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Move to FBS - Our own study

ronbo said:
The thing about baseball and softball is they are income producing sports. A WAC baseall team could average 2500-3000 attendance. A good womens softball team could also though it might be closer to 1500-2000. These sports would help pay for themselves.

So I pulled up WAC prices for seating that would apply to Osprey field. (Prices go Club Reserved / Adult General Ad / Youth General Ad)

For baseball:

Fresno: $25 / $15 / $8
Nevada: $8 / $6 / $4
Sac St: $5 / $5 / $3
Hawai'i: $8 / $5 / $3
UNMS: $10 / $7 / $3

For softball:

Fresno: $15 / $8 / $5
Nevada: $7 / $7 / $4
Sac St: $5 / $5 / $3
Hawai'i: $8 / $5 / $3
UNMS: $10 / $7 / $3

No clue why Fresno charges so much more...

Also it looks like most teams play roughly a 30 game schedule, regular season & tournament. So say each team averages 15 home games.
 
ronbo said:
The thing about baseball and softball is they are income producing sports. A WAC baseall team could average 2500-3000 attendance. A good womens softball team could also though it might be closer to 1500-2000. These sports would help pay for themselves.

Income producing? In the sense people buy tickets perhaps, but I doubt they are net gains when you factor in all the costs associated. Look at where they would have to travel. What is the cost to use Osprey Field, assuming they woul deven consider it.
 
Grizbacker1 said:
ronbo said:
The thing about baseball and softball is they are income producing sports. A WAC baseall team could average 2500-3000 attendance. A good womens softball team could also though it might be closer to 1500-2000. These sports would help pay for themselves.

Income producing? In the sense people buy tickets perhaps, but I doubt they are net gains when you factor in all the costs associated. Look at where they would have to travel. What is the cost to use Osprey Field, assuming they woul deven consider it.

No they wouldn't 100% support themselves. Like Basketball doesn't. But they would garner enough interest to come in third behind Football and Basketball. The fact that they could pay 60-65% of their expenses makes baseball and softball very attractive compared to sports like golf, tennis, and others that bring in zip revenue.
 
ronbo said:
Grizbacker1 said:
ronbo said:
The thing about baseball and softball is they are income producing sports. A WAC baseall team could average 2500-3000 attendance. A good womens softball team could also though it might be closer to 1500-2000. These sports would help pay for themselves.

Income producing? In the sense people buy tickets perhaps, but I doubt they are net gains when you factor in all the costs associated. Look at where they would have to travel. What is the cost to use Osprey Field, assuming they woul deven consider it.

No they wouldn't 100% support themselves. Like Basketball doesn't. But they would garner enough interest to come in third behind Football and Basketball. The fact that they could pay 60-65% of their expenses makes baseball and softball very attractive compared to sports like golf, tennis, and others that bring in zip revenue.

Good points, but consider this. Golf and Tennis offset expense a ton because they have short seasons, and reduced schedules when compared to baseball and softball, so it may not be near the difference you think. There are less uniforms, only 1 coach, less travel, etc. Just a little food for thought. There are a myriad of things to consider for sure.
 
Re/MaxGriz said:
ronbo said:
The thing about baseball and softball is they are income producing sports. A WAC baseall team could average 2500-3000 attendance. A good womens softball team could also though it might be closer to 1500-2000. These sports would help pay for themselves.

So I pulled up WAC prices for seating that would apply to Osprey field. (Prices go Club Reserved / Adult General Ad / Youth General Ad)

For baseball:

Fresno: $25 / $15 / $8
Nevada: $8 / $6 / $4
Sac St: $5 / $5 / $3
Hawai'i: $8 / $5 / $3
UNMS: $10 / $7 / $3

For softball:

Fresno: $15 / $8 / $5
Nevada: $7 / $7 / $4
Sac St: $5 / $5 / $3
Hawai'i: $8 / $5 / $3
UNMS: $10 / $7 / $3

No clue why Fresno charges so much more...

