfoWars?

I'll let you go ahead and think about that doozie.

From your own search results.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/dec/28/facebook-posts/no-recent-study-didnt-find-no-asymptomatic-spread-/

 

[tourist]

and Asian countries where a large percent of the population have ALWAYS worn masks, and who were the bastion of success early on, are now getting HAMMERED. And please don't use China as an example. Believing ANYTHING that comes out of a totalitarian regime makes your entire argument moot.

China has a Social Credit System. Read on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System

 

[Cuervohola]

I'll let you go ahead and think about that doozie.

From your own search results.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/dec/28/facebook-posts/no-recent-study-didnt-find-no-asymptomatic-spread-/

Yes. What did I say in my first post?

"Now they are saying Asymptomatic people don't spread it. On the same link, they are saying they do. Agenda driven."

 

[PlayerRep]

25 DAYS THAT CHANGED THE WORLD: HOW COVID-19 SLIPPED CHINA’S GRASP"

"China’s official history now portrays Dr. Zhong’s trip as the cinematic turning point in an ultimately triumphant war against Covid-19, when he discovered the virus was spreading dangerously and sped to Beijing to sound the alarm. Four days later, on Jan. 23, China’s leader, Xi Jinping, sealed off Wuhan.

That lockdown was the first decisive step in saving China. But in a pandemic that has since claimed more than 1.7 million lives, it came too late to prevent the virus from spilling into the rest of the world.

The first alarm had actually sounded 25 days earlier, exactly a year ago, last Dec. 30. Even before then, Chinese doctors and scientists had been pushing for answers, yet officials in Wuhan and Beijing concealed the extent of infections or refused to act on warnings.

China’s delayed initial response unleashed the virus on the world and foreshadowed battles between scientists and political leaders over transparency, public health and economics that would play out across continents.

Chinese scientists and private laboratories identified the coronavirus and mapped its genes weeks before Beijing acknowledged the severity of the problem. Scientists were talking to their peers, trying to raise alarms — and in some cases, they did, if at a price.

“We also spoke the truth,” said Prof. Zhang Yongzhen, a leading virologist in Shanghai. “But nobody listened to us, and that’s really tragic.”

China’s reluctance to be transparent about those initial weeks has also left gaping holes in what the world knows about the coronavirus. Scientists have little insight into where and how the virus emerged, in part because Beijing has delayed an independent investigation into the animal origins of the outbreak.

Vision Medicals sent its data to the Chinese Academy of Medical Science in Beijing and dispatched a top executive to warn the Wuhan Health Commission.

The Beijing team that arrived in Wuhan on the last day of 2019 was quickly informed about the laboratory results, Dr. Cao Bin, a member of the team, told a Chinese newspaper.

At that point, the Wuhan government had publicly confirmed that city hospitals were dealing with an unusual pneumonia but denied it was potentially contagious.

At the same time, the National Health Commission told the commercial labs to destroy or hand over samples with the virus, and ordered that research findings be published only after official approval. The head of the Guangdong Health Commission, under orders from Beijing, led a team to Vision Medicals to seize its sample.

But now, on Jan. 8, Dr. Gao was agitated, according to two people familiar with Dr. Redfield’s account of the call. The virus had infected medical workers, Dr. Gao said, and was jumping between humans, despite the denials by local officials.

Despite the restrictions, scientists kept talking across borders. Prof. Stanley Perlman texted a Chinese colleague on Jan. 4 about rumors of a new coronavirus, and was swiftly told to switch to an encrypted phone app."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/30/world/asia/china-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

[argh!]

exactly. countries where everyone wore a mask haven't been hit nearly as bad. the main idea, obviously, is to stop people from spreading, but there is some protection from wearing them. every hospital and doctor's office will require you to wear one when you go there, and every person working there will wear one. i'm a scientist myself, and it's such a common sense thing it baffles me how people want to work so hard to deny they work. we got some the day after wuhan shut down, because we know people in china, and the info coming from them was that it was a lot worse than the ccp was saying. even if you doubt it, shouldn't you wear one at least when you are in public, in case you are wrong? also, to change the subject a little, fauci told a bald-faced lie, and admitted it. a respectable human being would have told the truth, and explained the situation. that is my view, anyway.

and Asian countries where a large percent of the population have ALWAYS worn masks, and who were the bastion of success early on, are now getting HAMMERED. And please don't use China as an example. Believing ANYTHING that comes out of a totalitarian regime makes your entire argument moot.

