Message to all Griz donors withholding their donations

[Flathead Griz]

One quote comes to mind:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." by Edmund Burke

If it was just O'Day or Pflugrad, that might be understandable. With both firing, there needs to be an explanation.

Growler1's blind allegiance to Engstrom can only be compared to the blind allegiance of the German people as the Jews were shipped to the death camps. No explanation is needed because those in charge know best.

If withholding donations gets an explanation, then so be it.

 

[ilovethecats]

Growler1's blind allegiance to Engstrom can only be compared to the blind allegiance of the German people as the Jews were shipped to the death camps. No explanation is needed because those in charge know best.

:shock:

guess it was only a matter of time before someone compared engstrom to hitler. pretty much the same thing though. firing a football coach.....exterminating millions of people.....

good analogies here this week. :thumb:

 

[OptimusPrime]

Well that's how it works everywhere else. I don't know what world you live in or what college football programs you follow but this is unprecedented. Could you imagine if an SEC school or PAC 12 school fired their Coach and gave no reasons and didnt even have a press conference? I can't

Really? Joe Paterno got fired and Sandusky still hasn't been found guilty. Not so unprecedented.

Don't you think it might be possible that the landscape (and apetite for bad press) has changed just SLIGHTLY in the collegiate sports world in the past 12 months?

Wrong again (unbelievable). Penn State had a press conference the night they fired Joe Paterno and they gave reasons for his firing and even fielded questions that night and in the days following. Engstrom has given no reasons and even told the players on the team that their firings did NOT have to do with the sexual assault investigation. Not even close to the same situation. I'm still waiting for that one example when no press conference was held and no reasons were given. Keep trying.

How about to increase donations, we have an egriz arm wrestling contest. Egrizzers show up, pay $10 per contest, and all the money goes to the kids. Just think the millions that could be made, mind bottling....

 

[br fan]

I'm no attorney, but I'm pretty sure you can't defame somebody with silence.

The manner in which Pflu was terminated is likely to impact his ability to get a job. Employers will wonder why he got fired. There will be suspicion that there are unknown things lurking.

I'm thinking you are probably correct that there isn't a concept of defamation by silence, but I don't know.

The better argument would be that the termination was wrongful and has caused damages. It was wrongful because there were no valid reasons for the termination and no valid reasons were given, and it was caused widespread suspicion that Pflu did something horribly wrong or that there is bad information that may come out in the future. Note that Pflu and O'Day weren't given any reasons, other than change of leadership, either. So, Pflu isn't able to tell a prospective employer the real reasons, nor is able to have the prospective employer contact the university for an explanation.

The problem (or challenge) with that argument is that you'd have to establish that Pflu was terminated. The University's position will be that his contract simply wasn't renewed, with no material comment as to why. This is an argument that could find it's way to court, but I doubt it will. Pflu's immediate post non-renewal interview was all about establishing he had three years left on his contract. I suspect his counsel is more interested in arguing about how much time was left on the contract, rather than wrongful termination.

Curious to see what UM's position will be if Pflu gets offered a job. If his contract was merely not renewed, UM should be arguing Pflu can't take a job with anyone else during the term of his contract.

 

[PlayerRep]

I'm no attorney, but I'm pretty sure you can't defame somebody with silence.

The manner in which Pflu was terminated is likely to impact his ability to get a job. Employers will wonder why he got fired. There will be suspicion that there are unknown things lurking.

I'm thinking you are probably correct that there isn't a concept of defamation by silence, but I don't know.

The better argument would be that the termination was wrongful and has caused damages. It was wrongful because there were no valid reasons for the termination and no valid reasons were given, and it was caused widespread suspicion that Pflu did something horribly wrong or that there is bad information that may come out in the future. Note that Pflu and O'Day weren't given any reasons, other than change of leadership, either. So, Pflu isn't able to tell a prospective employer the real reasons, nor is able to have the prospective employer contact the university for an explanation.

The problem (or challenge) with that argument is that you'd have to establish that Pflu was terminated. The University's position will be that his contract simply wasn't renewed, with no material comment as to why. This is an argument that could find it's way to court, but I doubt it will. Pflu's immediate post non-renewal interview was all about establishing he had three years left on his contract. I suspect his counsel is more interested in arguing about how much time was left on the contract, rather than wrongful termination.

Curious to see what UM's position will be if Pflu gets offered a job. If his contract was merely not renewed, UM should be arguing Pflu can't take a job with anyone else during the term of his contract.

