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Mr. Wahlberg goes to Helena UPDATED w/post comments

bigskyguy said:
dsprout said:
bigskyguy said:
GrizRanger said:
Great job Brint! Your efforts are above and beyond the call of duty.

By the way while I am an Independent and refuse to follow a party line, I vote Democrat more then Republican, especially lately since extremists have taken over the Republican Party, but I too am strongly against Pat Williams appointment to the Board of Regents. I have emailed Committee members accordingly. This is not a political issue, it is an issue based on Pat Williams poor choice of words slandering UM students, his poor judgement and his arrogance.

However, like so many matters involving our political system I admit that I am not confident on the outcome on this.
So let me get this right. You oppose PW for Regent but would vote for him for Senator.

Well...As in all elections, I guess that would depend on who he's running against. As for his appointment to the BOR- He doesn't belong- period.

Just pointing out hypocrisy. If he doesn’t belong as a regent, he doesn’t belong or shouldn’t have been a senator. He is still the same man.

The same man may be a great QB but a lousy LB.

The characteristics needed of a career politician and that of a regent are not that compatible. Regents by definition must work together ... not as individuals with there own agendas. For me, that’s the single biggest issue with Pat Williams. Being a career politician Williams has many interest groups that he supports and they in turn support him. Thats what all politicians do. On the other hand a regent should be beholding to one interest and one interest only ... to better the higher education of students. As an interim regent Williams has already proven himself to be out of control ... relative to the role of a regent.
 
narly said:
GrizRanger said:
Great job Brint! Your efforts are above and beyond the call of duty.

By the way while I am an Independent and refuse to follow a party line, I vote Democrat more then Republican, especially lately since extremists have taken over the Republican Party, but I too am strongly against Pat Williams appointment to the Board of Regents. I have emailed Committee members accordingly. This is not a political issue, it is an issue based on Pat Williams poor choice of words slandering UM students, his poor judgement and his arrogance.

However, like so many matters involving our political system I admit that I am not confident on the outcome on this.

And, how's that workin' out for ya? :?


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Lets please not go there!
 
UMAlum said:
bigskyguy said:
dsprout said:
bigskyguy said:
So let me get this right. You oppose PW for Regent but would vote for him for Senator.

Well...As in all elections, I guess that would depend on who he's running against. As for his appointment to the BOR- He doesn't belong- period.

Just pointing out hypocrisy. If he doesn’t belong as a regent, he doesn’t belong or shouldn’t have been a senator. He is still the same man.

The same man may be a great QB but a lousy LB.

The characteristics needed of a career politician and that of a regent are not that compatible. Regents by definition must work together ... not as individuals with there own agendas. For me, that’s the single biggest issue with Pat Williams. Being a career politician Williams has many interest groups that he supports and they in turn support him. Thats what all politicians do. On the other hand a regent should be beholding to one interest and one interest only ... to better the higher education of students. As an interim regent Williams has already proven himself to be out of control ... relative to the role of a regent.


Well said! I hope hope the decision makers understand how true this is!
 
Thanks BW. One of FIVE to voice their opposition. Five. Where were the rest of you? Anyone within a couple hours drive of Helena has no excuse. Keep wondering why your government ain't worth a sh*t. Wait til the vote, then you won't see one democrat voting against that POS. His confirmation shouldn't even get out of committee.
 
Terry Trieweiler (for Supreme Court Justice) puts names to Pat Williams thugs. Pretty scary that this guy was a Supreme Court Justice:

http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/columnists/straight-talk-was-long-overdue/article_b5d50828-92fa-11e2-b491-001a4bcf887a.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Missoula lawyer David Paoli is a friend of mine. So I’m certain he won’t be offended by my opinion of what he characterized as “advice” to Pat Williams printed as a column in Sunday’s (March 17) Missoulian.

Let me preface my remarks by pointing out that I’ve been a college football fan all of my life. Football paid for my college education. And, I’ve been a season-ticket holder to Grizzlies football for many years.

Still, I’ve been mystified by the reaction of many Grizzlies football fans to Williams’ remarks describing too many of the team’s players as “thugs” and his commitment as a regent to end the “thuggery.”

Paoli lambasted Williams’ remarks as “ignorant,” “abusive of his position as a regent” and unfair to Paoli’s client. He threw in a little race-baiting for good measure, even though the term used by Williams is racially neutral and the offenders he referred to were both black and white.

It seems to me, on the other hand, that anyone who doesn’t recognize the problems Williams described wouldn’t be fit to serve as a regent and that the real “ignorance” is demonstrated by attacking the messenger for his unpleasant message.

It might be helpful to review the conduct over the past five years that he accurately characterized as “thuggery.”