Also it looks like most teams play roughly a 30 game schedule, regular season & tournament. So say each team averages 15 home games.

I've got some more time now, so lets take the average of the tickets and have UM charge that much:

Men's: $11 / $7 / $4
Women's: $9 / $6 / $3

Lets go with an average attendance of 2500 for the men and 1500 for the women. With 25% buying club reserved, 50% General and 25% buying the youth/general.

So each men's game would average:

625 club reserved * $11 per ticket = $6875
1250 adult gen ad * $7 per ticket = $8750
625 child gen ad * $4 per ticket = $2500

$18125 per game * 15 games = $271,875

Each women's game would average:

375 club reserved * $9 per ticket = $3375
750 adult gen ad * $6 per ticket = $4500
375 child gen ad * $3 per ticket = $1125

$9000 per game * 15 games = $135,000

Of course that doesn't count concession sales, merchandise sales, and any sort of stadium/event sponsorship.
 
Got some more for you Crunch:

New locker rooms:

Auburns new lockers: $2,000,000

http://blog.al.com/goldmine/2008/07/were_back_to_play_our.html

Rose Bowl (holy crap!): $16,000,000

http://www.rosebowlstadium.com/RoseBowl_ITN_082107.htm

Vandy: Rough guess $2,000,000

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/news/releases/2008/5/20/vanderbilt-athletics-announces-facility-upgrade-plan-extensive-five-phase-improvement-project-under-way

Memphis: $3,600,000

http://memtigorg.proboards66.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=uofm&thread=2778&page=1#23901

Southern: $1,500,000

http://www.athleticbusiness.com/articles/article.aspx?articleid=1231&zoneid=16

So take out the Rose Bowl and the average is $2,275,000
 
Re/MaxGriz said:
So I pulled up WAC prices for seating that would apply to Osprey field. (Prices go Club Reserved / Adult General Ad / Youth General Ad)

For baseball:

Fresno: $25 / $15 / $8
Nevada: $8 / $6 / $4
Sac St: $5 / $5 / $3
Hawai'i: $8 / $5 / $3
UNMS: $10 / $7 / $3

For softball:

Fresno: $15 / $8 / $5
Nevada: $7 / $7 / $4
Sac St: $5 / $5 / $3
Hawai'i: $8 / $5 / $3
UNMS: $10 / $7 / $3

No clue why Fresno charges so much more...

Also it looks like most teams play roughly a 30 game schedule, regular season & tournament. So say each team averages 15 home games.

Did you get this from the WAC site or from each individual school site? Don't know who "UNMS" is. Don't know of a "University of New Mexico at Some Town Starting with S." I think you might be looking for NMSU. Could be?

Also, while Sac is in the WAC for baseball and gymnastics, it is NOT for softball. Sac is a proud member of the Pacific Coast Softball Conference.
 
And for weight rooms:

Kansas: $8,000,000

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4179/is_20010821/ai_n11769505

Michigan State: $5,500,000

http://www.thebiggreen.net/article.php?id=949

Washington: $6,000,000 (from bloggers though, maybe not accuraate)

http://gohuskies.cstv.com/chat/112906aaa.html

LSU: $2,500,000 (Added up in tne 2nd floor sumary)

http://www.lsutaf.org/football-opps-center.php

So average of $5,500,000
 
SuperHornet said:
Re/MaxGriz said:
So I pulled up WAC prices for seating that would apply to Osprey field. (Prices go Club Reserved / Adult General Ad / Youth General Ad)

For baseball:

Fresno: $25 / $15 / $8
Nevada: $8 / $6 / $4
Sac St: $5 / $5 / $3
Hawai'i: $8 / $5 / $3
UNMS: $10 / $7 / $3

For softball:

Fresno: $15 / $8 / $5
Nevada: $7 / $7 / $4
Sac St: $5 / $5 / $3
Hawai'i: $8 / $5 / $3
UNMS: $10 / $7 / $3

No clue why Fresno charges so much more...