Good point. It would be interesting to see what the termination letter said. I assume there has to be one.

If still employees, will employment taxes be deducted from paychecks, with the university having to pay its share of FICA? If UM won the conference, won the national championship, or some or all of the other bonus items are achieved, I assume UM would then have to pay Pflu some good bonus money. Do coaches get retirement contributions when employed by the university? If so, I assume the university will have to keep making these contributions.

What do the university system employee policies say? If there authority for relieving a coach/AD from his duties? if so, what is procedure? Notice? Reasons? Process for reinstatement?

 

[AZGrizFan]

Well that's how it works everywhere else. I don't know what world you live in or what college football programs you follow but this is unprecedented. Could you imagine if an SEC school or PAC 12 school fired their Coach and gave no reasons and didnt even have a press conference? I can't

Really? Joe Paterno got fired and Sandusky still hasn't been found guilty. Not so unprecedented.

Don't you think it might be possible that the landscape (and apetite for bad press) has changed just SLIGHTLY in the collegiate sports world in the past 12 months?

Wrong again (unbelievable). Penn State had a press conference the night they fired Joe Paterno and they gave reasons for his firing and even fielded questions that night and in the days following. Engstrom has given no reasons and even told the players on the team that their firings did NOT have to do with the sexual assault investigation. Not even close to the same situation. I'm still waiting for that one example when no press conference was held and no reasons were given. Keep trying.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry. I thought you were applying the "unprecedented" comment to them being fired, not the lack of a press conference.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I'm no attorney, but I'm pretty sure you can't defame somebody with silence.

The manner in which Pflu was terminated is likely to impact his ability to get a job. Employers will wonder why he got fired. There will be suspicion that there are unknown things lurking.

I'm thinking you are probably correct that there isn't a concept of defamation by silence, but I don't know.

The better argument would be that the termination was wrongful and has caused damages. It was wrongful because there were no valid reasons for the termination and no valid reasons were given, and it was caused widespread suspicion that Pflu did something horribly wrong or that there is bad information that may come out in the future. Note that Pflu and O'Day weren't given any reasons, other than change of leadership, either. So, Pflu isn't able to tell a prospective employer the real reasons, nor is able to have the prospective employer contact the university for an explanation.

\
Pflu's ability to get a job will be more impacted by his track record of not showing leadership to HC a program, he is a career assistant for a reason

Getting a job as an asst will also be impacted, and probably already has been.

People in thier profession have a tendency to have very short memories. It absolutely amazes me some of the total losers who end up getting recycled. Pflu (and O'Day) are not losers....hopefully they've learned from how they (mis)handled the situation over the past few years and they'll land on their feet somewhere else. I'm guessing their golden parachutes from the university will help ease the pain as they seek employment elsewhere.

In nine months (if not prohibited because of contractual terms) I fully expect both will be employed somewhere else. There might not be a bigger "good ol' boy network" in the entire world than the coaching ranks. I don't fear they'll be using food stamps any time soon.

 

[WaGriz4life]

Well that's how it works everywhere else. I don't know what world you live in or what college football programs you follow but this is unprecedented. Could you imagine if an SEC school or PAC 12 school fired their Coach and gave no reasons and didnt even have a press conference? I can't

Really? Joe Paterno got fired and Sandusky still hasn't been found guilty. Not so unprecedented.

Don't you think it might be possible that the landscape (and apetite for bad press) has changed just SLIGHTLY in the collegiate sports world in the past 12 months?

Wrong again (unbelievable). Penn State had a press conference the night they fired Joe Paterno and they gave reasons for his firing and even fielded questions that night and in the days following. Engstrom has given no reasons and even told the players on the team that their firings did NOT have to do with the sexual assault investigation. Not even close to the same situation. I'm still waiting for that one example when no press conference was held and no reasons were given. Keep trying.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry. I thought you were applying the "unprecedented" comment to them being fired, not the lack of a press conference.

My point is the way these terminations were handled is not normal in the least. Some if you are acting like Engstrom keeping his mouth shut is business as usual and this is how it works everywhere. This isn't how it works anywhere.