It includes a fatal shooting by Jimmy Wilson and his teammate Qwenton Freeman’s refusal to participate in the investigation, even though he witnessed it, following which Wilson was found not guilty and they were welcomed back to the team; Freeman’s numerous convictions for acts of violence and ultimate dismissal from the team; Freeman’s armed burglary with the assistance of several other players; the brutal assaults on another student on campus by two other players; Jermaine Johnson’s and Andrew Swink’s violent assault on another student; Johnson’s and Gerald Kemp’s obstruction of a peace officer; Beau Donaldson’s rape of a female companion; several players’ alleged involvement in a gang rape; the University of Montana president’s admission, following an independent investigation, that a number of players had been involved in sexual assaults; and the recent brutal beating and robbery of a convenience store clerk by a former player with a history of other violent and illegal conduct. Throw in several other violent assaults on women by some of these same players.

During the same period of time, seven players have been arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs – a couple of them repeat offenders.

As a result of this history, the university is being investigated by the NCAA, the Justice Department, and the U.S. Department of Education’s Office of Civil Rights.

If people who kill others, rape others, beat others, and burglarize and rob others aren’t thugs, then what are they? And, how much thuggery does it take before a member of the Board of Regents is free to say we need to do something about it?

While it is true that Paoli’s client was recently acquitted of the charges against him, Paoli takes himself and the acquittal too seriously when he infers that the acquittal of one player vindicates the entire program, or makes Williams’ comments any less true. And the fact that one athlete, or others like him, has good grades and lives with his mother and her cat, doesn’t excuse this pattern of recruitment.

As alarming as this five-year pattern of conduct should be, the greater long-term problem will come from the culture of entitlement that causes players here, and elsewhere, to think they are unaccountable for their conduct because of their athletic ability and the knee-jerk reaction of program supporters, including Paoli, to anyone who questions where and how things might have gone wrong.

There’s no one in the state more qualified to serve on the Board of Regents than Pat Williams. He has spent a lifetime in service to public education and was defending the Constitution, including the rights of the accused, at some political cost, long before most of his detractors took any interest in the criminal justice system. To think his appointment could be derailed over comments that were both honest and long overdue, though, would suggest one miscalculation on Pat Williams’ part – his belief that most Montanans appreciate “straight talk.”

Terry N. Trieweiler is a retired Montana Supreme Court justice and writes from Whitefish.
 
These are Treiweiler's examples of "thuggery:

It might be helpful to review the conduct over the past five years that he accurately characterized as “thuggery.”

It includes a fatal shooting by Jimmy Wilson and his teammate Qwenton Freeman’s refusal to participate in the investigation, even though he witnessed it, following which Wilson was found not guilty and they were welcomed back to the team; Freeman’s numerous convictions for acts of violence and ultimate dismissal from the team; Freeman’s armed burglary with the assistance of several other players; the brutal assaults on another student on campus by two other players; Jermaine Johnson’s and Andrew Swink’s violent assault on another student; Johnson’s and Gerald Kemp’s obstruction of a peace officer; Beau Donaldson’s rape of a female companion; several players’ alleged involvement in a gang rape; the University of Montana president’s admission, following an independent investigation, that a number of players had been involved in sexual assaults; and the recent brutal beating and robbery of a convenience store clerk by a former player with a history of other violent and illegal conduct. Throw in several other violent assaults on women by some of these same players.


And then he goes on to conclude:

And the fact that one athlete, or others like him, has good grades and lives with his mother and her cat, doesn’t excuse this pattern of recruitment.

Wow.

Tell me, Terry, what exactly did we miss in our recruiting? What would we have learned if we had gathered all the information that was available to us?

And who the f..(k) is "Jermaine Johnson?"
 
AllWeatherFan said:
These are Treiweiler's examples of "thuggery:

It might be helpful to review the conduct over the past five years that he accurately characterized as “thuggery.”

It includes a fatal shooting by Jimmy Wilson and his teammate Qwenton Freeman’s refusal to participate in the investigation, even though he witnessed it, following which Wilson was found not guilty and they were welcomed back to the team; Freeman’s numerous convictions for acts of violence and ultimate dismissal from the team; Freeman’s armed burglary with the assistance of several other players; the brutal assaults on another student on campus by two other players; Jermaine Johnson’s and Andrew Swink’s violent assault on another student; Johnson’s and Gerald Kemp’s obstruction of a peace officer; Beau Donaldson’s rape of a female companion; several players’ alleged involvement in a gang rape; the University of Montana president’s admission, following an independent investigation, that a number of players had been involved in sexual assaults; and the recent brutal beating and robbery of a convenience store clerk by a former player with a history of other violent and illegal conduct. Throw in several other violent assaults on women by some of these same players.


And then he goes on to conclude:

And the fact that one athlete, or others like him, has good grades and lives with his mother and her cat, doesn’t excuse this pattern of recruitment.

Wow.

Tell me, Terry, what exactly did we miss in our recruiting? What would we have learned if we had gathered all the information that was available to us?

And who the f..(k) is "Jermaine Johnson?"
Yeah, that sounds like he called all but one player or recruit a thug with that comment. He also had to mention the gang rape, which was a false accusation, and kind of whitewashed the fact that JJ was aquitted. I wonder if he wrote his court decisions this way.
 