Also it looks like most teams play roughly a 30 game schedule, regular season & tournament. So say each team averages 15 home games.

Did you get this from the WAC site or from each individual school site? Don't know who "UNMS" is. Don't know of a "University of New Mexico at Some Town Starting with S." I think you might be looking for NMSU. Could be?

Also, while Sac is in the WAC for baseball and gymnastics, it is NOT for softball. Sac is a proud member of the Pacific Coast Softball Conference.

Yeah I meant New Mexico State, I was just typing fast.

I got the schedules from the WAC conference website and then went to each schools direct ticket sales sites for the ticket prices.
 
New outdoor practice field:

UK: $2,100,000 (with sprinturf)

http://www.ukathletics.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=39&url_article_id=15980&url_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2

Brown: $2,700,000

http://brownbears.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/060607aaa.html

Outdoor fieldturf recent bid: $2,400,000

http://www.fieldturf.com/news.cfm?newsID=1634

Average $2,400,000
 
(I'm rounding up a little on these)

Colorado recruting budget: $555,000

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2008/feb/06/increased-recruiting-budget-seems-to-pay-for-cu/

Washington recruiting budget: $280,000

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/huskies/163358_husk05.html

Marshall recruiting budget: $140,000

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/zillgitt/2004-02-18-zillgitt_x.htm

That averages to $320,000
 
Grizbacker1 said:
ronbo said:
Grizbacker1 said:
ronbo said:
The thing about baseball and softball is they are income producing sports. A WAC baseall team could average 2500-3000 attendance. A good womens softball team could also though it might be closer to 1500-2000. These sports would help pay for themselves.

Income producing? In the sense people buy tickets perhaps, but I doubt they are net gains when you factor in all the costs associated. Look at where they would have to travel. What is the cost to use Osprey Field, assuming they woul deven consider it.

No they wouldn't 100% support themselves. Like Basketball doesn't. But they would garner enough interest to come in third behind Football and Basketball. The fact that they could pay 60-65% of their expenses makes baseball and softball very attractive compared to sports like golf, tennis, and others that bring in zip revenue.

Good points, but consider this. Golf and Tennis offset expense a ton because they have short seasons, and reduced schedules when compared to baseball and softball, so it may not be near the difference you think. There are less uniforms, only 1 coach, less travel, etc. Just a little food for thought. There are a myriad of things to consider for sure.


Here is Nevada's expenses to mull over from Equity in Athletics.

Baseball $249,100
All Track Combined $142,990
Golf $119,642
Skiing $91,014
Soccer $75,842
Softball $174,648
Swimming and Diving $108,428
Tennis $57,942
 
Wonder how much TV money the WAC schools will get for Fresno's run to the Baseball National Championship?
 
ronbo said:
Grizbacker1 said:
ronbo said:
Grizbacker1 said:
Income producing? In the sense people buy tickets perhaps, but I doubt they are net gains when you factor in all the costs associated. Look at where they would have to travel. What is the cost to use Osprey Field, assuming they woul deven consider it.

No they wouldn't 100% support themselves. Like Basketball doesn't. But they would garner enough interest to come in third behind Football and Basketball. The fact that they could pay 60-65% of their expenses makes baseball and softball very attractive compared to sports like golf, tennis, and others that bring in zip revenue.

Good points, but consider this. Golf and Tennis offset expense a ton because they have short seasons, and reduced schedules when compared to baseball and softball, so it may not be near the difference you think. There are less uniforms, only 1 coach, less travel, etc. Just a little food for thought. There are a myriad of things to consider for sure.


Here is Nevada's expenses to mull over from Equity in Athletics.