 

[Silvertip]

I'm predicting that personal and corporate giving to fund Griz athletics will take a BIG hit :!: Considering that the financial implications of Engstrom's firing actions now look to be far greater than the $147K figure thrown around originally, do you not believe that every savy prospective donor will not be concerned that his gift might be used to pay off the mounting costs of the poorly handled firings/terminations/ contract non-renewals or whatever the hell else you want to call it :?:

This escalating mess can be laid at Engstrom's doorstep and his failure to understand the implications of his poorly framed actions could see UM facing a bill that could run upwards of half a million dollars in legal fees, added salaries, yet-unpaid bonuses and incentives and benefits. The BOR, which was blindly complicit in the matter, should arrange for the president to pay for his ineptitude through an installment payback program. And if he were somehow fortunated to hang on for 20 years like Dennison it might be a substantial amount.

 

[PlayerRep]

Someone told me recently that a senior university official had told him, within a week of the firings, that the lost contribution figure was over one million dollars and climbing. Don't know if that's true.

 

[Growler1]

Someone told me recently that a senior university official had told him, within a week of the firings, that the lost contribution figure was over one million dollars and climbing. Don't know if that's true.

And worth every penny of it to remove the multiple cancers, including you, from the football program. By the way Delaney wants no part of your sorry *ss around his players or coaches.

 

[Spanky]

There is another issue I would appreciate hearing the views of some of you about. A few months ago, it was discussed that the amounts contributed by some donors were being openly discussed with others and not kept confidential. I was told at the time that it wasn't true. I'm currently a donor at another university, but am an alum of UM and eventually will start giving, but not if my contributions are not held in confidence.

 

[Spanky]

Growler....thats a bit over the top....

 

[AZGrizFan]

When this team is 9-1 going into the 'Scat game, these fence sitters will be shitting all over themselves to get back in the good graces of the university. :thumb:

 

[PlayerRep]

Someone told me recently that a senior university official had told him, within a week of the firings, that the lost contribution figure was over one million dollars and climbing. Don't know if that's true.

And worth every penny of it to remove the multiple cancers, including you, from the football program. By the way Delaney wants no part of your sorry *ss around his players or coaches.

Ha-ha. I actually know Mick better than Pflu. Plan to see him tomorrow. Saw him on Saturday.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

People should make donations or not. It's up to them. But publicly holding out until the University does what you want the University to do? That's just plain tacky.

 

[Silvertip]

When I arranged for a modest scholarship at UM I specified that it was to provide assistance to an undergrad in the College of Arts and Sciences - and not for anything else. I would hope that however many donors to Griz athletics still remain that they specify that their gift is to be used only for the legitimate needs of the department and not for paying off terminated employees. Let Engstrom and the BOR figure out where that money will come from... ultimately, the MT taxpayers no doubt. :roll:

 

[hawaiiangriz]

So what happens if some stupid sh@#t happens while Delaney is the coach? Will Growler and AZ then be asking for his head as well? Just curious.

And hey 2506, Pflugrad is 10X the head coach any of us could hope to be. You should try it some time and see how you do OK? Oh wait, you need to be hired as a head coach FIRST. How can you honestly say Pflugrad is not HC material? God, I can't wait until the glass house most cat fans live in crashes - oh wait, did that already happen? Don't recall our basketball team getting in a brawl with out football team. Now you can bring up everything the Griz have done and compare.....

 

[mtgrizrule]

So what happens if some stupid sh@#t happens while Delaney is the coach? Will Growler and AZ then be asking for his head as well? Just curious.

And hey 2506, Pflugrad is 10X the head coach any of us could hope to be. You should try it some time and see how you do OK? Oh wait, you need to be hired as a head coach FIRST. How can you honestly say Pflugrad is not HC material? God, I can't wait until the glass house most cat fans live in crashes - oh wait, did that already happen? Don't recall our basketball team getting in a brawl with out football team. Now you can bring up everything the Griz have done and compare.....

Why did you go there with Cat fans? Cat fans, please refrain from turning another thread into a pissing match. We shall see.

 

[Growler1]

So what happens if some stupid sh@#t happens while Delaney is the coach? Will Growler and AZ then be asking for his head as well? Just curious.

And hey 2506, Pflugrad is 10X the head coach any of us could hope to be. You should try it some time and see how you do OK? Oh wait, you need to be hired as a head coach FIRST. How can you honestly say Pflugrad is not HC material? God, I can't wait until the glass house most cat fans live in crashes - oh wait, did that already happen? Don't recall our basketball team getting in a brawl with out football team. Now you can bring up everything the Griz have done and compare.....

I would want any coach who sweeps criminal acts under the rug just so he can win games be fired. I hope that clarifies it for you.

Now take your $100 donation a go home whining about the world not being fair.