JBS said:
AllWeatherFan said:
These are Treiweiler's examples of "thuggery:

It might be helpful to review the conduct over the past five years that he accurately characterized as “thuggery.”

It includes a fatal shooting by Jimmy Wilson and his teammate Qwenton Freeman’s refusal to participate in the investigation, even though he witnessed it, following which Wilson was found not guilty and they were welcomed back to the team; Freeman’s numerous convictions for acts of violence and ultimate dismissal from the team; Freeman’s armed burglary with the assistance of several other players; the brutal assaults on another student on campus by two other players; Jermaine Johnson’s and Andrew Swink’s violent assault on another student; Johnson’s and Gerald Kemp’s obstruction of a peace officer; Beau Donaldson’s rape of a female companion; several players’ alleged involvement in a gang rape; the University of Montana president’s admission, following an independent investigation, that a number of players had been involved in sexual assaults; and the recent brutal beating and robbery of a convenience store clerk by a former player with a history of other violent and illegal conduct. Throw in several other violent assaults on women by some of these same players.


And then he goes on to conclude:

And the fact that one athlete, or others like him, has good grades and lives with his mother and her cat, doesn’t excuse this pattern of recruitment.

Wow.

Tell me, Terry, what exactly did we miss in our recruiting? What would we have learned if we had gathered all the information that was available to us?

And who the f..(k) is "Jermaine Johnson?"
Yeah, that sounds like he called all but one player or recruit a thug with that comment. He also had to mention the gang rape, which was a false accusation, and kind of whitewashed the fact that JJ was aquitted. I wonder if he wrote his court decisions this way.

You nailled it JBS. The gang rape comment jumped out at me too. You would think a former Supreme Court Justice would know the difference between a criminal conviction and a specious allegation that CONTINUES to be brought forward by people to emphasize and inflate their position on the team. No wonder he supports PW, he just did the same thing.
 
AllWeatherFan said:
These are Treiweiler's examples of "thuggery:

It might be helpful to review the conduct over the past five years that he accurately characterized as “thuggery.”

It includes a fatal shooting by Jimmy Wilson and his teammate Qwenton Freeman’s refusal to participate in the investigation, even though he witnessed it, following which Wilson was found not guilty and they were welcomed back to the team; Freeman’s numerous convictions for acts of violence and ultimate dismissal from the team; Freeman’s armed burglary with the assistance of several other players; the brutal assaults on another student on campus by two other players; Jermaine Johnson’s and Andrew Swink’s violent assault on another student; Johnson’s and Gerald Kemp’s obstruction of a peace officer; Beau Donaldson’s rape of a female companion; several players’ alleged involvement in a gang rape; the University of Montana president’s admission, following an independent investigation, that a number of players had been involved in sexual assaults; and the recent brutal beating and robbery of a convenience store clerk by a former player with a history of other violent and illegal conduct. Throw in several other violent assaults on women by some of these same players.


And then he goes on to conclude:

And the fact that one athlete, or others like him, has good grades and lives with his mother and her cat, doesn’t excuse this pattern of recruitment.

Wow.

Tell me, Terry, what exactly did we miss in our recruiting? What would we have learned if we had gathered all the information that was available to us?

And who the f..(k) is "Jermaine Johnson?"

TT doesn't know what he's talking about on this subject. Wilson was acquitted of murder (12-0 and 11-1), essentially for lack of evidence and self-defense. That's no indication of thuggery. Freeman didn't necessarily witness the Wilson incident. I read that he stayed in the car, and it was dark. If someone is a potential co-conspirator, any lawyer would advice him not to talk to the police. Note that the prosecution never even called him to testify in the trial, which they clearly could have done. Yes, Freeman had other incidents. However, he was acquitted of one, and was actually kicked of the team when he was charged with that, and before the other incidents. Yes, the burglary was bad. Johnson/Swink didn't violently assault another student. This was part of series of skirmishes that night. The kid, who I don't believe was a student at the time, didn't go to the police (presumably because he knew he was partially at fault and he was a stand-up guy). Johnson/Kemp didn't obstruct a police officer. It ended in disorderly conduct. There were actually allegations of police misconduct. Donaldson, correct. Still doesn't mean he was or is a thug. He made a big mistake. The alleged gang rape was never charged, and players ultimately won their honor court hearing 7-0 and were allowed to graduate. There was never a UM admission that a number of players were involved in sexual assaults. The dean and perhaps Engstrom made what turned out to be incorrect statements. The recent beating of the store clerk was not done by a former player with a history of problems. The former player with some problems was minimally involved when he allowed his car to be used, or drove his car, with the cash register to an apartment. What other violent assaults of women involving some of these same players? Maybe Freeman, and I believe Parks may be married to the girlfriend who initially made an allegation.
 
T. Treilweiler is a far left leaning dem. Always was and he was not a respected Judge because of his radical positions.

Thank God TT does not sit near me at any of the home games.

Incorrect information he gives us is another reason he does not do well as an attorney or human.

What is it about these nuts that love Pat Williams just for the sake of politics? All seem lost in the love of thug speak!
 
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