Baseball $249,100
All Track Combined $142,990
Golf $119,642
Skiing $91,014
Soccer $75,842
Softball $174,648
Swimming and Diving $108,428
Tennis $57,942

Forgot to add women's tennis to the men's. The total above is just men's tennis.
The total for tennis is $124,482 .
 
ronbo said:
Wonder how much TV money the WAC schools will get for Fresno's run to the Baseball National Championship?

Not sure, but check this out, so I google search "WAC television revenues" and the first option is an egriz page! Posted by PlayerRep:

Here's some information on WAC, team and other conference payouts from the bowl games the past two years.

Hawaii and Boise St. received $4.4 and $4.3 million, respectively, for their bowl appearances.

Hawaii expects to net only $2.2 million after bowl related expenses.

The 8 other WAC members will receive $410,555 each in 2008.

"The non-guaranteed leagues (Conference USA, WAC, Mountain West, Sun Belt, Mid-American) receive 9% of the projected BCS net revenue, or about $9 million on an annual basis, according to the BCS. That increases by another 9% when a team from one of those leagues is in a BCS game."

This means that the 5 non-BCS conferences receive, and split, 9% of BCS net revenue, or $9 million, in a normal year, but they receive double that amount in a year that a team goes to a BCS bowl.

That's payouts from bowl games, so you could put that in as expected revenue - $410,000
 
ronbo said:
Grizbacker1 said:
ronbo said:
Grizbacker1 said:
Income producing? In the sense people buy tickets perhaps, but I doubt they are net gains when you factor in all the costs associated. Look at where they would have to travel. What is the cost to use Osprey Field, assuming they woul deven consider it.

No they wouldn't 100% support themselves. Like Basketball doesn't. But they would garner enough interest to come in third behind Football and Basketball. The fact that they could pay 60-65% of their expenses makes baseball and softball very attractive compared to sports like golf, tennis, and others that bring in zip revenue.

Good points, but consider this. Golf and Tennis offset expense a ton because they have short seasons, and reduced schedules when compared to baseball and softball, so it may not be near the difference you think. There are less uniforms, only 1 coach, less travel, etc. Just a little food for thought. There are a myriad of things to consider for sure.


Here is Nevada's expenses to mull over from Equity in Athletics.

Baseball $249,100
All Track Combined $142,990
Golf $119,642
Skiing $91,014
Soccer $75,842
Softball $174,648
Swimming and Diving $108,428
Tennis $57,942

Sorry ronbo, but those numbers don't add up. Got a link?
 
Okay, we have most of the big numbers in. We don't have a few minor amounts in some categories, but we can probably make some observations based on what we have.

Caveat: We have used numbers from other institutions, trying to throw out the ones that were obviously far above us, like Michigan, for determining averages. The bottom line numbers don't include some line items, like increased maintenance, for which I had no way of making calculations, so expense increases would be slightly higher than what we've come up with, but it also doesn't include some income items that may be higher, like baseball TV revenues for a conference team going to the national championship. These items are also hard to gauge. I'm going to call them a wash. They're not major amounts in the grand scheme of things anyway.

These amounts do not take inflation into consideration, for the most part. By the time UM could realistically make the jump, in 2011 (2012?), almost all amounts would almost certainly be increased, most notably anything related to travel.

Also, you don't have to tell me that these are wild-assed guesses. I know.

Best Case Scenario: UM has to come up with $621,750 immediately, but has yearly bottom-line increases of $881,055. This scenario depends on making minimal, if any, improvements to facilities, with stadiums remaining at full capacity, and Idaho-like expenses otherwise. In other words, Idaho levels of commitment, with current Montana attendance.

Worst Case Scenario: UM has to come up with $694,688 immediately, and has yearly bottom-line losses of $10,269,771. This is the "Boise State" expenditure model, with improved facilities all around, but also with only a small rise in attendance, due to losses. If the attendance holds for all sports, reduce the yearly losses by just over $1,000,000; if UM can make this jump without any capital improvements, reduce the expenditures by $3,447,500.