BTW, I agree with you about Fauci. And the whole lot of 'em, honestly. This thing was politicized and weaponized from the very beginning, making NO ONE trust what anybody in government says. In fact, when any government official or quasi-gov't official (like Fauci) makes a statement now, I just assume the opposite is probably true.

which asian countries are being "hammered"? taiwan is doing ok, and have just banned all non-resident foreigners from visiting, again. vietnam is doing ok, thailand is doing ok. if you've read anything i've written about china, you would know that i don't trust anything coming out of their propaganda department, which is the only 'news' anyone gets about the place, unless you have connections there. hong kong is freaking out, but they are still reporting less than 100 cases a day (maybe the ccp has something to do with that, but i doubt it, for this particular issue). japan has an increase, and from what i saw has the worst increase, and are up to almost 3,000 a day. if the u.s. had the same rate per population, that'd be less than 9,000 cases a day, instead of 90,000. south korea reports it is getting his badly, but by population they are still less than japan. you just think everyone will just mindlessly agree with your statement, but i don't think it is true.

 

[AZGrizFan]

and Asian countries where a large percent of the population have ALWAYS worn masks, and who were the bastion of success early on, are now getting HAMMERED. And please don't use China as an example. Believing ANYTHING that comes out of a totalitarian regime makes your entire argument moot.

BTW, I agree with you about Fauci. And the whole lot of 'em, honestly. This thing was politicized and weaponized from the very beginning, making NO ONE trust what anybody in government says. In fact, when any government official or quasi-gov't official (like Fauci) makes a statement now, I just assume the opposite is probably true.

which asian countries are being "hammered"? taiwan is doing ok, and have just banned all non-resident foreigners from visiting, again. vietnam is doing ok, thailand is doing ok. if you've read anything i've written about china, you would know that i don't trust anything coming out of their propaganda department, which is the only 'news' anyone gets about the place, unless you have connections there. hong kong is freaking out, but they are still reporting less than 100 cases a day (maybe the ccp has something to do with that, but i doubt it, for this particular issue). japan has an increase, and from what i saw has the worst increase, and are up to almost 3,000 a day. if the u.s. had the same rate per population, that'd be less than 9,000 cases a day, instead of 90,000. south korea reports it is getting his badly, but by population they are still less than japan. you just think everyone will just mindlessly agree with your statement, but i don't think it is true.

Japan and SK are both way up. They were lauded as the example for all to follow....turns out they’re just another example in a long line of examples that prove “virus gonna virus”.

 

[argh!]

which asian countries are being "hammered"? taiwan is doing ok, and have just banned all non-resident foreigners from visiting, again. vietnam is doing ok, thailand is doing ok. if you've read anything i've written about china, you would know that i don't trust anything coming out of their propaganda department, which is the only 'news' anyone gets about the place, unless you have connections there. hong kong is freaking out, but they are still reporting less than 100 cases a day (maybe the ccp has something to do with that, but i doubt it, for this particular issue). japan has an increase, and from what i saw has the worst increase, and are up to almost 3,000 a day. if the u.s. had the same rate per population, that'd be less than 9,000 cases a day, instead of 90,000. south korea reports it is getting his badly, but by population they are still less than japan. you just think everyone will just mindlessly agree with your statement, but i don't think it is true.

Japan and SK are both way up. They were lauded as the example for all to follow....turns out they’re just another example in a long line of examples that prove “virus gonna virus”.

relative to their previous rates, they are 'way up'; japan had 3,846 new cases yesterday, in a population of 125+ million. south korea had about 1,000 cases in a population of about 52 million. the u.s. had 201,000 cases in a population of about 328 million. the difference per population is absurdly large. so japan is about 4 out of every 125,000, south korea is about 2.3 out of every 125,000, and the u.s. is about 180 out of every 125,000. my numbers are just rough calculations, done off the top of my head. but they aren't way, way off, and... you won't see the point because you are a trumper.

 

[PlayerRep]

"The Year in Covid ‘Messaging’"

"Dr. Fauci’s early pooh-poohing of masks to preserve supply for medical personnel at least was defensible for the larger good. Not until summer did he admit the test-and-trace miracle cure was no such thing given the realities of asymptomatic spread. To this day, test-and-trace serves as the magic X in every pundit piece, allowing the author to claim that our failing mommy and daddy (a k a government) let us down by not enacting this simple solution.

Of course it’s gibberish: 40% of Covid cases are asymptomatic; 80% of symptomatic cases are mild and indistinguishable from cold or flu so the sufferer has little reason to seek testing. Our borders are porous. So far we have tested only about 80% of Americans even once. We’d have to test 330 million every few days to catch a useful percentage of Covid cases while they’re still infectious. Add contact tracing and the numbers are clearly impossible. But because the strategy was useful in a South Korean context our politicians go through the motions here.

Another messaging snafu poked through last summer. CDC’s Robert Redfield admitted our testing might be catching only 10% of cases—i.e., the circus that fills hours of media airtime is doing nothing to control the epidemOfficial lying about things large and small has been a staple of Covid politics: the letters to college students threatening them with arrest if they don’t quarantine, the interstate travel “bans” that were never enforced, the death counts that swept up anybody who died of any cause while infected with Covid.ic or even measure it.