Conclusion: Expecting "Boise State"-level performance and attendance using an Idaho expense model probably doesn't make sense. For UM to keep up with BSU (the biggest "I-AA to I-A" move-up success story, especially in the West, and probably a conference rival), the university would need to bump the annual spending up to near-BSU levels: $5.8M to begin with, then $9.2M-$10M shortly thereafter to continue to add the facilities that would help attract the higher-level of athlete needed on an ongoing basis.

Whether the Board of Regents would go for spending of this magnitude is anyone's guess, but based on their tight-fisted ways with the current stadium expansion, I'd have to say that it's extremely doubtful.

Please feel free to check the spreadsheet at: Montana FBS Move Spreadsheet

Let me know if you think any amounts need to be changed, or to help fill in the blanks. I am certainly not claiming omniscience here.

Thanks to all for your help. ReMax came up with most of the capital improvement costs. Thanks, ReMax!

I'll leave all of you to argue over where the annual $5.8M-$10M will come from.
 
Looking into TV contracts/revenues:

8:55 p.m. -- Interesting nugget from WAC commissioner Karl Benson's 30-minute press conference Thursday: Benson said the league is considering lowering its football inconvenience fee.

Last year, the WAC received $900,000 from its television contract with ESPN. From that money, the league paid a $100,000 inconvenience fee to any team that hosted a non-Saturday television game. There were nine such games and six teams hosted.

So the entire rights fee was eaten up by the inconvenience fee and three schools — Louisiana Tech, Idaho and Utah State — did not get any money from the ESPN deal.

The league is considering lowering the fee to $50,000 or $75,000 this year to make sure every team gets a portion of the rights fee.

There are six non-Saturday televised games scheduled for 2008. So far. Boise State hosts three of them, San Jose State hosts two and Fresno State hosts one.

I found this site: http://www.boardofed.idaho.gov/meetings/2000/aug00/b_ath_4-6.pdf

It listed Boise State's revenues but in 2000 at $171,000

From doing searches the TV contracts the WAC has had really hasn't changed much, it's been roughly $1,000,000 per year, for years.
 
I'll leave all of you to argue over where the annual $5.8M-$10M will come from.

- Raise ticket prices. (that wouldn't be super popular, but probably would have to be done).

- Increase corporate sponsorships, marketing events. (Might be easier to do that expected with more teams/players/events).

- TV/Conference/Bowl revenues. (a lot of that will hinge on success).

- Larger stadiums + continued success = more ticket sales/fans/merchandise (best-case scenario, what if the teams cannot preform and lose fan base?)

*** However - I don't think any of those will make up enough $$ each year and some are based on success and you should build a solid budget on what might possibly happen, but what will happen for sure, the unknows that came in should be treated as bonuses. ***
 
Grizbacker1 said:
ronbo said:
Grizbacker1 said:
ronbo said:
No they wouldn't 100% support themselves. Like Basketball doesn't. But they would garner enough interest to come in third behind Football and Basketball. The fact that they could pay 60-65% of their expenses makes baseball and softball very attractive compared to sports like golf, tennis, and others that bring in zip revenue.

Good points, but consider this. Golf and Tennis offset expense a ton because they have short seasons, and reduced schedules when compared to baseball and softball, so it may not be near the difference you think. There are less uniforms, only 1 coach, less travel, etc. Just a little food for thought. There are a myriad of things to consider for sure.


Here is Nevada's expenses to mull over from Equity in Athletics.

Baseball $249,100
All Track Combined $142,990
Golf $119,642
Skiing $91,014
Soccer $75,842
Softball $174,648
Swimming and Diving $108,428
Tennis $57,942

Sorry ronbo, but those numbers don't add up. Got a link?

Yes I do.
You need to click on the state of Nevada. Then you click on Neveda Reno, then click on revenue and expenses.ope.ed.gov/athletics/search.asp
 

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