Arguably, it began on day one. I don’t go to the doctor for a cold or flu, and neither do 80% to 95% of you. This has implications: Once Wuhan hospitals were besieged with severe cases, it was a waste of time asking ourselves if the virus was here. It was here. The blocked flights, the testing of recent arrivals were so much hand-waving so our government could be seen doing something.

The mummery has served to swathe and dilute a message that politicians were unhappy to deliver: It would be up to us citizens to control Covid the best we can.

Lockdowns are imagined to be a kind of enforced social distancing. They aren’t. Mandatory business closures don’t stop people from spreading the disease. Letting businesses stay open doesn’t force them to spread the disease.

People spread the disease by their own decisions, moment by moment, about when, where and how to expose themselves to risk.

No messaging strategy was more ill-judged than the one our politicians selected for a vaccine, deciding that nothing was more important than signaling that no corners were being cut.

Indisputable now is that we should have junked the normal process and accepted more vaccine risk in return for the prospective benefit of saving thousands of lives and trillions of dollars in lost wages in 2020."

[Astra Zeneca and the other 2 vaccines should be approved now. People are dying. Those vaccines are known to be safe in their phase 2 trials. There aren't enough doses from the first 2. AZ has lots of doses ready. Assume Johnson & Johnson does too. ]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-year-in-covid-messaging-11609537367?mod=hp_opin_pos_2

 

[AZGrizFan]

Japan and SK are both way up. They were lauded as the example for all to follow....turns out they’re just another example in a long line of examples that prove “virus gonna virus”.

relative to their previous rates, they are 'way up'; japan had 3,846 new cases yesterday, in a population of 125+ million. south korea had about 1,000 cases in a population of about 52 million. the u.s. had 201,000 cases in a population of about 328 million. the difference per population is absurdly large. so japan is about 4 out of every 125,000, south korea is about 2.3 out of every 125,000, and the u.s. is about 180 out of every 125,000. my numbers are just rough calculations, done off the top of my head. but they aren't way, way off, and... you won't see the point because you are a trumper.

Lol. This has nothing to do with Trump.

 

[ilovethecats]

If that's the case, you should wear a mask every day forever to protect others from everything. You might have something and not know it and spread it to others, right?

right? I mean, how many people have you killed by unknowingly spreading the flu all these years, Htown?

I’ve been saying this since March. It’s not whether or not masks can prevent deaths right now. They will. Just like they’ll prevent deaths every single year if all people always wore them. Are all the people preaching so hard about masks now willing to wear them every day for the rest of their lives? Commendable if you are, but I’m willing to bet my house that after the worst of this virus has run its course, even the loudest of mask advocates will no longer wear them. Despite the fact that doing so would save lives.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

[AZGrizFan]

right? I mean, how many people have you killed by unknowingly spreading the flu all these years, Htown?

I’ve been saying this since March. It’s not whether or not masks can prevent deaths right now. They will. Just like they’ll prevent deaths every single year if all people always wore them. Are all the people preaching so hard about masks now willing to wear them every day for the rest of their lives? Commendable if you are, but I’m willing to bet my house that after the worst of this virus has run its course, even the loudest of mask advocates will no longer wear them. Despite the fact that doing so would save lives.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

And I believe just the opposite. They’ve come to realize that they can wield fear as a virtue. And this newfound power to control other people has and will go to their heads....I believe masks are here to stay, sadly.

 

[argh!]

relative to their previous rates, they are 'way up'; japan had 3,846 new cases yesterday, in a population of 125+ million. south korea had about 1,000 cases in a population of about 52 million. the u.s. had 201,000 cases in a population of about 328 million. the difference per population is absurdly large. so japan is about 4 out of every 125,000, south korea is about 2.3 out of every 125,000, and the u.s. is about 180 out of every 125,000. my numbers are just rough calculations, done off the top of my head. but they aren't way, way off, and... you won't see the point because you are a trumper.

Lol. This has nothing to do with Trump.

yes it does. if he had pushed for people to wear masks, you would have worn them. that is because trump supporters are very predictable.

 

[argh!]

I’ve been saying this since March. It’s not whether or not masks can prevent deaths right now. They will. Just like they’ll prevent deaths every single year if all people always wore them. Are all the people preaching so hard about masks now willing to wear them every day for the rest of their lives? Commendable if you are, but I’m willing to bet my house that after the worst of this virus has run its course, even the loudest of mask advocates will no longer wear them. Despite the fact that doing so would save lives.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

And I believe just the opposite. They’ve come to realize that they can wield fear as a virtue. And this newfound power to control other people has and will go to their heads....I believe masks are here to stay, sadly.

as soon as i get vaccinated, the mask comes off. our immune systems need to have challenges sometimes. if they don't have them, auto-immune diseases are more likely. i wouldn't say it is a scientifically proven fact, but the evidence, based on careful research (well, as careful as you can do), is that societies that over-sanitize and encounter few germs, have significantly more auto-immune issues, i.e. inflammatory bowel disease, etc...